Transitioning to a New Life

[Marisawright]

On 05/11/2020 at 01:47, DavidIII said:

Hi, my wife has a big family and a close knit circle of friends and she's not looking forward to the prospect of leaving them behind. ....  My wife does quite a lot of keep fit classes here and I hope that doing some there, and working she'll soon build up a network, even though I know it won't be the same for her.  Our daughter who's about to turn 15 I hope will start to build up some new friends when she starts school.

In that case, I hope your wife has always been as eager as you to move to Australia, because then, even if she's unhappy, it was her choice - and that will help her keep things in proportion.  If you're the one who has always driven the idea of moving to Australia, be prepared to bend over backwards for her once you've arrived as she will need all your care and support. 

What happens is that the less-keen partner moves thinking, "It's better for our famly and I want to make him happy".  But then when she (or he) arrives and is desperately lonely and homesick for family and friends, the thinking changes to, "This is all his fault for dragging me halfway round the world".  Resentment kicks in, and she starts to hate everything about Australia - not because life is bad, but because it's the cause of her misery.  It could be a paradise and she'd still hate it.  You don't want that to happen because once it does, it's over.  She'll eventually go home, with or without you.

I do hope that's totally irrelevant to your situation, but I felt you need to be aware of the risk.

Your daughter will be fine.  At that age she's got time to build up her friendships at school/college/university.  

Edited November 6, 2020 by Marisawright

[Quoll]

6 hours ago, Marisawright said:

In that case, I hope your wife has always been as eager as you to move to Australia, because then, even if she's unhappy, it was her choice - and that will help her keep things in proportion.  If you're the one who has always driven the idea of moving to Australia, be prepared to bend over backwards for her once you've arrived as she will need all your care and support. 

What happens is that the less-keen partner moves thinking, "It's better for our famly and I want to make him happy".  But then when she (or he) arrives and is desperately lonely and homesick for family and friends, the thinking changes to, "This is all his fault for dragging me halfway round the world".  Resentment kicks in, and she starts to hate everything about Australia - not because life is bad, but because it's the cause of her misery.  It could be a paradise and she'd still hate it.  You don't want that to happen because once it does, it's over.  She'll eventually go home, with or without you.

I do hope that's totally irrelevant to your situation, but I felt you need to be aware of the risk.

Your daughter will be fine.  At that age she's got time to build up her friendships at school/college/university.  

This!!!!

As for the 15 year old girl - yr 9 girls can be b!tches from hell with established cliques, I hope she is lucky and doesnt fall foul of any of them but it's potentially a very uncomfortable age to be trying to get into a friendship group. Yrs 11 and 12 seem to be a bit more human and humane.

[starlight7]

I agree about Year 9 - funny age when peer group pressure seems to be at the max. There will be plenty of gym and keep fit things in Adelaide.  I wonder if she has ever thought of running a group herself if she has experience? When we came many years ago with 2 babies I used to teach creative writing to adults at a community centre- dead easy way to make friends. Get local papers and join things that you are interested in nearby. Adelaide has a good friendly feel about it, probably easier to make friends there than a big city like Sydney. 

[MARYROSE02]

On 07/11/2020 at 01:09, Ausvisitor said:

Where is th ehouse in Sydney and what is the area round your house like (transport, shops, community)  - looking to start thinking about regions to move to when we get there

Surry HIlls, which is just to the south and south east of the CBD (Central Business District - I had sudden thought we don't use that term in the UK?) The advantages are its closeness to everything, walking distance to most of the things you need, and excellent public transport - walk to Central station, 1 - 3 stops to the CBD, trains and trams everywhere else in Sydney, 20 minutes drive, 30 minutes by bus or train / bus to Eastern Suburbs beaches like Bondi, Bronte, Clovelly and Coogee.

Disadvantages? There are few free-standing houses/bungalows with decent gardens and most people live in apartments or terrace houses although plenty of families live in those terraces BUT they are expensive, compared to what you can buy or rent further out in the 'burbs although your commuting time (to the CBD) goes up the further you go away from the CBD. But if your job is out in the 'burbs, you might consider living there anyway.

My brother and my niece both live in Spring Farm, a "new" (i.e all new homes) near Camden and Campbelltown, about 60 km south west of the CBD. They both have lovely homes, brand-new, four bedrooms, two bathrooms, and my one bedroom flat would fit into their lounge rooms. But to commute to the CBD means bus or car to Campbelltown, then an hour on the train, or similar times driving all the way in usually heavy traffic.

I don't have a car and on the few occasions I wanted to drive  I used "Go Get" which allows you to rent new cars by the hour from convenient locations all around my suburb - 100 metres, 150 metres, 200 metres. Out in the 'burbs a car is a necessity and preferably two because public transport is not usually as good and you are outside walking distance from services.

There are a number of similar suburbs to Surry Hills just outside the CBD - East Sydney, Kings Cross, Potts Point, Elizabeth Bay, Wooloomooloo (did I spell that right?), Darlinghurst, Redfern, Newtown, Glebe, and over the Harbour Bridge, Kirribilli, North Sydney, Neutral Bay, all worth considering if you like that lifestyle. One of my mates lives in Kiribilli, so one or two stops on the train to the CBD or walk over the Harbour Bridge in 20-25 minutes.

I love going to the beach but I did not want to live on one because you have to commute back to the CBD but that is just me who hates commuting. Bondi Junction is a nice compromise - train to CBD in a few minutes and the same by bus or walk down to Bondi Beach. I have another friend who has just bought a home in Bondi Jn - lots of facilities, walk to everything.

That was just supposed to be a short note!

[Marisawright]

8 minutes ago, MARYROSE02 said:

Surry HIlls, which is just to the south and south east of the CBD (Central Business District

It should be said that it's not a house, it's an apartment. I'd imagine it's worth about $1 million now?

Edited November 8, 2020 by Marisawright

[MARYROSE02]

6 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

It should be said that it's not a house, it's an apartment. I'd imagine it's worth about $1 million now?

My apartment? I doubt it, around 600K, towards $700K. Of course, here in Surfers I could buy a similar unit for  300 to 400k. There is a two bedroom, two bathroom (vital), one car space in 'Monte Carlo', 38 Orchid Ave, same street as us, for $395,000, furnished too, with beach views. I must admit that whilst I've passed the building I've never been inside, but imagine the 'worst' unit on the 'worst' Sydney beach (I'm not going to diss anybody's favourite beach!) What would that go for? 

I was just thinking that 40 years ago, maybe even 30, you could pick up a nice unit at Bondi, Cronulla maybe, Narrabeen where  I used to live. All water under the bridge but I also remembered that, 40 years ago, I was in Perth, living in a hostel and  scrabbling for any kind of c**p job I could find, having left a nice little job in England and equally nice home life.

But no room for regrets now?

 

[Marisawright]

56 minutes ago, MARYROSE02 said:

My apartment? I doubt it, around 600K, towards $700K.

I guess it's a 1 bedroom then?  I just looked on domain.com.au and there isn't a 2 bedroom even listed for less than $750,000.   Our little two bedroom townhouse in Oatley (the back of beyond compared to your place), which we sold for $600,000 in 2014, is worth $1.2 million now.  A 2 bedroom townhouse!  Crazy.

[HappyHeart]

I think managing your expectations is key. Knowing that establishing yourselves and feeling at home might take months or even years. 

Not stressing about 'fitting in'. You're here as one of a long line of immigrants each bringing their own skills and adding to the rich diversity of Australia.

Don't be fooled into thinking Australians are 'this' or 'that' and don't pretend to like stuff you don't (like AFL) in order to be accepted.

That said don't harp on about 'back home' and make comparisons. This is Australia and things are inevitably different. Sometimes better, sometimes not.

Be you and you'll settle quickly and well. 

Be prepared to have periods of intense longing for people and familiarity, particularly in tough times and times of family illness. 

Overall embrace the opportunity to try it and be thankful for the opportunity. We are lucky to have choices. Be happy and good luck! 

 

Edited November 8, 2020 by HappyHeart

[MARYROSE02]

21 hours ago, Marisawright said:

I guess it's a 1 bedroom then?  I just looked on domain.com.au and there isn't a 2 bedroom even listed for less than $750,000.   Our little two bedroom townhouse in Oatley (the back of beyond compared to your place), which we sold for $600,000 in 2014, is worth $1.2 million now.  A 2 bedroom townhouse!  Crazy.

One bedroom, with a little courtyard as well as a balcony and a lock up garage on a separate title. My brothers have been pushing me to sell it but I'm not so sure. One of my friends said "What happens if your brother moves away; you might want to move back down to Sydney?" That unit has always been 'home' for me. I moved back into it after 12 years in England. Perhaps I shall wait until next year. Of course Covid hangs over us all like a malignant cloud despite my brother telling me it's all bullshit.

I liked Oakley when I drove there once - one of those suburbs with bit of a 'village' vibe???

[Marisawright]

59 minutes ago, MARYROSE02 said:

One bedroom, with a little courtyard...My brothers have been pushing me to sell it but I'm not so sure. One of my friends said "What happens if your brother moves away; you might want to move back down to Sydney?" That unit has always been 'home' for me. 

I liked Oakley when I drove there once - one of those suburbs with bit of a 'village' vibe???

I think your friend is right.  That was your home for a long time, you love it, and there is a slim chance you might want to move back there one day.  So it would make a lot more sense to keep it and rent it out (with a good agent, and be very fussy about tenants).    

If you need money to buy a property in Surfers, then sell your British place instead.  After all, there's little or no chance you'll want to go back there now. It's just an investment property.  Yes, there will be capital gains tax to pay - but I can never understand people who get upset about that.  You're only paying the tax because you made a nice big profit. Get over it!   

If you don't need money to buy a property, don't sell either of them--there's nowhere you can get a decent return on the money, so it's probably better off in the properties. 

It's Oatley not Oakley and yes, it has a real village feel.

Edited November 9, 2020 by Marisawright

[Tulip1]

6 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

One bedroom, with a little courtyard as well as a balcony and a lock up garage on a separate title. My brothers have been pushing me to sell it but I'm not so sure. One of my friends said "What happens if your brother moves away; you might want to move back down to Sydney?" That unit has always been 'home' for me. I moved back into it after 12 years in England. Perhaps I shall wait until next year. Of course Covid hangs over us all like a malignant cloud despite my brother telling me it's all bullshit.

I liked Oakley when I drove there once - one of those suburbs with bit of a 'village' vibe???

From what you post it comes across as your brothers do seem to try pushing you to do things. You do what feels right for you, thats all that matters. If you want to keep your place and can afford to then keep it for as long you want.  Sorry if I’ve read it wrong but it just sounds a bit unusual.and I recall reading it a few times.  

Edited November 9, 2020 by Tulip1

[Jon the Hat]

I would go as far as to say if you need some equity to buy in Surfers then borrow against your Sydney home and still keep it.  Literally no benefit in exiting the Sydney property market unless you really have to! 

[FirstWorldProblems]

On 08/11/2020 at 12:34, HappyHeart said:

 

That said don't harp on about 'back home' and make comparisons. This is Australia and things are inevitably different. Sometimes better, sometimes not.

 

 

Oh gawd, I cringe at how I behaved.  Putting a St George cross on the back of my motorbike and another on my crash helmet, deliberately emphasising the British way of pronouncing words (e.g. Data) and just generally finding way to emphasise my Britishness and drawing comparisons.  

When get go back, the one thing I definitely will not be is an Expat.  I'll be an immigrant and I'll be focussed on integrating, not standing aside. 

[Bulya]

10 hours ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

Oh gawd, I cringe at how I behaved.  Putting a St George cross on the back of my motorbike and another on my crash helmet, deliberately emphasising the British way of pronouncing words (e.g. Data) and just generally finding way to emphasise my Britishness and drawing comparisons.  

When get go back, the one thing I definitely will not be is an Expat.  I'll be an immigrant and I'll be focussed on integrating, not standing aside. 

I did that for a few years.  Then realised I was a pommy tosser and it was time to grow up.  So many never do...

[DrDougster]

It really is states rather than nominal counties so there are state driving licences and "reggos" (actually spelt rego) which is Aus for car registration (including plate and paperwork). The highest member of state government is grandly known as The Premier and they make many decisions completely independent of national decisions such as taxation and government salaries.

[MARYROSE02]

On 10/11/2020 at 00:42, FirstWorldProblems said:

Oh gawd, I cringe at how I behaved.  Putting a St George cross on the back of my motorbike and another on my crash helmet, deliberately emphasising the British way of pronouncing words (e.g. Data) and just generally finding way to emphasise my Britishness and drawing comparisons.  

When get go back, the one thing I definitely will not be is an Expat.  I'll be an immigrant and I'll be focussed on integrating, not standing aside. 

An expat is: Someone who is at home abroad and abroad at home? I don't know where I read that, probably on PIO or somewhere similar. It sticks on my mind because, depending upon the situation, I've slipped into Aussie mode - "Whingeing Pommies, if you don't like it here, go back home" and, in English mode, hearing Aussies criticise 'us'

"What is this BS you are spouting about England." 

The only time I emphasize my Englishness or Pommieness, is when I put on a Spurs shirt on the night we have a game, and to be honest, at least half of the Spurs fans I know are Aussies not Pommies.

Edited November 10, 2020 by MARYROSE02

[Jon the Hat]

26 minutes ago, MARYROSE02 said:

An expat is: Someone who is at home abroad and abroad at home? I don't know where I read that, probably on PIO or somewhere similar. It sticks on my mind because, depending upon the situation, I've slipped into Aussie mode - "Whingeing Pommies, if you don't like it here, go back home" and, in English mode, hearing Aussies criticise 'us'

"What is this BS you are spouting about England." 

The only time I emphasize my Englishness or Pommieness, is when I put on a Spurs shirt on the night we have a game, and to be honest, at least half of the Spurs fans I know are Aussies not Pommies.

It was all making perfect sense until you revealed yourself as a Spurs fan.  Such a shame we pipped you to first ahead of the international break.  

[DrDougster]

I've just realised nobody has mentioned coffee or gelato.

Unless you've spent a lot of time in Italy and adopted their standards then you're in for a treat!

[Lavers]

11 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

It was all making perfect sense until you revealed yourself as a Spurs fan.  Such a shame we pipped you to first ahead of the international break.  

Enjoy it whilst you can before beat you next week and go top

[Marisawright]

12 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

An expat is: Someone who is at home abroad and abroad at home?

That's a nice poetic definition of the ideal expat, but the practical definition of an expat is "someone who is living or working abroad temporarily".  If you call yourself an expat, you may (or may not) enjoy and appreciate the country you're living in, but you still regard your country of origin as home.    

[MARYROSE02]

On 09/11/2020 at 12:10, Marisawright said:

I think your friend is right.  That was your home for a long time, you love it, and there is a slim chance you might want to move back there one day.  So it would make a lot more sense to keep it and rent it out (with a good agent, and be very fussy about tenants).    

If you need money to buy a property in Surfers, then sell your British place instead.  After all, there's little or no chance you'll want to go back there now. It's just an investment property.  Yes, there will be capital gains tax to pay - but I can never understand people who get upset about that.  You're only paying the tax because you made a nice big profit. Get over it!   

If you don't need money to buy a property, don't sell either of them--there's nowhere you can get a decent return on the money, so it's probably better off in the properties. 

It's Oatley not Oakley and yes, it has a real village feel.

Yes, Oatley. Come to think of it I may have been confusing it with Oakhurst??? Something like that out near Rooty Hill (wonderful name?)

I shall see after Xmas and New Year. The house in the UK has been on my mind for a while, thinking about moving my personal effects which I stored in the loft, out here then selling the house. Tying a loose end up perhaps rather than a desperate need to sell. I do get an income from it.

And my unit in Sydney was my home for a long time and I may suddenly get the urge to go "home." I am both a ditherer and overly sentimental about places I have lived.

Thanks for the advice!

[Marisawright]

37 minutes ago, MARYROSE02 said:

Yes, Oatley. Come to think of it I may have been confusing it with Oakhurst??? Something like that out near Rooty Hill (wonderful name?)

I shall see after Xmas and New Year. The house in the UK has been on my mind for a while, thinking about moving my personal effects which I stored in the loft, out here then selling the house. Tying a loose end up perhaps rather than a desperate need to sell. I do get an income from it.

And my unit in Sydney was my home for a long time and I may suddenly get the urge to go "home." I am both a ditherer and overly sentimental about places I have lived.

Oatley is down towards Cronulla.   It has a huge village green and it even has a clock tower.  The butcher and fruit shop used to be excellent, no idea if they're still there.  If you do head back to Sydney, it's a pleasant train ride on the Cronulla line.  Then it's only a few more stops to Cronulla and the beach. I always thought I'd never like anywhere as much as the Eastern Suburbs but I really liked Oatley. 

With the current low interest rates, property is a good investment, so I wouldn't be in a hurry to sell either property if you don''t need the money.  If you rent out Sydney, you might find that the rental from both properties pays for the rent on a nice place in Surfers - then you have it all, while keeping the convenience of moving if and when you want to.

[MARYROSE02]

21 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

It was all making perfect sense until you revealed yourself as a Spurs fan.  Such a shame we pipped you to first ahead of the international break.  

For fifteen minutes I felt on top of the world! I H.A.T.E. the International Breaks. Two weeks of no league football just to watch meaningless international games.

[MARYROSE02]

6 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Oatley is down towards Cronulla.   It has a huge village green and it even has a clocker.  The butcher and fruit shop used to be excellent, no idea if they're still there.  If you do head back to Sydney, it's a pleasant train ride on the Cronulla line.  Then it's only a few more stops to Cronulla and the beach. I always thought I'd never like anywhere as much as the Eastern Suburbs but I really liked Oatley. 

With the current low interest rates, property is a good investment, so I wouldn't be in a hurry to sell either property if you don''t need the money.  If you rent out Sydney, you might find that the rental from both properties pays for the rent on a nice place in Surfers - then you have it all, while keeping the convenience of moving if and when you want to.

More good advice, Marisa. I think i went to Oatley by car when I was living with my brother in Picnic Point. Next to Mortdale? or somewhere like that. I just remembered thinking it had a 'village' atmosphere rather than 'just' a suburb. Real Estate agents love to describe some suburbs as vlllages?

I rather like the set up here - 'proper' apartment but with the benefits of a first class hotel - reception, coffee shop, pool, etc, and wonderful location.

[MARYROSE02]

9 hours ago, Marisawright said:

That's a nice poetic definition of the ideal expat, but the practical definition of an expat is "someone who is living or working abroad temporarily".  If you call yourself an expat, you may (or may not) enjoy and appreciate the country you're living in, but you still regard your country of origin as home.    

 When i went back to England, even though I was there for twelve years, and could have easily have stayed longer, my "domicile" was always Australia, something HMRC acknowledged after I'd been there for about 5 years, because I always intended to return to Australia, where my only (owned) home was.

I guess for many people it's either a temporary or a permanent mindset, plus, or including the people who genuinely don't feel "at home, abroad" but when they get "home" they miss "abroad!?"

I wonder too, if it's not so much the country of origin as the part of the country that you are from that is important. In my case,  OK Dave, we know you are homesick but you can't go back to the New Forest, how does Hartlepool sound, or Barrow? Nothing wrong with either but completely alien to me.