Missing the UK

[HappyHeart]

11 hours ago, newjez said:

I remember my father took some friends to see tranby house in Perth 1839 I think it's the oldest house in Perth. The friends were polite to my mum and dad, but I asked them later on their own as they didn't seem Impressed, and they said their house in the UK was older than tranby, and there was a barn down the road from them that was 1000 years old.

There might be some historical spots here and there, like the battle of bunbury, where some white people decided to slaughter lots of aboriginal men, women and children, but by and large you don't go to Perth for the history.

There is a bit more history in the eastern states. But WA really isn't very old.

I don't look at it like that tbh. I'll give an example, a few weeks ago we were at Cape Leeuwin. (Most southwesterterly point in WA) Big old lighthouse there. Since our last visit they'd made one of the 3 old keepers cottages into an interpretive centre. We spent an hour or so exploring it. Absolutely fascinating. That's 100 years old. I don't link the value or interest level of history to how old it is. 

In Greenbushes WA there's a mining museum. They mine lithium now. That was an interesting one. Looks at the history of the timber industry in the South West. 

A lot of places have a 'historical walk or trail (our own suburb included, we even have a small museum which I love to spend time in.) Early settler towns like Bindoon, Gingin, Guildford etc. (Love the little museum there, the old gaol and settlers cottages) There's so much cultural stuff of interest if you want to look for it. Even in Perth! It's all relative. 

Beyond recent history we've of course the Indigenous history. So much history! Don't tell me Perth is boring! Oh my word. I need a cup of tea. 

Edited May 1, 2021 by HappyHeart

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, HappyHeart said:

. So much history! Don't tell me Perth is boring! Oh my word. I need a cup of tea. 

This is one of the biggest problems when discussing whether a place is interesting or not. Some people love history, but it leaves other people cold.   Paul loves his beach lifestyle but not everyone is outdoors-y.  And so on.  It's like saying, "Of course you could enjoy living in _________. All you have to do is force yourself to enjoy stuff you have always disliked."   

Edited May 1, 2021 by Marisawright

[HappyHeart]

28 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

This is one of the biggest problems when discussing whether a place is interesting or not. Some people love history, but it leaves other people cold.   Paul loves his beach lifestyle but not everyone is outdoors-y.  And so on.  It's like saying, "Of course you could enjoy living in _________. All you have to do is force yourself to enjoy stuff you have always disliked."   

Agree. I think there must be things to like and dislike about every place on earth though. A misconception is that you NEED to love beaches to like Perth as a place to live. The beaches are on the coast. There's thousands of Kms of habitable areas not close to the beach. 

I think part of the issue is a one eyed superficial approach to a place. Once you've decided for or against something you can talk yourself into anything. Whatever suits your subconscious agenda. I know because I'm like that. 

Edited May 1, 2021 by HappyHeart

[newjez]

6 hours ago, HappyHeart said:

I don't look at it like that tbh. I'll give an example, a few weeks ago we were at Cape Leeuwin. (Most southwesterterly point in WA) Big old lighthouse there. Since our last visit they'd made one of the 3 old keepers cottages into an interpretive centre. We spent an hour or so exploring it. Absolutely fascinating. That's 100 years old. I don't link the value or interest level of history to how old it is. 

In Greenbushes WA there's a mining museum. They mine lithium now. That was an interesting one. Looks at the history of the timber industry in the South West. 

A lot of places have a 'historical walk or trail (our own suburb included, we even have a small museum which I love to spend time in.) Early settler towns like Bindoon, Gingin, Guildford etc. (Love the little museum there, the old gaol and settlers cottages) There's so much cultural stuff of interest if you want to look for it. Even in Perth! It's all relative. 

Beyond recent history we've of course the Indigenous history. So much history! Don't tell me Perth is boring! Oh my word. I need a cup of tea. 

That's a fair point.

I guess something doesn't have to be really old to be interesting.

[Blue Flu]

6 hours ago, Marisawright said:

This is one of the biggest problems when discussing whether a place is interesting or not. Some people love history, but it leaves other people cold.   Paul loves his beach lifestyle but not everyone is outdoors-y.  And so on.  It's like saying, "Of course you could enjoy living in _________. All you have to do is force yourself to enjoy stuff you have always disliked."   

In my view what makes a place interesting are the people that inhabit it. Is Perth a city that caters for all sorts? Hardly. It tends to be somewhat parochial and too conservative for its own good. It doesn't make Perth a bad place, it is just defied differently. People who prefer, for example a city possessing something of a street culture, a place to find their niche if not conformist, will likely be at home elsewhere. Plenty of people we know or have met in the past , have experienced kids in early twenties , leaving for elsewhere. Even if only Melbourne. Some returned, others not. They certainly found more elsewhere. Hardly hard to understand Perth has limitations. That's  was why I left . If those things that niggle, no longer seem so important , or one can somehow navigate around such things, Perth can be a goer. The thing to realize is Perth has definite limitations. It is not an environment that all will prosper. There are serious social issues here as elsewhere. Drugs are a big, big problem. It is not being like anywhere near addressed to the degree that is deserved. 

If one is something of an 'introvert' I mean in the sense of preferring family around and rather house inclined then definitely a good chance of success. It can be quite lonely (hardly unique in that) it is somewhat shallow , with materialist values overly dominant. I don't think beach culture features largely all things considered. Most ball we know never venture to the beach. Saying that getting a parking space often, is near impossible. 

I'm outdoorsy but don't necessary find Perth super ideal for outdoor pursuits by any means. I have limited cycling after the third near miss being wiped out by a car. I do not find Perth a good walking city . I do  swim and enjoy aquatic activity. I find the night life sucks seriously. Not easy place to escape. I fully understand why others would seek  other alternatives elsewhere to what is on offer in Perth and WA. Nothing at all wrong with that. 

One thing I always wanted to ask you Marisawright. I seem to recall you moved to Southampton on return to UK? I'm just wondering of all possible places to pick why that city? Surely more friendlier options than there?

Edited May 1, 2021 by Blue Flu

[Marisawright]

35 minutes ago, Blue Flu said:

One thing I always wanted to ask you Marisawright. I seem to recall you moved to Southampton on return to UK? I'm just wondering of all possible places to pick why that city? Surely more friendlier options than there?

Actually we planned to move to Bournemouth but the housing market proved to be way beyond our reach.   Too many people renting out places as holiday lets rather than long-term rentals, plus lots of Londoners moving down (I could never understand that, it seemed like an impossible commute to me). 

We saw an ad for a new development in Southampton, we drove over and had a look and fell in love with it.  Knew nothing about the city and of course, you can't judge "friendliness" until you live there.  Basically we had a year living in the home of our dreams , just in totally the wrong location.   Full of chavs, horribly lonely.   I was willing to give the UK another chance if we moved to another city, but my oh was so fond of our home, he kept putting it off.  He didn't care if we had a mind-numbing day-to-day life, provided he got a  European holiday each year and a few trips to London.  Eventually I told him I was moving back to Australia with or without him.

I was really worried about returning to Oz because we came to Melbourne instead of returning to Sydney.  I worried that our lack of friends and mind-numbing life in Southampton was my own fault -- and I'd have exactly the same problem in Melbourne.   Not at all.  I have a great life in Melbourne, in fact to my great surprise, I think it suits me better than Sydney.

[Tulip1]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

Actually we planned to move to Bournemouth but the housing market proved to be way beyond our reach.   Too many people renting out places as holiday lets rather than long-term rentals, plus lots of Londoners moving down (I could never understand that, it seemed like an impossible commute to me). 

We saw an ad for a new development in Southampton, we drove over and had a look and fell in love with it.  Knew nothing about the city and of course, you can't judge "friendliness" until you live there.  Basically we had a year living in the home of our dreams , just in totally the wrong location.   Full of chavs, horribly lonely.   I was willing to give the UK another chance if we moved to another city, but my oh was so fond of our home, he kept putting it off.  He didn't care if we had a mind-numbing day-to-day life, provided he got a  European holiday each year and a few trips to London.  Eventually I told him I was moving back to Australia with or without him.

I was really worried about returning to Oz because we came to Melbourne instead of returning to Sydney.  I worried that our lack of friends and mind-numbing life in Southampton was my own fault -- and I'd have exactly the same problem in Melbourne.   Not at all.  I have a great life in Melbourne, in fact to my great surprise, I think it suits me better than Sydney.

My aunt and uncle used to live in Southampton. I agree with you, definitely not the best of places to live. 

[newjez]

3 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

My aunt and uncle used to live in Southampton. I agree with you, definitely not the best of places to live. 

When I worked at hursley I lived in Winchester and loved it, although it wasn't cheap. 

Many lived in Southampton because it was cheap. One guy had been in Southampton for a week and came in with a big black eye. Apparently he had been mugged after going to the pub.

A local told us a story of a mate moving a load of stuff into a new flat in Shirley. He went back for a second load and found he had been burgled in the meantime.

My son had an opportunity to attend the university there. It is quite a good uni, but I'm glad he chose not to.

It's a shame really as it's beautiful in parts. Lovely green parks, good walks. Good shopping centre. It's just a shame there are a few bad areas that let it down.

[Parley]

On 30/04/2021 at 23:37, newjez said:

I remember my father took some friends to see tranby house in Perth 1839 I think it's the oldest house in Perth. The friends were polite to my mum and dad, but I asked them later on their own as they didn't seem Impressed, and they said their house in the UK was older than tranby, and there was a barn down the road from them that was 1000 years old.

There might be some historical spots here and there, like the battle of bunbury, where some white people decided to slaughter lots of aboriginal men, women and children, but by and large you don't go to Perth for the history.

There is a bit more history in the eastern states. But WA really isn't very old.

I've got an axe  that is 80 years old.

It has only had 3 new heads and 4 new handles in all that time.

[Parley]

22 hours ago, HappyHeart said:

I don't look at it like that tbh. I'll give an example, a few weeks ago we were at Cape Leeuwin. (Most southwesterterly point in WA) Big old lighthouse there. Since our last visit they'd made one of the 3 old keepers cottages into an interpretive centre. We spent an hour or so exploring it. Absolutely fascinating. That's 100 years old. I don't link the value or interest level of history to how old it is. 

In Greenbushes WA there's a mining museum. They mine lithium now. That was an interesting one. Looks at the history of the timber industry in the South West. 

A lot of places have a 'historical walk or trail (our own suburb included, we even have a small museum which I love to spend time in.) Early settler towns like Bindoon, Gingin, Guildford etc. (Love the little museum there, the old gaol and settlers cottages) There's so much cultural stuff of interest if you want to look for it. Even in Perth! It's all relative. 

Beyond recent history we've of course the Indigenous history. So much history! Don't tell me Perth is boring! Oh my word. I need a cup of tea. 

The correct woke answer would be to point out WA's history goes back 40000 years.

[Parley]

13 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Actually we planned to move to Bournemouth but the housing market proved to be way beyond our reach.   Too many people renting out places as holiday lets rather than long-term rentals, plus lots of Londoners moving down (I could never understand that, it seemed like an impossible commute to me). 

We saw an ad for a new development in Southampton, we drove over and had a look and fell in love with it.  Knew nothing about the city and of course, you can't judge "friendliness" until you live there.  Basically we had a year living in the home of our dreams , just in totally the wrong location.   Full of chavs, horribly lonely.   I was willing to give the UK another chance if we moved to another city, but my oh was so fond of our home, he kept putting it off.  He didn't care if we had a mind-numbing day-to-day life, provided he got a  European holiday each year and a few trips to London.  Eventually I told him I was moving back to Australia with or without him.

I was really worried about returning to Oz because we came to Melbourne instead of returning to Sydney.  I worried that our lack of friends and mind-numbing life in Southampton was my own fault -- and I'd have exactly the same problem in Melbourne.   Not at all.  I have a great life in Melbourne, in fact to my great surprise, I think it suits me better than Sydney.

You could have tried the burbs outside Bournemouth might have been a bit cheaper.

Have a look on Google Maps for West Parley. That is where I was born and spent my childhood around there. Ferndown, West Parley, Kinson, Bournemouth, Poole, Boscombe etc.

But I think you made the right choice coming back to Australia. Although I don't think i would like living in the inner city of Melbourne. I enjoy the greenery and pace of the suburbs better.

[HappyHeart]

1 hour ago, Parley said:

The correct woke answer would be to point out WA's history goes back 40000 years.

Indeed. Factual though, not woke. Don't you just hate that terminology? 

[Blue Flu]

15 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Actually we planned to move to Bournemouth but the housing market proved to be way beyond our reach.   Too many people renting out places as holiday lets rather than long-term rentals, plus lots of Londoners moving down (I could never understand that, it seemed like an impossible commute to me). 

We saw an ad for a new development in Southampton, we drove over and had a look and fell in love with it.  Knew nothing about the city and of course, you can't judge "friendliness" until you live there.  Basically we had a year living in the home of our dreams , just in totally the wrong location.   Full of chavs, horribly lonely.   I was willing to give the UK another chance if we moved to another city, but my oh was so fond of our home, he kept putting it off.  He didn't care if we had a mind-numbing day-to-day life, provided he got a  European holiday each year and a few trips to London.  Eventually I told him I was moving back to Australia with or without him.

I was really worried about returning to Oz because we came to Melbourne instead of returning to Sydney.  I worried that our lack of friends and mind-numbing life in Southampton was my own fault -- and I'd have exactly the same problem in Melbourne.   Not at all.  I have a great life in Melbourne, in fact to my great surprise, I think it suits me better than Sydney.

Thanks for replying. We were looking at possible relocations to England in recent years (along with other countries) and Bournemouth  came top of the list. Pricey but less so than Brighton, a place I knew well and liked in the past. (Boscombe more affordable, but obviously more problems) Amazing how difficult a task that proved to be. But Australia proved much the same for me anyway. Did look at many cities and Southampton came out very badly for  anti social behaviour and easy to dismiss. Thing being so many UK cities have severe social crime issues. They label it chav's, but in my view this is a product of austerity that has engrossed the land over recent decades, impacting mostly on the disadvantaged. Drugs as here way out of control, but at least the scourge of meth  (ice) is not frequent in UK. 

But I digress. One city, still cheap, apparently not so youth crime ridden is Sheffield. Supposedly  very friendly and safe. Newcastle came out good as well. But for places without the problems one would do better across The Channel (especially if retiring ) where the culture is not yet experiencing the levels of youth crime and alcohol abuse of too many English cities.

Great you found Melbourne so much to your liking. Probably the only place, for people looking for certain cultural traits in Australia. That's one city that picked up their game in the latter decades of last century. I suspect you would need to chose well though. Many of those suburbs look 'disheartening' to say the least. Trust your hubby has adapted to live there with equal enthusiasm as yourself?  

Edited May 2, 2021 by Blue Flu

[Blue Flu]

45 minutes ago, HappyHeart said:

Indeed. Factual though, not woke. Don't you just hate that terminology? 

That term should be struck from the English language forth with. It has suddenly come out of nowhere into the mouths of babes and the family galah. At least giving the appearance of, in its over use and meaningless .

[newjez]

49 minutes ago, Blue Flu said:

Thanks for replying. We were looking at possible relocations to England in recent years (along with other countries) and Bournemouth  came top of the list. Pricey but less so than Brighton, a place I knew well and liked in the past. (Boscombe more affordable, but obviously more problems) Amazing how difficult a task that proved to be. But Australia proved much the same for me anyway. Did look at many cities and Southampton came out very badly for  anti social behaviour and easy to dismiss. Thing being so many UK cities have severe social crime issues. They label it chav's, but in my view this is a product of austerity that has engrossed the land over recent decades, impacting mostly on the disadvantaged. Drugs as here way out of control, but at least the scourge of meth  (ice) is not frequent in UK. 

But I digress. One city, still cheap, apparently not so youth crime ridden is Sheffield. Supposedly  very friendly and safe. Newcastle came out good as well. But for places without the problems one would do better across The Channel (especially if retiring ) where the culture is not yet experiencing the levels of youth crime and alcohol abuse of too many English cities.

Great you found Melbourne so much to your liking. Probably the only place, for people looking for certain cultural traits in Australia. That's one city that picked up their game in the latter decades of last century. I suspect you would need to chose well though. Many of those suburbs look 'disheartening' to say the least. Trust your hubby has adapted to live there with equal enthusiasm as yourself?  

Sheffield is nice, but I wouldn't call it cheap. A lot of housing in the north has gone up alot. 

[newjez]

3 hours ago, Parley said:

The correct woke answer would be to point out WA's history goes back 40000 years.

Does it though?

You know those traditional dot paintings that you get? You know they aren't traditional don't you?

[newjez]

45 minutes ago, Blue Flu said:

That term should be struck from the English language forth with. It has suddenly come out of nowhere into the mouths of babes and the family galah. At least giving the appearance of, in its over use and meaningless .

Is there a difference between woke and PC?

[Marisawright]

4 hours ago, Parley said:

You could have tried the burbs outside Bournemouth might have been a bit cheaper....

But I think you made the right choice coming back to Australia. Although I don't think i would like living in the inner city of Melbourne. I enjoy the greenery and pace of the suburbs better.

See, that's where we're different, and it's also why we didn't think of looking at the outer burbs of Bournemouth either.  We're inner-city folk and would hate to live in the green, leafy suburbs anywhere!

What we didn't realise, after such a long absence from the UK, was that middle-aged people and retirees don't do inner-city living in UK cities.   Everyone seems to have embraced the "Escape to the Country" ethos, and live in little villages on the outer edges.  The inner city is left to students and council housing. I think, to get the kind of inner-city vibe we like, we'd have had to go to London (which we couldn't afford).  I was keen to try Edinburgh but my oh was convinced he'd freeze to death. 

[Marisawright]

2 hours ago, Blue Flu said:

Great you found Melbourne so much to your liking. Probably the only place, for people looking for certain cultural traits in Australia. That's one city that picked up their game in the latter decades of last century. I suspect you would need to chose well though. Many of those suburbs look 'disheartening' to say the least. Trust your hubby has adapted to live there with equal enthusiasm as yourself?  

It's funny, but when I was in Sydney, people always thought of Melbourne as more "cultured".  Now I'm here, people on the dance and music scene are envious of how much is going on in Sydney.  I don't think there is really much to choose between them in that sense.   If it wasn't for the heat and the high cost of housing, I'd still be in Sydney.

Hubby took a long time to get over the move, but he loves Melbourne now.   In fact he often says he wished we'd thought of moving to Melbourne sooner, instead of trying the overseas move (actually I did suggest it at the time, but let's not go there...).  Financially, we are much better off in Australia than we would've been in the UK, so that is a bonus.  

I think any large city has its share of awful suburbs.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Marisawright

[JetBlast]

9 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

It's funny, but when I was in Sydney, people always thought of Melbourne as more "cultured".  Now I'm here, people on the dance and music scene are envious of how much is going on in Sydney. 

The grass is always greener!

[Red Rose]

Southampton, what a blast from the past.

I used to go there to visit a friend when he was at Southampton Uni.

It had this weird vibe, feeling a bit depressing, almost cold, with a feeling of emptiness. Hard to describe really, but it didn't feel like a warm, welcoming, buzzy city if that makes sense. 

[Blue Flu]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

See, that's where we're different, and it's also why we didn't think of looking at the outer burbs of Bournemouth either.  We're inner-city folk and would hate to live in the green, leafy suburbs anywhere!

What we didn't realise, after such a long absence from the UK, was that middle-aged people and retirees don't do inner-city living in UK cities.   Everyone seems to have embraced the "Escape to the Country" ethos, and live in little villages on the outer edges.  The inner city is left to students and council housing. I think, to get the kind of inner-city vibe we like, we'd have had to go to London (which we couldn't afford).  I was keen to try Edinburgh but my oh was convinced he'd freeze to death. 

My feelings exactly' Love as a rule the inner city vibe and things like walkability and convenience. Detest anywhere that relies on car dependency. Decent public transport a must. Green spaces as well. I loved London for that reason. 

Interesting points you make about inner city living in England. Probably the reason never found anywhere remotely compatible to desirability list outside of London and Brighton. Never been to Manchester or Liverpool though. Quite liked Newcastle, but only time there, experienced a heat wave. Very different experience to the norm and population were rejoicing in it for that week. 

I imagine there is far more opportunity to relocate to the countryside in England, than in Australia. There are some lovely villages, hardly remote in the Australian context worthy of consideration. 

I thought a lot of Melbourne inner city apartments were reliant on international students though? Is there a lot of middle aged living inner city as well? A healthy mix would be best, I guess. 

I live inner city but things have changed. Although mostly middle class, not very multi cultural as may be expected perhaps, drugs in the form of meth (ice) has become a very widespread issue. Not druggies as such, but the manufacture off. Very off putting and not overt unless know what to look for. Shame for me though, is I experience it of late from both sides . 

[Marisawright]

17 minutes ago, Blue Flu said:

I  thought a lot of Melbourne inner city apartments were reliant on international students though? Is there a lot of middle aged living inner city as well?

There is a lot of purpose-built student accommodation in the inner-city.   It's not like Sydney, where luxury inner-city high-rises are full of international students sleeping 12 to a room. 

Docklands is absolutely bursting with retirees.  Downsizing to the city has become quite a trend in Melbourne.  However, when I say "inner city", I think of the inner ring of suburbs rather than just the city itself.  We're in Brunswick East.  We have a choice of two trams and a bus to get us into the city (though we usually walk it).   Carlton, Brunswick, Fitzroy are all close by, vibrant suburbs with their own high streets.  Strong hipster culture but a mix of others too--I can't say we feel out of place. Draw a circle round the city at a similar radius and you'll find lots of similar burbs.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Marisawright

[newjez]

6 hours ago, Parley said:

I've got an axe  that is 80 years old.

It has only had 3 new heads and 4 new handles in all that time.

I'm guessing the wedge was the original though.

[Blue Flu]

15 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

There is a lot of purpose-built student accommodation in the inner-city.   It's not like Sydney, where luxury inner-city high-rises are full of international students sleeping 12 to a room. 

Docklands is absolutely bursting with retirees.  Downsizing to the city has become quite a trend in Melbourne.  However, when I say "inner city", I think of the inner ring of suburbs rather than just the city itself.  We're in Brunswick East.  We have a choice of two trams and a bus to get us into the city (though we usually walk it).   Carlton, Brunswick, Fitzroy are all close by, vibrant suburbs with their own high streets.  Strong hipster culture but a mix of others too--I can't say we feel out of place. Draw a circle round the city at a similar radius and you'll find lots of similar burbs.

Brunswick East. Sounds like the sort of area I'd feel in tune with. I know Docklands from decades back. I'm trying to recall but wasn't there some issue with some of the building? The longest spell I passed in Melbourne was on my first time in the city back in the nineties. Stayed in Balwyn and found it wanting. Lovely houses and seemingly cosmopolitan, but barely saw a soul around on the streets where I stated. Since stayed in other places and while not quite as lively as may have expected in places , certainly far more vibe than Perth. My friend lives out in Reservoir. Yet to make an acquittance with that area. Next time will check that out. I wonder if you find contact easy? Are people easy to engage from your experience? 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Blue Flu