Getting OUT of England

[Rallyman]

16 hours ago, Marisawright said:

I said that the UK could have closed its borders back in March, like Australia, because it's an island.   Jon pointed out that there is a difference - goods arrive on the ships to Australia via container, whereas goods arrive on the ships to the UK in trucks.  It wouldn't be practical to change that, so the thousands of truckers would have to be allowed exemptions.  

Trucks bringing in supplies have always been classified as essential workers and given exemptions   governments around the world have not stopped essential workers it’s not a rational comparison, I do agree that the uk should have closed airports etc to non essential travel, I think Spain introduced first lock down in Europe but by middle of summer it was a free for all travel wise , lots of people I know on holidays across Europe, Turkey, Greece, Spain , France to name a few , while we here  in Australia had very strict travel embargo’s placed on us. I think we all know which ones turned out the best, 

Edited March 21, 2021 by Rallyman

[Paul1Perth]

20 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

I think there was a point in doing that earlier but they didn’t and it’s obvious now that was a big mistake. It came late but late is better than never. A harsh lesson was learnt and acted on. I think the borders remaining open was a big mistake that cost the country dearly. Why that happened for so long will be a mystery to many I think. We had the big advantage of being an island but didn’t utilise that advantage. 

Loopyloo explained it. Human rights.

[Paul1Perth]

On 20/03/2021 at 05:39, Rallyman said:

Australia never stopped importation of goods , 

Or exportation, otherwise WA wouldn't be in such good shape.

[Rallyman]

2 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

Or exportation, otherwise WA wouldn't be in such good shape.

Yes trade continued, problems we have is China holding onto shipping containers 

[Dusty Plains]

On 20/03/2021 at 04:33, Loopylu said:

I don’t see any UNHCR citations of fundamental human rights law breaches for the UK in your post.  The UK does not lock up genuine refugees indefinitely. 
The UK is not perfect but the fact you could pull up those reports shows that issues are not swept under the carpet as they are by the Australian media. People in Australia (including British immigrants) have no conscience and so long as they are OK, they wash their hands of their responsibilities towards the rest of the world and those less fortunate than themselves.
As for me relocating to the UK, I would love nothing more but my children are at uni/late high school and my Australian husband is about to start dialysis. Hardly the time to up sticks or are you suggesting I abandon them? It’s typical Aussie to just trot out the ‘if you don’t love it, leave’. 

I understand your personal predicament, and I have already sympathised with you, yet your subsequent posts seem to be bent towards bashing Australia other than that associated with your personal disposition. I have empathised with your personal issues but,  for goodness sake, you are coming over as someone we very rarely see here on PIO, and that is the typical whingeing pom when it comes to, well, as blaming Australia.  Get over it. Its not the UK.

Factor 1. You are correct. Australia could not give a stuff about the UN. We do not pay our dues to the UN and have not done so for years. As you suggest, Australia is a recalcitrant member of the UN and predominantly we are very happy to be so. It is not a socialist world after all and it never will be given that socialism has failed time after time.

 We see the UN as a wholly woke organisation that simply wants money from rich nations to support the usual, and therefore predictable, broader socialist dogma nonsense worldwide.

Australia has stated through its Foreign Minister that "the UN needs to grow up", Ain't that the truth? With statements like that, you can possibly understand that Australia has far more on its plate than dealing with the UN. The UN wants rich nations to fund failed states. Sorry.  Not a thing at Bondi, Byron Bay, the Gold Coast, WA, Tasmania, but possibly in Victoria, with Chairman Dan.  

Yet there we were in 1999 deploying the ADF to invade East Timor to protect the locals from the deadly and marauding TNI (Indonesian "Army"}  and "murdering militia" (also TNI) by protecting the UN encampment in Dili and evacuating the UN staff. That operation would have been commensurate with England invading Ireland, We didn't see any lawyers there though. 

Considering  Emergency Aid & Refugee Support | Australia for UNHCR: Australians supporting the UN Refugee Agency (unrefugees.org.au) Australia has always supported the UN in this respect, but not by sending money and support to the UN, but by taking action through the deployment of the ADF and state agencies such as NSW Health Emergency Teams and NSW Fire and Rescue teams deployed into Banda Ache following the earthquake and Tsunami in 2004, the Christchurch Earthquake in New Zealand etc.  We did not see any International Law lawyers there either.   

Factor 2.   The UNHCR.  In 1951, Australia like most nations signed the agreement, but made a condition that it would not necessarily receive refugees from Papua New Guinea. The UN accepted   (you can read it in the minutes.) Manus Island is a part of New Guinea, and so Australia is under no obligation to receive "refugees" from Manus Island.

 The UN convention of 1951 was aimed at repatriating the masses following WW2 in Europe. That notion is a long, long way from current times. If you are attempting to come to Australia by boat or by other clandestine means then you will never be admitted. 

 Here enters the element this week whereby in the UK Priti Patel ( whoever that person is) has adopted the Australian model of implementing off shore assessment of refugees. 

I think you would be happier back in the UK. At least you would have no complaints.  

Edited March 21, 2021 by Dusty Plains

[purplealster]

As someone who grew up in a third world country, then lived in the UK for 9 years before moving to Australia 15 years ago, I am 100% supportive of Australia's policies towards border control and the Liberals response to the COVID Pandemic.

It sounds like you are a very angry individual, who tends to lean towards the left of politics. I am yet to come across a left leaning person who doesn't have a permanent gripe about something. 

My mother and mother in law are both still in Africa. If something had to happen to them, and the chances are it would be more along the lines of murder or rape rather than covid, myself and my husband would have problems getting to them. Yes, the thought of this is frightening but these are unprecedented times. We also realise that it is pointless worrying ourselves sick about it this - I haven't seen my mum in 3 years and my kids their grandmothers - very sad but such is life.

You seem to be fixated with the fact that Scomo has been vaccinated. Yet, you do not direct the same anger towards Albanese and Bandt who have also been vaccinated. Why is that?

 

Edited March 21, 2021 by purplealster

[Loopylu]

23 minutes ago, purplealster said:

As someone who grew up in a third world country, then lived in the UK for 9 years before moving to Australia 15 years ago, I am 100% supportive of Australia's policies towards border control and the Liberals response to the COVID Pandemic.

It sounds like you are a very angry individual, who tends to lean towards the left of politics. I am yet to come across a left leaning person who doesn't have a permanent gripe about something. 

My mother and mother in law are both still in Africa. If something had to happen to them, and the chances are it would be more along the lines of murder or rape rather than covid, myself and my husband would have problems getting to them. Yes, the thought of this is frightening but these are unprecedented times. We also realise that it is pointless worrying ourselves sick about it this - I haven't seen my mum in 3 years and my kids their grandmothers - very sad but such is life.

You seem to be fixated with the fact that Scomo has been vaccinated. Yet, you do not direct the same anger towards Albanese and Bandt who have also been vaccinated. Why is that?

 

It is the LNP (ie Scomo) that is in control of who gets the vaccine first. Albanese and Bandt were going along for the ride.

I am apolitical, don’t vote and my views about how we should treat the stranger and those less fortunate than ourselves are based on the teachings of Christ. I have no faith in mankind, and socialism fails because of the inherent selfishness of people. However, in my view, it is the closest political theory to what God requires of true believers.  

I am sorry to hear that your two mothers who I am guessing are in SA are isolated from you and live in a dangerous environment. Maybe you could pay for contributory parent visas which is the quickest way of getting them to Australia? 
 
I had not seen my parents for over 2 years as their annual trip to see us in 2020 was prevented by the Australian lockdown. Sadly my children will not see their beloved grandad in person again and I AM angry and sad about that and blame Australia for that. 

 

 

[Dusty Plains]

29 minutes ago, Loopylu said:

I am apolitical, don’t vote and my views about how we should treat the stranger and those less fortunate than ourselves are based on the teachings of Christ.

Then render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's.

 

[Loopylu]

8 minutes ago, Dusty Plains said:

Then render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's.

 

I pay my taxes.  Your point?  

[Fisher1]

On 19/03/2021 at 16:40, Loopylu said:

Bully for you.
 

It has been an extremely stressful time trying to get back to the UK to spend time with my father before he dies a horrid but fairly quick death from pancreatic cancer. I work with others in Brisbane who have not been so lucky and they have missed the passing of parents and funerals. 
 

I sincerely hope this never happens to you or anyone you care about. You obviously have no sympathy for me or my family....

Dusty plains said he was happy with the current arrangements for leaving Australia. Many people in Australia must feel grateful for the draconian rules that have kept them safe - I know I do - but I’m sure most people would also feel the utmost sympathy for people like you, who are suffering because of those same rules.  Thirteen years ago I watched my father die of cancer during a weeks ‘holiday’ from my job outside the UK, knowing that if his death took longer than a week I would have to leave ... so I have some small notion of the grief you must be enduring, particularly with your husband’s ill health to contend with. I hope you can get through this harrowing time and back to Australia with the minimum of further anguish. People do care.

Edited March 21, 2021 by Fisher1

[Rallyman]

11 hours ago, Loopylu said:

It is the LNP (ie Scomo) that is in control of who gets the vaccine first. Albanese and Bandt were going along for the ride.

I am apolitical, don’t vote and my views about how we should treat the stranger and those less fortunate than ourselves are based on the teachings of Christ. I have no faith in mankind, and socialism fails because of the inherent selfishness of people. However, in my view, it is the closest political theory to what God requires of true believers.  

I am sorry to hear that your two mothers who I am guessing are in SA are isolated from you and live in a dangerous environment. Maybe you could pay for contributory parent visas which is the quickest way of getting them to Australia? 
 
I had not seen my parents for over 2 years as their annual trip to see us in 2020 was prevented by the Australian lockdown. Sadly my children will not see their beloved grandad in person again and I AM angry and sad about that and blame Australia for that. 

 

 

Who should get the vaccine first?  

somebody will always feel hard done by , somebody had to start  first and then work through list , this is not a easy roll out , but unfortunately it’s far easier to complain than praise the good job done to keep our numbers down in the first place. 
 

some of us lost our parents at a young age and would be grateful  to even face time them. 
As said before people going through far worse than yourself. 
you must have realised when you moved to the other side of the world the family implications involved . 
 

 

[Skani]

11 hours ago, Loopylu said:

I had not seen my parents for over 2 years as their annual trip to see us in 2020 was prevented by the Australian lockdown. Sadly my children will not see their beloved grandad in person again and I AM angry and sad about that and blame Australia for that. 

Nothing is guaranteed in life, least of all in migrating.   Consider your children blessed that they met their grandparents.  The reality for the children of the millions of migrants to Australia is that they never met their grandparents  and the migrants themselves never saw their parents again after migrating. This was the reality for me and my family and every other migrant family I knew.    Travelling for family reunions - in either direction - was a luxury impossible for most people until relatively recently.  Think positively about the personal contact you have been able to maintain.  

[rtritudr]

17 hours ago, Rallyman said:

Yes trade continued, problems we have is China holding onto shipping containers 

You don't need shipping containers for iron ore.

[Rallyman]

28 minutes ago, rtritudr said:

You don't need shipping containers for iron ore.

Shipping iron ore is not a problem nobody has suggest that . lots of shortages of other supplies as a world shortage of shipping containers , with less planes carrying cargo it has knock on effect. 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2021-02-01/food-shipping-container-shortage-puts-squeeze-on-trade/13100728

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/22/shipping-container-shortage-is-causing-shipping-costs-to-rise.html

[Loopylu]

5 hours ago, Skani said:

Nothing is guaranteed in life, least of all in migrating.   Consider your children blessed that they met their grandparents.  The reality for the children of the millions of migrants to Australia is that they never met their grandparents  and the migrants themselves never saw their parents again after migrating. This was the reality for me and my family and every other migrant family I knew.    Travelling for family reunions - in either direction - was a luxury impossible for most people until relatively recently.  Think positively about the personal contact you have been able to maintain.  

I am well aware of how it used to be. My mother who is an only child lost all of her maternal cousins who were like siblings to Australia in the 1950s. Her family were due to join them but were prevented by the Suez crisis. All of her paternal family are in Canada. All of my childhood we kept in touch by aerogram letters and the odd very expensive phone call. In the 1970s and 80s the richer ones would come to visit very regularly. It was obvious then that they loved the UK and regretted their migration but they were stuck due to all of the same issues that we see regularly on this forum... None of my mother’s five first cousins who are all in their 80s now have ever taken Australian citizenship.
 

The fact is that, when I agreed to live in my very homesick husband’s country so he could spend time with his ailing mother who has now passed, it was possible to jump on a plane in 24 hours if the need arose. My kids could have come for a couple of weeks to farewell their grandad without fear of being trapped by arrivals caps... With hindsight I would never have moved to Australia but, as they say, there is no point crying over spilt milk. 
 

God does not test us beyond what we can endure and I have to hold onto this. 

[Fisher1]

18 hours ago, purplealster said:

As someone who grew up in a third world country, then lived in the UK for 9 years before moving to Australia 15 years ago, I am 100% supportive of Australia's policies towards border control and the Liberals response to the COVID Pandemic.

It sounds like you are a very angry individual, who tends to lean towards the left of politics. I am yet to come across a left leaning person who doesn't have a permanent gripe about something. 

My mother and mother in law are both still in Africa. If something had to happen to them, and the chances are it would be more along the lines of murder or rape rather than covid, myself and my husband would have problems getting to them. Yes, the thought of this is frightening but these are unprecedented times. We also realise that it is pointless worrying ourselves sick about it this - I haven't seen my mum in 3 years and my kids their grandmothers - very sad but such is life.

You seem to be fixated with the fact that Scomo has been vaccinated. Yet, you do not direct the same anger towards Albanese and Bandt who have also been vaccinated. Why is that?

 

Generalisation is seldom wise. I’m a ‘left leaning’ person and I don’t have a particular gripe about anything.

[Loopylu]

9 hours ago, Fisher1 said:

Dusty plains said he was happy with the current arrangements for leaving Australia. Many people in Australia must feel grateful for the draconian rules that have kept them safe - I know I do - but I’m sure most people would also feel the utmost sympathy for people like you, who are suffering because of those same rules.  Thirteen years ago I watched my father die of cancer during a weeks ‘holiday’ from my job outside the UK, knowing that if his death took longer than a week I would have to leave ... so I have some small notion of the grief you must be enduring, particularly with your husband’s ill health to contend with. I hope you can get through this harrowing time and back to Australia with the minimum of further anguish. People do care.

Thanks for your kind words. I am very sorry to hear your personal story. It is also possible that I may have to return before my Dad passes. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) cancer does not follow a clearly defined timetable. In 5% of cases a person can survive a Stage 4 pancreatic cancer diagnosis by up to 2 years if they respond well to chemo. Unfortunately I don’t think this will be the case for my father. He has only had one dose of chemo and was not allowed to have the second due to a huge drop in platelet count. They hope to give him a lower dose tomorrow if his blood count has improved.

[ramot]

9 minutes ago, Loopylu said:

I am well aware of how it used to be. My mother who is an only child lost all of her maternal cousins who were like siblings to Australia in the 1950s. Her family were due to join them but were prevented by the Suez crisis. All of her paternal family are in Canada. All of my childhood we kept in touch by aerogram letters and the odd very expensive phone call. In the 1970s and 80s the richer ones would come to visit very regularly. It was obvious then that they loved the UK and regretted their migration but they were stuck due to all of the same issues that we see regularly on this forum... None of my mother’s five first cousins who are all in their 80s now have ever taken Australian citizenship.
 

The fact is that, when I agreed to live in my very homesick husband’s country so he could spend time with his ailing mother who has now passed, it was possible to jump on a plane in 24 hours if the need arose. My kids could have come for a couple of weeks to farewell their grandad without fear of being trapped by arrivals caps... With hindsight I would never have moved to Australia but, as they say, there is no point crying over spilt milk. 
 

God does not test us beyond what we can endure and I have to hold onto this. 

I genuinely think, you need to work at accepting the present situation, it’s not going to change for quite a while, and working yourself up over circumstances that are out of your control isn’t helping you. Accept that you are with your parents at the moment, and live in the moment. Lots of us are hurting due to the present world situation. I think we feel a loss of control over our lives. My only grandchildren are in UK, my husband and I are in our late 70’s, so we hope to see them in the future, but really have no idea if we will ever see them again. How lucky are we that we can FaceTime these days, of course there is nothing better than to be with each other, but it’s still lovely to be able to chat away.

[Dusty Plains]

On 19/03/2021 at 11:33, Dusty Plains said:

Australians and permanent residents

If you are an Australian citizen or a permanent resident you cannot leave Australia due to COVID-19 restrictions unless you have an exemption. You can apply online but you must meet at least one of the following:

your travel is as part of the response to the COVID-19 outbreak, including the provision of aid 

your travel is for your business/employer

you are travelling to receive urgent medical treatment that is not available in Australia

you are travelling outside Australia for a compelling reason for three months or longer

you are travelling on compassionate or humanitarian grounds 

your travel is in the national interest.

You must provide evidence to support your claims. Requests may be finalised without further consideration if insufficient evidence is provided. Evidence may include:

passport/s

marriage certificate/s

birth certificate/s

death certificate/s

proof of relationship (for example, shared tenancy agreement, joint bank account etc.)*

proof that you are moving to another country on a long term basis such as leases, job offers and evidence your goods are being transported

proof of your current valid visa, including in Australia and/or overseas

letter from a doctor or hospital about any medical treatment/condition with statements on why travel is necessary

letter from your employer, or other evidence that you are travelling for a business reason

statement or evidence to show when you wish to return to Australia

any other proof you may have to support your claims.

 

I am happy with these arrangements. 

The UK government has announced that from Monday next week, new Covid-19 laws will come into play. A ban on leaving the United Kingdom is included in new coronavirus laws coming into force next week. 

The law says no-one may 'leave England to travel to a destination outside the United Kingdom, or travel to, or be present at, an embarkation point for the purpose of travelling from there to a destination outside the United Kingdom' without a reasonable excuse.

It suggests anyone who breaks such rules could face a £5,000 fine. There is also a £200 fixed penalty notice for failing to fill in a travel declaration form – giving person details and reason for travel – for those planning to leave the UK.

Exemptions apply including for those needing to travel for work, study, for legal obligations or to vote, if they are moving, selling or renting property, for some childcare reasons or to be present at a birth, to visit a dying relative or close friend, to attend a funeral, for those getting married or to attend the wedding of a close relative, for medical appointments or to escape a risk of harm.

Sound familiar? 

[Fisher1]

1 hour ago, Dusty Plains said:

The UK government has announced that from Monday next week, new Covid-19 laws will come into play. A ban on leaving the United Kingdom is included in new coronavirus laws coming into force next week. 

The law says no-one may 'leave England to travel to a destination outside the United Kingdom, or travel to, or be present at, an embarkation point for the purpose of travelling from there to a destination outside the United Kingdom' without a reasonable excuse.

It suggests anyone who breaks such rules could face a £5,000 fine. There is also a £200 fixed penalty notice for failing to fill in a travel declaration form – giving person details and reason for travel – for those planning to leave the UK.

Exemptions apply including for those needing to travel for work, study, for legal obligations or to vote, if they are moving, selling or renting property, for some childcare reasons or to be present at a birth, to visit a dying relative or close friend, to attend a funeral, for those getting married or to attend the wedding of a close relative, for medical appointments or to escape a risk of harm.

Sound familiar? 

Pity they didn’t do that in the first place.

 

[newjez]

1 hour ago, Fisher1 said:

Pity they didn’t do that in the first place.

 

Why isn't that in place now?

People coming to the UK from the EU can ' isolate at home', which means they won't. Only red list need to stay in a government approved hotel. I mean come on, when are they going to start taking this seriously? We're almost there, and they could throw it all away.

[ramot]

2 hours ago, Fisher1 said:

Pity they didn’t do that in the first place.

 

There seems generally to have been a habit of locking the stable door too late.

Edited March 23, 2021 by ramot

[Dusty Plains]

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/foreign-holiday-ban-travel-coronavirus-laws-b925592.html

[Jon the Hat]

The enthusiasm with which you all welcome more and more restrictions on your liberty is a little chilling.  17 people died within 28 days of a positive covid test yesterday.  Death rates are below the normal fr this time of year.  We have the vulnerable vaccinated.  This is ridiculous.

[Jon the Hat]

9 hours ago, Dusty Plains said:

Sound familiar? 

It is a form you can fill in and print at home.  As long as you actually have a reason you are not reliant on Government pre-approval.  Very unlikely this is as strict as the Australian model.