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Australian and UK Covid Responses

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Just now, Rossmoyne said:

Caused by covid or by the vaccine?  Genuine question as I have read so many conflicting views on this.

I’ve not read anything suggesting long Covid can happen after the jab.  It’s not a live vaccine so not sure how that’s possible.  Where have you seen all these views.  I’d be guided by science/medical facts rather than ‘conflicting views’ I’d be interested to see what you have seen though if it’s stated by professionals.  

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On 03/09/2021 at 14:44, kungfustu said:

we have known for years that viruses of one type or another can have long term effects of people.....its nothing new....some are worse than others....covid is no different....its a virus....

https://www.health.com/condition/flu/flu-long-term-effects

I certainly know that.   I had Ross River Virus at the end of 2011 and all through 2012.   It led to me retiring early will ill health because of the symptoms, which incidentally are exactly the same as those for long covid.   9 years later I still have the re-occurrence of the arthritis flareups, chronic fatique and depression, a few times a year.   Similar to malaria in a way in that the symptoms can come back and haunt you years later.

 

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......Just trying to be helpful so don't shoot me down if my personal views do not coincide with yours! :animal-dog:

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9 minutes ago, Rossmoyne said:

Caused by covid or by the vaccine?  Genuine question as I have read so many conflicting views on this.

Cite one reputable scientific article that says these symptoms are caused by the vaccine. Conspiracy theory bunkum. 

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Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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On 04/09/2021 at 14:01, simmo said:

Will any one on here be using the facial recognition app?

Is that for home quarantine Simmo or something else?


:evilface_frowning_s

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On 04/09/2021 at 08:30, Robert Dyson said:

It will be worse than it is now, but it won't be worse than it ought to be because what's coming is now predictable and backed up by evidence from other countries who have not fared so well.

Any lessons learned from poor performers will reduce the risk to Australia, whilst also needing to accept that there will be catastrophic outcomes for some but not as many as in countries where hospital's did get overwhelmed and they had poor early knowledge. 

This has given Australian health services plenty of time to change their workforces and recruitment requirements,  build new hospital infrastructure and expanded ICU's,  change model of care plans and functional processes,  embedding infection control to a pandemic level of requirement across all areas of public life,  stocking up on items that were previously scarce like breathing assistance machines and PPE,  using latest reseach to procure specific drugs which have now been proven to help, whilst using vaccination levels to more accurately predict how many beds they will need and how many people are going to die.   People hopefully will have been improving their own health by diet and exercise so will be better prepared to fight off inflammatory disease. 

The coming summer here and the respite this will bring with increasing vaccinations, and the coming winter in Europe will bring even more real-life data as to what will happen in Australia 9 months from now to a population that hopes to be 80-85% vaccinated.

There will be no 1st world nation on earth better prepared than Australia when we get past 80% vaccinations.

The biggest risk is that another variant appears, and that is what everybody should be most concerned about when observing countries who have removed all restrictions. If an India, or a UK, or a Brazil, produces another dangerous variant, that's something we would not look forward to.

 

Sadly Australia does not seem to have done many of these things.   Many states have a hospital crisis with lack of staff and beds and constant ambulance ramping... WA in particular is in crisis healthwise, and god knows what would happen if we had a situation like NSW or Victoria, as the health department would not cope.  Drugs that are proven to help are still banned, think Ivermectin, Hydroxychloroquine.  And nowhere in the whole government daily media rubbish has there been anything about recommending people look at their diets, reduce junk food, eat healthy, exercise more, take zinc and Vit D supplements to support their immune system.  

I have a friend who is a GP, a cousin who is a Naturopath, 2 nieces who are Registered Nurses.   They know each other, they talk together, I listen.    They are all worried that the messages going out from the government are nowhere near what they should be, that to build your natural immunity would help your body fight covid if you caught it.   Vaccines have a place to play, but surely making yourself as healthy as possible should be important too.


......Just trying to be helpful so don't shoot me down if my personal views do not coincide with yours! :animal-dog:

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On 04/09/2021 at 09:38, HappyHeart said:

The main issue is staffing. Nothing more, nothing less. You can hace all the ventilators and beds in the world but without the appropriately trained human resources they lie empty. When will Governments here and there get this very basic lesson into their heads. Infuriating. Yiu run services to the bone with minimal staff and the shit hits the fan every time theres a crisis of any kind. 

And that is exactly what McGowan has done in WA.


......Just trying to be helpful so don't shoot me down if my personal views do not coincide with yours! :animal-dog:

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On 04/09/2021 at 14:01, simmo said:

Will any one on here be using the facial recognition app?

NO

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......Just trying to be helpful so don't shoot me down if my personal views do not coincide with yours! :animal-dog:

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On 04/09/2021 at 19:58, Amber Snowball said:

Hi @Rossmoyne, it’s not just beef, it’s all the other products from the meaty parts, so fats, gelatines etc which were/are used in things like biscuits and cakes. There simply would be no way of guaranteeing you had avoided those. It’s too much of a risk for the blood service to take given the time it took to recover from the HIV case in the 80s(?) in Australia. They lost a lot of good will then so they wouldn’t risk it again, that and not risking the lives of recipients, most of whom are on maternity units or people requiring  regular transfusions.

Hope that explains it a bit.

In other news we can be organ donors, because organs are so hard to come by they consider the risk is worth taking. 😊

I actually hadn't thought about that, so thank you for enlightening me.   And yes I am on the donate organ list.... but being in my 70's I doubt they would want anything of me left!

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......Just trying to be helpful so don't shoot me down if my personal views do not coincide with yours! :animal-dog:

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3 minutes ago, Rossmoyne said:

NO

The facial recognition app is being used in the home quarantine trial for returning travellers. It's not for general use.

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20 hours ago, simmo said:

😂 Please don't get pio people popping mdna (ecstasy)

Woops.... Meant MRNA... sorry!!!!


......Just trying to be helpful so don't shoot me down if my personal views do not coincide with yours! :animal-dog:

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4 hours ago, rtritudr said:

AZ vaccines are viral vector vaccines:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_vector_vaccine

The very first viral vector vaccine to receive regulatory approval was an Ebola vaccine and the approval only came in November 2019 from the EU.  They have been used on an emergency basis prior to that in Africa.

If you want standard technology the only ones on offer right now are the Chinese/Indian vaccines using inactivated viruses.  Novavax could also been considered existing technology but you can't really get it right now.

Isnt Novovax still in testing on humans at Adelaide Uni?


......Just trying to be helpful so don't shoot me down if my personal views do not coincide with yours! :animal-dog:

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Almost 500,000 Pfizer doses secured under a vaccine swap deal with the UK touched down in Sydney yesterday. Another 3.5 million from the agreement between Australia and the UK, are due to arrive this month, while one million doses of Moderna are also expected to land in about a week. Moderna was approved by the TGA a few days ago so its good to go.

The fishing expedition continues for the Federal Government in terms of doing deals on vaccination stocks from other nations around the world. The millions of Pfizer stocks we ordered nearly 13 months ago never arrived in any such volume.

  

 

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9 hours ago, Rossmoyne said:

I actually hadn't thought about that, so thank you for enlightening me.   And yes I am on the donate organ list.... but being in my 70's I doubt they would want anything of me left!

I always like a rationale for things, I’m more accepting then! 😀

Well you never know, they use so many different bits of us these days! 

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Just to remind everyone that despite some very forthright views expressed on both sides there will always be much more that unites us than divides us.

 

 

C2DFE2C5-29D5-49AD-BEF9-BC1B9F4DABC1.jpeg

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11 hours ago, Rossmoyne said:

.   And yes I am on the donate organ list.... but being in my 70's I doubt they would want anything of me left!

Same here, but at 80 years old...

Cheers, Bobj.

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2 hours ago, Cup Final 1973 said:

Just to remind everyone that despite some very forthright views expressed on both sides there will always be much more that unites us than divides us.

 

 

C2DFE2C5-29D5-49AD-BEF9-BC1B9F4DABC1.jpeg

So lovely.  True friends with great respect for each other. 

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On 04/09/2021 at 10:30, Robert Dyson said:

It will be worse than it is now, but it won't be worse than it ought to be because what's coming is now predictable and backed up by evidence from other countries who have not fared so well.

Any lessons learned from poor performers will reduce the risk to Australia, whilst also needing to accept that there will be catastrophic outcomes for some but not as many as in countries where hospital's did get overwhelmed and they had poor early knowledge. 

This has given Australian health services plenty of time to change their workforces and recruitment requirements,  build new hospital infrastructure and expanded ICU's,  change model of care plans and functional processes,  embedding infection control to a pandemic level of requirement across all areas of public life,  stocking up on items that were previously scarce like breathing assistance machines and PPE,  using latest reseach to procure specific drugs which have now been proven to help, whilst using vaccination levels to more accurately predict how many beds they will need and how many people are going to die.   People hopefully will have been improving their own health by diet and exercise so will be better prepared to fight off inflammatory disease. 

The coming summer here and the respite this will bring with increasing vaccinations, and the coming winter in Europe will bring even more real-life data as to what will happen in Australia 9 months from now to a population that hopes to be 80-85% vaccinated.

There will be no 1st world nation on earth better prepared than Australia when we get past 80% vaccinations.

The biggest risk is that another variant appears, and that is what everybody should be most concerned about when observing countries who have removed all restrictions. If an India, or a UK, or a Brazil, produces another dangerous variant, that's something we would not look forward to.

 

Wishful thinking🤣

What have you seen from Australia's past behaviour that makes you think this?

Australia has demonstrated time and time again that it is incapable of learning from anyone's mistakes, NSW could even manage to learn form Victoria, let alone the rest of the world.

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23 minutes ago, unzippy said:

Wishful thinking🤣

What have you seen from Australia's past behaviour that makes you think this?

Australia has demonstrated time and time again that it is incapable of learning from anyone's mistakes, NSW could even manage to learn form Victoria, let alone the rest of the world.

I agree on the NSW bit fwiw…

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9 hours ago, simmo said:

I dont see an issue. Its been shown some people cannot stay home when told to do so and its being tried as way of freeing up quarantine spaces in hotels. If you are doing the right thing you should have no reason to complain IMO.

 Cal x

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If you don't go after what you want, you'll never have it. If you don't ask, the answer is always no. If you don't step forward, you're always in the same place...

If you get a chance,take it, If it changes your life,let it. Nobody said it would be easy they just said it would be worth it...

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10 hours ago, simmo said:

Amazing, since when have fox and breitbart been classed as civil liberty groups? 🤣

 

When I went to Tas for a funeral, Tas Police would text a link once a day.  I had to click on it, a map opened in the phone browser with my (the phones current location) that I submitted so that they knew I was where I was meant to be.

Seems to be a lot better use of the Police's time and resources than making home visits.

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On 05/09/2021 at 20:09, Rossmoyne said:

Exactly.   Have you researched what is in these "jabs"?   

No, what's in it?

I'm vaccinated and, no, I don't know what's in it - neither this vaccine, the ones I had as a child, nor in Big Mac sauce or in veggie hot dogs, or in other treatments.   Whether it's for cancer, AIDS, the one for polyarthritis, or vaccines for infants or children.  I trust my doctor when he says it’s needed.

I also don't know what's in Ibuprofen, paracetamol, or other meds, it just cures my headaches & my pains.
I don't know what's in the ink for tattoos or every ingredient in my soap or shampoo or even deodorants.  I don’t know the long term effect of mobile phone use or whether or not that restaurant I just ate at REALLY used clean foods and washed their hands.
In short ...
There's a lot of things I don't know and never will…
I just know one thing: life is short, very short, and I still want to do something other than just going to work every day or staying locked in my home. I still want to travel and hug people without fear and find a little feeling of life "before".
As a child and as an adult I've been vaccinated for mumps, measles, rubella, polio, chicken pox, and quite a few others.  My parents and I trusted the science and never had to suffer through or transmit any of said diseases .


I'm vaccinated, not to please the government but:
* To not die from Covid-19.
* To NOT clutter a hospital bed if I get sick.
* To hug my loved ones
* To not have to do PCR or antigenic tests to go to the pub, go to a restaurant, go on holidays and many more things to come.
* To live my life.

 

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11 hours ago, simmo said:

As with anything I would want to know what happens to the data if this is rolled out nationally, I see no reason for any data to be retained beyond the quarantine period. If they manage the privacy/data issues, then yes I would use it without any issue as long as its the individual's choice to do so. If people are made aware prior to travel and have an alternative option (i.e. a quarantine facility if needed) then they have made an infomred decision and surely cannot criticised being "forced" to use the app if selecting home quarantine.

Realistically, I cant see international travel working if 14 day quarantine is still needed. I hope we can move at least towards vaccinated people from so called safe countries travelling qurantine free, with unvaccinated people perhaps still doing quarantine. But once the population hits 80% or if lucky 90% vaccinated, it makes less and less sense to me. I'm still not clear how Australia would police arrivals from say Dubai, or Singapore or any other hub airport if travel returns to some sort of normality. Planes will arrive with people form all over the place, vaccinated and unvaccinated. Sure you can deal with them individually and let some through, send some to quarantine etc, but they've all been on the same plane and in the same airports mingling together. You end up with the potential situation of a vaccinated arrival with covid walking through quarantine free, potentially infecting others, while an unvaccinated arrival might not have covid and pose less risk, but being sent to quarantine.

It gets a bit messy once the borders open - airlines might not let unvaccinated people travel but I do wonder if that would persist due to legal challenge or bottom dollar for the airlines. Australia could also only allow arrivals from specific countries, but even the safe countries are riddled with covid and once its in the country and the population is highly vaccinated, itll spread like wildfire (presumably with low death rates due to vaccinations), so at that point why keep out arrivals from other countries? It's already here, we're already as safe as we'll ever be, why go to the expense and effort to tinker round the edges. I suppose we'll start seeing how it plays out in Australia in 2022.

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Surely once vaccination success gets to the percentage that allows those in Australia to live normal lives then people arriving from the same equivalent shouldn’t have to quarantine.  If for example I’ve come from a country with minimum 80% vaccination and I’ve had my jabs, I’m no different than any Australian walking about there, ive just been doing my walking about here.  I’m actually perhaps less risk as I will have a negative test 48 hours before flying and again on landing.  That’s two tests the average person in Australia won’t have had over a three day window.  

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On 05/09/2021 at 11:09, Rossmoyne said:
  On 01/09/2021 at 22:40, Marisawright said:

Long Covid (symptoms persisting for weeks or months after recovery) is a pest but it wouldn't be a great concern anyway.  What most experts are worried about is the hidden damage that causes shortened life expectancy and neurological illnesses later in life.

 

23 hours ago, Rossmoyne said:

Caused by covid or by the vaccine?  Genuine question as I have read so many conflicting views on this.

having the vaccine does not protect you from catching the virus.....it still happens....there are lots of people I have spoken to and lots of people I pesonally know who have still caught the virus even though double jabbed.

I think the simple answer is no medical expert will put their name to this claim of marisa's..... it is simply not proven.....there have been several studies carried out as I pointed out to marisa a week or so ago and none of them have any firm or solid evidence to suggest this is a fact....it was in fact suggested that some of these long covid sufferers could be increased due to the high level of media reporting and they used statistics such as a third of volunteers who tested the vaccines where given a placebo but still sufered the exact same side effects of headache.....sore arm etc etc

The brain thing is just not proven....the effects of loss of smell and taste could have itself caused the damage to the small area of the brain that has been noted and not the virus actually entering the brain.....although there have been links to Parkinsons etc caused by the Spanish flue pandemic again it has not been proven........scaremongering.....no need for it.

Edited by kungfustu
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