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Australian and UK Covid Responses

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54 minutes ago, newjez said:

We're not.

Europe cases rise graphic

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That chart is old. Germany is now much higher.   

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On 22/11/2021 at 17:11, HappyHeart said:

No one was forced. Watch Jacqui Lambie’s excellent speech today for clarification on choices, consequences and responsibilities. 

Sorry but Lambie did not make a speech..... it was a rant.... that woman has always been a bit off the rails, and that rant just reinforced what so many think about her, that she has mental health issues.

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......Just trying to be helpful so don't shoot me down if my personal views do not coincide with yours! :animal-dog:

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On 22/11/2021 at 17:11, HappyHeart said:

No one was forced. Watch Jacqui Lambie’s excellent speech today for clarification on choices, consequences and responsibilities. 

Rubbish!   So very many were forced/coerced/blackmailed to have the jab or lose their job.   The reason why the numbers of vacinated is so high all throughout Australia is because people had no alternative if they wanted to keep their job and provide for their family.  

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......Just trying to be helpful so don't shoot me down if my personal views do not coincide with yours! :animal-dog:

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1 hour ago, Rossmoyne said:

Rubbish!   So very many were forced/coerced/blackmailed to have the jab or lose their job.   The reason why the numbers of vacinated is so high all throughout Australia is because people had no alternative if they wanted to keep their job and provide for their family.  

I’d be interested to see stats around this if they’re ever released. I’m not challenging your comment because I don’t know the figures, but my hunch has always been that a huge majority sought vaccination because Australia is generally a country of rule followers. My feeling was that maybe 5-10% jumped on board due to employment rules but that’s not based on any data I’ve seen anywhere and just personal opinion.

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:evilface_frowning_s

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11 hours ago, simmo said:

Why the UK is doing better than the EU. 

 

The satire is strong with this one.

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British  | Lived in Australia 2001-02 on 457   | Married Aussie wife & moved back to UK | Plan to return to Sydney 2026 when all kids have finished school

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On 23/11/2021 at 12:26, simmo said:

Hospital-211122.jpg

Adding these figures up we find that 3,200 of 9,831 or 33% of Covid hospitalisations are in the unvaccinated, leaving 67% in those who are vaccinated, most of them with two doses. Focusing just on adults, we find 2,692 of 9,278 or 29% of Covid hospitalisations are unvaccinated, leaving 71% in the vaccinated. Seeing as just 68% of the U.K. population is double vaccinated, 67% of hospitalisations being in those who have received at least one dose hardly seems like a strong result. Indeed, it suggests the unvaccinated are barely over-represented in hospitals at all.

 

 

A contemptible twisting of facts.   Rather that produce table 6 in the report which actually shows the data they "calculate", they obfuscate the facts by deliberately confusing the calculation.  But it's right there in the report, as clear as day a few pages below!

image.png.26d64633a1cbb46308675c26752794a1.png

The people who write this crap are despicable.  They knowingly choose to spread misinformation because they know that creating division in society sells.  They couldn't care less if their falsehoods create injury or death to their customers and fellow countrymen so long as it puts money in their pocket.   

Edited by FirstWorldProblems
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British  | Lived in Australia 2001-02 on 457   | Married Aussie wife & moved back to UK | Plan to return to Sydney 2026 when all kids have finished school

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There’s a lot of talk on here about the UK double vaccinated percentage (as at 1st Nov between 83.5% - 89.8% of adults)  In terms of protection though it’s far higher than the vaccine figures.  Experts are all in agreement that having Covid gives at least as much protection as the vaccines and for a similar amount of time.  Based on the fact millions in the UK have had Covid and continue to get it, the percentage figures above are really higher (in terms of protection whether from jabs or Covid).  I’ve no idea what percentage of protected adults that would equate to but it’s got to be around 90% (at least)  Still a lot catching Covid here but I think many are now vaccinated and just getting a mild dose.  My niece (early 30’s, healthy and double jabbed) tested positive 11 days ago.  She had a slight sore throat and a bit of a headache.  Didn’t think for a minute she had Covid but did a lateral test at home just to be sure.  It showed positive so she did a PCR test which also showed positive.  She’s just fine and neither her husband or two children (one only 5 so not jabbed) caught it off her.  She had also spent many hours in her parents house the day before the positive test and neither of them have tested positive.  Also seen several friends up to the positive test and not one of them caught it.  They say it’s mild and not as transmittable if you get it when double jabbed and that must be true.    

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16 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

There’s a lot of talk on here about the UK double vaccinated percentage (as at 1st Nov between 83.5% - 89.8% of adults)  

Not arguing with your point here which I think has merit. But I think it’s worth noting that the spotlight on adults skews the overall low percentage at the population level.  

45.7m people in the U.K. are double vaccinated.   There are 67.2m people. That’s 68%.   Compared with Ireland’s 80% and Australia’s 76.3% that feels low

 

 

Edited by FirstWorldProblems

British  | Lived in Australia 2001-02 on 457   | Married Aussie wife & moved back to UK | Plan to return to Sydney 2026 when all kids have finished school

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18 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

There’s a lot of talk on here about the UK double vaccinated percentage (as at 1st Nov between 83.5% - 89.8% of adults)  In terms of protection though it’s far higher than the vaccine figures.  Experts are all in agreement that having Covid gives at least as much protection as the vaccines and for a similar amount of time.  Based on the fact millions in the UK have had Covid and continue to get it, the percentage figures above are really higher (in terms of protection whether from jabs or Covid).  I’ve no idea what percentage of protected adults that would equate to but it’s got to be around 90% (at least)  Still a lot catching Covid here but I think many are now vaccinated and just getting a mild dose.  My niece (early 30’s, healthy and double jabbed) tested positive 11 days ago.  She had a slight sore throat and a bit of a headache.  Didn’t think for a minute she had Covid but did a lateral test at home just to be sure.  It showed positive so she did a PCR test which also showed positive.  She’s just fine and neither her husband or two children (one only 5 so not jabbed) caught it off her.  She had also spent many hours in her parents house the day before the positive test and neither of them have tested positive.  Also seen several friends up to the positive test and not one of them caught it.  They say it’s mild and not as transmittable if you get it when double jabbed and that must be true.    

That's not correct, and they don't.  Antibodies created from vaccination give the body more protection than those found in somebody previously infected and not vaccinated, who show a lower level of natural immunity.  Obviously, it's also far safer to get the vaccine rather than risk getting covid just to create some natural immunity.

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/why-covid-19-vaccines-offer-better-protection-than-infection

The rest of your post is anecdotal, and if you replicate that information millions of time across families just like yours, you can see the problem for scientists trying to sort out what is true, what is untrue, and what is currently not explainable or understood.  But it all supplies some level of data for analysis.

There are some very recent studies, not yet peer-reviewed, that suggest what you say might be true, but experts definitely are not all in agreement.   This is probably the best article i've read on the subject but again, it is clear on the danger of drawing false conclusions and taking unneccessary risk.

https://theconversation.com/covid-infections-may-give-more-potent-immunity-than-vaccines-but-that-doesnt-mean-you-should-try-to-catch-it-167122

The most intriguing suggestion from this is that there ARE demonstrable differences in immunity levels of vaccinated people who have previously been infected with covid.  The answer is still the same though...whatever the circumstance, just get vaccinated.

Quote

The Israeli preprint does, however, shed light on our increasing understanding of the potent immunity induced by getting the vaccine after having COVID – so-called hybrid immunity. Several studies show a substantial boost in both antibody and T-cell responses to vaccine in people with previous COVID infection.

A recent report from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention showed that people who’d recovered from COVID and were later vaccinated had half the risk of reinfection compared with unvaccinated people who’d previously had COVID. So it’s still worth getting the vaccine, even if you have previously had COVID.

The effective immune booster following the combination of natural immunity and a single subsequent vaccine jab also raises the question of whether one dose is enough for people who have had COVID. Several studies report that immune responses to a single dose of either the Pfizer or AstraZeneca vaccine exceed those after two doses in people without prior infection.

Several countries, such as France, Italy and Germany, therefore now recommend a single dose for people with a previous COVID infection

 

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41 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

There’s a lot of talk on here about the UK double vaccinated percentage (as at 1st Nov between 83.5% - 89.8% of adults)  In terms of protection though it’s far higher than the vaccine figures.  

The other point to say is that the UK made a big thing about "herd immunity", which they have never got anywhere near at a level of 67% vaccination.   Israel has not reached herd immunity and they are the leaders of max vaccination.  So to prove that herd immunity is possible, somebody has to do better then Israel.  And then it still might not be achievable.

 

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6 hours ago, Rossmoyne said:

Rubbish!   So very many were forced/coerced/blackmailed to have the jab TO STOP THEM FROM POTENTIALLY KILLING OTHER PEOPLE or lose their job.   The reason why the numbers of vacinated is so high all throughout Australia is because people had no alternative if they wanted to keep their job and provide for their family.  

only in jobs where they come into contact with large numbers of people, or vulnerable people.  You don't need the vaccine if you're self-employed and not contracting to an organisation, work as a gardener, road sweeper, web designer, home worker...there are millions upon millions of jobs where you are not mandated to be vaccinated. 

So that doesn't explain why the vaccination figures are going to well over 95% in most states.   More likely, there is always a proportion of society who will whinge about anything and try to do the opposite to what is good for them, just because they can.

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4 minutes ago, Robert Dyson said:

So that doesn't explain why the vaccination figures are going to well over 95% in most states.   More likely, there is always a proportion of society who will whinge about anything and try to do the opposite to what is good for them, just because they can.

Not to mention those easily manipulated by the outrage merchants who see division in society to sell their product. 
 

Imagine being so gullible as to let such people manipulate you into harming yourself and turning against your fellow countrymen.

*cough* brexit   *cough*

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British  | Lived in Australia 2001-02 on 457   | Married Aussie wife & moved back to UK | Plan to return to Sydney 2026 when all kids have finished school

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4 hours ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

Not to mention those easily manipulated by the outrage merchants who see division in society to sell their product. 
 

Imagine being so gullible as to let such people manipulate you into harming yourself and turning against your fellow countrymen.

*cough* brexit   *cough*

The biggest con job in British modern history, now they’re penny pinching with social care and yet again the poorest in society lose out 

Edited by HappyHeart
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6 hours ago, Robert Dyson said:

only in jobs where they come into contact with large numbers of people, or vulnerable people.  You don't need the vaccine if you're self-employed and not contracting to an organisation, work as a gardener, road sweeper, web designer, home worker...there are millions upon millions of jobs where you are not mandated to be vaccinated. 

So that doesn't explain why the vaccination figures are going to well over 95% in most states.   More likely, there is always a proportion of society who will whinge about anything and try to do the opposite to what is good for them, just because they can.

People who aren't vaccinated in theory can only go into essential retail outlets like supermarkets, chemists etc. They are barred from many activities so there is that pressure to be vaccinated if they want to have much of a life.

Mind you some experts are saying now we are at 90% fully vaccinated these restrictions should stop. 

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Buy a man eat fish. The Day, Teach Man, to lifetime.      - Joe Biden.

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On 23/11/2021 at 12:26, simmo said:

and also debunked.

The most frustrating thing about this anonymously written article is it doesn’t cite any data even though its arguments are based on claims which only data can validate. It consists instead only of a medic’s subjective impressions, with no sources provided by which we might be able to check out whether what is being said holds water.

Are the hospitalised mostly unvaccinated? Not according to Government data from the UKHSA. Here is the breakdown of hospitalisations by vaccination status in England for the four weeks up to November 14th from the latest Vaccine Surveillance report.

Hospital-211122.jpg

Adding these figures up we find that 3,200 of 9,831 or 33% of Covid hospitalisations are in the unvaccinated, leaving 67% in those who are vaccinated, most of them with two doses. Focusing just on adults, we find 2,692 of 9,278 or 29% of Covid hospitalisations are unvaccinated, leaving 71% in the vaccinated. Seeing as just 68% of the U.K. population is double vaccinated, 67% of hospitalisations being in those who have received at least one dose hardly seems like a strong result. Indeed, it suggests the unvaccinated are barely over-represented in hospitals at all.

 

https://dailysceptic.org/2021/11/23/guardian-article-claims-covid-has-largely-become-a-disease-of-the-unvaccinated-in-hospitals-yet-data-shows-71-of-hospitalised-adults-are-vaccinated/

Well.... not really.

The article quoted ICUs, where your article is just looking at hospital admission.

Being in ICU is very different to just being in hospital.


Nearly there! Don't drop the ball now guys! Vaccines are weeks away. Stay safe!

 

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14 hours ago, simmo said:

Europe cases rise graphic

And...Austria and Netherlands are relatively small areas in Europe. Which for the last six months, have been consistently lower than the UK.


Nearly there! Don't drop the ball now guys! Vaccines are weeks away. Stay safe!

 

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14 hours ago, simmo said:

That chart is old. Germany is now much higher.   

UK infection rates are still above the EU. Considering the UK is a much more advanced country than many EU countries, that is surprising.


Nearly there! Don't drop the ball now guys! Vaccines are weeks away. Stay safe!

 

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Screenshot_20211125-054642_Chrome.jpg

Gibraltar is 118% vacinated BTW

Edited by simmo

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If true this is not right.

 

 

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It has come to light that more people died in the Pfizer vaccine trial than the company originally reported.

 

 

Screenshot_20211125-185258_Chrome.jpg

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New Covid strain of real concern found in Africa.  As of noon tomorrow, six African countries on the UK red list. 
 

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3 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

New Covid strain of real concern found in Africa.  As of noon tomorrow, six African countries on the UK red list. 
 

Yes. I was just reading about that over my morning coffee. Called the Nu strain.

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Buy a man eat fish. The Day, Teach Man, to lifetime.      - Joe Biden.

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On 24/11/2021 at 20:57, Rossmoyne said:

Sorry but Lambie did not make a speech..... it was a rant.... that woman has always been a bit off the rails, and that rant just reinforced what so many think about her, that she has mental health issues.

So if a woman gets angry she's mentally ill? For real?

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