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Australian and UK Covid Responses

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On 09/06/2021 at 18:32, Marisawright said:

...but at this stage, there is no actual evidence that it's  been genetically modified.

But there is "evidence"! 

There's at least 3 in this thread that have believed it with their own eyesūü§£

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With reference to feeling different about a death after taking AstraZeneca if it were someone you knew, there was an interview on the BBC news with the sister of someone who died from a blood clot in the UK.  She acknowledged her brother was extremely unlucky but urged people not to be put off getting the jab.

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2 hours ago, MacGyver said:

I‚Äôve noticed across social media that many of those who were comfortable letting Covid into Australian because ‚Äúit‚Äôs just like flu, only a few thousand vulnerable people will die‚ÄĚ are the same ones criticising AstraZeneca because it has (very sadly) caused a single death in Australia. I am unsure if it is linked to political affiliations/discussion groups, specific¬†news sources, or because the ‚Äúvulnerable‚ÄĚ group now encapsulates them instead of someone else.¬†

a single death ? There have been at least 3 I am aware of.


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2 hours ago, MacGyver said:

I‚Äôve noticed across social media that many of those who were comfortable letting Covid into Australian because ‚Äúit‚Äôs just like flu, only a few thousand vulnerable people will die‚ÄĚ are the same ones criticising AstraZeneca because it has (very sadly) caused a single death in Australia. I am unsure if it is linked to political affiliations/discussion groups, specific¬†news sources, or because the ‚Äúvulnerable‚ÄĚ group now encapsulates them instead of someone else.¬†

'Skin in the game Syndrome '?

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3 hours ago, Parley said:

a single death ? There have been at least 3 I am aware of.

I had not read about other deaths in Australia directly linked to AstraZeneca, but I’m happy to be corrected on those numbers if I’ve missed it. The point linked to my previous post remains the same though if 3 people have sadly died instead of 1.


:evilface_frowning_s

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19 hours ago, Rallyman said:

The e mails have been produced , the money chain is there as has been discussed by a sub committee of congress 

Fauci was getting very hot under the collar with some very telling questions being asked  a couple of days ago. 
let’s not mention his e mail sent back in 2012 

https://nypost.com/2021/06/03/fauci-emails-prove-he-knew-of-wuhan-research-sen-paul/

That link doesn't say anything.

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Nearly there! Don't drop the ball now guys! Vaccines are weeks away. Stay safe!

 

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7 hours ago, MacGyver said:

I had not read about other deaths in Australia directly linked to AstraZeneca, but I’m happy to be corrected on those numbers if I’ve missed it. The point linked to my previous post remains the same though if 3 people have sadly died instead of 1.

Actually I think in the last 6 months in Australia there have been more deaths from the vaccination than from the disease.

But I will be getting vaccinated by the end of the year as will most people in Australia.

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15 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

I think we do care and it certainly makes us think.  The thing is where do you stop.  Almost every medical procedure/medication you have done has a tiny risk. Even a tooth extraction does.  We have to balance the risk.  People drop dead running marathons, do you suggest no one takes up running. Sports like cycle racing/formula one, they crash and die. Skiing, swimming (people have drowned from cramp)  I saw on tv the other day a guy in his 60’s was playing tennis and collapsed.  He was rushed to hospital with a heart rate of over 240.  He’d have died very quickly so his heart had to be shocked twice.  He’s fine now but should no one take up tennis or perhaps no one should have a leisurely game about over 60.  Today where you are and were I am people will die on the roads.  Should we stop driving.  It’s completely your choice and I’ve said before, I understand people’s reluctance there because the numbers are so low. People here have chosen not to have the jab and have paid with their life.  Again, it was their choice.  Covid itself gives you a seven times more chance of clots than the jab let alone all the other things it gives.  It’s ok for you to not get AZ and it’s ok to make your choice because of the clot risk. You do seem a tad obsessed with AZ and it’s poor performance and clot risk.  Sadly a tiny tiny percentage of people have lost their lives with a clot and I do care about that but my focus is mainly on the great many lives the jab has saved and continues to save. We’d be in a pretty dire mess here without the vaccine, there was nothing else to save us.  The main thing to worry about is if it kicks off there those unvaccinated will wait about two months before they reach descent protection.  Nothing wrong with you choosing to take your chances with that and nothing wrong with people deciding to get AZ right now.  It’s all good but please don’t think people are wrong to get it.  They are making a choice to take that minimal risk to stay safe and keep others safe too.   

Thought this was a good post but just wanted to highlight this part in particular.  

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Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain but it takes character and self control to be understanding and forgiving.

Dale Carnegie ‚Äď 1888-1955, Author and Lecturer

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24 minutes ago, Parley said:

Actually I think in the last 6 months in Australia there have been more deaths from the vaccination than from the disease.

But I will be getting vaccinated by the end of the year as will most people in Australia.

That's true.  If you're basing your decision on how much Covid there is in Australia right now, of course it doesn't balance out.  If there's an outbreak that gets out of control, the balance will be different but it will be too late to get the vaccine then.

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Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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21 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

That's true.  If you're basing your decision on how much Covid there is in Australia right now, of course it doesn't balance out.  If there's an outbreak that gets out of control, the balance will be different but it will be too late to get the vaccine then.

Read this article and then the comments from over 50s at the bottom. This is how i feel too.

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/astrazeneca-still-vaccine-of-choice-for-over-50s-after-second-death-20210610-p57zxp.html#comments

 


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14 minutes ago, Parley said:

Read this article and then the comments from over 50s at the bottom. This is how i feel too.

 

I understand that.  I've said, several times, that the government made a stupid mistake in concentrating most of its efforts on the Astra Zeneca vaccine.  Epidemiologists were shouting for them not to put all their eggs in one basket and were ignored.  But it's what we've got and there's nothing we can do about it now:  the earliest we can get a decent supply of Pfizer is October and Moderna, next year.  We should certainly give them a hard time about it, but we've got to deal with reality.

If you haven't already, take a browse through all the exposure sites on the Victorian Government's website.  I visited many of the places on the list.  Not on the days/times in question, thankfully, but in some cases I missed it by that much.   So I dodged a bullet this time.  I might not dodge the bullet next time.  And there WILL be a next time because, as every epidemiologist is now telling us, hotel quarantine is leaky.

Edited by Marisawright
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Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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1 minute ago, Marisawright said:

I understand that.  I've said, several times, that the government made a stupid mistake in concentrating most of its efforts on the Astra Zeneca vaccine.  Epidemiologists were shouting for them not to put all their eggs in one basket and were ignored.  But it's what we've got and there's nothing we can do about it now:  the earliest we can get a decent supply of Pfizer is October and Moderna, next year.  We should certainly give them a hard time about it, but we've got to deal with reality.

If you haven't already, take a browse through all the exposure sites on the Victorian Government's website.  I visited many of the places on the list.  Not on the days/times in question, thankfully, but in some cases I missed it by that much.   So I dodged a bullet this time.  I might not dodge the bullet next time.  And there WILL be a next time because, as every epidemiologist is now telling us, hotel quarantine is leaky.

Victoria has managed it well. No new cases today. And the only covid related deaths are from the vaccine.

The country will continue to manage outbreaks for the next year. In 6 months time there will be enough Pfizer for everyone.

Catching covid does not mean you are going to die Marisa. As Scott Morrison said for most people it is a mild disease. For 2% it can be very serious

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I want it all, and I want it now.

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28 minutes ago, Parley said:

Victoria has managed it well. No new cases today. And the only covid related deaths are from the vaccine.

The country will continue to manage outbreaks for the next year. In 6 months time there will be enough Pfizer for everyone.

Catching covid does not mean you are going to die Marisa. As Scott Morrison said for most people it is a mild disease. For 2% it can be very serious

Fair enough, that's your assessment and you're entitled to make it.  Just remember how you felt when this current outbreak started, realising you were at risk and it was too late to get the vaccine. Yes, they got on top of it this time - what if they don't next time?   Maybe I have less confidence in governments than you do. But like I say, your call.

ScoMo is right that it's a mild disease for most, but that 2% is an average.  The risk is infinitesimal for a young person and rises with age.  For those over 70, the risk is more like 10%,.  I'm not 70 yet, but I'm on the wrong side of 65. 

Besides, I'm far more afraid of Long Covid than I am of dying.  I've seen first-hand how impaired lung function or impaired heart function can destroy quality of life in old age, and I don't want to go there. It's not clear what percentage are affected by that because it's all too new. It's certainly a lot more than 2%, especially in the older age group.  

https://heavy.com/news/long-covid/

Edited by Marisawright
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Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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I think one of reasons that people are slow for the uptake is that until international travel opens up both ways in and out   People will take their time . 
when we do open be prepared for far higher numbers both in covid and flu ,

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17 minutes ago, Rallyman said:

I think one of reasons that people are slow for the uptake is that until international travel opens up both ways in and out   People will take their time . 
when we do open be prepared for far higher numbers both in covid and flu ,

That's what I'm saying.   When Pfizer becomes available in October, there will be a huge rush to get it, which the vaccination centres won't be able to cope with, so people who thought, "I'll get it in October" will find themselves still waiting in November or December


Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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2 hours ago, Parley said:

The country will continue to manage outbreaks for the next year. ÔĽŅ

How, by locking down and keeping borders shut?¬†ūüôĄ

The people who are waiting until the end of the year for their vaccination are actively undermining efforts to extract Australia from this situation.

Go get in the queue and do your bit.

 

Edited by unzippy
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21 minutes ago, unzippy said:

How, by locking down and keeping borders shut?¬†ūüôĄ

 

Yes.


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1 hour ago, unzippy said:

How, by locking down and keeping borders shut?¬†ūüôĄ

The people who are waiting until the end of the year for their vaccination are actively undermining efforts to extract Australia from this situation.

Go get in the queue and do your bit.

 

Why should they help with opening the border if they don't care about it, or worse what if they'd prefer to keep it closed?

Australian voters have time and again reaffirmed the Coalition's policies on immigration so it's not clear that they would prefer to open up the borders as soon as possible.

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19 minutes ago, rtritudr said:

Why should they help with opening the border if they don't care about it, or worse what if they'd prefer to keep it closed?

Australian voters have time and again reaffirmed the Coalition's policies on immigration so it's not clear that they would prefer to open up the borders as soon as possible.

I don't think it is a matter of not caring about it. But in the middle of a global pandemic it would be very foolish to rush to opening them too soon.

The world needs to get on top of Covid first so I expect 18 months to 2 years is a reasonable timeframe to aim for.


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5 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Fair enough, that's your assessment and you're entitled to make it.  Just remember how you felt when this current outbreak started, realising you were at risk and it was too late to get the vaccine. Yes, they got on top of it this time - what if they don't next time?   Maybe I have less confidence in governments than you do. But like I say, your call.

ScoMo is right that it's a mild disease for most, but that 2% is an average.  The risk is infinitesimal for a young person and rises with age.  For those over 70, the risk is more like 10%,.  I'm not 70 yet, but I'm on the wrong side of 65. 

Besides, I'm far more afraid of Long Covid than I am of dying.  I've seen first-hand how impaired lung function or impaired heart function can destroy quality of life in old age, and I don't want to go there. It's not clear what percentage are affected by that because it's all too new. It's certainly a lot more than 2%, especially in the older age group.  

https://heavy.com/news/long-covid/

There is possibly something else you need to worry about. There isn't much press on it, but I have a friend who has it, and her GP says they are seeing more cases of it.

It seems to happen when someone who has had covid takes the vaccine. It's like a long covid caused by the vaccine, but it only happens in people who previously have had covid.

My friend has been ill for six weeks now. Very tired, ME type symptoms. It is better if you don't catch covid.

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Nearly there! Don't drop the ball now guys! Vaccines are weeks away. Stay safe!

 

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5 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Fair enough, that's your assessment and you're entitled to make it.  Just remember how you felt when this current outbreak started, realising you were at risk and it was too late to get the vaccine. Yes, they got on top of it this time - what if they don't next time?   Maybe I have less confidence in governments than you do. But like I say, your call.

ScoMo is right that it's a mild disease for most, but that 2% is an average.  The risk is infinitesimal for a young person and rises with age.  For those over 70, the risk is more like 10%,.  I'm not 70 yet, but I'm on the wrong side of 65. 

Besides, I'm far more afraid of Long Covid than I am of dying.  I've seen first-hand how impaired lung function or impaired heart function can destroy quality of life in old age, and I don't want to go there. It's not clear what percentage are affected by that because it's all too new. It's certainly a lot more than 2%, especially in the older age group.  

https://heavy.com/news/long-covid/

Long Covid is very real and scary and more and more about it is coming out. I spoke to a neighbour the other day and his brother had Covid last October.  The brother is late 40’s fit and heathy but it hit him hard. A few weeks afterwards though he started feeling a bit better day after day and thought thank god I’m through that. That feeling a bit better never got to feeling properly ok though and eight months on he has long Covid. He’s still very short of breath, lungs quite knackered, he’s a different person than the one he was.  Doctors can’t tell him if he will ever make a full recovery, they just don’t know.  My neighbour said his brother was very fit and healthy, did lots of sports, ate well, didn’t smoke etc.  Covid takes prisoners from all walks of life although of course the younger you are the less change of a bad outcome.  The 2% chance of dying is low although far higher than the chance of dying of a clot.  That 2% would  be higher if it was measuring those that survived but are impaired, people like my neighbours brother aren’t measured but are real.  I have spoken to several over the last year with long Covid,  it’s not nice.  One I see regularly sounds like they have late stage COPD.  They haven’t, they have long Covid. They cannot even finish a sentence without a gasp.   For me, I feel grateful to have been double jabbed.  Even if I was to catch Covid which is very unlikely, I’d get a far milder illness.  I see Israel are doing more testing into Pfizer and heart related side effects. I’ve not read much into it as it doesn’t effect me but I don’t think any vaccine will come out of this as perfect, time will tell.  It is all about choice for people though, I respect that. 

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1 hour ago, Tulip1 said:

Long Covid is very real and scary and more and more about it is coming out. I spoke to a neighbour the other day and his brother had Covid last October.  The brother is late 40’s fit and heathy but it hit him hard. A few weeks afterwards though he started feeling a bit better day after day and thought thank god I’m through that. That feeling a bit better never got to feeling properly ok though and eight months on he has long Covid. He’s still very short of breath, lungs quite knackered, he’s a different person than the one he was.  Doctors can’t tell him if he will ever make a full recovery, they just don’t know.  My neighbour said his brother was very fit and healthy, did lots of sports, ate well, didn’t smoke etc.  Covid takes prisoners from all walks of life although of course the younger you are the less change of a bad outcome.  The 2% chance of dying is low although far higher than the chance of dying of a clot.  That 2% would  be higher if it was measuring those that survived but are impaired, people like my neighbours brother aren’t measured but are real.  I have spoken to several over the last year with long Covid,  it’s not nice.  One I see regularly sounds like they have late stage COPD.  They haven’t, they have long Covid. They cannot even finish a sentence without a gasp.   For me, I feel grateful to have been double jabbed.  Even if I was to catch Covid which is very unlikely, I’d get a far milder illness.  I see Israel are doing more testing into Pfizer and heart related side effects. I’ve not read much into it as it doesn’t effect me but I don’t think any vaccine will come out of this as perfect, time will tell.  It is all about choice for people though, I respect that. 

A friend of mine in her 70’s had her 2nd Pfizer jab last week. She had few side affects from the first, but was laid low and stayed in bed for 2 days with a high temperature and very bad headache. She is not someone who would normally give in to staying in bed, and hardly ever gets headaches. So there are side effects from the Pfizer just not made very public.

Edited by ramot
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2 minutes ago, ramot said:

A friend of mine in her 70’s had her 2nd Pfizer jab last week. She had few side affects from the first, but was laid low and stayed in bed for 2 days with a high temperature and very bad headache. She is not someone who would normally give in to staying in bed, and hardly ever gets headaches. So there are side effects from the Pfizer just not made very public.

You're not eligible to get Pfizer if you are over 50.


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12 minutes ago, Parley said:

You're not eligible to get Pfizer if you are over 50.

You are wrong. You are eligible and advised to have the Pfizer jab If you have had certain health conditions.  so please don’t post untrue facts. Makes me look like a liar.

Edited by ramot
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