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Australian and UK Covid Responses

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13 hours ago, DIG85 said:

The first article confirms that two shots are almost entirely useless against Omicron - it even quotes an effectiveness of 0%-20%! The Pfizer CEO has also said two shots offer no protection against Omicron. The article was published on 17 December 2021, as you say too early to reach a conclusion on the effectiveness of a booster,  but even at the time it was published, the effectiveness of the booster against Omicron was only 55%-80%. Studies since then confirm that the effectiveness of the booster wanes after about a month. Thank you for posting an article which confirms pretty much everything I was saying.

The second and third articles are irrelevant because the studies were undertaken between Sep 2020 and Sep 2021, before Omicron started. Omicron is now by far the dominant strain, pretty much all cases being recorded in Australia at the moment are Omciorn.

The fourth article is also irrelevant because the study was undertaken between June 2020 and March 2021.

It is you who is providing highly misleading information. 

More assertions offered with zero evidence - what a surprise.


British  | Lived in Australia 2001-02 on 457   | Married Aussie wife & moved back to UK | Plan to return to Sydney 2026 when all kids have finished school

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15 minutes ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

It isn't misinformation.  It's quite clear what it says and it's consistent with what I shared yesterday.  2 doses gives about 20%, a booster gives 60%.  Omicron is a variant that current vaccines weren't designed for, so you get less effectivness.  That fact neither undermines the value of vaccines.

Your interpretation of the information and the context you give when you share it is either misunderstanding or misinformation.   Which is it?

 

It is neither, I have said numerous times about this info being relevant  to Omicron.

 

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10 hours ago, welljock said:

Did you actually read this article before posting it, it rubbishing your claim rather than supporting it

I take it you missed this part of the article that Lavers posted:

"A full transcript of the interview clearly shows Mr Bourla was talking about another vaccine - against the shingles virus - Pfizer plans to update."

Every article/ report I can find says two doses of the vaccines provide 30-40% protection against catching the omicron strain, nowhere near the 90% against the other strains but definitely better than "little if any"

You perfectly demonstrate the problem - we've done it several times here.

We have some people here with a strongly entrenched position who absolutely will not challenge themselves to explore beyond that point of view and will not contemplate that they might be mistaken.   Instead they formulate their searches for information to support pre-existing bias.  They won't for example search for "effectiveness of Pfizer Covid vaccine" and review the summary of studies, instead they will search for "vaccines don't work", skim read looking for something to support the bias and quote that.

This is how misinformation spreads and as we've seen here recently, it can be compelling enough to convince some that Down is Up.

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British  | Lived in Australia 2001-02 on 457   | Married Aussie wife & moved back to UK | Plan to return to Sydney 2026 when all kids have finished school

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30 minutes ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

That factually inaccurate.

The evidence is clearly demonstrating that there is reduced infection when vaccinated and ergo reduced transmission.   

If you have access to new studies that show otherwise, I would be very interested to read them. Please do share.

So 95% vaccination rate but cases shoot through the roof.

Surely you can't believe that it stops the spread.

Edited by Lavers

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1 minute ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

You perfectly demonstrate the problem - we've done it several times here.

We have some people here with a strongly entrenched position who absolutely will not challenge themselves to explore beyond that point of view and will not contemplate that they might be mistaken.   Instead they formulate their searches for information to support pre-existing bias.  They won't for example search for "effectiveness of Pfizer Covid vaccine" and review the summary of studies, instead they will search for "vaccines don't work", skim read looking for something to support the bias and quote that.

This is how misinformation spreads and as we've seen here recently, it can be compelling enough to convince some that Down is Up.

I think what you have put is the other way around.

I am more than happy to look at everything but Albert bourla said himself about the vaccine.

So please tell me how that is misinformation.

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9 hours ago, Toots said:

Omicron apparently isn't as dangerous as the previous Covid variants but many people did die of those other variants and that's why getting vaccinated was important to me and many other people.   Whatever people's opinion is of how Australia coped during the pandemic nothing can detract from the fact that Australia has just about the lowest death rate from Covid in the world.

In reflection also, its confirmed that the initial foray by the Australian Government in procuring Pfizer stocks caused general unnecessary hullabaloo and brouhaha. There were many here on PIO for instance, along with the general population, who accused the government of being too slow and incompetent in getting Pfizer vaccination stocks to Australians. They are right to assume as much, yet interestingly, those people are probably still living. 

It is now known that Australia deliberately withheld the importation of Pfizer. There is no doubt about that. Australia had put in a pre-purchase agreement with Pfizer around about the time that countries such as Canada had also made a pre-purchase agreement in August and Australia followed two weeks later, but now known for a very good reason. 

Why? Because we wanted to see if this new Pfizer vaccine would actually work and provide effective evidence in relieving the on-going persistence of a single (closed-border) strategy. Think about it. Here we were, unvaccinated, with very small death rate from Covid-19. We were In lockdown locally in many areas, and on a state-by-state basis, so nationally and internationally therefore. Orders for Pfizer stocks were to be delivered during November worldwide and so right in the front door of the Northern Hemisphere flu season Australia was given a front row seat to monitor the effectiveness, or otherwise, of a pan-vaccine within the northern hemisphere flu season. 

As soon as Canada had put its order in for Pfizer, strategically ahead of Canada's flu season, then Australia simply employed Canada as a test case in anticipation of Australian strategies, going out of its southern hemisphere flu season, should a pan-vaccine be effective, or on the other hand should Australia maintain the closed-border strategy.

And why wouldn't it (Australia), Though there are far more people in Canada than Australia, yet for the purpose of logistics in disseminating vaccine stocks, both countries have similar averages of population per square kilometre (3.3 people per square Km in Australia and 3.9 people per square Km in Canada)  Both have population blobs though. Australia's major population is found in the masses in the east of the country and Canada's major population is in the south. Both countries have resident indigenous populations (possibly a key factor for Australia looking at Canada) many of which reside in islands away from the mainland.  Both Canada and Australia have highway networks, rail networks and air freight networks as well as sea freight to island dwellers. 

The health care systems in both countries are the Medicare system where most health care can be accessed for free. In the end, and a year or two on, countries such as New Zealand, well under ordered Pfizer back then and NZ is now completely closed. 

Australia monitored all of these key factors during the northern hemisphere in Canada. I am pretty happy that my government did what it thought was best given the circumstances as they prevailed at the time, even though it was always going to be unpopular. 

Edited by Dusty Plains

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3 minutes ago, Lavers said:

It is neither, I have said numerous times about this info being relevant  to Omicron.

 

That's just not true.

The original statement BY DIG85 was

  • "Two shots does not reduce the spread of Omicron to any meaningful degree, and even a booster wanes after about a month."

My response was to share evidence that there was 20% effectivenss against Omicron for 2 doses, 60% for a booster

You replied with a BBC article and asserted that it said 2 doses of the vaccine did nothing against omicron which a) ignored they rest of what I'd said and b) wasn't what it said at all.

So again, do you not understand or are you deliberately trying to mislead people?  


British  | Lived in Australia 2001-02 on 457   | Married Aussie wife & moved back to UK | Plan to return to Sydney 2026 when all kids have finished school

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7 minutes ago, Lavers said:

So 95% vaccination rate but cases shoot through the roof.

Surely you can't believe that it stops the spread.

Sigh.     No one said it stops the spread.  We've said MULTIPLE times that we haven't said that.  We've REPEATED time and again that it REDUCES the spread.  We've shown countless evidence that demonstrates that to be true.

But you won't listen.  You keep taking some nonsense strawman argument and ignore the core premise.

I've tried and I've tried to be helpful, because I believe that misinformation is very damaging and it can be very compelling, but you clearly, clearly aren't open minded on any of this, so I think it's best if I stop trying now.

 

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British  | Lived in Australia 2001-02 on 457   | Married Aussie wife & moved back to UK | Plan to return to Sydney 2026 when all kids have finished school

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31 minutes ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

More assertions offered with zero evidence - what a surprise.

Of the four studies you provided, one actually supported my argument and the other three were all published before Omicorn started.

It is you who is providing zero evidence.

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54 minutes ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

 

The evidence is clearly demonstrating that there is reduced infection when vaccinated and ergo reduced transmission.   

And yet you are unable to provide any evidence yourself - see my previous post.

Edited by DIG85

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45 minutes ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

That factually inaccurate.

The evidence is clearly demonstrating that there is reduced infection when vaccinated and ergo reduced transmission.   

If you have access to new studies that show otherwise, I would be very interested to read them. Please do share.

So infection rates have gone through the roof , despite very high vaccination rates and you are telling us that’s not correct. 
 

The numbers being quoted daily and death rates tell us this. 
 

what is interesting is a request I have been reading about in uk to ONS asking for number of deaths of covid compared to with covid. 
 

 

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27 minutes ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

 

My response was to share evidence that there was 20% effectivenss against Omicron for 2 doses

….

So again, do you not understand or are you deliberately trying to deliberately mislead people.

The evidence you shared actually said a “0%-20%” effectiveness for two doses, not “20%”. 
 

So tell me, who does not understand and who is deliberately trying to mislead people? It isn’t me.

 

 

Edited by DIG85

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33 minutes ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

Sigh.     No one said it stops the spread.  We've said MULTIPLE times that we haven't said that.  We've REPEATED time and again that it REDUCES the spread.  We've shown countless evidence that demonstrates that to be true.

But you won't listen.  You keep taking some nonsense strawman argument and ignore the core premise.

I've tried and I've tried to be helpful, because I believe that misinformation is very damaging and it can be very compelling, but you clearly, clearly aren't open minded on any of this, so I think it's best if I stop trying now.

 

Aside from the general theme and tenure of the discussion I think you have a problem. For the most part your posts had earlier been argumentative, playing the person and not the ball. Now your posts are just downright rude and bordering on aggression.

I may be wrong. Perhaps you simply cannot abide a view of the world other than yours. The worst thing you can do in polite conversation is to throw only those facts which vaguely support your argument.

Please do not throw rocks at us. We have a view of things also. Its called a discussion. 

Edited by Dusty Plains

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1 minute ago, Dusty Plains said:

I may be wrong.

It's good that we can agree on something.

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British  | Lived in Australia 2001-02 on 457   | Married Aussie wife & moved back to UK | Plan to return to Sydney 2026 when all kids have finished school

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Posts have been removed from this thread as it isn't for discussing the NHS or its issues.

I have posted numerous times in this thread asking for it to be used for posting info on WHATS HAPPENING WHERE YOU ARE. 

Stop the bickering and use the thread as intended or i will close this and revert back to admins original request of NO Covid threads allowed.

Cal x

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If you don't go after what you want, you'll never have it. If you don't ask, the answer is always no. If you don't step forward, you're always in the same place...

If you get a chance,take it, If it changes your life,let it. Nobody said it would be easy they just said it would be worth it...

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13 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

I wonder whether the impact the vaccine has on symptoms - i.e. people feel fine and go out and about - might be offsetting an actual reduction in spread so that neither are visible in the stats.

i've noticed that in the few days i've been here.  Two of my mates are convinced they haven't had covid at all, they've been everywhere and done everything, people around them have had it, their wives have had it.  Have they had a test?  No.  Now one of them says.....well, i felt a bit rough at the football before Xmas but was fine the next day.  Did he stay in? Well, it was Xmas and the pubs were open 😗

On the bright side, I ordered a pack of 7 RAT tests for me and my dad from Gov.uk.....went to collect them immediately from the chemist with the collection code sms'd to me.....and they just handed over 14 Tests.  Very efficient, they'll come in handy back in Australia.

Edited by beketamun
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The Federal Chief Medical Officer for Australian, Dr Paul Kelly, has just announced that the death rate for Omicron in Australia is 0.1% and falling. 

I’ve tried to compare this to a typical seasonal flu death rate but can’t find what I’m looking for.

From the beginning I’ve tried to base my opinion on Covid on the science, so with death rates this low I suppose I’m falling into the camp of “remove all restrictions and get on with living life”.


:evilface_frowning_s

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18 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

The Federal Chief Medical Officer for Australian, Dr Paul Kelly, has just announced that the death rate for Omicron in Australia is 0.1% and falling. 

I’ve tried to compare this to a typical seasonal flu death rate but can’t find what I’m looking for.

It’s lower. In the UK the flu death rate is officially around 0.2%, although in practice this is likely to be an overestimate since not all flu cases are recorded.

 

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1 hour ago, MacGyver said:

The Federal Chief Medical Officer for Australian, Dr Paul Kelly, has just announced that the death rate for Omicron in Australia is 0.1% and falling. 

I’ve tried to compare this to a typical seasonal flu death rate but can’t find what I’m looking for.

From the beginning I’ve tried to base my opinion on Covid on the science, so with death rates this low I suppose I’m falling into the camp of “remove all restrictions and get on with living life”.

We seem to have about 30 dying every day in Victoria, which sounds a lot compared to the earlier outbreaks.

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Buy a man eat fish. The Day, Teach Man, to lifetime.      - Joe Biden.

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8 minutes ago, Parley said:

We seem to have about 30 dying every day in Victoria, which sounds a lot compared to the earlier outbreaks.

More infections translates to more deaths regardless of how innocuous it is to the majority. The danger of Omicron. It might seem minuscule but that’s why it has to be contained and managed through the vaccination programme and other measures. Those 30 were someone’s loved one. The more preventative measures we can put in place the less people lose their lives. 

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Glenn Wheatley (Little River Band) died a couple of days ago due to health complications caused by Covid.  He was 74.

 

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3 minutes ago, Toots said:

Glenn Wheatley (Little River Band) died a couple of days ago due to health complications caused by Covid.  He was 74.

 

Masters Apprentices 

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59 minutes ago, Toots said:

Glenn Wheatley (Little River Band) died a couple of days ago due to health complications caused by Covid.  He was 74.

 

Did it happen where you are?

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Why do people keep calling the COVID-19 vaccines by the name of the manufacturer rather than the vaccine name? Comirnaty is only one of the vaccines that Pfizer makes - there's also PREVNAR 13 and PREVNAR 20 against Pneumococcal, TICOVAC against Tick-Borne Encephalitis and TRUMENBA against Meningococcal Group B. They are all Pfizer vaccines but it does make a difference which one you get (although I suppose the anti-vacs nutters think they all insert the same tracking device)!

Similarly the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine is named Vaxzevria and not to be confused with the AstraZeneca Flu vaccine. 


Chartered Accountant (England & Wales); Registered Tax Agent & Fellow of The Tax Institute (Australia) www.kbfayers.com

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4 minutes ago, Ken said:

Similarly the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine is named Vaxzevria and not to be confused with the AstraZeneca Flu vaccine. 

That one has been discredited. I don't think any country uses it anymore

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Buy a man eat fish. The Day, Teach Man, to lifetime.      - Joe Biden.

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