309 partnership visa applications

[Jet88]

Hi, my husband and I (along with our 17month old daughter) are wanting to move to australia (realistically not until the end of 2021 with everything going on) I am australian but have been in the UK for 9 years and ready to go home! My question is has anyone recently applied for the offshore 309 partnership visa from the UK and if so how long did it take? (I read it is up to 2 years! ) or has anyone moved to australia and then applied for a partnership visa for their spouse once they arrived in oz and if so what were these timescales? (My understanding is they can't work for 3 months) obviously trying to start all my research now as so much stuff to consider/research so I will no doubt be posting on here quite a fair bit! Many thanks  

[Jon the Hat]

I think the best advice is to get the application in asap and hope by the time you are ready to go you have progress.  If you don't then you go on a Visitor visa and let them know your husband is in Australia so they can notify if he needs to leave for the visa grant.  Upsides - it might all be sorted, downsides you might have an extended period in Australia where your husband cannot work as there is no bridging visa option.  Know that UK applications are usually a fair bit quicker than the global figures as the UK is not a high risk country for economic migration or documentation fraud.

Second option is to travel to Australia on holiday and then apply for a spouse visa onshore, which allows a bridging visa under which your husband can work.  Upsides you are there with the right to work, downsides it might take longer and some employers are not that keen on giving roles to people on bridging visas.  Note that it is a breach of visa conditions to enter Australia on a visitor visa with the plan to then apply for the spouse visa, and sometimes you might get a no further stay condition on that visa which blocks the application.  Expecially if you are clearly moving lock stock and barrel.

I hope this helps - I would personally defo go with apply now.

[Jon the Hat]

Also this is in the wrong forum, I would put it in Visa Chat.

[darch]

hi @Jet88 I just went through this last year - applied for 309 & 100 in April 2020, and they were granted first week of Jan. Lots of the London applications seem to currently being handled out of other Embassies. If you've not seen it there's a thread in the family visa chat about 309/100 timelines from London which also has a ton of useful advice about the process

Edited January 22, 2021 by darch

[paulhand]

15 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Note that it is a breach of visa conditions to enter Australia on a visitor visa with the plan to then apply for the spouse visa, 

No, it isn’t. 

[Jet88]

Thank you   I am still working out how to use the site ! Posted in the visa section now (I think) thanks 

[Jet88]

On 22/01/2021 at 16:47, darch said:

hi @Jet88 I just went through this last year - applied for 309 & 100 in April 2020, and they were granted first week of Jan. Lots of the London applications seem to currently being handled out of other Embassies. If you've not seen it there's a thread in the family visa chat about 309/100 timelines from London which also has a ton of useful advice about the process

Hey nice to see it only took 9 months (not 2 years) can I just ask what made u decide go go for offshore one rather than  just move to oz then apply when there? Thanks 

[Tmduk]

Mine took just over 11 months, applied July 2019.

[darch]

53 minutes ago, Jet88 said:

Hey nice to see it only took 9 months (not 2 years) can I just ask what made u decide go go for offshore one rather than  just move to oz then apply when there? Thanks 

sure thing - it was pretty straightforward for us. Work commitments mean we won't be making the move much before second half of this year anyway- our only real deadline was that we wanted to be in Australia in time for our eldest to start school in Jan 2022 - he'll be 4 by then. So when saw the timelines getting up past 18 months, decided to get the application in just in case it did take forever. Sounds like we're in similar boats - my wife is Aussie, and our two boys are dual citizens, so it was really just me holding us up! Good luck if you go ahead with an application!

[Marisawright]

On 23/01/2021 at 03:15, Jet88 said:

...has anyone recently applied for the offshore 309 partnership visa from the UK and if so how long did it take? (I read it is up to 2 years! ) or has anyone moved to australia and then applied for a partnership visa for their spouse once they arrived in oz and if so what were these timescales? (My understanding is they can't work for 3 months)

@Jet88, the processing times quoted are an average, and include people who have lived in high-risk countries and require extra security checks, which take longer.   Pre-covid, offshore applications were much faster than onshore ones, and London applications were faster than most others. However Covid has messed everything up and the situation keeps changing, so it's very hard to say what the processing time for your visa would be.  Personally, I'd think they should improve, because they have slashed the quotas for skilled visas so in theory, staff should be turning their attention to other visas instead. 

the  "not able to work for 3 months" comes from the fact that he'll be arriving on a visitor visa, which doesn't allow him to work.  You'll apply for the spouse visa and he'll be issued a bridging visa, but that won't come into effect until the tourist visa expires.  The bridging visa should have work rights, but he may find it difficult to get work because he's not on a permanent visa (employer prejudice and also, some jobs require you to hold PR). 

In your shoes, I'd be hiring an agent so you can get your application put together and submitted now.  Rules change all the time, and always to make life harder, not easier.  Better to get your application off and running now than wait to submit it in 9 months' time.   

[Jon the Hat]

On 23/01/2021 at 07:59, paulhand said:

No, it isn’t. 

I may have phrased that incorrectly, as I understand it and per the main page for the visitor visa you intention should be to visit only, and you probably have to declare that when you apply.  

You must

• intend to come to Australia to visit only
• have enough money for your stay in Australia
• not work in Australia

Edited January 25, 2021 by Jon the Hat

[Bobby Jindal]

Hi @Jet88

I would say it all depends on luck and circumstances.

My friend (UK Citizen) applied for the partner visa Dec 2019 and was granted his 309 Dec 2020.

I applied (Non UK Citizen) in September 2020 and got granted 8 Jan 2021 (4 months).

After being granted the visa your partner will have upto a year to activate the visa by visiting/moving to Australia. I am planning to activate mine in August, hopefully by then things will calm down a bit due to vaccinations.

If you are thinking about moving end of this year then I would suggest you apply now. Gathering and organizing all the required documents takes few months in itself.

I'll be happy to answer any specific question you have regarding the 309 visa application.

Wish you all the best.

 

[paulhand]

2 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

I may have phrased that incorrectly, as I understand it and per the main page for the visitor visa you intention should be to visit only, and you probably have to declare that when you apply.  

You must

• intend to come to Australia to visit only
• have enough money for your stay in Australia
• not work in Australia

Departmental policy says (as has been posted several times):

If an applicant applies for a visitor visa but intends to make a further visa application in Australia (whether this intention is stated or not), this does not necessarily indicate that the applicant does not intend a genuine temporary stay and is not a reason in and of itself to refuse the visitor visa. If the Regulations allow an application to be made in Australia by an FA-600 visa holder in Australia, s65 delegates should not be seeking to block this pathway.

In addition, an intention to apply for a further visa in Australia does not necessarily indicate that the person will not leave Australia before the FA-600 visa ceases. The question to consider is not “will this person apply for a visa in Australia” but rather, “if this person does not apply for another visa in Australia, or if they apply and are refused, will they abide by the conditions of the visa and will they leave Australia”. The answer to this will help to determine if the applicant intends a genuine temporary stay.

 

[Marisawright]

5 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

I may have phrased that incorrectly, as I understand it and per the main page for the visitor visa you intention should be to visit only, and you probably have to declare that when you apply.  

You must

• intend to come to Australia to visit only
• have enough money for your stay in Australia
• not work in Australia

It's crazy, because that wording couldn't be any more clear or definite, but that's not how the department is interpreting it now.  I'd love to know why they take such a lenient attitude.   It feels as though the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.  The government sets stricter quotas and higher eligibility standards to limit who comes to live in this country, resulting in long wait times if you apply offshore.  So Immigration takes pity on people and says, "don't worry, just rock up on a visitor visa, apply for any old visa, and hey presto, you can stay anyway!" 

Although I sympathise with partner and parent visa applicants facing long wait times, as a taxpayer it annoys me.  What's the point of a visa system if it's so easy to circumvent?  

 

[paulhand]

9 hours ago, Marisawright said:

It's crazy, because that wording couldn't be any more clear or definite, but that's not how the department is interpreting it now.  I'd love to know why they take such a lenient attitude.   It feels as though the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.  The government sets stricter quotas and higher eligibility standards to limit who comes to live in this country, resulting in long wait times if you apply offshore.  So Immigration takes pity on people and says, "don't worry, just rock up on a visitor visa, apply for any old visa, and hey presto, you can stay anyway!" 

Although I sympathise with partner and parent visa applicants facing long wait times, as a taxpayer it annoys me.  What's the point of a visa system if it's so easy to circumvent?  

 

I think the key is in the extract I quoted above: “The question to consider is not “will this person apply for a visa in Australia” but rather, “if this person does not apply for another visa in Australia, or if they apply and are refused, will they abide by the conditions of the visa and will they leave Australia”. The answer to this will help to determine if the applicant intends a genuine temporary stay.”. 
 

It’s no different with student visas where you have to demonstrate that you are a genuine temporary entrant, yet there are a number of valid post graduate pathways/visas and you even get extra points for having studied in Australia.
 

I don’t think it’s a matter of interpretation or ‘loop holes’, the law is clear that you are allowed to make certain visa applications onshore. Therefore, anyone legally making such an application is not circumventing anything. If the government actually wanted to close any particular pathway, it could just pass legislation prohibiting that pathway. 
 

 

[Marisawright]

55 minutes ago, paulhand said:

I don’t think it’s a matter of interpretation or ‘loop holes’, the law is clear that you are allowed to make certain visa applications onshore. 

 

I'm not disputing that it's legal currently, although how the government can decide to interpret "intend to visit only" as "intend to visit OR intend to arrive and apply for a visa" is beyond me.  However as a taxpayer, I don't think it should be legal.  Their Medicare costs are coming out of my pocket.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Marisawright

[ali]

On 23/01/2021 at 00:24, Jon the Hat said:

Also this is in the wrong forum, I would put it in Visa Chat.

Done

[paulhand]

2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

I'm not disputing that it's legal currently, although how the government can decide to interpret "intend to visit only" as "intend to visit OR intend to arrive and apply for a visa" is beyond me.  However as a taxpayer, I don't think it should be legal.  Their Medicare costs are coming out of my pocket.

As you know, the bridging visas associated with onshore partner, and many other, applications have full work rights and most applicants are only too keen to work and pay taxes. Most people I deal with in this situation are frustrated it takes so long for the bridging visa to kick in.

The issue, to my mind, is about properly resourcing the Department so that applications are processed in a sensible and reasonable time frame, rather than trying to stop people making onshore applications. 

[DrDougster]

3 hours ago, Marisawright said:

I'm not disputing that it's legal currently, although how the government can decide to interpret "intend to visit only" as "intend to visit OR intend to arrive and apply for a visa" is beyond me.  However as a taxpayer, I don't think it should be legal.  Their Medicare costs are coming out of my pocket.

I think it's impressive that you have the strength in you to worry about that fraction of government expenditure rather than the other ridiculous ways they spend money!

I also don't get the thought process that results in not wanting to contribute to someone's healthcare based on whether or not they have the right visa.

The crazy, woke lefty liberal coming out in me perhaps?

[Marisawright]

9 hours ago, DrDougster said:

I think it's impressive that you have the strength in you to worry about that fraction of government expenditure rather than the other ridiculous ways they spend money!

I also don't get the thought process that results in not wanting to contribute to someone's healthcare based on whether or not they have the right visa.

I'm not losing sleep over it, it's the fact that the whole thing is bonkers. Here's the current situation:  The government has done research showing that parent visa holders cost the country astronomically more than they contribute, so they've set a very small annual quota to avoid that cost.  The result is a waiting list of at least 8 years, but they don't want admit that - bad publicity, I suppose - so on their official website, it says 3-4 years.  Even some agents will quote that figure because it's the official one. Therefore there are many parents stuck overseas in a massive queue, who naively believed what they were told. 

Meanwhile, other parents have discovered there's another option which, although legal, is not admitted to on any official channels - forget the quota, the long wait, and the massive visa fee,  just sneak in on a tourist visa, and get a bridging visa, possibly for the rest of your life.  So tell me, what is the point of the government setting the small quota to keep parents out, when you can just arrive by the back door?

Meanwhile, the government chunters about how well they're doing keeping ïllegal" migrants out,  and refuses visas to refugees with legitimate asylum claims.  

Edited January 26, 2021 by Marisawright

[DrDougster]

I'll be impressed if you can find legislation that doesn't have any potential loophole, especially when a body is seeking to control something be that funding, jobs, vaccinations or visas. How do you think lawyers, agents and psychiatrists are kept off the streets and in gainful employment? 

But, thanks for highlighting what might be a very useful pathway should one of my parent's find themselves alone. (And, I assure you my tax and other contributions will cover any cost they may bring. It's impossible to accurately cost and value people - just ask Lord Sumption!)

Edited January 27, 2021 by DrDougster

[Marisawright]

9 minutes ago, DrDougster said:

But, thanks for highlighting what might be a very useful pathway should one of my parent's find themselves alone. (And, I assure you my tax and other contributions will cover any cost they may bring. It's impossible to accurately cost and value people - just ask Lord Sumption!)

Glad I could help.  However, as a medical professional, I'd expect you to be well aware of the costs.  The government did a research project which you can look up.  The NHS also did a study recently which showed that the elderly cost the NHS four times as much as younger people.  Your parents will come to Australia and enjoy full access to Medicare for, say, 20 years, having made no contributions to offset that.  Your taxes pay for your old age, not theirs.

[DrDougster]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

Glad I could help.  However, as a medical professional, I'd expect you to be well aware of the costs.  The government did a research project which you can look up.  The NHS also did a study recently which showed that the elderly cost the NHS four times as much as younger people.  Your parents will come to Australia and enjoy full access to Medicare for, say, 20 years, having made no contributions to offset that.  Your taxes pay for your old age, not theirs.

I am well aware of the estimated costs. I think people sometimes equate this to value. Cost-wise I think I've got more than just my old age covered by my tax and insurance! I fully expect to pay this for the role I have in the functioning society I am a part of.

Edited January 27, 2021 by DrDougster

[Marisawright]

2 minutes ago, DrDougster said:

I am well aware of the estimated costs. I think people sometimes equate this to value. Cost-wise I think I've got more than just my old age covered by my tax and insurance! I fully expect to pay this for the role I have in the functioning society I am a part of.

Not disputing that.  I also have no quarrel with parents who obtain a parent visa through the official method and have paid the appropriate fees and passed the requisite checks.   

[Jet88]

On 25/01/2021 at 17:47, Bobby Jindal said:

Hi @Jet88

I would say it all depends on luck and circumstances.

My friend (UK Citizen) applied for the partner visa Dec 2019 and was granted his 309 Dec 2020.

I applied (Non UK Citizen) in September 2020 and got granted 8 Jan 2021 (4 months).

After being granted the visa your partner will have upto a year to activate the visa by visiting/moving to Australia. I am planning to activate mine in August, hopefully by then things will calm down a bit due to vaccinations.

If you are thinking about moving end of this year then I would suggest you apply now. Gathering and organizing all the required documents takes few months in itself.

I'll be happy to answer any specific question you have regarding the 309 visa application.

Wish you all the best.

 

Thanks @Bobby Jindal I think we are going to take the other route and move there when ready and he can arrive on visitor visa then apply for partnership visa there. It just feels like the time frames change so much with applying offshore its impossible to plan anything and if things improve and we can move at the end of the year then I want to do that and not have the risk of not being able to go as still waiting for his visa!

Hope your move goes well!