Back to UK for vaccine?

[mt9754]

It certainly crossed my mind, although feels like it’s probably not practical.  Has anyone else had these thoughts?

Really missing family in the UK, 2 Christmases away in a row is going to be pretty tough.

But i guess practically, spending 12 weeks in the UK will make the tax messy and i’m probably still going to have to fly business to get back, unfairly stealing a seat from someone who might need it more, plus pay for hotel quarantine again.

[Tulip1]

38 minutes ago, mt9754 said:

It certainly crossed my mind, although feels like it’s probably not practical.  Has anyone else had these thoughts?

Really missing family in the UK, 2 Christmases away in a row is going to be pretty tough.

But i guess practically, spending 12 weeks in the UK will make the tax messy and i’m probably still going to have to fly business to get back, unfairly stealing a seat from someone who might need it more, plus pay for hotel quarantine again.

I don’t think popping back for a vaccine would come under ‘exceptional circumstances’ 

[Jon the Hat]

Your risk of catching COVID in Australia is so vanishingly small it wouldn't be even close to worth it.

[mt9754]

I think hotel quarantine has done well but we’re always on the cusp of losing control of the virus.  Pretty frustrated by the lack of urgency from Australian gvt too.  I’d be all over Astra if they offered it to me.

[Parley]

27 minutes ago, mt9754 said:

I think hotel quarantine has done well but we’re always on the cusp of losing control of the virus.  Pretty frustrated by the lack of urgency from Australian gvt too.  I’d be all over Astra if they offered it to me.

A Canadian woman in her 50s has died after receiving the AstraZeneca vaccine and developing a blood clot in her brain.

I'm waiting for Pfizer myself. What is the hurry ? We have no covid in the community. I doubt we will have major outbreaks again. The odd small manageable situation like in WA will happen from time to time.

[mt9754]

23 minutes ago, Parley said:

A Canadian woman in her 50s has died after receiving the AstraZeneca vaccine and developing a blood clot in her brain.

I'm waiting for Pfizer myself. What is the hurry ? We have no covid in the community. I doubt we will have major outbreaks again. The odd small manageable situation like in WA will happen from time to time.

I am keen to travel back to the UK as soon as I can. I’m also not sure how long hotel quarantine will keep working.

Just to put the blood clots into perspective, you’re 400 times more likely to get a blood clot from the pill than Astra.

Edited April 27, 2021 by mt9754

[Marisawright]

5 minutes ago, Parley said:

A Canadian woman in her 50s has died after receiving the AstraZeneca vaccine and developing a blood clot in her brain.

I'm waiting for Pfizer myself. What is the hurry ? We have no covid in the community. I doubt we will have major outbreaks again. The odd small manageable situation like in WA will happen from time to time.

We have no covid because the borders are closed.  They will start reopening at some point.  Look at Victoria, talking about starting to accept students and key workers again soon.  Then there will be more breakouts from quarantine and remember, Melbourne's big outbreak started with ONE family.    

If there was another "escape" in Melbourne today, where few people are wearing masks or bothering to socially distance, it would spread like wildfire.  Then all those people who waited for Pfizer thinking "there's no rush", will be swamping the vaccination centres and struggling to get an appointment.  And remember, you need two doses 90 days apart.

[Blue Flu]

16 minutes ago, mt9754 said:

I am keen to travel home as soon as I can. I’m also not sure how long hotel quarantine will keep working.

Just to put the blood clots into perspective, you’re 400 times more likely to get a blood clot from the pill than Astra.

I think most are aware of the statistics. While quite correct in pointing out the greater likelihood of blood clots through taking the pill, the difference being there are other forms of contraception available. Hence there is a choice. This is/was not the case with the AZ vaccine . Besides that there was  not an urgency to take something , where waiting a little, would avail an alternative vaccine. 

 

[mt9754]

3 minutes ago, Blue Flu said:

I think most are aware of the statistics. While quite correct in pointing out the greater likelihood of blood clots through taking the pill, the difference being there are other forms of contraception available. Hence there is a choice. This is/was not the case with the AZ vaccine . Besides that there was  not an urgency to take something , where waiting a little, would avail an alternative vaccine. 

 

That’s fair, I think my point is i’m not sure we have the luxury of waiting until Q4, I worry the gvt. might regret that decision.

For me it’s weighing up a 20% (?) chance of a widespread outbreak killing 20,000 people vs 25 deaths from bloodclots.

[Parley]

11 minutes ago, mt9754 said:

That’s fair, I think my point is i’m not sure we have the luxury of waiting until Q4, I worry the gvt. might regret that decision.

For me it’s weighing up a 20% (?) chance of a widespread outbreak killing 20,000 people vs 25 deaths from bloodclots.

There is not going to be 20000 deaths. We have been all through Covid for over 12 months with less than 1000 deaths. 

We have also learned from our mistakes which is a good thing.

The borders won't open much until next year at the earliest anyway. I don't see them letting students in on a large scale this year. They will wait until the vaccination program is complete and other countries like India need to sort out their issues too.

[mt9754]

10 minutes ago, Parley said:

There is not going to be 20000 deaths. We have been all through Covid for over 12 months with less than 1000 deaths. 

We have also learned from our mistakes which is a good thing.

The borders won't open much until next year at the earliest anyway. I don't see them letting students in on a large scale this year. They will wait until the vaccination program is complete and other countries like India need to sort out their issues too.

I think this is where we disagree, I know so many close friends who have had Covid deaths in the family from the UK, I worry about what would happen if the UK variant got some traction out here.

[Blue Flu]

16 minutes ago, mt9754 said:

That’s fair, I think my point is i’m not sure we have the luxury of waiting until Q4, I worry the gvt. might regret that decision.

For me it’s weighing up a 20% (?) chance of a widespread outbreak killing 20,000 people vs 25 deaths from bloodclots.

I certainly feel your concern. But on a personal level I would not get the AZ vaccination as things stand. I fully understand that a changing situation may remove my distaste in getting  this vaccine and hence invalidate choice. But I do feel we, at least in Australia, are far removed from that scenario at the present time. 

 

[Parley]

2 minutes ago, mt9754 said:

I think this is where we disagree, I know so many close friends who have had Covid deaths in the family from the UK, I worry about what would happen if the UK variant got some traction out here.

I'm more worried about the South African variant which AZ does not protect against.

 

[Blue Flu]

3 minutes ago, mt9754 said:

I think this is where we disagree, I know so many close friends who have had Covid deaths in the family from the UK, I worry about what would happen if the UK variant got some traction out here.

But it should be remembered that the track record between the two countries is very different. Boris Johnson was slow to react to initial infection and it got a foot hold in the nation. He initially took on a Trump like reaction placing the economy above national health well being. 

[newjez]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

We have no covid because the borders are closed.  They will start reopening at some point.  Look at Victoria, talking about starting to accept students and key workers again soon.  Then there will be more breakouts from quarantine and remember, Melbourne's big outbreak started with ONE family.    

If there was another "escape" in Melbourne today, where few people are wearing masks or bothering to socially distance, it would spread like wildfire.  Then all those people who waited for Pfizer thinking "there's no rush", will be swamping the vaccination centres and struggling to get an appointment.  And remember, you need two doses 90 days apart.

It's a bit like those anti vax MMR mum's, who are the first to queue outside their doctors surgery when there is a measles outbreak.

Personally, having seen what this virus can do to fit 50 year olds, if I was over fifty I would get a jab. Any jab.

Under fifty in Australia, I might take my chances. But I would be careful.

Edited April 28, 2021 by newjez

[newjez]

9 minutes ago, Parley said:

I'm more worried about the South African variant which AZ does not protect against.

 

I would be worried about the Indian variant.

[mt9754]

Fingers crossed we can hold it at bay.  In the meantime I think i will move my flights back to december on the off chance they start vaccinating under 40s by November.

[MacGyver]

1 minute ago, mt9754 said:

Fingers crossed we can hold it at bay.  In the meantime I think i will move my flights back to december on the off chance they start vaccinating under 40s by November.

I think the Pfizer deliveries are expected to increase slowly through until the last quarter of the year, at which point there will be a significant increase of delivery (if it goes to plan) and a ramping up of vaccination hubs. All Australians will supposedly have been offered a first shot by end of year (give or take).

Given the bulk of Pfizer won’t arrive until October ish, if I was in your shoes I might be tempted to move flights to March/April 2022 rather than late 2021, to give time for borders to possibly start opening with vaccinated countries (UK/US etc). It’s still all a bit uncertain but I’d be very surprised if much had changed by December.

[HappyHeart]

5 hours ago, mt9754 said:

Fingers crossed we can hold it at bay.  In the meantime I think i will move my flights back to december on the off chance they start vaccinating under 40s by November.

You can't just 'choose' to go back, can you? 

I thought you had to provide evidence of need to travel..exceptional circumstances etc 

[Wanderer Returns]

6 hours ago, mt9754 said:

I am keen to travel back to the UK as soon as I can. I’m also not sure how long hotel quarantine will keep working.

Just to put the blood clots into perspective, you’re 400 times more likely to get a blood clot from the pill than Astra.

You are not alone and I sympathize with those missing family, but at the moment overseas travel (except NZ) is not permitted, so please accept that. Most of us would like to travel overseas at some point in the not-too-distant future, but at the moment it would put an unnecessary burden on the system when you wanted to return to Australia. Thank you in advance for doing the right thing and not trying to cheat the system, like some people have been doing.

[mt9754]

Just now, HappyHeart said:

You can't just 'choose' to go back, can you? 

I thought you had to provide evidence of need to travel..exceptional circumstances etc 

You have to meet the criteria, as i’ve not been in Australia long and most of my ties are still with the UK and I currently meet the criteria.

For me, leaving is fine but wouldn’t feel right to return (morally) until they open up international travel a bit more and the caps are gone.  Otherwise I’d feel i’d be travelling against the spirit of the rules (but not the letter).

[Wanderer Returns]

5 minutes ago, HappyHeart said:

You can't just 'choose' to go back, can you? 

I thought you had to provide evidence of need to travel.. exceptional circumstances etc 

You do, but unfortunately some people are fabricating evidence so they can claim 'exceptional circumstances'. I saw a group on Facebook dedicated it 

[Wanderer Returns]

3 minutes ago, mt9754 said:

You have to meet the criteria, as i’ve not been in Australia long and most of my ties are still with the UK and I currently meet the criteria.

For me, leaving is fine but wouldn’t feel right to return (morally) until they open up international travel a bit more and the caps are gone.  Otherwise I’d feel i’d be travelling against the spirit of the rules (but not the letter).

Fair enough if you don't want to come back until it's all over, and you meet the criteria to leave. However, unless they've changed the rules there's a blanket travel ban on Australian citizens and those with PR.

[MacGyver]

20 minutes ago, Wanderer Returns said:

You do, but unfortunately some people are fabricating evidence so they can claim 'exceptional circumstances'. I saw a group on Facebook dedicated it 

I do hope you reported it

[Ken]

6 hours ago, mt9754 said:

I think this is where we disagree, I know so many close friends who have had Covid deaths in the family from the UK, I worry about what would happen if the UK variant got some traction out here.

You are right, a more dangerous strain getting out before vaccination could cause 20,000 deaths in Australia - but dangerous strains are already on the loose in the UK and you want to go there unvaccinated! It's clearly a huge risk travelling to the UK unvaccinated where you know Covid is on the loose and spending a minimum of 4 weeks unprotected from it (depending on how quickly you can get your two shots and how long they then need to take effect). Waiting in Australia where (while there's always a risk of an outbreak) it's not currently on the loose is far safer.