Relocating to Perth

[MARYROSE02]

6 hours ago, Canada2Australia said:

I could sit here and debate with you for hours (especially with regards to the Canadian geographical reference as you appear to be unaware of the proximities of our other major cities between Toronto and Vancouver which don't even come close to the Perth isolation factor), but I would think we both have better things to do with our time. I will simply reiterate that facts are facts;  Perth is literally one of the most isolated cities on the planet. No getting around that huge factor one I'm afraid. 

If you enjoy living in Perth, then that is all that should matter for you 

It is a fact but an irrelevant one which people quote incessantly as if it matters. Here's another irrelevant fact: Perth is much closer to Europe than the eastern states of Australia and you can fly direct to London non-stop. Not quite so isolated now.

If Perth had a population of 2,000 instead of 2,000 000 then it might matter.

[Marisawright]

41 minutes ago, MARYROSE02 said:

It is a fact but an irrelevant one which people quote incessantly as if it matters. ...

If Perth had a population of 2,000 instead of 2,000 000 then it might matter.

That's a matter of personal opinion. It might not matter to you, but it does matter a great deal to other people, as we've seen from posts on these forums.  It's not up to you to tell them they're not allowed to feel what they feel.

Besides, it's not just about the person living in Perth and what they do on a day to day basis.  It's about what comes to Perth. 

Edited November 28, 2020 by Marisawright

[MARYROSE02]

30 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

That's a matter of personal opinion. It might not matter to you, but it does matter a great deal to other people, as we've seen from posts on these forums.  If that's how people feel, it's not up to you to tell them they're not allowed to feel what they feel.

Yes, but it seems to me that stating that "Perth is the most isolated city in the world" is often used as a kind of scare tactic to deter people from going there,  implying that if they go there they will be "trapped" in a tiny town when in fact it is a large and modern city of 2 million people.

Yes, Perth is a long way from Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane, but on the other hand, if going to the UK and Europe is important to you, then Perth has considerable advantages over those other cities,

By European standards all of the Australian cities are isolated from each other. "Remember, if you live in Sydney, you will be 600 miles from the next big city, and it is the same if you go to Melbourne, Brisbane or Adelaide. So don't imagine you can just jump in your car and in two or three hours you are in the next city."

 

Edited November 28, 2020 by MARYROSE02

[Marisawright]

12 minutes ago, MARYROSE02 said:

By European standards all of the Australian cities are isolated from each other. "Remember, if you live in Sydney, you will be 600 miles from the next big city, and it is the same if you go to Melbourne, Brisbane or Adelaide. So don't imagine you can just jump in your car and in two or three hours you are in the next city."

 

True, but if you look at the number of towns and cities in NSW and Victoria, there are lots within easy driving distance of both Sydney and Melbourne. If you are in Perth, how many cities and towns can you visit for a day out?  I don't know the number, but I know it's not nearly as many.   If you're the kind of person who needs a lot of variety in their life, that will be a problem.  

The other factor is cost.  If you live in Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane, it's an hour or two on the plane and there are lots of cheap deals all the time. If you live in Perth, it's three or four hours on the plane, double the price and not nearly as many cheap deals.  More to the point for a new migrant, if they choose Perth and then can't get a job, it will cost them thousands of dollars to ship their household to Sydney or Melbourne because of the distance.  Whereas if they start out on the Eastern seaboard, there's lots of competition amongst removalists and it's even feasible to rent a van and DIY because it's only a day's drive.  

Edited November 28, 2020 by Marisawright

[Drumbeat]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

True, but if you look at the number of towns and cities in NSW and Victoria, there are lots within easy driving distance of both Sydney and Melbourne. If you are in Perth, how many cities and towns can you visit for a day out?  I don't know the number, but I know it's not nearly as many.   If you're the kind of person who needs a lot of variety in their life, that will be a problem.  

The other factor is cost.  If you live in Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane, it's an hour or two on the plane and there are lots of cheap deals all the time. If you live in Perth, it's three or four hours on the plane, double the price and not nearly as many cheap deals.  More to the point for a new migrant, if they choose Perth and then can't get a job, it will cost them thousands of dollars to ship their household to Sydney or Melbourne because of the distance.  Whereas if they start out on the Eastern seaboard, there's lots of competition amongst removalists and it's even feasible to rent a van and DIY because it's only a day's drive.  

I have lived in Perth for 30 years and the only time I see Perth's isolation mentioned is on this forum! Most migrant's to Perth just accept it's a long way from Sydney and Melbourne and instead enjoy the close proximity to Asia for travel opportunities.

[rtritudr]

22 minutes ago, Drumbeat said:

I have lived in Perth for 30 years and the only time I see Perth's isolation mentioned is on this forum! Most migrant's to Perth just accept it's a long way from Sydney and Melbourne and instead enjoy the close proximity to Asia for travel opportunities.

If you're moving to Australia, one of the most isolated countries on Earth, then being in an "isolated" city like Perth is going to be the least of your worries.

[Paul1Perth]

22 hours ago, Canada2Australia said:

I'm not suggesting that every single person will feel isolated living in Perth. Obviously plenty will not feel any isolation at all. 

What I a saying is that Perth's isolation from other major centres will and does play a factor in many people's lives.  There are many people that enjoy being able to drive to other large cities in a relativelt short period of time (12 hours or one day's drive) or access other large cities by air within an hour or two. It does play a role in people choosing where they want to establish themselves. One of the first things people learn about Perth when they research facts about the city is that it is the 2nd most isolated major city in the world,  next to Honolulu. That is a fact, and a pretty major fact at that. 

I've never known true isolation until I lived in Darwin. And I have nothing against Perth, in fact I quite like it there, but it is simply too far away from anywhere for me. So I will likely never choose it as a place I want to live. 

Darwin would feel a lot further away from places than Perth. You still need to get on a plane to get anywhere and Darwin is very small. Nothing like a City size.

[MARYROSE02]

3 hours ago, Marisawright said:

True, but if you look at the number of towns and cities in NSW and Victoria, there are lots within easy driving distance of both Sydney and Melbourne. If you are in Perth, how many cities and towns can you visit for a day out?  I don't know the number, but I know it's not nearly as many.   If you're the kind of person who needs a lot of variety in their life, that will be a problem.  

The other factor is cost.  If you live in Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane, it's an hour or two on the plane and there are lots of cheap deals all the time. If you live in Perth, it's three or four hours on the plane, double the price and not nearly as many cheap deals.  More to the point for a new migrant, if they choose Perth and then can't get a job, it will cost them thousands of dollars to ship their household to Sydney or Melbourne because of the distance.  Whereas if they start out on the Eastern seaboard, there's lots of competition amongst removalists and it's even feasible to rent a van and DIY because it's only a day's drive.  

That is true too but when people talk about Perth's isolation they are usually talking about its distance from other major cities, not the number of small towns within an easy drive. Perth does have a number of country towns within easy driving distance too.  I did a few of them on a week's road trip out to York then south to Albany and back up to Perth.

It would be interesting to know how many people who emigrate to Australia become unhappy with their first port of call and then move to another part of Australia, as opposed to going back to the UK, and if there is a chart of the most unpopular states/cities. I did, of course, move on myself from my first point of call - Perth - via Adelaide to Sydney. 

I thought most migrants organized a job before they came to Australia? I don't know that course. I just assumed it to be so. There's another question I would like to find a definitive answer to; Do people who hate Perth hate Australia too, or are they willing to try somewhere else (if they can afford to get there?)

[MARYROSE02]

1 hour ago, Paul1Perth said:

Darwin would feel a lot further away from places than Perth. You still need to get on a plane to get anywhere and Darwin is very small. Nothing like a City size.

I just need a decent pub or two, cafe or two, plenty of shops, somewhere nice to walk like a riverbank or a beach, and an excellent public transport system. Come in Surfers Paradise. My home suburb, Surry Hills ticked all those boxes, apart from beach or riverbank of course but I loved walking the inner city, and I thought South Perth was pretty good too - South Perth Esplanade opposite the city, wonderful by day or night, Windsor Hotel, Mends Street shops.

I'm sorry though Paul. I'm not living anywhere in the far suburbs even if it's on the beach! Where did you say that Scouser you met in the pub toilets was from? Kingsley? I looked that up, 20km from the CBD? No thanks! It's possible that walking distance to a station might be acceptable,

I just Googled "Spring Farm NSW to Surry Hills NSW" - my brother's home to my home - and it's even further than I thought - 65km, an hour's drive if there is not traffic but 2 hours using public transport if you have to get the bus to the station. That is probably why my nephew who works in the CBD moved to Padstow. No wonder my brother says he lives in "North Goulburn" rather than "South Western Sydney."

What is the commute like from Perth's furthest suburbs to the CBD? That might be an interesting comparison to other state capital cities? You know, depending upon your budget and the type of home you want, you might elect to move to a "new build" estate out in the far burbs of a city and put up with the commute.

By the way, why did you choose Perth/WA when you migrated? My original plan was to go to Queensland first but then I found a good deal which involved flying to Singapore, then ship to Fremantle.

 

 

[Paul1Perth]

2 minutes ago, MARYROSE02 said:

I just need a decent pub or two, cafe or two, plenty of shops, somewhere nice to walk like a riverbank or a beach, and an excellent public transport system. Come in Surfers Paradise. My home suburb, Surry Hills ticked all those boxes, apart from beach or riverbank of course but I loved walking the inner city, and I thought South Perth was pretty good too - South Perth Esplanade opposite the city, wonderful by day or night, Windsor Hotel, Mends Street shops.

I'm sorry though Paul. I'm not living anywhere in the far suburbs even if it's on the beach! Where did you say that Scouser you met in the pub toilets was from? Kingsley? I looked that up, 20km from the CBD? No thanks! It's possible that walking distance to a station might be acceptable,

I just Googled "Spring Farm NSW to Surry Hills NSW" - my brother's home to my home - and it's even further than I thought - 65km, an hour's drive if there is not traffic but 2 hours using public transport if you have to get the bus to the station. That is probably why my nephew who works in the CBD moved to Padstow. No wonder my brother says he lives in "North Goulburn" rather than "South Western Sydney."

What is the commute like from Perth's furthest suburbs to the CBD? That might be an interesting comparison to other state capital cities? You know, depending upon your budget and the type of home you want, you might elect to move to a "new build" estate out in the far burbs of a city and put up with the commute.

By the way, why did you choose Perth/WA when you migrated? My original plan was to go to Queensland first but then I found a good deal which involved flying to Singapore, then ship to Fremantle.

 

 

We chose Perth because we liked the climate, houses were cheaper and neither of us like big cities. We both love the beach too. Used to have a timeshare in Portugal at Praia Da Oura, when it was a small development and when we started going to the Australian Embassy in Manchester they had a library where you could do research. Obviously before the internet. I remember reading a book that compared the climate and the coastline of Perth to the Algarve and thought that will do us then. Spot on as it turned out.

Perths furthest suburbs, the newer ones are a long way out and the train and freeway don't go that far yet. I have a friend I worked with lives in Yanchep. He's loving working from home as it would be a good hours drive.

If you've looked where Kingsley is you can catch the train, which goes down the middle of the freeway, is cheap and a regular service, specially in rush hour, 10 minutes wait would be tops and be either in town, centre of Perth or Elizabeth Quay in 30 minutes. Trains run late, are usually on time and are a brilliant option for going in to Perth for a meal, drinks, to see bands etc. Don't have to worry about parking, drink driving. 

Me and the wife have had a couple of days at the Crowne this week. They are running special deals at the moment. $450 for 2 nights in a massive room with river and City views, valet parking, bottle of champagne in the room, late checkout Friday and breakfast included at the excellent Atrium buffet. Took us half an hour to get their on the freeway, checked out at 12:00 Friday, car waiting outside and we were home by 12:30. Felt like we'd had a really good break.

The traffic and well designed freeways and train mean you can get to places pretty quick in Perth, as long as you don't go in rush hour. I know Sydney and Melbourne were a nightmare to drive anywhere. Public transport was decent in those though too. Because I was always there with work we were in the middle of the action at the holiday inn at potts point, so no need to drive anywhere.

[Marisawright]

3 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

I thought most migrants organized a job before they came to Australia? I don't know that course. I just assumed it to be so. There's another question I would like to find a definitive answer to; Do people who hate Perth hate Australia too, or are they willing to try somewhere else (if they can afford to get there?)

The great majority of PR migrants arrive without a job, because very few employers are willing to offer a job to someone who can't attend an interview. 

Some people who hate Perth do hate Australia - they probably shouldn't have migrated in the first place. But a lot of them, I think, just don't take to the city.  I have friends who moved from Sydney to Perth, they are very happy and say they much prefer Perth.   But on the other hand, I have friends who moved from Perth to Sydney, they were never happy in Perth and adore Sydney. 

But that's what I was saying. If someone arrives in Perth and doesn't like it, it's a big expense to try moving elsewhere in Australia, and new migrants have to decide - do I risk the rest of my savings to move East, or do I cut my losses and go home?  Whereas if they're already on the East coast, they can get to interviews in Queensland and NSW and move at a much lower cost, so they're more likely to give Oz a second chance. 

Edited November 28, 2020 by Marisawright

[MARYROSE02]

7 hours ago, rtritudr said:

If you're moving to Australia, one of the most isolated countries on Earth, then being in an "isolated" city like Perth is going to be the least of your worries.

Assuming that "isolation" is a problem in the first place, whatever "isolation" means? For me, for instance, isolation means not being able to walk to most of the things I need, and in Surfers Paradise, I CAN walk for all those things. But for some people isolation means not being able to get into their cars and drive to shopping malls and the like.

I just checked the population of Tasmania - 515,000 as compared to Perth's (but not WA's) population of 2 million. Which place is more isolated?

[MARYROSE02]

3 hours ago, Marisawright said:

The great majority of PR migrants arrive without a job, because very few employers are willing to offer a job to someone who can't attend an interview. 

Some people who hate Perth do hate Australia - they probably shouldn't have migrated in the first place. But a lot of them, I think, just don't take to the city.  I have friends who moved from Sydney to Perth, they are very happy and say they much prefer Perth.   But on the other hand, I have friends who moved from Perth to Sydney, they were never happy in Perth and adore Sydney. 

But that's what I was saying. If someone arrives in Perth and doesn't like it, it's a big expense to try moving elsewhere in Australia, and new migrants have to decide - do I risk the rest of my savings to move East, or do I cut my losses and go home?  Whereas if they're already on the East coast, they can get to interviews in Queensland and NSW and move at a much lower cost, so they're more likely to give Oz a second chance. 

Interesting theory but if you followed that advice nobody would move to WA and as I said, judging by PIO's posts by state, WA is far and away the most popular. And as Perth is so much closer to the UK, then presumably the cost of getting there is less than getting to the Eastern States. 

Sydney to Melbourne is a much more attractive option than Sydney to Perth (1 hour versus 5 hours) BUT what about comparing London to Perth as opposed to London to Sydney (17 hours versus 22/23 hours and direct flight versus two legs or more?)

[MARYROSE02]

5 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

We chose Perth because we liked the climate, houses were cheaper and neither of us like big cities. We both love the beach too. Used to have a timeshare in Portugal at Praia Da Oura, when it was a small development and when we started going to the Australian Embassy in Manchester they had a library where you could do research. Obviously before the internet. I remember reading a book that compared the climate and the coastline of Perth to the Algarve and thought that will do us then. Spot on as it turned out.

Perths furthest suburbs, the newer ones are a long way out and the train and freeway don't go that far yet. I have a friend I worked with lives in Yanchep. He's loving working from home as it would be a good hours drive.

If you've looked where Kingsley is you can catch the train, which goes down the middle of the freeway, is cheap and a regular service, specially in rush hour, 10 minutes wait would be tops and be either in town, centre of Perth or Elizabeth Quay in 30 minutes. Trains run late, are usually on time and are a brilliant option for going in to Perth for a meal, drinks, to see bands etc. Don't have to worry about parking, drink driving. 

Me and the wife have had a couple of days at the Crowne this week. They are running special deals at the moment. $450 for 2 nights in a massive room with river and City views, valet parking, bottle of champagne in the room, late checkout Friday and breakfast included at the excellent Atrium buffet. Took us half an hour to get their on the freeway, checked out at 12:00 Friday, car waiting outside and we were home by 12:30. Felt like we'd had a really good break.

The traffic and well designed freeways and train mean you can get to places pretty quick in Perth, as long as you don't go in rush hour. I know Sydney and Melbourne were a nightmare to drive anywhere. Public transport was decent in those though too. Because I was always there with work we were in the middle of the action at the holiday inn at potts point, so no need to drive anywhere.

Crowne? Is that the casino at Burswood? I went there a few times to watch Spurs if the game was after midnight as most of the pubs were closed by midnight.  If it was an earlier game I would go to "Irish" pub in Subiaco - Rosie O'Gradys maybe (unless that is name of one i went to in Northbridge) the "Spurs'" pub in Perth, though there may also be a club where they go.

I was impressed by the way the train goes down the middle of the north/south freeway, and, forgive me for being patronising, but I thought "Rush Hour? They would not even report this kind of traffic as a jam in Sydney!" Sydney is a jam from 7am to 10pm 7 days a week, ok slight exaggeration but I could genuinely go for a pleasant drive in Perth.

Potts Point is much the same as Surry Hills, could be the same post code even. When my car failed the rego, I did not bother to get a new one (though I loved having a car) but most places I could walk, get public transport, or occasionally get a Go Get car by the hour if I really needed to drive somewhere.

No internet for me either when I was planning my trip to OZ so I scoured libraries all over Southampton. Had I have got a job in Perth I think I would have stayed although who knows, I might have had the urge to see the Eastern States.

[MARYROSE02]

8 hours ago, Drumbeat said:

I have lived in Perth for 30 years and the only time I see Perth's isolation mentioned is on this forum! Most migrant's to Perth just accept it's a long way from Sydney and Melbourne and instead enjoy the close proximity to Asia for travel opportunities.

3 hours to Bali compared to 5 to Sydney (though it's more like 3 and bit going east with the tail wind?) If your work required you  to travel to Sydney and Melbourne, well that it something to  live with, but what other reason would you need to make that journey on a regular basis?

[Marisawright]

5 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

Interesting theory but if you followed that advice nobody would move to WA and as I said, judging by PIO's posts by state, WA is far and away the most popular. 

That proves nothing.  So many migrants arrive with stars in their eyes, it probably never occurs to them that Perth won't be perfect and that they might need to move.  And even if it did, the difference in cost (of moving from Perth to Sydney vs, say, Brisbane to Sydney) wouldn't be on their radar.

Most people on these forums move to Perth because most of them are Poms.  Historically, it has been a destination for thousands of Brits. That means many British people know someone who migrated to Perth, either in their generation or earlier generations. So naturally, it's the first place they think of.  Whereas you'll notice Indian and Chinese migrants gravitate to Melbourne or Sydney because they know more people who migrated there. 

[starlight7]

Have to say I have come across some(3 or 4) from Perth who left because of the number of British migrants there.  Not sure why but they all said it was a very 'closed' group.  Is that true? They were British themselves. I have never heard that about Melbourne but then we don't know many British people here.

[Paul1Perth]

42 minutes ago, starlight7 said:

Have to say I have come across some(3 or 4) from Perth who left because of the number of British migrants there.  Not sure why but they all said it was a very 'closed' group.  Is that true? They were British themselves. I have never heard that about Melbourne but then we don't know many British people here.

Never noticed any 'closed' groups. You get groups of close friends from all walks of life and nationalities that have things in common and like each others company that hang around together. 

They might seem closed to some but if you have the same interests most people I've met are very welcoming. We meet a lot of new migrants still, mostly bringing kids to the surf club and everyone we know are always interested in their journey and try and make them feel welcome. 

You always get the odd one who doesn't like the beach, the heat, the ocean and TBH they are never going to fit in with folks from the surf club.

[starlight7]

I think the ones I have met wouldn't have been beach types so perhaps that was the issue. Guess we all have out little niches where we feel at home.

[starlight7]

Also I think isolation is partly a state of mind thing- I felt isolated when we lived in Tassie even though I had 4 little kids and belonged to various groups. Just felt as though I had to get away back up to the other island. 

[Skani]

11 hours ago, starlight7 said:

Also I think isolation is partly a state of mind thing- I felt isolated when we lived in Tassie even though I had 4 little kids and belonged to various groups. Just felt as though I had to get away back up to the other island. 

I think it's wholly a state of mind.  I have no negative feelings about being on this island since I moved back 40 years ago and have absolutely no wish to go to the mainland at all.  Everything I need/want is here.

[starlight7]

11 minutes ago, Skani said:

I think it's wholly a state of mind.  I have no negative feelings about being on this island since I moved back 40 years ago and have absolutely no wish to go to the mainland at all.  Everything I need/want is here.

Also maybe because I was born,bred and brought up near the centre of London?

[Toots]

3 minutes ago, starlight7 said:

Also maybe because I was born,bred and brought up near the centre of London?

......................  and i was born and bred on a fairly remote hill farm in Scotland.  Always disliked cities and crowds.  When I was 25 I was working in London - first time ever in a large city -  and really didn't like it at all but I met my husband there so put up with it for a year or so.  Now I really enjoy visiting London.  Without a doubt, Edinburgh is my favourite city - other than that I have no interest in  them.  Like @Skani  I have no negative feelings about living in Tasmania.  I wouldn't go back to the mainland now.

[MARYROSE02]

On 28/11/2020 at 15:09, Drumbeat said:

I have lived in Perth for 30 years and the only time I see Perth's isolation mentioned is on this forum! Most migrant's to Perth just accept it's a long way from Sydney and Melbourne and instead enjoy the close proximity to Asia for travel opportunities.

To be honest I don't think I ever heard anyone in Sydney say "Thank God Melbourne and Brisbane are only 600 miles away. I hate being a long way from other cities"

[s713]

'Isolation of Perth' meant a few things to me. Firstly, it drives your basic prices sky-high because you're dealing with a finite market. Eating and drinking out in Perth costs a fortune, much more than it does anywhere else. More importantly, when you're looking at travelling anywhere it takes ages. There is absolutely nob-all of worth (maybe 1 visit) North of Perth unless you like driving 10 hours to find somewhere the same after the same again after the same again to visit. Going South is marginally better but doesn't take that long to become utterly tedious. We did 4 'down South' visits to box it off. After that, where you going to go? Bali, acquired taste, cheap and nasty. SE Asia? Wasn't for me. 'Closer to Europe'? A day's flight isn't close in my book.

Took 3 or 4 years for me to feel like I'd 'done' it.