Aged Parent visa - Subclass 804 - Canadian

[z1987]

Hi,

I want to have my Canadian parents move to Australia and live with us. Through our own research this is the plan so far (of course when the borders open and allows non-residents to enter Australia):

1. Parents enter Australia on an ETA visa (Subclass 601)
2. They apply for the Aged Parent visa (Subclass 804) onshore

Questions I have are:

1. Is there a longer visitor visa my parents can apply for instead of the ETA that allows them to apply for the 804 visa onshore? I ask because my father turns 65 early 2022 and we want them here ASAP. I don't mind having them on a visitor for 6 months to a year if it's possible.
2. I'm aware they will be on a bridging visa for a long time while waiting for the outcome of 804. Are they entitled to Medicare? I recall back in 2009, I had full Medicare cover while on a bridging visa waiting for my spouse visa; it was a blue Medicare card.
3. My mother will be under 65 when my father is eligible to apply for 804. Would she be entitled to work while on the bridging visa?
4. Any idea how long the queue might actually be for 804?
5. Is there a better option(s) to the plan I have above (ETA -> 804 onshore)?

Thanks!

[SusieRoo]

1 hour ago, z1987 said:

I want to have my Canadian parents move to Australia and live with us. Through our own research this is the plan so far (of course when the borders open and allows non-residents to enter Australia):

You are not technically allowed to enter on a tourist visa if you intend to apply for another visa while onshore. Also I think you have to be 66 or over to apply for an aged parent visa.

[paulhand]

1 hour ago, SusieRoo said:

You are not technically allowed to enter on a tourist visa if you intend to apply for another visa while onshore.

Technically (and practically), you are ...

 

3 hours ago, z1987 said:

Hi,

I want to have my Canadian parents move to Australia and live with us. Through our own research this is the plan so far (of course when the borders open and allows non-residents to enter Australia):

1. Parents enter Australia on an ETA visa (Subclass 601)
2. They apply for the Aged Parent visa (Subclass 804) onshore

Questions I have are:

1. Is there a longer visitor visa my parents can apply for instead of the ETA that allows them to apply for the 804 visa onshore? I ask because my father turns 65 early 2022 and we want them here ASAP. I don't mind having them on a visitor for 6 months to a year if it's possible.
2. I'm aware they will be on a bridging visa for a long time while waiting for the outcome of 804. Are they entitled to Medicare? I recall back in 2009, I had full Medicare cover while on a bridging visa waiting for my spouse visa; it was a blue Medicare card.
3. My mother will be under 65 when my father is eligible to apply for 804. Would she be entitled to work while on the bridging visa?
4. Any idea how long the queue might actually be for 804?
5. Is there a better option(s) to the plan I have above (ETA -> 804 onshore)?

Thanks!

I would suggest that you get some professional advice that is tailored to your specific set of circumstances as these are quite bespoke. Your enquiry is not best served with forum questions. Latest update from the Department on processing times: "New Parent and Aged Parent visa applications lodged that meet the criteria to be queued are likely to take approximately 30 years for final processing."

[z1987]

5 hours ago, SusieRoo said:

You are not technically allowed to enter on a tourist visa if you intend to apply for another visa while onshore. Also I think you have to be 66 or over to apply for an aged parent visa.

For those turning 65 in 2022 (born 1957), looks like the pension age is still 65 https://www.dss.gov.au/seniors/benefits-payments/age-pension

[Canada2Australia]

2 hours ago, z1987 said:

For those turning 65 in 2022 (born 1957), looks like the pension age is still 65 https://www.dss.gov.au/seniors/benefits-payments/age-pension

I looked into this for my mother as well. At this stage in her life (also born 1957) it is just not practical to even attempt applying for such a visa. She would likely be too old and frail, or dead, by the time it is approved. So it would be an excercise in futility (and a waste of money) I'm afraid.

Edited November 2, 2020 by Canada2Australia

[z1987]

56 minutes ago, Canada2Australia said:

I looked into this for my mother as well. At this stage in her life (also born 1957) it is just not practical to even attempt applying for such a visa. She would likely be too old and frail, or dead, by the time it is approved. So it would be an excercise in futility (and a waste of money) I'm afraid.

The idea is not for it to get approved actually (as the 30-year wait is ridiculous even for someone in their 40s), although that would be a great plus! The idea is to get them here in Australia ASAP and it seems the best way to do that is to have them live here on a bridging visa. This is why I'm concerned about health cover and work rights on a bridging visa for those applying to 804. The 30-year wait is a big issue for those who don't have passports that allow them to get an ETA and will be forced to wait 30 years offshore.

[wrussell]

If a visa applicant dies waiting, the VAC is refundable. If a sponsor dies the minister trousers the VAC/s and cries all the way to the bank.

[Marisawright]

2 hours ago, z1987 said:

The idea is not for it to get approved actually (as the 30-year wait is ridiculous even for someone in their 40s), although that would be a great plus! The idea is to get them here in Australia ASAP and it seems the best way to do that is to have them live here on a bridging visa. This is why I'm concerned about health cover and work rights on a bridging visa for those applying to 804. The 30-year wait is a big issue for those who don't have passports that allow them to get an ETA and will be forced to wait 30 years offshore.

The 30 year wait is a big issue for everyone.  While on the bridging visa, your parents are only temporary residents in Australia and will have no rights to any benefits or support.  As Canadians, they will be able to get  Medicare under the reciprocal agreement (nothing to do with the bridging visa), so check out the conditions of that.   

However, that doesn't give them access to things like pensioners' rates on prescriptions, the Safety Net for prescriptions, aged care, or any of the other benefits available to Australian permanent residents.  I believe that in Canada, there are a number of benefits available to seniors and pensioners, and losing those could have a big impact on their living costs - so it would be wise to look into what that would be, exactly.

Also look at the impact on pensions.  As they don't have PR, they won't ever get the Australian government pension, so what impact does living overseas have on the Canadian one? 

If they wish to buy a home, they will have to apply to FIRB for permission (for a fee) and also pay a hefty Foreign Buyers' fee on the purchase.  For a $500,000 property, it's about $40,000.

As you probably know, they will  not be allowed to leave the country while on a bridging visa, and will need to apply for permission (a BVB) every time they want to go on holiday. 

For many parents on the 804, they'll probably die before the visa is granted.  If they are young enough to still be alive, it's another potential risk.  They'll have to undergo a medical, and if they fail, they can be deported back to Canada and have to start their lives again from scratch - not an easy task in one's 80's or 90's.  And I haven't mentioned the risk that the government could delete the 804 visa in the coming years (they already tried to do it once, but couldn't get it through parliament).  

 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by Marisawright

[Alan Collett]

6 hours ago, z1987 said:

For those turning 65 in 2022 (born 1957), looks like the pension age is still 65 https://www.dss.gov.au/seniors/benefits-payments/age-pension

Looks like 67 to me ...

Best regards.

[Alan Collett]

14 hours ago, z1987 said:

Hi,

I want to have my Canadian parents move to Australia and live with us. Through our own research this is the plan so far (of course when the borders open and allows non-residents to enter Australia):

1. Parents enter Australia on an ETA visa (Subclass 601)
2. They apply for the Aged Parent visa (Subclass 804) onshore

Questions I have are:

1. Is there a longer visitor visa my parents can apply for instead of the ETA that allows them to apply for the 804 visa onshore? I ask because my father turns 65 early 2022 and we want them here ASAP. I don't mind having them on a visitor for 6 months to a year if it's possible.
2. I'm aware they will be on a bridging visa for a long time while waiting for the outcome of 804. Are they entitled to Medicare? I recall back in 2009, I had full Medicare cover while on a bridging visa waiting for my spouse visa; it was a blue Medicare card.
3. My mother will be under 65 when my father is eligible to apply for 804. Would she be entitled to work while on the bridging visa?
4. Any idea how long the queue might actually be for 804?
5. Is there a better option(s) to the plan I have above (ETA -> 804 onshore)?

Thanks!

I anticipate the absence of Medicare will be a material risk issue for you and your parents. 

There is no Reciprocal Health Care Agreement between Australia and Canada.

Best regards.

[Marisawright]

15 minutes ago, Alan Collett said:

I anticipate the absence of Medicare will be a material risk issue for you and your parents. 

There is no Reciprocal Health Care Agreement between Australia and Canada.

Oh, ouch.  I saw that the OP had managed to get a blue Medicare card on her bridging visa (for the partner visa) so I assumed. My mistake.  

@z1987 - no Medicare means your parents will need to pay for full Overseas Visitors health insurance every year.  The good thing is that it covers more things than the health insurance available to permanent residents - the bad news is that it's more expensive.  

@ramot used to be on another visa that had no access to Medicare.  If you're well off, it's manageable - however I know that many people on that visa were eventually obliged to give up and go home, because it was  becoming too costly to pay their healthcare costs in Australia. 

Edited November 3, 2020 by Marisawright

[ramot]

27 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Oh, ouch.  I saw that the OP had managed to get a blue Medicare card on her bridging visa (for the partner visa) so I assumed. My mistake.  

@z1987 - no Medicare means your parents will need to pay for full Overseas Visitors health insurance every year.  The good thing is that it covers more things than the health insurance available to permanent residents - the bad news is that it's more expensive.  

@ramot used to be on another visa that had no access to Medicare.  If you're well off, it's manageable - however I know that many people on that visa were eventually obliged to give up and go home, because it was  becoming too costly to pay their healthcare costs in Australia. 

We were on the long term self funded retirement 410 visa, not available any more. I would say on average more people are still here than moved back. In our group there were a few from africa, so their access to pensions etc was very different, and they could go to UK, where there was more access to state help and free NHS, also several of them were the ones sadly fleeced by an unscrupulous financial investor 

Quite a few that I know including us have now got PR through the pathway 143.

Depends of course on your definition of ‘well off’. We certainly aren’t millionaires, We all came before 2005, the visa was very cheap, and not expensive to be renewed every 10 years. It was easy to buy a property, they were much cheaper then, had to be checked by the FIRB at low cost. As Marisa says the main increasingly high cost was health insurance. But Our prescriptions were on the PBS, so not too expensive. Most people from UK have pensions from their work which can be index linked so might keep up with inflation? plus the frozen state pension. We could also work, my husband did occasionally. It was a really good visa to enable you to come and live here

[Marisawright]

11 minutes ago, ramot said:

there were a few from africa, so their access to pensions etc was very different, and they could go to UK, where there was more access to state help and free NHS

One thing that has changed since then is the British Government's crackdown on "health tourism", so they're no longer allowing British citizens living abroad to pop home to get free NHS treatment.  You have to show proof of a permanent UK address now before you can claim benefits etc, I believe.   

I don't know what Canada's attitude would be to non-resident citizens flying home to get free treatment in Canada, but it would be very important for the OP to check.  After all, though we all hate to think about it, we all die of something - usually something that requires very expensive health care - so that cost will be something she'll have to face at some point.

[ramot]

33 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

One thing that has changed since then is the British Government's crackdown on "health tourism", so they're no longer allowing British citizens living abroad to pop home to get free NHS treatment.  You have to show proof of a permanent UK address now before you can claim benefits etc, I believe.   

I don't know what Canada's attitude would be to non-resident citizens flying home to get free treatment in Canada, but it would be very important for the OP to check.  After all, though we all hate to think about it, we all die of something - usually something that requires very expensive health care - so that cost will be something she'll have to face at some point.

I will clarify, everyone who went back to UK from our group who were ex Africa went back for good, so they weren’t health tourists. They all had the right to live in UK.

[z1987]

5 hours ago, Marisawright said:

The 30 year wait is a big issue for everyone.  While on the bridging visa, your parents are only temporary residents in Australia and will have no rights to any benefits or support.  As Canadians, they will be able to get  Medicare under the reciprocal agreement (nothing to do with the bridging visa), so check out the conditions of that.   

However, that doesn't give them access to things like pensioners' rates on prescriptions, the Safety Net for prescriptions, aged care, or any of the other benefits available to Australian permanent residents.  I believe that in Canada, there are a number of benefits available to seniors and pensioners, and losing those could have a big impact on their living costs - so it would be wise to look into what that would be, exactly.

Also look at the impact on pensions.  As they don't have PR, they won't ever get the Australian government pension, so what impact does living overseas have on the Canadian one? 

If they wish to buy a home, they will have to apply to FIRB for permission (for a fee) and also pay a hefty Foreign Buyers' fee on the purchase.  For a $500,000 property, it's about $40,000.

As you probably know, they will  not be allowed to leave the country while on a bridging visa, and will need to apply for permission (a BVB) every time they want to go on holiday. 

For many parents on the 804, they'll probably die before the visa is granted.  If they are young enough to still be alive, it's another potential risk.  They'll have to undergo a medical, and if they fail, they can be deported back to Canada and have to start their lives again from scratch - not an easy task in one's 80's or 90's.  And I haven't mentioned the risk that the government could delete the 804 visa in the coming years (they already tried to do it once, but couldn't get it through parliament).  

 

 

 

There is no reciprocal agreement between Australia and Canada. My father would receive full pension from Canada no matter where he lives, not my mother though. We're not worried about travel issues as applying for permission is a simple thing or aged care/buying a home as they will be living with us in the same house for the rest of their lives.

But it is a risk and I am not happy with the plan but it seems like the only option we've got to bring them here  

[z1987]

3 hours ago, Alan Collett said:

Looks like 67 to me ...

Best regards.

No, it's 65 before 1 July 2023 then it will become 67

[z1987]

2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

One thing that has changed since then is the British Government's crackdown on "health tourism", so they're no longer allowing British citizens living abroad to pop home to get free NHS treatment.  You have to show proof of a permanent UK address now before you can claim benefits etc, I believe.   

I don't know what Canada's attitude would be to non-resident citizens flying home to get free treatment in Canada, but it would be very important for the OP to check.  After all, though we all hate to think about it, we all die of something - usually something that requires very expensive health care - so that cost will be something she'll have to face at some point.

Canada is now like the UK, you have to be residing in Canada to get health cover. Plus who would want to fly all the way to Canada for an emergency operation at the age of 75? UK is slightly closer 

[Alan Collett]

35 minutes ago, z1987 said:

No, it's 65 before 1 July 2023 then it will become 67

If born in 1957 you become entitled to the age pension when you are aged 67 - so I think you'll find there's no lodgement of a subclass 804 visa application until the older of your parents is 67.

Best regards.

 

[Toots]

11 hours ago, z1987 said:

For those turning 65 in 2022 (born 1957), looks like the pension age is still 65 https://www.dss.gov.au/seniors/benefits-payments/age-pension

Definitely 67 years old if born after 1st January 1957.  https://www.challenger.com.au/personal/retirement/be-retirement-ready/retirement-age

[z1987]

3 minutes ago, Toots said:

Definitely 67 years old if born after 1st January 1957.  https://www.challenger.com.au/personal/retirement/be-retirement-ready/retirement-age

The government site https://www.dss.gov.au/seniors/benefits-payments/age-pension says under Age Requirements:

Quote

The pension age will be gradually increased from 65 to 67 years as set out in the table below.

 

[Alan Collett]

1 minute ago, z1987 said:

The government site https://www.dss.gov.au/seniors/benefits-payments/age-pension says under Age Requirements:

 

Yes, and those born in 1957 must be 67 to be entitled to the Age Pension.

Best regards.

[z1987]

1 minute ago, Alan Collett said:

Yes, and those born in 1957 must be 67 to be entitled to the Age Pension.

Best regards.

So what does this column "Date pension age changes" mean in the table?

[Alan Collett]

7 minutes ago, z1987 said:

So what does this column "Date pension age changes" mean in the table?

It's a good question - and arguably not helpful.

Have a look here also: https://guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/3/4/1/10

(scroll down to

Pension age for both men & women born on or after 1 July 1952)

In particular look at the example.

Best regards.

[SusieRoo]

2 hours ago, z1987 said:

There is no reciprocal agreement between Australia and Canada. My father would receive full pension from Canada no matter where he lives, not my mother though. We're not worried about travel issues as applying for permission is a simple thing or aged care/buying a home as they will be living with us in the same house for the rest of their lives.

But it is a risk and I am not happy with the plan but it seems like the only option we've got to bring them here  

You could always apply for a 143 visa now then a temp 870 visa when borders reopen. This would allow your parent to reside in Australia until they have PR and negate the risk of making a false declaration when entering on a tourist visa.

[paulhand]

13 minutes ago, SusieRoo said:

and negate the risk of making a false declaration when entering on a tourist visa.

We have discussed this "issue" before in other threads ... what false declaration would they be making?

Departmental policy is:

Intention to make a further application in Australia

If an applicant applies for a visitor visa but intends to make a further visa application in Australia (whether this intention is stated or not), this does not necessarily indicate that the applicant does not intend a genuine temporary stay and is not a reason in and of itself to refuse the visitor visa. If the Regulations allow an application to be made in Australia by an FA-600 visa holder in Australia, s65 delegates should not be seeking to block this pathway.

In addition, an intention to apply for a further visa in Australia does not necessarily indicate that the person will not leave Australia before the FA-600 visa ceases. The question to consider is not “will this person apply for a visa in Australia” but rather, “if this person does not apply for another visa in Australia, or if they apply and are refused, will they abide by the conditions of the visa and will they leave Australia”. The answer to this will help to determine if the applicant intends a genuine temporary stay.