Loopylu Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 (edited) Well it seems my reading of international law aligns with that of Geoffrey Robertson QC and the UN.... https://www.sbs.com.au/news/un-requests-australian-government-ensure-the-prompt-return-of-two-stranded-citizens Yet again, the Australian Government shows it is incapable of respecting human rights (previous form includes the illegal indefinite detention of genuine refugees, not providing free public education to all children living in Australia, taxing backpackers higher income tax than locals in breach of tax conventions.... shall I go on). Time now that Australia had a bill of rights or human rights act, in my view, like every other democracy worth its salt. I know that the right wing out there on this forum (of whom there are many) will argue that this is a mere request from the UN, but this is pending a decision which will take 8 months to be made as due process has to be followed to allow Australia to justify its stance. However, for one of the two test cases affected who has a relative dying of cancer, 8 months is too long to wait.... Edited April 16, 2021 by Loopylu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 It shows the relative ineffectiveness of the UN really, by the time anything comes of it, no one will be helped by it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loopylu Posted April 16, 2021 Author Share Posted April 16, 2021 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said: It shows the relative ineffectiveness of the UN really, by the time anything comes of it, no one will be helped by it. One can hope that this pronouncement shames the Government into behaving properly. I am registered with DFAT as I am technically an Australian who may get bumped off my flight in May due to the caps. In the last two days I have had 2 emails advising of 6 Qantas repatriation flights from London being laid on in May so perhaps this is a response to the UN request.... Edited April 16, 2021 by Loopylu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 The government has not said they can't return home. Why don't they sue the airline for refusing to fly them home ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanderer Returns Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 I believe that generally Australia has handled the pandemic very well, but as a nation we are now resting on our laurels. If people have been vaccinated, can provide a recent negative covid test, and are prepared to go through hotel quarantine at their own expense, why shouldn't we open our doors to them? There are many who would be happy to go through that process so that they could be reunited with loved ones, students who want to study in Australia, backpackers who are coming over for a year, just to mention a few. This would provide a massive boost to our beleaguered tourism and hospitality industries, and the economy in general. The measures introduced a year ago were necessary at the time, but were never meant to be a long-term solution. We need a more progressive policy now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 11 minutes ago, Wanderer Returns said: I believe that generally Australia has handled the pandemic very well, but as a nation we are now resting on our laurels. If people have been vaccinated, can provide a recent negative covid test, and are prepared to go through hotel quarantine at their own expense, why shouldn't we open our doors to them? There are many who would be happy to go through that process so that they could be reunited with loved ones, students who want to study in Australia, backpackers who are coming over for a year, just to mention a few. This would provide a massive boost to our beleaguered tourism and hospitality industries, and the economy in general. The measures introduced a year ago were necessary at the time, but were never meant to be a long-term solution. We need a more progressive policy now. We don't have unlimited Hotel Quarantine places unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanderer Returns Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 48 minutes ago, Parley said: The government has not said they can't return home. Why don't they sue the airline for refusing to fly them home ? I'm no legal eagle, but I'm fairly certain when you buy a ticket it doesn't guarantee you unconditional rights of passage, nor are the airline obliged to 'get you home'. It's always been dependent on whether they are able to provide the service, and if not, you are of course entitled to a refund. They are also legally-bound to ensure that passengers have the right to enter their destination country. In this case Australia has put limits on the number of people who can fly here, and given how few it is we're lucky that any airlines are flying here at all at the moment. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanderer Returns Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, Parley said: We don't have unlimited Hotel Quarantine places unfortunately. I think this would be a lot easier to organize than the government is making out. It's just a political excuse. Half the hotels in the country are empty at the moment! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 28 minutes ago, Wanderer Returns said: I think this would be a lot easier to organize than the government is making out. It's just a political excuse. Half the hotels in the country are empty at the moment! Yes but it’s the staffing, and having to upgrade the air con that are the limiting factors 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtritudr Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Wanderer Returns said: I believe that generally Australia has handled the pandemic very well, but as a nation we are now resting on our laurels. If people have been vaccinated, can provide a recent negative covid test, and are prepared to go through hotel quarantine at their own expense, why shouldn't we open our doors to them? There are many who would be happy to go through that process so that they could be reunited with loved ones, students who want to study in Australia, backpackers who are coming over for a year, just to mention a few. This would provide a massive boost to our beleaguered tourism and hospitality industries, and the economy in general. The measures introduced a year ago were necessary at the time, but were never meant to be a long-term solution. We need a more progressive policy now. Because hotel quarantine capacity is extremely limited. The alternative of home quarantine is a difficult sell with the public. Just look at Japan which has used home quarantine for its own citizens throughout the pandemic. Now they have multiple variants of concern circulating in the country, powering its fourth wave. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtritudr Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 50 minutes ago, Wanderer Returns said: I think this would be a lot easier to organize than the government is making out. It's just a political excuse. Half the hotels in the country are empty at the moment! It's easy to put people into hotels. It's not so easy to make sure that the virus doesn't leak out of those hotels. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacGyver Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 Australia has many questions to answer regarding human rights abuses, that is true. But it is also true that the UK has many questions to answer regarding human rights abuses (not least the treatment of disabled people in the UK, as identified by the UN). I also note the current UK governments desire to opt out of aspects of the ECHR in order to remove asylum seekers, refugees etc more forcefully. Would you agree that the UK should address the above issues, like any other democracy worth its salt? I don't disagree with some of the points you make and my political views make me a natural ally to your position, but the abrasive and combative way in which you make them is difficult to support. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 I'd prefer for the borders to stay pretty much as is, until such a time that opening them won't risk the health of the population already here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loopylu Posted April 17, 2021 Author Share Posted April 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Peach said: I'd prefer for the borders to stay pretty much as is, until such a time that opening them won't risk the health of the population already here. Yeah, just so long as you are alright. Stuff your fellow Aussies stuck overseas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loopylu Posted April 17, 2021 Author Share Posted April 17, 2021 6 hours ago, Parley said: The government has not said they can't return home. Why don't they sue the airline for refusing to fly them home ? The airlines are legally not permitted by THE GOVERNMENT to fly in more than those that meet the cap. Don't you read the news? Oh no, like most Aussies you don't bother with the news because it might make you unhappy. If it's not happening to you, who cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loopylu Posted April 17, 2021 Author Share Posted April 17, 2021 5 hours ago, Parley said: We don't have unlimited Hotel Quarantine places unfortunately. Piffle and excuses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loopylu Posted April 17, 2021 Author Share Posted April 17, 2021 5 hours ago, Wanderer Returns said: I think this would be a lot easier to organize than the government is making out. It's just a political excuse. Half the hotels in the country are empty at the moment! Exactly. Unfortunately, most commentators on this site just believe unquestioningly what the government feeds us through the Murdoch media and the compliant ABC who interestingly have not run with the UN story in their headlines. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Loopylu said: The airlines are legally not permitted by THE GOVERNMENT to fly in more than those that meet the cap. Don't you read the news? Oh no, like most Aussies you don't bother with the news because it might make you unhappy. If it's not happening to you, who cares. The point is our borders are now brining in international arrivals. It is on the news. Victoria opened up last week and flights have been arriving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-25/victorian-government-to-resume-international-flights-quarantine/100027186 People have taken up the opportuntiy to return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loopylu Posted April 17, 2021 Author Share Posted April 17, 2021 4 hours ago, MacGyver said: Australia has many questions to answer regarding human rights abuses, that is true. But it is also true that the UK has many questions to answer regarding human rights abuses (not least the treatment of disabled people in the UK, as identified by the UN). I also note the current UK governments desire to opt out of aspects of the ECHR in order to remove asylum seekers, refugees etc more forcefully. Would you agree that the UK should address the above issues, like any other democracy worth its salt? I don't disagree with some of the points you make and my political views make me a natural ally to your position, but the abrasive and combative way in which you make them is difficult to support. The difference is that the UK has a Human Rights Act and you can go to court to challenge human rights abuses and usually win. In Australia without any human rights legislation, all you have is the Australian Human Rights Commission who can tell the government that "it has been a very naughty boy" but cannot compel it to comply with its international human rights obligations. There has already been considerable uproar in the UK about the refugee proposals and at least the government is consulting on the measures and not arbitrarily imposing them. Sorry if I appear abrasive, but human rights is a fundamentally important issue and having provided pro bono advice to genuine refugees it is a matter close to my heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loopylu Posted April 17, 2021 Author Share Posted April 17, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Parley said: The point is our borders are now brining in international arrivals. It is on the news. Victoria opened up last week and flights have been arriving. As I pointed out in my response to JonTheHat, I registered with DFAT as a precaution and miraculously as the UN story broke, 6 repatriation flights have been announced.... I suggest that this would not have happened if yet again, Australia was getting bad INTERNATIONAL press in relation to human rights. It doesn't help recruiting more wage slaves to invest several thousands in visas to move there if the world media reports on how badly it treats its ordinary citizens... Edited April 17, 2021 by Loopylu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 19 minutes ago, Loopylu said: Yeah, just so long as you are alright. Stuff your fellow Aussies stuck overseas. and we open the boarders and tens of thousands die, that is just hard cheese for them? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 Just now, Peach said: and we open the boarders and tens of thousands die, that is just hard cheese for them? Our human rights don't count Peach apparently. The government correctly prioritised the Human Rights of everyone here to keep them protected from Covid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 UK 127,000 deaths vs Australia 910 deaths Sort of speaks for itself. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loopylu Posted April 17, 2021 Author Share Posted April 17, 2021 19 minutes ago, Peach said: and we open the boarders and tens of thousands die, that is just hard cheese for them? Did I say to open the borders (not spelling) to all-comers. My opening post is about AUSTRALIANS having their human right to return to their country of citizenship. The Government has ah a year to set up suitable quarantine facilities such as Darwin which, as far as I am aware, has not had any escape of Covid into the Community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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