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Australian and UK Covid Responses

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22 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

I was reading an article about that yesterday.   It's not true to say that Covid will always be a mild illness in a vaccinated person.  For people with serious pre-existing health problems, even a mild infection can be fatal.   Also, protection is waning now in the UK because for a lot of people, it's been six months since their second dose.  

In the Downing Street conference today, they couldn’t stress enough the importance of getting your booster six months after your second jab.  They made a big point of saying the vaccines are by far the best we have to fight it so everyone must get there’s.  

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8 hours ago, Marisawright said:

I was reading an article about that yesterday.   It's not true to say that Covid will always be a mild illness in a vaccinated person.  For people with serious pre-existing health problems, even a mild infection can be fatal.   Also, protection is waning now in the UK because for a lot of people, it's been six months since their second dose.  

exactly.  Older people sometimes don't take well to vaccines due to natural physiological changes with age, plus there is more chance of them having a compromised immune system due to other health issues or medications.

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23 hours ago, Robert Dyson said:

UK 7 day rolling trend figures : 49,134 cases yesterday (up 17.2%), 954 deaths (up 21.2.4%), hospital admittance 6,074 (up 11.2%).

UK 7 day rolling trend figures 52,009 cases yesterday (up 17.9%) , 912 deaths weekly (up 10.8%), hospital admittance 6315 weekly (up 15.4%)

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19 hours ago, Robert Dyson said:

UK 7 day rolling trend figures 52,009 cases yesterday (up 17.9%) , 912 deaths weekly (up 10.8%), hospital admittance 6315 weekly (up 15.4%)

Well we are certainly going to have the opportunity to compare "Australia and UK Covid Responses", per the name of this thread.

A direct comparison of  "freedom day" when at 67% double vaxxed or 80% double vaxxed.  We now know that the former has been a complete and utter cluster f*(£. Hopefully the latter will fare much better.  I certainly wish them every success as this will influence the model for future pandemics.

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7 hours ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

Well we are certainly going to have the opportunity to compare "Australia and UK Covid Responses", per the name of this thread.

A direct comparison of  "freedom day" when at 67% double vaxxed or 80% double vaxxed.  We now know that the former has been a complete and utter cluster f*(£. Hopefully the latter will fare much better.  I certainly wish them every success as this will influence the model for future pandemics.

912 death a week is a lot of it is preventable. But i googled and normally in UK 500,000 die per year, 1400 per day or so.

I don;t know whether these numbers are bad or not. Like Yesterday in Victoria we had 12 deaths from Covid in a state of 6M people.


Buy a man eat fish. The Day, Teach Man, to lifetime.      - Joe Biden.

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5 minutes ago, Parley said:

912 death a week is a lot of it is preventable.

What we really need to know is how many of these were unvaccinated. Are any such figures provided?

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11 minutes ago, DIG85 said:

What we really need to know is how many of these were unvaccinated. Are any such figures provided?

Yes true. In Australia we are moving to a type of lockdown of the unvaccinated. People who chose not to get vaccinated will be prevented from many activities. Harsh on them but they are at great risk as they will catch covid from vaccinated people.


Buy a man eat fish. The Day, Teach Man, to lifetime.      - Joe Biden.

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1 hour ago, DIG85 said:

What we really need to know is how many of these were unvaccinated. Are any such figures provided?

Yes. But how about the vast numbers that have been and have not vaccinated , that suffer from ongoing disability resulting from the  virus? Those that cannot keep down a job. Chronic Fatigue Syndrome , on going raspatory issues , kidney problems and so on. I'm not hearing much mentioned about these people. 

 

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1 hour ago, Blue Flu said:

Yes. But how about the vast numbers that have been and have not vaccinated , that suffer from ongoing disability resulting from the  virus? Those that cannot keep down a job. Chronic Fatigue Syndrome , on going raspatory issues , kidney problems and so on. I'm not hearing much mentioned about these people. 

these are the ones that are dying, plus the unnecessarily overweight and obese who did not class themselves as having an "underlying health condition", despite the evidence that they have been hit hardest by cytokine storms due to having high carb diets and provoking very high inflammatory responses where their own bodies kill themselves through trying to get rid of covid, or else end up with organ failures and lifelong disabilities.

 

Edited by Robert Dyson
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5 hours ago, Parley said:

912 death a week is a lot of it is preventable. But i googled and normally in UK 500,000 die per year, 1400 per day or so.

Yes, and I guess this is the British government's attitude.   An extra 1,000 a week or so, on top of the 10,000 or so that happen every week anyway, is "acceptable". 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1111804/weekly-deaths-in-england-and-wales/

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46 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Yes, and I guess this is the British government's attitude.   An extra 1,000 a week or so, on top of the 10,000 or so that happen every week anyway, is "acceptable". 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1111804/weekly-deaths-in-england-and-wales/

We don't know if it is on top though, or just a subset. 


Buy a man eat fish. The Day, Teach Man, to lifetime.      - Joe Biden.

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45 minutes ago, Parley said:

We don't know if it is on top though, or just a subset. 

During lockdowns, other infectious diseases were less common and also people were travelling less, so that helped offset COVID deaths. 

Now people are behaving more or less normally, it would be back to more or less normal, and COVID deaths would be extra


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37 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

During lockdowns, other infectious diseases were less common and also people were travelling less, so that helped offset COVID deaths. 

Now people are behaving more or less normally, it would be back to more or less normal, and COVID deaths would be extra

Not necessarily. People who are very old and/or have serious health issues like cancer tend to die.

Eg Colin Powell had multiple myeloma and died aged 84.

He was double vaccinated and supposedly died of covid.


Buy a man eat fish. The Day, Teach Man, to lifetime.      - Joe Biden.

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4 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Yes, and I guess this is the British government's attitude.   An extra 1,000 a week or so, on top of the 10,000 or so that happen every week anyway, is "acceptable". 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1111804/weekly-deaths-in-england-and-wales/

Purely collateral damage if numbers can be kept to a certain level. The price to save the economy. If it works remains to be seen. I see one  of the star countries, Singapore is in a degree of trouble. 

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7 hours ago, Robert Dyson said:

these are the ones that are dying, plus the unnecessarily overweight and obese who did not class themselves as having an "underlying health condition", despite the evidence that they have been hit hardest by cytokine storms due to having high carb diets and provoking very high inflammatory responses where their own bodies kill themselves through trying to get rid of covid, or else end up with organ failures and lifelong disabilities.

 

Actually  many are enduring ongoing illness. A number previously fit and not old. 

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12 hours ago, DIG85 said:

What we really need to know is how many of these were unvaccinated. Are any such figures provided?

Public Health England publish a weekly report which gives a rolling 4 week overview of all sorts of things broken down by vaccination status, including cases/hospitalisations/deaths.

COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report - week 42 (publishing.service.gov.uk)

There's loads of stuff in it, but you can just scroll down to the tables for a quick breakdown of numbers.

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2 hours ago, Blue Flu said:

Actually  many are enduring ongoing illness. A number previously fit and not old. 

That's sort of what i meant by lifelong disabilities.  A susceptibility to illness that was previously unacknowledged by people thinking they were fit, but have been proven now to have metabolic syndrome.  You can perhaps solve that, but you may not be able to solve the damage that covid does because of it.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/landia/article/PIIS2213-8587(21)00244-8/fulltext

 

Edited by Robert Dyson
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6 hours ago, Marisawright said:

During lockdowns, other infectious diseases were less common and also people were travelling less, so that helped offset COVID deaths. 

Now people are behaving more or less normally, it would be back to more or less normal, and COVID deaths would be extra

From memory excess deaths for the last few weeks have been around 1600 a week, compared to the previous 5 year average. Around half are Covid related.

 

Anecdotally, lots of people couldn't get diagnosed with serious conditions last year as they couldn't get to see a GP.  So, lots of late diagnosis of cancers etc.

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22 hours ago, Cobs_Ahoy said:

Public Health England publish a weekly report which gives a rolling 4 week overview of all sorts of things broken down by vaccination status, including cases/hospitalisations/deaths.

COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report - week 42 (publishing.service.gov.uk)

There's loads of stuff in it, but you can just scroll down to the tables for a quick breakdown of numbers.

Those numbers are alarming. Quick breakdown i'll leave under 18's out as majority are unvaccinated.

Age 40-49 - 130,904 positive cases in week 38 to 41. 13,022 not vaccinated. Deaths in that age group from 28 days 64. 34 of which unvaccinated so half. This shows vaccine prevents deaths as those 34 unvaccinated are out of 13,022 which is 0.2%. Vaccinated 30 out of 117,882 which is 0.02%. 

That number becomes less than half the older you get , nearly to the point where the vaccine seems useless in the over 80's. 1365 deaths, 147 of them unvaccinated.

The vaccine clearly helps with hospitalisations in the younger populace which is obviously a great benefit. But the spread of infections is clearly not in the unvaccinated which is alarming, especially in the 40-49 age group. Apart from under 18's where they are mixing the most so to be expected anyway. All infection rates are higher amongst the vaccinated. 

Obviously this data is only over 3 weeks but it's worrying. Anyone care to explain why infection rates amongst the vaccinated are so high? If anything its the vaccinated that should be denied entry to anything in regards to this data if you wanted to stop the spread. 

I'm doubled vaccinated btw, pro vaccine but there is something very wrong going on!

One other observation in the under 18's. 398,000 cases and 5 deaths, zero point in anyone under 18 risking themselves for this vaccine!

 

 

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4 hours ago, Craig Colas said:

Those numbers are alarming. Quick breakdown i'll leave under 18's out as majority are unvaccinated.

Age 40-49 - 130,904 positive cases in week 38 to 41. 13,022 not vaccinated. Deaths in that age group from 28 days 64. 34 of which unvaccinated so half. This shows vaccine prevents deaths as those 34 unvaccinated are out of 13,022 which is 0.2%. Vaccinated 30 out of 117,882 which is 0.02%. 

That number becomes less than half the older you get , nearly to the point where the vaccine seems useless in the over 80's. 1365 deaths, 147 of them unvaccinated.

The vaccine clearly helps with hospitalisations in the younger populace which is obviously a great benefit. But the spread of infections is clearly not in the unvaccinated which is alarming, especially in the 40-49 age group. Apart from under 18's where they are mixing the most so to be expected anyway. All infection rates are higher amongst the vaccinated. 

Obviously this data is only over 3 weeks but it's worrying. Anyone care to explain why infection rates amongst the vaccinated are so high? If anything its the vaccinated that should be denied entry to anything in regards to this data if you wanted to stop the spread. 

I'm doubled vaccinated btw, pro vaccine but there is something very wrong going on!

One other observation in the under 18's. 398,000 cases and 5 deaths, zero point in anyone under 18 risking themselves for this vaccine!

 

 

This isn’t based on any evidence or research and is pure speculation only, but possibly:

1. The UK vaccinated fast and early. Protection from infection seems to drop off 6 months after the second shot (protection from serious illness seems to remain). Large numbers of people in the UK must have passed the 6 month mark by now, giving more opportunity for breakthrough infections of the vaccinated (but the low death numbers you mentioned)

2. Behavioural differences. Unvaccinated people might be more cautious about hand hygiene, mask wearing and other precautions. Vaccinated people might feel safe and overconfident, leading protective behaviours to disappear, increasing opportunity for infection.

If any of the above is true, mandated mask wearing etc would help, as would booster shots. General restrictions will probably be unpopular with limited compliance due to Covid fatigue, so boosters for everyone might be the best strategy.

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6 hours ago, MacGyver said:

This isn’t based on any evidence or research and is pure speculation only, but possibly:

1. The UK vaccinated fast and early. Protection from infection seems to drop off 6 months after the second shot (protection from serious illness seems to remain). Large numbers of people in the UK must have passed the 6 month mark by now, giving more opportunity for breakthrough infections of the vaccinated (but the low death numbers you mentioned)

2. Behavioural differences. Unvaccinated people might be more cautious about hand hygiene, mask wearing and other precautions. Vaccinated people might feel safe and overconfident, leading protective behaviours to disappear, increasing opportunity for infection.

If any of the above is true, mandated mask wearing etc would help, as would booster shots. General restrictions will probably be unpopular with limited compliance due to Covid fatigue, so boosters for everyone might be the best strategy.

In the media here, everyone is comparing European countries with the UK and noticing that the only real difference is, mask-wearing is still required in many situations in Europe. So I'd say the masks are important.

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5 hours ago, Marisawright said:

In the media here, everyone is comparing European countries with the UK and noticing that the only real difference is, mask-wearing is still required in many situations in Europe. So I'd say the masks are important.

But Scotland and wales still have mask mandates and yet they have higher cases per capita than England, where masks aren’t required.

I don’t think masks make a significant difference, there are other more important factors at play, and macgyver mentions some of them.

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2 hours ago, DIG85 said:

But Scotland and wales still have mask mandates and yet they have higher cases per capita than England, where masks aren’t required.

I don’t think masks make a significant difference, there are other more important factors at play, and macgyver mentions some of them.

30/9/21 - Scotland 7 day rolling average 51.83 per 100,000 - England - 50.23

24/10/21 - Scotland 46.03 - England 70.3

The 30th September was the last day Scotland had higher cases than England.

 

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11 minutes ago, welljock said:

30/9/21 - Scotland 7 day rolling average 51.83 per 100,000 - England - 50.23

24/10/21 - Scotland 46.03 - England 70.3

The 30th September was the last day Scotland had higher cases than England.

 

So how do you explain the fact that up until the end of September Scotland was doing worse than England, when they had differing mask mandates? I suspect there are many more factors than mask wearing. And what are the latest welsh figures?

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