Australian and UK Covid Responses

[Marisawright 10,232]

3 hours ago, Lavers said:

If science didn’t go out of the window a long time ago, why do we see so many countries treating Covid so differently?

We don't often agree but in this case I do.  I don't agree that it was politicial "from the start", but it's definitely been political since about the middle of last year.   Listen to eminent epidemiologists and they're still saying the same things, but most governments have decided that the economy is more important.  Old and immuno-compromised people can either become hermits or die, it's a small price to pay to save businesses.

[Lavers 1,342]

3 hours ago, Marisawright said:

We don't often agree but in this case I do.  I don't agree that it was politicial "from the start", but it's definitely been political since about the middle of last year.   Listen to eminent epidemiologists and they're still saying the same things, but most governments have decided that the economy is more important.  Old and immuno-compromised people can either become hermits or die, it's a small price to pay to save businesses.

I think it’s not only the economy which the governments look at but also the impact it has on the population as a whole.

We saw big impacts on mental health and children’s learning etc, unfortunately someone suffers which ever way we go about it.

[Parley 7,355]

3 hours ago, Marisawright said:

We don't often agree but in this case I do.  I don't agree that it was politicial "from the start", but it's definitely been political since about the middle of last year.   Listen to eminent epidemiologists and they're still saying the same things, but most governments have decided that the economy is more important.  Old and immuno-compromised people can either become hermits or die, it's a small price to pay to save businesses.

Don't forget all the eminent scientists on ATAGI recommended AstraZeneca not be given to anyone over 50.

As I recalled you criticized these eminent scientists for doing so.

This is who they are. Very well qualified all of them.

https://www.health.gov.au/committees-and-groups/australian-technical-advisory-group-on-immunisation-atagi#members

Edited February 17 by Parley

[Marisawright 10,232]

26 minutes ago, Parley said:

Don't forget all the eminent scientists on ATAGI recommended AstraZeneca not be given to anyone over 50.

ATAGI is ultra-cautious, as they've proved on more than one occasion.  

[Ken 1,567]

On 16/02/2023 at 05:59, FirstWorldProblems said:

Certainly I’d think they should revisit this when the disease is no longer endemic.  

I think you're getting mixed up between epidemic and endemic. Covid is going to be endemic for at least the next 50 years.

[Ken 1,567]

5 hours ago, Marisawright said:

No, their chances of dying will be very much higher than normal, because they are immuno-suppressed. 

Only a 90% chance of not dying from Covid is very much higher than normal (better than 99.9%) and has clearly been adjusted for being immuno-suppressed.

[simmo 21,581]

7 hours ago, Marisawright said:

  Old and immuno-compromised people can either become hermits or die, it's a small price to pay to save businesses.

The Great Barrington declaration had the perfect solution (IMO)

 

https://brownstone.org/articles/focused-protection-jay-bhattacharya-sunetra-gupta-and-martin-kulldorff/

[FirstWorldProblems 1,677]

19 hours ago, Lavers said:

If science didn’t go out of the window a long time ago, why do we see so many countries treating Covid so differently?

It was political from the start and certain leaders have gotten power hungry throughout.

If it was about following the science then surely we would see most countries doing the same thing.

Biden said middle of last year that the pandemic was over and that there is no difference between and unvaccinated and vaccinated person, yet there borders have stayed shut to unvaccinated travellers.

I'd suggest that you are describing the application by governments of what the science points to.   It feels like the science is consistent around the world (albeit evolving as we learn more).  What varies is the level of compromise governments are willing to make in the application of containment measures.  That's why this thread started right?  Comparing the different responses that two countries took to the emerging science.

It wasn't that the science was different, nor even the interpretation of what the science was indicating, but that the cost:benefit impact of suppression strategies differed.  From let-it-rip all the way to keep everyone locked down for 2 years and a hundred variations in between the two.  Would you agree?  

[FirstWorldProblems 1,677]

9 hours ago, Ken said:

Only a 90% chance of not dying from Covid is very much higher than normal (better than 99.9%) and has clearly been adjusted for being immuno-suppressed.

It is a Friday and I am pretty tired, but I think that's 100 times higher, correct?

Edited February 17 by FirstWorldProblems

[simmo 21,581]

This sums up my feelings on mask mandates.  I was one of those that wore them in closed public spaces only out of courtesy to others.  Whilst my dad was dying during lockdown I would secretly visit him and sometimes bring him home to drink wine in the garden with not a face nappy in sight.  

I feel so sorry for others that follwed the rules and visited elderly and sick and would wave from 2meters away in their masks. What must they think now?

I'm also so angry that both my kids had to go through the lockdowns and mask madness at school during the most important academic years.

https://lauradodsworth.substack.com/p/the-new-york-times-is-wrong-mask

Edited February 25 by simmo

[Parley 7,355]

The US Energy Department has concluded that the Covid pandemic most likely arose from a laboratory leak, according to a classified intelligence report recently provided to the White House and key members of Congress.

[Lavers 1,342]

6 hours ago, Parley said:

The US Energy Department has concluded that the Covid pandemic most likely arose from a laboratory leak, according to a classified intelligence report recently provided to the White House and key members of Congress.

Stop with these silly conspiracies please

[Toots 11,705]

This anti vax bus giving out anti vax info has been touring Australia and it has now reached Tasmania.  Bit late as most people here have had their 4th and 5th jab.

 

 

[Lavers 1,342]

9 minutes ago, Toots said:

This anti vax bus giving out anti vax info has been touring Australia and it has now reached Tasmania.  Bit late as most people here have had their 4th and 5th jab.

 

 

I just think we should leave people to do as they choose.

As long as mandates etc stay away it’s all good.

[Marisawright 10,232]

16 hours ago, Lavers said:

I just think we should leave people to do as they choose.

As long as mandates etc stay away it’s all good.

It would be wonderful if every human being was intelligent and conscientious and did the right thing. Unfortunately too many humans are selfish, or lazy, or contrary, or dumb, or over-anxious, or gullible, or have a suspicious nature....for whatever reason, they object to doing anything that would support the greater good.  That's why mandates like seat belts, road rules, etc, are necessary. 

[Lavers 1,342]

5 hours ago, Marisawright said:

It would be wonderful if every human being was intelligent and conscientious and did the right thing. Unfortunately too many humans are selfish, or lazy, or contrary, or dumb, or over-anxious, or gullible, or have a suspicious nature....for whatever reason, they object to doing anything that would support the greater good.  That's why mandates like seat belts, road rules, etc, are necessary. 

I’d agree with you fully if the mandates where for something that worked.

Theres enough out there now to show that the vax does very little in reducing transmission.

It may reduce severity who knows, so the vax should be a personal choice as in reality you are the only person potentially being saved by having the vaccine.

[Parley 7,355]

2 minutes ago, Lavers said:

I’d agree with you fully if the mandates where for something that worked.

Theres enough out there now to show that the vax does very little in reducing transmission.

It may reduce severity who knows, so the vax should be a personal choice as in reality you are the only person potentially being saved by having the vaccine.

It is a personal choice. No government has forced you to have it.

My son for example has never been vaccinated against covid.

[simmo 21,581]

7 hours ago, Marisawright said:

It would be wonderful if every human being was intelligent and conscientious and did the right thing. Unfortunately too many humans are selfish, or lazy, or contrary, or dumb, or over-anxious, or gullible, or have a suspicious nature....for whatever reason, they object to doing anything that would support the greater good.  That's why mandates like seat belts, road rules, etc, are necessary. 

Wow! Are you suggesting that people who made a decision not to get the jab(s) are all of the above?

or any?

Edited February 28 by simmo

[FirstWorldProblems 1,677]

1 hour ago, Lavers said:

It may reduce severity who knows

Incredible.  

[simmo 21,581]

Coles have dropped their vaccine mandates. They should compensate everyone who they sacked IMO 

[Lavers 1,342]

3 hours ago, Parley said:

It is a personal choice. No government has forced you to have it.

My son for example has never been vaccinated against covid.

Well I suppose if you think people choosing between eating or getting the vax is a fair choice then I suppose your right.

[Parley 7,355]

1 hour ago, Lavers said:

Well I suppose if you think people choosing between eating or getting the vax is a fair choice then I suppose your right.

He has never told me has missed a meal due to not being vaccinated. I probably will skip the 5th dose myself too. No one will care and no one will ask me whether i have had it.

Just do what you like and stop worrying about it. No one cares one way or the other.

There is less than 100 people in hospital with Covid in Victoria. The crisis is long over now.

[Marisawright 10,232]

6 hours ago, Lavers said:

It may reduce severity who knows.....

So....if you think back to what it was like in Italy and the UK when Covid first arrived in a completely unvaccinated population, to what Australia was like when Covid was finally let loose in a largely vaccinated Australia, you'd say there was no difference?????

Edited February 28 by Marisawright

[Lavers 1,342]

53 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

So....if you think back to what it was like in Italy and the UK when Covid first arrived in a completely unvaccinated population, to what Australia was like when Covid was finally let loose in a largely vaccinated Australia, you'd say there was no difference?????

UK & Italy did see the worse strain compared to Aus so that’s one big difference.
Covid has wiped out the elderly so maybe Australia just did more in protecting them.

I was reading about failed actions at the start of the pandemic and I can’t remember them all. Where the elderly sent back to care homes to not clog up hospitals, infecting more residents most at risk and killing thousands.

Do you remember at the start China showing people dropping dead in the streets, why didn’t we see that anywhere else in the world?

I shown that article the other week saying how 1/3rd of Americans had Covid in 2020 with no vaccines and the fatality rate has stayed pretty much the same during the pandemic even when vaccines where introduced.

Look talking about Covid is on a par with talking about politics, I don’t think vaccines are killing everyone etc etc I just think it was massively overplayed.

At a point now where people should just do what makes them feel safest.

[Marisawright 10,232]

8 hours ago, Lavers said:

UK & Italy did see the worse strain compared to Aus so that’s one big difference.

No, it's not, in fact one of the new strains identified last year is 64% more deadly than the original.  Most of the variants have been "a bit" milder, but only a bit. 

We saw people dropping dead in the street in several South American countries, India, Africa and in parts of America too.