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How Long before you realised that Australia was or was not the place that you wanted to spend the rest of your days ?

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14 hours ago, newjez said:

In the suburbs of Perth, you are in your house with the curtains closed because of the glare, or you get in your car in your garage and drive out after opening the electric door.

You have just described my suburb to a tea 😂

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On 18/11/2020 at 11:42, Marisawright said:

I wonder, if a Londoner moved to the Valleys, how long it would take him to be accepted and make real friends?

That would be interesting 😉, I am welsh myself (North Wales not the valleys where snoozy is from), we the welsh can sometimes be viewed as being a bit insular and unwelcoming on one end of the scale but on the other end we are some of the most welcoming friendly people you will meet, and I am happy and proud to say that I am one of those, I love all parts of the UK England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales and am equally comfortable breaking bread with a Londoner (or Aussie 😂)  as I am with a fellow Taffy 😀

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57 minutes ago, bug family said:

That would be interesting 😉, I am welsh myself (North Wales not the valleys where snoozy is from), we the welsh can sometimes be viewed as being a bit insular and unwelcoming on one end of the scale but on the other end we are some of the most welcoming friendly people you will meet, and I am happy and proud to say that I am one of those, I love all parts of the UK England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales and am equally comfortable breaking bread with a Londoner (or Aussie 😂)  as I am with a fellow Taffy 😀

I'm not Welsh myself, but I have friends who are Welsh and I found them very friendly and welcoming. 

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8 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

That's not the Perth I know and love. Maybe they do that in Mt Lawley, not where we live.

On a nice day the parks and beaches are packed with people, even in winter. There must be 100 cafes and coffe shops down the coast between where we live and Fremantle, probably more, plus pubs, surf clubs. They are packed even during the week. In fact that's where you'll find the "stay at home mums" out with their mates and prams. My son works at a beachside dome and the young mums with kids are a mainstay during the week.

I agree with you Paul! Am I biased? I certainly have a soft spot for Perth because it is where I started off in Australia although I only spent a month there before moving to Sydney. However, when I went to Perth in December, 2017, to meet up with a friend who had also moved from Sydney, that was my first time in WA since 1997 (and that was just a two night stop over on my way to Sydney from England, with two nights in Johannesburg too.

I was in WA for seven weeks, all of them in Perth bar 5 nights in Margaret River, and all the time in Perth staying in South Perth. I think on the second night there, if not the first night, I went to the Windsor Hotel and I went there almost every night until I returned to Sydney.. I became a 'local', got to know some of the staff - the usual crowd, same as in Sydney and Surfers, i.e. Aussies and 'foreigners' - Scots, Brazilians. I also went to the "Spurs" pub in Subiaco - possibly Rosie O'Gradies? Spurs, like many other UK teams have pubs in all the major cities. They made me welcome  - again, usual mixture of Aussies and Pommies.

Three month later,  came over for a second trip, and this time stayed in a few places - Canning Bridge or Applecross - flat opposite the 24 hr IGA, so my local was Raffles, same deal as the Windsor, Northbridge for a week, Irish pubs, South Perth for a week, Windsor again, plus a week down to Albany. After the second trip I realized that to move from Sydney was a big step with all my family in Sydney, still had a job there too and a circle of friends, so I decided not to move over to Perth.

This year was different because my friend in Perth invited me over to stay with her. £$%^ ing Covid - border closed then border with QLD opened and I came up to see my brother. As I said, same deal as with Sydney coming back after 12 years, and going to Perth. Find local pub(s) to go to, ditto cafes, In the Surf Club  tonight, sitting with four people who have become friends whom I never knew four months ago.

I am not especially outgoing, unlike my brother, who would walk into a new place and introduce himself to everyone there.  I take my time, get to know people. Their nationality or where they come from in Australia (or the UK) is irrelevant.

The question is: Am I doing something right, or wrong?!

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22 hours ago, newjez said:

There is definitely a Mt Lawley crowd.

Mt Lawley was traditionally an Italian/Greek area. Originally (in the 50s) on the outskirts of the city. Market gardeners and the like. It was blessed with a very good high school. Better than many private schools. Still is, so it became a magnet for those with money, but not quite enough money to send their kids private. It became gentrified, and a lot of the Italians moved out. I tend to find that it is the nearly rich who are much more snobby than the rich.

The maylands crowd were much more friendly

Maylands? I had to look it up on the map. Does every suburb in Perth have its own "crowd?" Of course, people love to stereotype different parts of a city - "Tony Abbott Land", "The Shire" "Yummy ethnic food", "Bogans".  But I never really thought of most suburbs having their own "crowd". Perhaps some people, jealous people, look down their noses at certain suburbs.

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8 hours ago, bug family said:

Not being picky Paul, but between Mandurah (where I am ) and Fremantle I can only picture maybe a handful of cafes and pubs along the coast, not sure about the 100's 😬

You don't need a 100. You just need one or two. I'm sure you could find one decent place to go to and make it your local? I just Googled and I see there are three pubs in Mandurah. Are they all bad? I am sure I would fit into one of them.

South Perth, around Mends St, just had the one pub - the Windsor, then there is another bar in Angelo Street opposite the private school - changed its name I believe since I was there. You have a choice of three?

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23 hours ago, newjez said:

Most of the places you describe you would probably call inner city. 

In the suburbs of Perth, you are in your house with the curtains closed because of the glare, or you get in your car in your garage and drive out after opening the electric door. You rarely go out on the street, and if you do, you never see anyone. Many people even have a man to mow their lawns. They just don't go outside.

It is different for men and working women. But if you are a stay at home mum, Perth can be a lonely place.

You could be describing the suburbs of any Australian city, yes it is hot in the summer and yes people stay inside with their air con turned up  but the streets are not empty and people come out in the mornings or evenings. My brother lives in such a suburb - Spring Farm near Camden 60 km from Sydney itself not that he goes there very much.

Most mums have their own cars and they usually get to know other mums on the school runs in the morning and arvo. If you have a dog, that is another way to connect to people. You always see groups of dog owners out in the parks in the late arvo/early evenings.

Yes, it is also horrible to be "trapped" in a suburban house, miles from the nearest shops and with poor public transport.  I don't know what the answer to that is. 

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5 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

You could be describing the suburbs of any Australian city, yes it is hot in the summer and yes people stay inside with their air con turned up  but the streets are not empty and people come out in the mornings or evenings. My brother lives in such a suburb - Spring Farm near Camden 60 km from Sydney itself not that he goes there very much.

Most mums have their own cars and they usually get to know other mums on the school runs in the morning and arvo. If you have a dog, that is another way to connect to people. You always see groups of dog owners out in the parks in the late arvo/early evenings.

Yes, it is also horrible to be "trapped" in a suburban house, miles from the nearest shops and with poor public transport.  I don't know what the answer to that is. 

This is something that a lot of British migrants aren't aware of.  Britain doesn't have faceless dormitory suburbs to the same extent.  Many suburbs in British towns are long-established and will at least have their own pub, if nothing else.   To arrive in Australia and find the only thing you can afford is a wood-framed box in a suburb that doesn't even have shops (apart from a convenience store and a Chinese takeaway) is a shock. As you say, if you don't have kids so you can meet other parents through the school, it can be very lonely. 

Most Australian cities have vibrant inner-ring suburbs with lots to offer.  Some have pockets in the outer burbs which have developed their own thriving centre.  And of course, if you arrived early enough (like Paul) to buy near the beach, you're laughing.  But those dormitory suburbs are the pits.

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Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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18 hours ago, bug family said:

Not being picky Paul, but between Mandurah (where I am ) and Fremantle I can only picture maybe a handful of cafes and pubs along the coast, not sure about the 100's 😬

You're the other side of Freo to me. I live 30km North near a gorgeous beach. I've been there this morning for a ski paddle, there is a dome, an italian, swell restaurant and a take away coffee and cake restaurant within 2 minutes walk of the beach. There is also a pub. 

Drive down West Coast Highway from there and you pass coffee outlets galore. That's without calling into Hillarys, City Beach, Scarborough, Trigg, Cottesloe that would add even more. Have a drive between Freo and Hillaries sometime, 100 would be on the low side. 

We have the West Coast Highway tourist drive which has great ocean views the whole way, somwthing you probably don't have from Mandurah to Freo? Don't get down there too much. Take visitors and I must say last time I went they had really improved the marina. Nice pub on there now.

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10 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

Maylands? I had to look it up on the map. Does every suburb in Perth have its own "crowd?" Of course, people love to stereotype different parts of a city - "Tony Abbott Land", "The Shire" "Yummy ethnic food", "Bogans".  But I never really thought of most suburbs having their own "crowd". Perhaps some people, jealous people, look down their noses at certain suburbs.

I've written about this before but it's relevant to this thread. We went to a friends 50th in the pub by the beach. There was a live band on, great atmosphere, which is typical of that pub, there's a bit of a dance floor, happy hour every night, which kicks things off.

Went to the toilet and a guy next to me says what a brilliant hight he's having, what a great pub and a great crowd of friendly people. He'd never been there before he said and told me he might move to the suburb. He was a Liverpudlian, no mistaking the accent so I thought he was a holiday maker and asked him how long he was on holiday for. Guy said he lived in Kingsley and he'd been there 20 years. Kingsley is a suburb about 15 minutes away from the beach. He said it was like a different world.

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15 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

You don't need a 100. You just need one or two. I'm sure you could find one decent place to go to and make it your local? I just Googled and I see there are three pubs in Mandurah. Are they all bad? I am sure I would fit into one of them. 

South Perth, around Mends St, just had the one pub - the Windsor, then there is another bar in Angelo Street opposite the private school - changed its name I believe since I was there. You have a choice of three? 

'

Maryrose02,...3 pubs 😂  in my home town in North Wales (Prestatyn) there are 12 pubs that is not including restaurants and cafes, Prestatyn town is a small town,  less than half the size of Mandurah...... I could walk to all of them pubs and have a few pints in whichever took my fancy, dinner and change from a 20 pound note, as opposed to here i would have to get a taxi to the pubs and back (i am not lazy but they are a few klms away), then chuck in that the price of a single pint is over 10$ and food even more and it becomes virtually unaffordable to go to them 3 pubs or at least something that can only be done on special occasions

Edited by bug family

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15 minutes ago, bug family said:

Maryrose02,...3 pubs 😂  in my home town in North Wales (Prestatyn) there are 12 pubs that is not including restaurants and cafes, Prestatyn town is a small town,  less than half the size of Mandurah...... I could walk to all of them pubs and have a few pints in whichever took my fancy, dinner and change from a 20 pound note, as opposed to here i would have to get a taxi to the pubs and back (i am not lazy but they are a few klms away), then chuck in that the price of a single pint is over 10$ and food even more and it becomes virtually unaffordable to go to them 3 pubs or at least something that can only be done on special occasions

Is it a long time since you've been back? I know we were surprised by how much it cost to go to the pub last time we were back in Stockport. Gone are the days when you could have a good night on 20 quid. That was pubs on the outskirts of Stockport too, so not supposed to be an expensive place.

 

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24 minutes ago, bug family said:

Maryrose02,...3 pubs 😂  in my home town in North Wales (Prestatyn) there are 12 pubs that is not including restaurants and cafes, Prestatyn town is a small town,  less than half the size of Mandurah...... I could walk to all of them pubs and have a few pints in whichever took my fancy, dinner and change from a 20 pound note, as opposed to here i would have to get a taxi to the pubs and back (i am not lazy but they are a few klms away), then chuck in that the price of a single pint is over 10$ and food even more and it becomes virtually unaffordable to go to them 3 pubs or at least something that can only be done on special occasions

So you live out in the 'burbs in Perth as opposed to inside a town in Wales. That is not unusual. It's the same for my brother in Sydney. I can't think how far it is to the closest pub, not that he is a pub goer. Definitely not walking distance, so, what are the options, IF he wanted to go to the pub? Public transport? Ubar or cab both ways. (Is it really that exorbitant in Manduarah? Here is is 5km to Southport and the cab cost me about $15. I know because I did it with my brother when had some eye operations. What about courtesy buses? Many pubs and clubs offer that service. My brother lived in Picnic Point a few years back, a good half an hour's walk away from Revesby and Revesby Workers' Club had a courtesy bus which would pick you up and take you home, very cheap.  I could get off the train at Revesby, walk over to the club and book a ride in the courtesy bus instead of waiting for a cab.

We all have to adapt to our surroundings.  You could always drive and not drink too.

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19 minutes ago, Paul1Perth said:

Is it a long time since you've been back? I know we were surprised by how much it cost to go to the pub last time we were back in Stockport. Gone are the days when you could have a good night on 20 quid. That was pubs on the outskirts of Stockport too, so not supposed to be an expensive place.

 

I seem to recall 2 to 3 quid a pint 12 years ago. Is that right? Just like Australia, far cheaper to pick up a case in the bottle shop - part of the supermarket in the UK but separate in OZ, at least in NSW.

Schooners of Heineken in the Surf Club $4.85 with 25 per cent members' discount - excellent value - probably double that in one of the other bars in Surfers.

Isn't the Dan Murphys in ? suburb on the Canning H/W - B something? the biggest in Australia?!

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1 hour ago, MARYROSE02 said:

I seem to recall 2 to 3 quid a pint 12 years ago. Is that right? Just like Australia, far cheaper to pick up a case in the bottle shop - part of the supermarket in the UK but separate in OZ, at least in NSW.

Schooners of Heineken in the Surf Club $4.85 with 25 per cent members' discount - excellent value - probably double that in one of the other bars in Surfers.

Isn't the Dan Murphys in ? suburb on the Canning H/W - B something? the biggest in Australia?!

£3.50 - £5 a pint now in the UK.

If you take it as a % of your wage then it all ends up similar.

Although I got a case of 24 kopperbergs for the wife the other night, and it cost $82 😱

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On 19/11/2020 at 06:59, bug family said:

Not being picky Paul, but between Mandurah (where I am ) and Fremantle I can only picture maybe a handful of cafes and pubs along the coast, not sure about the 100's 😬

I always thought they don't make enough of the coastline. I mean, it's the best thing about the place and they don't cash in on it. I don't drink coffee so I won't go to a Dome but in terms of somewhere to get a drink (NOR) there is a pub at Mullalloo, Hillarys (which I couldn't stand), Trigg has a beach cafe, Scarborough has a couple of decent places as do City Beach and North Beach. After that, you're in Cottesloe and Freo.

Cottesloe was the biggest let down for me, considering its reputation. The pub on the front is a bit dark, not really a coastal place. And the fancy area they did build is at the back, you may as well be anywhere.

Freo was our favourite place, could have a decent pub crawl there and there was a good vibe.

Edited by s713
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2 hours ago, s713 said:

Freo was our favourite place, could have a decent pub crawl there and there was a good vibe.

Yep i agree, fremantle has some nice pubs and is the closest thing that I have seen to a 'pub crawlable town' <---not sure that is a real word here in Australia

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2 hours ago, Lavers said:

£3.50 - £5 a pint now in the UK.

There you go, £20 would get me four pints (4x£3.50), a kebab (£5 ish )  and change back home ......................I am such a cheap night out 😂

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4 hours ago, Lavers said:

£3.50 - £5 a pint now in the UK.

If you take it as a % of your wage then it all ends up similar.

Although I got a case of 24 kopperbergs for the wife the other night, and it cost $82 😱

I know you cannot go strictly by the FX rate with other costs to take into account but tonight I was paying $4.85 and I think $5.85 respectively for schooners of Heineken and VB - schooner being 3/4 of a pint I believe. I was getting a members's discount of 25 per cent. (costs $10 for a year to become a member.)

Of course there are other non-financial aspects like being willing to pay extra to be in a place you like. My days of wanting to go on pub crawls are long gone. I want two or three pubs where  I am  a "local", not 30 bars withing walking distance of each other but I don't know anybody in them.

 

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1 hour ago, bug family said:

Yep i agree, fremantle has some nice pubs and is the closest thing that I have seen to a 'pub crawlable town' <---not sure that is a real word here in Australia

Do you NEED to go on a pub crawl? What are the attractions of a pub crawl? If you want a pub crawl in Australia - pick any city or large town. Let me think, Surfers Paradise: Avenue, Gillies, Joes, Waxys, Steam Punk, Kitty O'Sheas, Surfers Club, Diggers Club, Hotel Cavill, Clock Hotel, another Irish bar I can't think of the name, German beer cellar place, plus innumerable clubs I don't count because I am too old, and all the bars I mentioned are the ones within 500 metres of where I live. And I have left out restaurants.

Surry Hills where I usually live: No point in naming them. It's an inner city suburb same as Newtown, Darlinghurst, Glebe, Balmain, East Sydney, with bars every 100 metres or so.

Northbridge, in Perth where I stayed for a week in the street where the WA police HQ is? Two Irish pubs for a start and then numerous others.

But I go back to my original question; why do you want to be able to go on a pub crawl? OK for students and Club 18-30 on holiday in Lloret or Benidorm, but once past 30 you surely need a pub where, like Cheers, everybody knows your name?

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Perth is a lot more expensive for a beer than other places in Oz. I spent a lot of time travelling with work and Perth tops the lot. As said, you can get a schooner in QLD for $4 or $5. In Perth, it's pints and they're £10-$14, dependent on where you go. Well, unless you go to some ridiculous dive. The best con trick they pulled whilst we were there was introducing schooners to WA and charging the same prices as for pints. I remember when the Midland Hotel reopened and I paid $12 or $13 for a Squires and it came as a schooner, fuming. It was only when the West Australian ran a story on it they were shamed into admitting it.

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2 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

But I go back to my original question; why do you want to be able to go on a pub crawl? OK for students and Club 18-30 on holiday in Lloret or Benidorm, but once past 30 you surely need a pub where, like Cheers, everybody knows your name?

Exactly one of the reasons we got out. Once you're past 30, you're over the hill.

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8 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

Do you NEED to go on a pub crawl? What are the attractions of a pub crawl?

@MARYROSE02, if bug family likes a pub crawl, that's his business, surely.  What right have you to tell him he shouldn't?  We are all different and we all like different things.   

If you're trying to help bug family by suggesting things he could do to cheer him up, that's fine. However your posts are starting to come across as "How dare you not like Australia, you're just not trying".   That's not nice.

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Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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24 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

@MARYROSE02, if bug family likes a pub crawl, that's his business, surely.  What right have you to tell him he shouldn't?  We are all different and we all like different things.   

If you're trying to help bug family by suggesting things he could do to cheer him up, that's fine. However your posts are starting to come across as "How dare you not like Australia, you're just not trying".   That's not nice.

Too be honest makes a change from the ‘we hate Australia, especially Perth’ posts.

I think MR is mostly comparing his attitude to life, but we need to be very careful not to personalise posts.

Edited by ramot
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Maryrose the world you see through your lens is not the same world others see. I don't think you can't stand in the shoes of others and transpose how they should see the world according to you. Snoozy for instance has lived in Perth for longer than most people on these forums have been alive. If she has a particular view of the place who are we to question her perspective, especially if you are someone who has only ever passed through and spent a few days there 😉

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