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Australian and UK Covid Responses

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20 hours ago, Rallyman said:

Re wind to the very beginning and the WHO denied that there was a pandemic let alone it be contagious, 

The word pandemic has a very specific meaning in the world of health and when the Covid virus was first identified it wasn't declared a pandemic because it did not meet the criteria to be classified as a pandemic. The WHO declared a Public Health Emergence of International Concern on 30 January 2020 and declared the outbreak a pandemic on 11 March.  I don't think they ever denied that the virus was contagious. 

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20 hours ago, Rallyman said:

Re wind to the very beginning and the WHO denied that there was a pandemic let alone it be contagious, 

In the middle of January, when Covid was still confined to China, the WHO could only quote what Chinese officials were saying to them, which was that Covid wasn't being passed from person to person (which we now know was a lie).  We can't blame the WHO for that, because they had no access to see what was going on in China.   

In February they said it wasn't a pandemic, but they were right at the time.   "Pandemic" has a very specific meaning and is never used lightly.  Here's the article explaining why it was individual epidemics in various countries at that point:  

https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/02/1057991

 

Edited by Marisawright
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On 10/10/2021 at 13:24, DIG85 said:

I've just seen an item on ABC News channel about S Korea. They put every single person who tests positive for COVID - even those with no or mild symptoms - into government-run quarantine facilities. That's every one who tests positive in the country - not just international arrivals. They then had Prof Mike Toole of the Burnet Institute calling for Australia to adopt the same regime. This is an absolutely shocking call at a time when we have 70% of over 16s double dosed in NSW are heading for well over 90%. 

Here is the online article:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-10/south-korea-mandatory-quarantine-for-the-covid-positive/100514744

Both Queensland and SA have the same policy.

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2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

In the middle of January, when Covid was still confined to China, the WHO could only quote what Chinese officials were saying to them, which was that Covid wasn't being passed from person to person (which we now know was a lie).  We can't blame the WHO for that, because they had no access to see what was going on in China.   

In February they said it wasn't a pandemic, but they were right at the time.   "Pandemic" has a very specific meaning and is never used lightly.  Here's the article explaining why it was individual epidemics in various countries at that point:  

https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/02/1057991

 

China control the WHO , they pay the most towards its costs 

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On 08/10/2021 at 20:08, Tulip1 said:

There’s a lot of people that don’t think that.  It’s talked about here quite a bit.  Australia has gone from the great place to be admired as they closed borders early and had low death rates to the place that is in a dictatorship situation (well Melbourne especially) with much of the nation unhappy and fed up.   

It's talked about a lot here too by the media. There was an article from an reporter based in England who was saying what a shock it would be for people coming from Australia and seeing people out and about, no masks, pubs and clubs open, no restrictions on numbers.

Do they do any research or do they just lump Australia as all being the same?

We have had a couple of lockdowns here totalling about 4 weeks where we were still allowed out to exercise, sit in the park or beach but social distance. Other then that it's been pre covid normal. 

The reporter got round to the number of cases and deaths later on in the report but grudgingly.

Some of these media people need to do some research.

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On 08/10/2021 at 20:08, Tulip1 said:

There’s a lot of people that don’t think that.  It’s talked about here quite a bit.  Australia has gone from the great place to be admired as they closed borders early and had low death rates to the place that is in a dictatorship situation (well Melbourne especially) with much of the nation unhappy and fed up.   

That's because the media there don't have a clue of what's happening outside Melbourne and Sydney.

It's all hyped up to make the UK situation seem a bit better.

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3 hours ago, NicF said:

The word pandemic has a very specific meaning in the world of health and when the Covid virus was first identified it wasn't declared a pandemic because it did not meet the criteria to be classified as a pandemic. The WHO declared a Public Health Emergence of International Concern on 30 January 2020 and declared the outbreak a pandemic on 11 March.  I don't think they ever denied that the virus was contagious. 

Scot Morrison was accused of being racist because he closed the boarder straight away with China as they denied it was as serious as it is/ was. Look at all the sanctions that have been imposed on Australia because they dared to ask probing questions of the origin. 

 

After initial denials and cover-ups, China successfully contained the COVID-19 outbreak—but not before it had exported many cases to the rest of the world. Today, despite the falsehoods it initially passed on, which played a critical role in delaying global response, it’s trying to leverage its reputed success story into a stronger position on international health bodies.

Most critically, Beijing succeeded from the start in steering the World Health Organization (WHO), which both receives funding from China and is dependent on the regime of the Communist Party on many levels. Its international experts didn’t get access to the country until Director-General Tedros Adhanom visited President Xi Jinping at the end of January. Before then, WHO was uncritically repeating information from the Chinese authorities, ignoring warnings from Taiwanese doctors—unrepresented in WHO, which is a United Nations body—and reluctant to declare a “public health emergency of international concern,” denying after a meeting Jan. 22 that there was any need to do so.

After the Beijing visit, though, WHO said in a statement that it appreciated “especially the commitment from top leadership, and the transparency they have demonstrated.” Only after the meeting did it declared, on Jan. 30, a public health emergency of international concern. And after China reported only a few new cases each day, WHO declared the coronavirus a pandemic March 11—even though it had spread globally weeks before.

 

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25 minutes ago, Rallyman said:

Scot Morrison was accused of being racist because he closed the boarder straight away with China as they denied it was as serious as it is/ was. Look at all the sanctions that have been imposed on Australia because they dared to ask probing questions of the origin. 
After initial denials and cover-ups, China successfully contained the COVID-19 outbreak—but not before it had exported many cases to the rest of the world. Today, despite the falsehoods it initially passed on, which played a critical role in delaying global response, it’s trying to leverage its reputed success story into a stronger position on international health bodies.

Most critically, Beijing succeeded from the start in steering the World Health Organization (WHO), which both receives funding from China and is dependent on the regime of the Communist Party on many levels. Its international experts didn’t get access to the country until Director-General Tedros Adhanom visited President Xi Jinping at the end of January. Before then, WHO was uncritically repeating information from the Chinese authorities, ignoring warnings from Taiwanese doctors—unrepresented in WHO, which is a United Nations body—and reluctant to declare a “public health emergency of international concern,” denying after a meeting Jan. 22 that there was any need to do so.

After the Beijing visit, though, WHO said in a statement that it appreciated “especially the commitment from top leadership, and the transparency they have demonstrated.” Only after the meeting did it declared, on Jan. 30, a public health emergency of international concern. And after China reported only a few new cases each day, WHO declared the coronavirus a pandemic March 11—even though it had spread globally weeks before.

So you agree completely with what NicF said in the previous post?

 

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1 hour ago, Paul1Perth said:

That's because the media there don't have a clue of what's happening outside Melbourne and Sydney.

It's all hyped up to make the UK situation seem a bit better.

As NSW came out of lockdown today with reduced restrictions,  Channel 9 news tonight had a short report on the UK to show what can go wrong post-lockdown end with no further management.   34,574 positive cases yesterday and 260,000 in the last 7 days, with 785 deaths.  It's so bad they don't dare report it on the TV anymore....but the population is desensitised anyway.

If we can keep the post-lockdown Australian numbers to a population-adjusted 25-50% of those figures, it will prove that retaining some simple common sense restrictions were essential.

Edited by Robert Dyson
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43 minutes ago, Robert Dyson said:

So you agree completely with what NicF said in the previous post?

 

🤷‍♂️

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2 hours ago, Robert Dyson said:

As NSW came out of lockdown today with reduced restrictions,  Channel 9 news tonight had a short report on the UK to show what can go wrong post-lockdown end with no further management.   34,574 positive cases yesterday and 260,000 in the last 7 days, with 785 deaths.  It's so bad they don't dare report it on the TV anymore....but the population is desensitised anyway.

I agree that we are largely desensitised to this in the UK but to claim it's not reported on the TV is false. BBC and ITV report the daily stats and ongoing trends on the National and Regional news bulletins several times a day. The difference now is it's a brief update and the whole show isn't all about Covid figures. The theatre of long daily updates ended a while back, thankfully.

The case numbers here are high currently, driven by the return of schools. Around 50% of cases are in the under 19s, who I think still get tested twice a week at School.

Speaking to friends and relatives in the NHS, most of the cases they see in ICU now are those under 45 and unvaccinated. Others coming in are in hospital for a much shorter period.

We kept a few restrictions in Scotland compared to England (distancing, face masks in shops & public transport) and are implementing covid passports for nightclubs and large events, for the winter period. Over time you see more people not wearing masks and there's no real policing of distancing, masks and QR codes.

Boosters jabs for the over 50s and younger people with underlying conditions are now happening, 2 million have been done so far. In Scotland, the Covid booster is given at the same time as the flu jab.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, db100 said:

to claim it's not reported on the TV is false. BBC and ITV report the daily stats and ongoing trends on the National and Regional news bulletins several times a day

Agree, completely false.  I see the daily figures everyday on my sky news app and also on the bbc app.  Must be on lots of different news apps/tv news too I’m sure. 

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9 hours ago, Robert Dyson said:

As NSW came out of lockdown today with reduced restrictions,  Channel 9 news tonight had a short report on the UK to show what can go wrong post-lockdown end with no further management.   34,574 positive cases yesterday and 260,000 in the last 7 days, with 785 deaths.  It's so bad they don't dare report it on the TV anymore....but the population is desensitised anyway.

If we can keep the post-lockdown Australian numbers to a population-adjusted 25-50% of those figures, it will prove that retaining some simple common sense restrictions were essential.

While some restrictions have been lifted , nsw still has measures in place , until the 1st of December, great for business to be able to open up ( with restrictions) , we have further management and 
it will be ongoing until deemed necessary and gradually changed over time. 
I doubt we will ever get back to life pre covid for some considerable time. 

Edited by Rallyman

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For me on the other side of the world, the Australia situation looks similar to that in the UK around 3 months ago. Westminster decided on a 'Freedom day', the best parallel is what NSW will have in a couple of weeks when 80% double vacc is reached. The UK devolved governments had access to the same health advice but didn't want to open up at the same time, similar to Aus states views currently. In Scotland it appeared to be political and the messaging just looked to me and others that the Scottish government wanted to look like it cared more than the nasty people in Westminster. Inevitably, once England opened up it was only a matter of time before Scotland, Wales and NI did. I can't really think of anything I can't do now that I did before Covid - other than go to Australia. The comparison may be wide of the mark - apologies if it is!

I suspect once NSW has its freedoms, other states will follow quickly.  What happens when 30 people come off the first flight from London in November and want to go home to QLD for Christmas? Then more off the next flight and the one after that.

I think Perottet taking the lead on the press conferences, having consulted with the health professionals was an important step forward.  Elected officials need to lead you out of this, not Chief Health Officers.


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50 minutes ago, db100 said:

I think Perottet taking the lead on the press conferences, having consulted with the health professionals was an important step forward.  Elected officials need to lead you out of this, not Chief Health Officers.

He made a big deal about having consulted the health professionals, but he didn't say they were happy about his decision. 

We'll see the result in the next couple of weeks, I guess.  

The difference between the UK and Australia is that the Australian people are not desensitized to deaths.    All the state premiers recall how Dan Andrews was pilloried back in 2020, for allowing 800 people to die in the Melbourne outbreak.   It was seen as a national tragedy.  

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1 hour ago, db100 said:

For me on the other side of the world, the Australia situation looks similar to that in the UK around 3 months ago. Westminster decided on a 'Freedom day', the best parallel is what NSW will have in a couple of weeks when 80% double vacc is reached. The UK devolved governments had access to the same health advice but didn't want to open up at the same time, similar to Aus states views currently. In Scotland it appeared to be political and the messaging just looked to me and others that the Scottish government wanted to look like it cared more than the nasty people in Westminster. Inevitably, once England opened up it was only a matter of time before Scotland, Wales and NI did. I can't really think of anything I can't do now that I did before Covid - other than go to Australia. The comparison may be wide of the mark - apologies if it is!

I suspect once NSW has its freedoms, other states will follow quickly.  What happens when 30 people come off the first flight from London in November and want to go home to QLD for Christmas? Then more off the next flight and the one after that.

I think Perottet taking the lead on the press conferences, having consulted with the health professionals was an important step forward.  Elected officials need to lead you out of this, not Chief Health Officers.

Large chunks of Australia don't need a freedom day because they are already free.  I wish people would realise that there is more to Australia than NSW and Victoria and that the other states aren't locked down, have minimal restrictions and are allowing people to travel in to, and out of, the state freely with the other parts of Australia that aren't NSW and Victoria.

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Looks like Victoria has peaked now too and heading down in daily case numbers.


Buy a man eat fish. The Day, Teach Man, to lifetime.      - Joe Biden.

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8 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

Agree, completely false.  I see the daily figures everyday on my sky news app and also on the bbc app.  Must be on lots of different news apps/tv news too I’m sure. 

If you're anything like most people here you must be really fed up of hearing about it. It's hard to avoid though, still on every news broadcast.

Mostly NSW and Victoria though, everywhere else hardly gets a mention. They don't do good news stories.

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Those first three drinks I had after 105 days tasted FOUL! Then I had a schooner of VB and everything was OK. First decent night's sleep for nearly four months too.

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1 hour ago, db100 said:

For me on the other side of the world, the Australia situation looks similar to that in the UK around 3 months ago. Westminster decided on a 'Freedom day', the best parallel is what NSW will have in a couple of weeks when 80% double vacc is reached. The UK devolved governments had access to the same health advice but didn't want to open up at the same time, similar to Aus states views currently. In Scotland it appeared to be political and the messaging just looked to me and others that the Scottish government wanted to look like it cared more than the nasty people in Westminster. Inevitably, once England opened up it was only a matter of time before Scotland, Wales and NI did. I can't really think of anything I can't do now that I did before Covid - other than go to Australia. The comparison may be wide of the mark - apologies if it is!

I suspect once NSW has its freedoms, other states will follow quickly.  What happens when 30 people come off the first flight from London in November and want to go home to QLD for Christmas? Then more off the next flight and the one after that.

I think Perottet taking the lead on the press conferences, having consulted with the health professionals was an important step forward.  Elected officials need to lead you out of this, not Chief Health Officers.

There's a few places that you can go to but wouldn't want to surely? 

It's like we live in a different world here in WA. Untouched by covid almost.

I think people flying in will be some of the most reliable covid free people we could wish for. Double jabbed, tested before they get on the plane, tested and quarantine when they land. If it doesn't work out like that things will change.

I saw on the news Bali is opening up. I love it there but it will be a long time before we'd feel safe to visit. Unfortunately we feel the same way about the UK. We aren't in a rush to go anywhere. Summers coming and it's brilliant here in summer.

Not that you'd know it at the moment, it's been a wet and cool start to spring but 30 degrees forecast for Friday.😎

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17 hours ago, rtritudr said:

Both Queensland and SA have the same policy.

No they don't. 

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2 hours ago, db100 said:

 Inevitably, once England opened up it was only a matter of time before Scotland, Wales and NI did ... I suspect once NSW has its freedoms, other states will follow quickly. 

Indeed, there is a lot of huffing and puffing below the line on Guardian Australia articles, with commenters claiming that NSW is putting profit before people whereas Victoria is putting people before profit. Leaving aside the puerile slogans, it's all nonsense of course. The Victorian roadmap is almost a carbon copy of the NSW one, with restrictions lifting at 70% (but only for the vaccinated) and then more again at 80%. NSW has basically forced Victoria's hand when it comes to lockdown exit.

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44 minutes ago, DIG85 said:

Indeed, there is a lot of huffing and puffing below the line on Guardian Australia articles, with commenters claiming that NSW is putting profit before people whereas Victoria is putting people before profit. Leaving aside the puerile slogans, it's all nonsense of course. The Victorian roadmap is almost a carbon copy of the NSW one, with restrictions lifting at 70% (but only for the vaccinated) and then more again at 80%. NSW has basically forced Victoria's hand when it comes to lockdown exit.

No, NSW has not forced Victoria's hand.  Delta forced Victoria's hand. 

Victoria was a very strong "zero Covid" state.  They even managed to stamp out their first Delta outbreak completely.   It was only when they realised this current outbreak couldn't be squashed, that they were forced to change their policy - and even then, Victoria's policy was a world away from NSW's.  

In terms of vaccination thresholds, both NSW and Victoria agreed to the national roadmap so it's inevitable they will have similiarities.  But I'm sure Victoria will be watching what happens in NSW in the next couple of weeks, to see whether they get away with "freedom day" or end up swamped with cases again, and they will act accordingly.

Edited by Marisawright
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49 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

No, NSW has not forced Victoria's hand.  Delta forced Victoria's hand. 

Victoria was a very strong "zero Covid" state.  They even managed to stamp out their first Delta outbreak completely.   It was only when they realised this current outbreak couldn't be squashed, that they were forced to change their policy - and even then, Victoria's policy was a world away from NSW's.  

In terms of vaccination thresholds, both NSW and Victoria agreed to the national roadmap so it's inevitable they will have similiarities.  But I'm sure Victoria will be watching what happens in NSW in the next couple of weeks, to see whether they get away with "freedom day" or end up swamped with cases again, and they will act accordingly.

When I said NSW had forced Victoria's hand, I was not referring to the latter's response to Delta, I was referring to the lifting of the current lockdown. It is clear that Victorians are not going to accept lockdowns for too much longer, especially (i) now that they have seen their NSW neighbours going about their daily lives much more normally; and (ii) the amount of time Victorians have spent in lockdown since last March. 

In terms of the exit roadmap, Andrews is basically saying exactly the same things now as Berijiklian was 3-4 weeks ago. There's hardly a cigarette paper between them.

And I don't agree that Victoria's policy has been a "world away" from NSW's since Victoria de facto scrapped its zero Covid policy at the beginning of August. It's actually been pretty much identical. 

 

 

Edited by DIG85

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14 minutes ago, DIG85 said:

When I said NSW had forced Victoria's hand, I was not referring to the latter's response to Delta, I was referring to the lifting of the current lockdown. It is clear that Victorians are not going to accept lockdowns for too much longer, especially (i) now that they have seen their NSW neighbours going about their daily lives much more normally; and (ii) the amount of time Victorians have spent in lockdown since last March. 

In terms of the exit roadmap, Andrews is basically saying exactly the same things now as Berijiklian was 3-4 weeks ago. There's hardly a cigarette paper between them.

And I don't agree that Victoria's policy has been a "world away" from NSW's since Victoria de facto scrapped its zero Covid policy at the beginning of August. It's actually been pretty much identical. 

 

 

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