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Australian and UK Covid Responses

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2 hours ago, Rallyman said:

But will you be able to return ? 

You want to leave for good you said, so don't worry about it.

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I want it all, and I want it now.

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3 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

One of the reasons we moved here and chose our suburb carefully was to be "content" with what's local.

This is me, too.  For me, it's the fundamental difference between my life in Australia and my life in the UK.   In the UK, all my relatives have one or two overseas holidays a year, and they spend the other 10 or 11 months of the year looking forward to those holidays, while living routine, quiet lives consisting of work, pub, TV and sleep.   I could imagine that, if I still lived that kind of life, I'd find closed borders intolerable, because it's taking away the one bright spot in their year.. 

What I love about both Melbourne and Sydney is that I never feel the need to go on holiday at all.   There's so many different and interesting things I can do every week, I don't have time.  In fact, when I had the chance to go on a trip to Granada with my flamenco group in 2019, I was somewhat reluctant to go, because I'd miss too many activities back home in Melbourne.  And in the days when my parents were alive, I only went back to the UK out of a sense of duty.  Once they had both passed, I didn't go on a holiday for about 5 years.

   

Edited by Marisawright
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Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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32 minutes ago, Parley said:

You want to leave for good you said, so don't worry about it.

What are going on about ? 
please show where I have stated that ? 

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12 hours ago, unzippy said:

Again, you appeared to fixated on Pfizer and wanting to blame someone else. 

There are gallons and gallons of Aussie made vaccine that isn't being used.  The joke is that most Aussies are too scared to take it (for no good reason) and there for holding out for something that is in short supply - this is what is holding Australia back.

 

Pfizer is not in short supply at the moment due to our PM making deals with other countries.. AZ is not in short supply. Our daughter in WA went for a skin cancer scan today. Even though she did not anticipate being offered a vaccine dose, yet while there on matters related to skin cancer, she was offered AZ, or Pizer as there had been 19 cancellations at that particular clinic on the day. The doctor at the clinic put the cancellations down to people preferring to receive the Moderna vaccination now becoming available. Those people had obviously intended to come to the clinic but had decided to go with the Moderna vaccination.   I don't think that Australians have anything to be scared about as long as they are committed to being vaccinated.

If I was living in the UK? Now that is scary. 

Edited by Dusty Plains
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38 minutes ago, Dusty Plains said:

Pfizer is not in short supply at the moment due to our PM making deals with other countries.. AZ is not in short supply. Our daughter in WA went for a skin cancer scan today. Even though she did not anticipate being offered a vaccine dose, yet while there on matters related to skin cancer, she was offered AZ, or Pizer as there had been 19 cancellations at that particular clinic on the day. The doctor at the clinic put the cancellations down to people preferring to receive the Moderna vaccination now becoming available. Those people had obviously intended to come to the clinic but had decided to go with the Moderna vaccination.   I don't think that Australians have anything to be scared about as long as they are committed to being vaccinated.

If I was living in the UK? Now that is scary. 

OMG your right it's so scary here at the moment!!  Over 80+, 120 deaths roughly amongst the unvaccinated per 100,000 cases. 0.12%. Can you explain why this is so frightening for you? It's embarrassing reading some of the posts on here. 153,000 people a day die on average worldwide, I think you need to learn some perspective. Pulled from the BBC earlier today fyi! 

_120565364_optimised-deaths_by_vax_status.png.e8b6811dd6e6ce9a735d2de15c3014e8.png 

 

Edited by Craig Colas
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14 hours ago, Rallyman said:

If this actually needs explaining too you , I think,  you don’t or will not accept what has happened in this regard. 
Government , state and federal are beyond reproach with yourself 

In regard to the handling of covid in Australia. 

Not at all. I am just one of the majority of Australians who are happy (more or less) to go with current governments on the basis of how they have handled the situation. You are obviously not, and I still therefore cannot see your point. If you had suggested an alternative government approach, or an alternative government other than that currently running the show then lets hear it. 

We are banned from discussing politics. I agree. But I also agree that Covid and the efforts to counter the impact of Covid are inseparable, It just so happens that federal and state governments ARE the efforts to counter the impact of covid, through their various departments of health, police, welfare, public information, logistics etc.

Its not a party versus party politic and no government leader has all the answers and so they delegate most of the decision making to their senior officers. Victoria, for instance has a single Covid Commander, an apolitical bureaucrat.  So the strategies emanate from the non-political bureaucracy. When I see the rocks being thrown by Mc Gowan et al then that is mere politics, and unhelpful at that.     

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12 hours ago, Marisawright said:

@Dusty Plains, a very simple check through the internet and past newspapers proves you are wrong.  The Morrison government did, indeed, sign an agreement for 40 million doses, TO BE DELIVERED AT INTERVALS OVER THE COURSE OF 12 MONTHS.   Canada did exactly the same.  There was never any expectation that 40 million doses would suddenly arrive in Australia. To keep pretending otherwise in the face of all the evidence is ridiculous.

If you could have attached my post to your post,  where I was somehow "pretending", then we could discuss. Going on your isolated post, and not that it matters, Australia never signed an agreement 40 million doses of Pfizer. Also there was never a 12 month schedule agreed upon.  It made instead incremental orders of 10 million Pfizer doses months apart and subsequently an order of 20 million Pfizer doses.  

In October 2020 Australia established a pre-purchase agreement for 51 million doses of the Novavax vaccine. The logic at the time was to have a spread of vaccination options. Being wise long after the event, is easy, but it is likely that if Australia had known at the time ( October 2020) that Novavax would be subject to delay then it would most likely have gone with an increased order for Pfizer. Novavax has since not been able to fulfill our order due to a number issues, but it is expected that our 51 million order will be honoured for delivery by the end of 2021 or early 2022.     

No one has suggested that 40 million doses would "suddenly arrive in" Australia. 

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1 hour ago, Craig Colas said:

OMG your right it's so scary here at the moment!!  Over 80+, 120 deaths roughly amongst the unvaccinated per 100,000 cases. 0.12%. Can you explain why this is so frightening for you? It's embarrassing reading some of the posts on here. 153,000 people a day die on average worldwide, I think you need to learn some perspective. Pulled from the BBC earlier today fyi! 

_120565364_optimised-deaths_by_vax_status.png.e8b6811dd6e6ce9a735d2de15c3014e8.png 

 

Genuine question, do you know how this compares to typical death rates for flu each year? I’m assuming it’ll still be quite a bit higher but just for a reference point

I was looking for that data from an Australian perspective and I think Australian flu deaths averaged  somewhere in the region of 16-25 per week, depending on how bad a flu season it was. With restrictions in place I think (think!) NSW had about 25 Covid deaths in a month. I’m very interested to see where those numbers go as fully vaccinated numbers increase and restrictions decrease. I read those figures a few weeks back so I might remember them incorrectly or they may be out of date by now


:evilface_frowning_s

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9 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

Genuine question, do you know how this compares to typical death rates for flu each year? I’m assuming it’ll still be quite a bit higher but just for a reference point

I was looking for that data from an Australian perspective and I think Australian flu deaths averaged  somewhere in the region of 16-25 per week, depending on how bad a flu season it was. With restrictions in place I think (think!) NSW had about 25 Covid deaths in a month. I’m very interested to see where those numbers go as fully vaccinated numbers increase and restrictions decrease. I read those figures a few weeks back so I might remember them incorrectly or they may be out of date by now

I don't actually, but will try have a look when I get the chance. It is interesting looking into it though, could be a number of factors for the decreased rate in deaths not solely linked to the vaccine and lockdown measures. We can clearly see the vaccines work, especially in the older and vulnerable groups, but the hysteria and fearmongering is just not warranted from my point of view. 

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2 hours ago, Craig Colas said:

OMG your right it's so scary here at the moment!!  Over 80+, 120 deaths roughly amongst the unvaccinated per 100,000 cases. 0.12%. Can you explain why this is so frightening for you? It's embarrassing reading some of the posts on here. 153,000 people a day die on average worldwide, I think you need to learn some perspective. Pulled from the BBC earlier today fyi! 

 

 

I think that's too black and white.  The Covid outcome measure isn't simply Live or Die.  There's a whole range that go from "Didn't even know I had it" to "Dead as that Monty Python Parrot".

The Office for Nation Statistics reports 1 million people in the UK are reporting long covid symptoms - 40% of which have had symptoms for over a year.  People aged 35-69 are the most affected.

I agree with you, I am also not scared of death from Covid - the percentages are tiny, but of long Covid..... I think that is scary.  Fatigue, shortness of breath, difficulty concentrating.  Yes you're alive, but that's a miserable way to live and we don't yet know how long it will last for some of those people.

 

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British  | Lived in Australia 2001-02 on 457   | Married Aussie wife & moved back to UK | Plan to return to Sydney 2026 when all kids have finished school

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I do think Australia seems more frightened of covid than the UK.  I think in part the UK may have become slightly desensitised to it because of our higher death rates but I think Australia is a little too much the other way.  My son said to me several people have almost offered their condolences to him when they hear he has family in the UK.  He was talking to someone the other day and mentioned his mum was in the UK and they were horrified and as they said goodbye they said something about how worrying it must be and they will pray for our safety etc.  It’s like I live in a doomed apocalypse war zone.  In fact,  my life is quite normal as is everyone I knows life is.  I never feel I’m going to die, anymore than I did two years ago.  Taking a look at that chart above the blue line is just about visible if you look very closely in my age bracket.  I saw on here recently someone put something like we are saying just trying our best to hang in there……and they live in Australia! 

Edited by Tulip1
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21 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

I do think Australia seems more frightened of covid than the UK.  I think in part the UK may have become slightly desensitised to it because of our higher death rates but I think Australia is a little too much the other way.  My son said to me several people have almost offered their condolences to him when they hear he has family in the UK.  He was talking to someone the other day and mentioned his mum was in the UK and they were horrified and as they said goodbye they said something about how worrying it must be and they will pray for our safety etc.  It’s like I live in a doomed apocalypse war zone.  In fact,  my life is quite normal as is everyone I knows life is.  I never feel I’m going to die, anymore than I did two years ago.  Taking a look at that chart above the blue line is just about visible if you look very closely in my age bracket.  I saw on here recently someone put something like we are saying just trying our best to hang in there……and they live in Australia! 

The Brits have always been more stoic than the aussies.  I was shocked to see how much aussies like to be wrapped in cotton wool and always need permission to do anything.

Not saying aussies are wimps BTW 

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Get my 2nd shot in an hour.  Something else I won’t have to worry about. 

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10 minutes ago, Bulya said:

Get my 2nd shot in an hour.  Something else I won’t have to worry about. 

Yes you will need to worry about when to get your 3rd shot.


I want it all, and I want it now.

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19 hours ago, simmo said:

Me too. I've started listening to radio Caroline because it has no news.

LIstening to radio Caroline just now .................  music from the 60s and 70s currently playing.  Thanks for the heads up.  👍

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1 hour ago, Parley said:

Yes you will need to worry about when to get your 3rd shot.

Doc said that’s a fair way off.  Still not a problem. 

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8 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

I do think Australia seems more frightened of covid than the UK.  I think in part the UK may have become slightly desensitised to it because of our higher death rates but I think Australia is a little too much the other way.  My son said to me several people have almost offered their condolences to him when they hear he has family in the UK.  He was talking to someone the other day and mentioned his mum was in the UK and they were horrified and as they said goodbye they said something about how worrying it must be and they will pray for our safety etc.  It’s like I live in a doomed apocalypse war zone.  In fact,  my life is quite normal as is everyone I knows life is.  I never feel I’m going to die, anymore than I did two years ago.  Taking a look at that chart above the blue line is just about visible if you look very closely in my age bracket.  I saw on here recently someone put something like we are saying just trying our best to hang in there……and they live in Australia! 

Well that hasn't been my experience with people I know in Qld, Sydney and Melbourne.  Most of them are just fed up of the whole Covid thing and they certainly aren't treating it like some sort of apocalypse.  Mind you most of those people are retired or semi-retired.  It must be pretty horrible for people who have lost their jobs/business.  That must be pretty soul destroying and depressing.  Other than that most people I know are just getting on with it.  My sister in Edinburgh and SIL in Hertford were pretty fed up of it as well.  Of course there are always the doom and gloomers who are scared of dying but I don't know any of them. 

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15 hours ago, Marisawright said:

This is me, too.  For me, it's the fundamental difference between my life in Australia and my life in the UK.   In the UK, all my relatives have one or two overseas holidays a year, and they spend the other 10 or 11 months of the year looking forward to those holidays, while living routine, quiet lives consisting of work, pub, TV and sleep.   I could imagine that, if I still lived that kind of life, I'd find closed borders intolerable, because it's taking away the one bright spot in their year.. 

What I love about both Melbourne and Sydney is that I never feel the need to go on holiday at all.   There's so many different and interesting things I can do every week, I don't have time.  In fact, when I had the chance to go on a trip to Granada with my flamenco group in 2019, I was somewhat reluctant to go, because I'd miss too many activities back home in Melbourne.  And in the days when my parents were alive, I only went back to the UK out of a sense of duty.  Once they had both passed, I didn't go on a holiday for about 5 years.

   

I know we have totally different interests but isn't it good when you expect something at it actually works.

What you describe as a life in the UK was us to a tee. Pub most nights, FIL used to call on the way up, pub right across the road. Was a member of a good squash club, that and running were my outlets and a bit of windsurfing. 

Yep, lockdown there would have been tough.

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10 hours ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

I think that's too black and white.  The Covid outcome measure isn't simply Live or Die.  There's a whole range that go from "Didn't even know I had it" to "Dead as that Monty Python Parrot".

The Office for Nation Statistics reports 1 million people in the UK are reporting long covid symptoms - 40% of which have had symptoms for over a year.  People aged 35-69 are the most affected.

I agree with you, I am also not scared of death from Covid - the percentages are tiny, but of long Covid..... I think that is scary.  Fatigue, shortness of breath, difficulty concentrating.  Yes you're alive, but that's a miserable way to live and we don't yet know how long it will last for some of those people.

 

When people say we are scared or hysteric, we're not. When borders open, which I reckon will be sometime around Christmas, we won't be too worried.

The difference will be cases will be monitored, if it looks like numbers are getting out of control, borders will close again and we'll have a lockdown. I don't expect this to happen though.

The difference in the UK is it's out of control, everyone knows it and the best the government can come up with is a plan B, which will probably see another lockdown that no-one will observe. They gave you freedom day and no-one wants to go back.

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11 hours ago, Craig Colas said:

 hysteria and fearmongering is just not warranted from my point of view. 

What hysteria?  I'm with FirstWorldProblems, I'm far more worried about the long-term effects of Covid. I think that's a time bomb that will eventually explode and I'd rather it wasn't me.

Edited by Marisawright
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Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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9 hours ago, simmo said:

The Brits have always been more stoic than the aussies.  I was shocked to see how much aussies like to be wrapped in cotton wool and always need permission to do anything.

Not saying aussies are wimps BTW 

Yes, but will the Ashes go ahead? 😎 

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14 hours ago, Craig Colas said:

OMG your right it's so scary here at the moment!!  Over 80+, 120 deaths roughly amongst the unvaccinated per 100,000 cases. 0.12%. Can you explain why this is so frightening for you? It's embarrassing reading some of the posts on here. 153,000 people a day die on average worldwide, I think you need to learn some perspective. Pulled from the BBC earlier today fyi! 

_120565364_optimised-deaths_by_vax_status.png.e8b6811dd6e6ce9a735d2de15c3014e8.png 

 

I guess it must be that a point of view can be sourced from a variety of references. My reference is here:

• COVID-19 deaths per capita by country | Statista 

You can check it out if you like. I am not interested in having a pointless discussion about people dying.

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5 hours ago, Toots said:

Well that hasn't been my experience with people I know in Qld, Sydney and Melbourne.  Most of them are just fed up of the whole Covid thing and they certainly aren't treating it like some sort of apocalypse.  Mind you most of those people are retired or semi-retired.  It must be pretty horrible for people who have lost their jobs/business.  That must be pretty soul destroying and depressing.  Other than that most people I know are just getting on with it.  My sister in Edinburgh and SIL in Hertford were pretty fed up of it as well.  Of course there are always the doom and gloomers who are scared of dying but I don't know any of them. 

I meant the way some talk you’d think people living in the UK are living in some kind of apocalypse.  Perhaps I didn’t word it well but I didn’t mean people living in Australia are.  Yes it’s not been great here but people are living normal lives (some have sadly suffered job/business losses) but some there seem to think it must be unbearable in the UK.  It certainly wasn’t a dig,  more a lighthearted comment that some people had spoken to my son over there and expressed a kind of horror his family lived in the UK and were like “our thoughts are with them” (like we are in end of life or something)  I think it’s fair to say people in both countries are fed up with it all.  
 

Just re-read my previous comment and I definitely put its like I am living in an apocalypse (no mention of people in Australia) and that comment followed me saying about my son mentioning I live in the UK so I’m sure it didn’t read like I meant people there are. 

Edited by Tulip1

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Just thought I’d chime in….. as discussed we can’t avoid this virus, I think UK, USA etc is where we can expect to be in a few months

….. my very elderly parents, UK, both have been vaccinated and they’re now both in hospital with Covid. Mum completely housebound and Dad had only been out once to get band aids and wore a mask. I am so grateful they’re vaccinated. Both had completely stopped eating I guess that’s the taste symptom.

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20 minutes ago, BusbyBoo said:

Just thought I’d chime in….. as discussed we can’t avoid this virus, I think UK, USA etc is where we can expect to be in a few months

….. my very elderly parents, UK, both have been vaccinated and they’re now both in hospital with Covid. Mum completely housebound and Dad had only been out once to get band aids and wore a mask. I am so grateful they’re vaccinated. Both had completely stopped eating I guess that’s the taste symptom.

Sorry to hear that, xM

Edited by ramot

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