How Long before you realised that Australia was or was not the place that you wanted to spend the rest of your days ?

[MARYROSE02]

58 minutes ago, Parley said:

A beautiful place to live.

Stop gilding the lily Parley. It's a dump and worse a dump without a decent beach?!

[Marisawright]

2 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

Are you trying to frighten me off from looking for a partner?! My homesickness is alleviated by the absolute NECESSITY to watch every game which Tottenham Hotspur...

Not at all.  You watching a TV program is a trivial thing and if a partner loved you, they'd accommodate that. I'm talking about people who are SO homesick it has resulted in clinical depression, for which the only cure is to move back home.  

[Marisawright]

3 hours ago, Parley said:

So if there are 4 other family members for example, should they all go back to England. Then you will have 1 happy person and 4 miserable people.

I agree, IF the other 4 family members are Australian, who would suffer the same homesickness in reverse if they went back to England.  But if they're Poms themselves, and simply like the life in Australia better, then there's no reason they should be miserable in England. 

If my partner had a rare disease and the only treatment available was in Peru, I'd move to Peru even though it wouldn't be my preference as a place to live.    There's no difference between that and someone suffering from clinical depression due to extreme homesickness.  Unless you're one of those people who thinks mental illness is all a sham and mentally ill people just need to pull themselves together and snap out of it. 

[MARYROSE02]

2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Not at all.  You watching a TV program is a trivial thing and if a partner loved you, they'd accommodate that. I'm talking about people who are SO homesick it has resulted in clinical depression, for which the only cure is to move back home.  

Is there a direct correlation between homesickness and clinical depression, for which the only "cure" is to go home? I thought clinical depression usually needed a diagnosis by a medical professional or clinical psychologist, followed by some form of treatment or combination of treatments. 

I may be clinically depressed myself. I definitely suffer from anxiety and I have been taking anti-depressants for years, sometimes in tandem with sessions with a clinical psychologist. I have a current mental health plan from my GP in Sydney.

Watching English football on TV may be a trivial thing compared to homesickness but it could also be that taking my medication renders it as trivial.

[Marisawright]

2 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

Is there a direct correlation between homesickness and clinical depression...

Not ordinary homesickness, no.  We are only talking about the very deep attachment to country felt by some members here. Based on what I've read by those people over the years, yes, I believe there is a direct correlation.   People do recover from clinical depression without medication--every case is different. Obviously one can't be sure it's depression without a professional diagnosis.   

I'm sure that in your case, it's not connected.  If you had that deep attachment, you'd know it.  It's not something you'd have any doubts about.  

[Quoll]

9 hours ago, Parley said:

So if there are 4 other family members for example, should they all go back to England. Then you will have 1 happy person and 4 miserable people.

After 32 years in Australia it is just an idea that someone misses. The reality of England is nothing like the ideal in someone's mind. And it is nothing like it was 32 years ago.

Not necessarily. As part of our discussion before we actually didn't return from our holiday my DH did say to me "but if I had to live in England then I would be depressed". I taxed him about that afterwards when we'd  been there very happily for a year or more. He apologised profusely because he was actually very happy. There is no reason why someone  relocating to UK is going to be depressed, they may be, they may not.  

We had been in Aus for 32 years, 8 months and 3 days when we accidentally stayed there and I can assure you for 8.5 years there it was a whole lot better than I had built up in my mind!!! If the finances had stacked up better we might have considered staying but we were just too old. 

[bug family]

13 hours ago, Parley said:

After 32 years in Australia it is just an idea that someone misses. The reality of England is nothing like the ideal in someone's mind. And it is nothing like it was 32 years ago.

But it is the same though, even after 32 years....I have this argument time and time again, people say that the place will have changed after a long period of time, therefore it is some fantasy land that you must be living in and yes time and progress will change an area to a certain degree, the building of new areas and more infrastructure etc, but the overall place has not changed, the mountains I looked at in wales are still there, the rivers are still running, the beach is still the same, the hedgerows, fields and old church yards are still there they have not changed

[tea4too]

I think it is more than an appreciation of tangible things. You can find a nice area to live, have a decent standard of living and enjoy what the local community has to offer in most first world countries. An extra dimension such as the weather will seal the deal for many and they never look back.

For others an intangible element that feels like a piece of the jigsaw is missing, never goes away. The feeling may ebb and flow but is ever present, and over time can become a weight that throws a shadow over everything in life, even the good and positive aspects. It's not a choice thing. I started another thread recently about genetic memory and I do think there is a degree of merit in the theory that some people inherit a sense of belonging through their DNA. And if that's true no matter how hard an individual tries to settle, how many friends they make, how the rest of the family feels... they themselves will always be drawn and attached to somewhere else by invisible threads. T x

 

[MARYROSE02]

8 hours ago, tea4too said:

I think it is more than an appreciation of tangible things. You can find a nice area to live, have a decent standard of living and enjoy what the local community has to offer in most first world countries. An extra dimension such as the weather will seal the deal for many and they never look back.

For others an intangible element that feels like a piece of the jigsaw is missing, never goes away. The feeling may ebb and flow but is ever present, and over time can become a weight that throws a shadow over everything in life, even the good and positive aspects. It's not a choice thing. I started another thread recently about genetic memory and I do think there is a degree of merit in the theory that some people inherit a sense of belonging through their DNA. And if that's true no matter how hard an individual tries to settle, how many friends they make, how the rest of the family feels... they themselves will always be drawn and attached to somewhere else by invisible threads. T x

 

I do have an "invisible thread" (more like a rope) connecting me to the New Forest but as I was conceived in Germany (Made in Germany as I like to tell Germans) and born in South Shields, perhaps there are threads pulling me to those places.

My own theory would be that it is family ties not the actual place that pulls you back. When my parents were alive I went back and forth, and eventually I went back for twelve years but once they passed away, the family ties pulled me back to Australia and my brothers.

 

[MARYROSE02]

15 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Not ordinary homesickness, no.  We are only talking about the very deep attachment to country felt by some members here. Based on what I've read by those people over the years, yes, I believe there is a direct correlation.   People do recover from clinical depression without medication--every case is different. Obviously one can't be sure it's depression without a professional diagnosis.   

I'm sure that in your case, it's not connected.  If you had that deep attachment, you'd know it.  It's not something you'd have any doubts about.  

I'm in Facebook groups dedicated to where I grew up and when members post photos I feel sentimental and nostalgic. Some of these places are akin to religious shrines and every time I went back I go on pilgrimages to them. I can tell from the comments from other members, that it does ot matter whether they have lived in the village all their lives or moved to "the ends of the Earth" like me, they all feel the same way.

After my parents died, life went on as it does, and I lived happily on my own but eventually I thought, "Why live here on my own when my brothers are in Australia?" Had my brothers followed me back to England, (as they followed me to OZ), I would probably still be in England.

So, for me, "family is more important than place" but that is subjective, of course, and for others perhaps "place is more important than family?"

[MARYROSE02]

10 hours ago, bug family said:

But it is the same though, even after 32 years....I have this argument time and time again, people say that the place will have changed after a long period of time, therefore it is some fantasy land that you must be living in and yes time and progress will change an area to a certain degree, the building of new areas and more infrastructure etc, but the overall place has not changed, the mountains I looked at in wales are still there, the rivers are still running, the beach is still the same, the hedgerows, fields and old church yards are still there they have not changed

"it is the same though" is true for some but not for others. When my brother came back after eighteen years he was angry because, for whatever reason, he had lost his connection to the places where he grew up. I was just talking to Marisa  about places from my childhood which are like religious shrines because of the connection I have with them and I make pilgrimages to them when I'm back.

But for my brother, he made the same pilgrimages but he felt nothing. His memory banks had been wiped. I don't know how to explain it. I look in my diary at things I know I muat have done because I wrote them down, but i can't remember doing them now.

My brother made one more trip to see our Dad just before he died and that was that. It is different for me because I went back regularly and I eventually stayed for twelve years, albeit living in a different village to the one where I was brought up. Seven miles between the two villages and I worked in the "new" one for four years before I came to OZ but living there was like emigrating all over again. It could have been seven thousand miles not seven. I did not know anyone except my parents and it was just like when I went to Australia, and when I came back to OZ for as second time to live, that was a third emigration.

So, for some people, when they go back, they "kiss the ground'" when they disembark from the plane and have this glorious feeling of "I'm HOME!" But for people like my brother, when they kiss the ground, it does not taste the same as they remembered and sometimes the taste is unpleasant.

[Marisawright]

3 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

My own theory would be that it is family ties not the actual place that pulls you back.

Well, you should know by now, that theory is wrong.  It may be true for you, but you have the solid evidence of real people on these forums who experience that "pull" when they don't have any family there any more. Unless you're going to call them liars, you have to accept that for some people, it has nothing to do with family.  

As you said, "for some people, when they go back, they "kiss the ground'" when they disembark from the plane and have this glorious feeling of "I'm HOME!"

Edited December 27, 2020 by Marisawright

[MARYROSE02]

2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Well, you should know by now, that theory is wrong.  It may be true for you, but you have the solid evidence of real people on these forums who experience that "pull" when they don't have any family there any more. Unless you're going to call them liars, you have to accept that for some people, it has nothing to do with family.  

As you said, "for some people, when they go back, they "kiss the ground'" when they disembark from the plane and have this glorious feeling of "I'm HOME!"

Not liars, although I would dispute the idea that homesickness is a direct cause of clinical depression and you can cure that clinical depression by going home. 

And of course, Quoll apart, have any of them actually moved back to the UK to live, as opposed to going on holiday?

I remember you saying that some of their family members may be unsympathetic to their depression? In that  case, if it was clinical depression, then I would actually be rather angry because depression is a "proper" illness and it needs to be treated, just like other mental disorders like anxiety.

 

Edited December 27, 2020 by MARYROSE02

[Marisawright]

23 minutes ago, MARYROSE02 said:

And of course, Quoll apart, have any of them actually moved back to the UK to live, as opposed to going on holiday?

I remember you saying that some of their family members may be unsympathetic to their depression? In that  case, if it was clinical depression, then I would actually be rather angry ....

 

Yes, some of them have.  There used to be a private section of the forums called MBTTUK ("Moving Back to the UK").    There were several people on that forum like Quoll, who moved back and were very glad to be home.  Some of them even left their partner and family in Australia.   And you are right, they were saddened or angered by their partner's attitude and that's basically what destroyed the relationship. 

Edited December 27, 2020 by Marisawright

[Chortlepuss]

On 18/11/2020 at 00:54, Snoozy said:

You have no idea about my life and how hard I've tried to fit in. I am a friendly woman, and have helped many people here. I can't be bothered with this convesation. I knew if I opened up on here I would cop it. I will never talk on this forum again. 

Ah Snoozy I totally empathise! The honestly on this forum has helped me tremendously and you are very brave. I have been here 13 years and like you I have tried to fit in. I am so tired of trying now and have largely given up. Too many years of small talk. Some can do it better than others and the Aussies I meet are masters of the game. They’re not horrible, just have no need for closer relationships or meaningful conversation (with me at least). If it wasn’t for frequent trips back to the UK and the support and love of friends and family there I think I would have written myself of as just a hopeless person and incapable of making friends. Too many of us have this experience for it to be explained away in victim blaming! My heart breaks for you and anyone else not being able to get home. I feel like I’m on an extended strange holiday in a beautiful location - it’s not unpleasant, I’ve just outstayed my welcome and my purpose for being here. I too was part of a supportive community in the UK - harder I suppose for those that have left this.

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Chortlepuss said:

 If it wasn’t for frequent trips back to the UK and the support and love of friends and family there I think I would have written myself of as just a hopeless person and incapable of making friends. Too many of us have this experience for it to be explained away in victim blaming! 

I went through this in the opposite direction, when we tried to settle back in the UK.   During my year in Southampton, I made a real effort to get out and make friends - writers' groups, the gym, ballroom dance classes and socials, etc - and though people were polite and friendly, I never made a single friendship.  In all that time, I met only one woman that I clicked with - turned out she'd spent most of her life travelling the world with her husband's work and they were off to retire in Cyprus. 

I returned to Australia full of trepidation, convinced the problem was me:  I'd got too old to make new friends ever again. How wrong I was.  I'm living in a brand new city where I knew no one, but I have more friends now than I've ever had in my life.   

It's hard to know what causes it, exactly.   I know one shouldn't make generalisations but I think it's something about the style of communication.   I have no trouble having meaningful conversations with Aussies whereas I never felt I had one with anyone in the UK.  I felt as though I was permanently tuned to a different wavelength.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Marisawright

[proud preston]

@bug family - Many of your posts really resonate with me. For me, it was the discussion before we even started the whole PR process when back in the UK, then it was the trip out here to stamp the visas, then it was the second day after we landed -14 years ago. I’ve longed to return to the UK throughout the time we’ve been here but not that easy. With family who see here as home - it’s just me that’s the misery!!  

I always remember my year as a back packer here in the early 90’s, meeting people who were desperate to stay here and I inwardly recoiled at the thought of living here for good! Should have listened to my gut feeling back then. 

I do think Aus is a great place, yet if your heart is yearning for the old familiar then it’s never going to be home. I will always miss family (why move to the other side of the earth and leave a loving family?) the landscape, light, weather, buildings and just being in the Northern Hemisphere! 

 

 

[bug family]

8 hours ago, proud preston said:

I will always miss family (why move to the other side of the earth and leave a loving family?) the landscape, light, weather, buildings and just being in the Northern Hemisphere! 

Thanks  proud Preston....I sometimes wish that I had never taken this journey, (do you?) but then I would have been left always wondering and what ifs? can be toxic.....I mentioned to my wife-ish (we are good friends but without benefits), the other day that my dream would be to move back to the UK she get a job as a nurse (which i am sure she would have no problem doing) and I get a job as a paramedic (which i am sure I would have no problem doing), the kids go to a proper school, one with a football pitch and that is not built out of porta cabins, we get a mortgage on a house in the country or near the seaside and we all live happily ever after ....however i realised along time ago that despite what the media tell you about dreams coming true...they don't,  lol , so move on...i would say that i am happy that my wife has found her happy place, but also i am not going to apologise for me not finding mine, it is good to hear from those such as yourself it makes you realise that you are not so isolated in your own point of view 

[proud preston]

1 hour ago, bug family said:

Thanks  proud Preston....I sometimes wish that I had never taken this journey, (do you?) but then I would have been left always wondering and what ifs? 

Yes!! I wish I’d stayed put and had the conviction to do this. I’m envious of my siblings who are scattered around the UK but have been in their respective areas for years - feeling content and a deep connection to the counties they settled in. My boys are Brisbanites now so it’s a case of me needing to change my mindset. 

Surely in the health service you’d both find employment but I’m sure it would be a bloody tough gig over there at present. Can you ever see you and the family moving back? Maybe a lot of us never will but you can’t extinguish that hope and yearning- although the constant yearning is not good for emotional health and relationships with the family. 

Yes - my dream is a rural area in the north of the UK but it’s not a reality and never will be ( unless I have a huge windfall of cash!) I watch Corrie nightly and it occurred to me the other day that I’d love the Rovers to be my local! Sad! 

I am conscious that this sort of talk can all seem self indulgent crap as people in the UK are going through a bloody tough time now and I realise we are very privileged to be here but.......... it is good to read and chat with others who feel this perpetual homesickness ( I think, as well, I grieve for the life we may have had - but maybe that’s too whimsical as we can’t think necessarily that it would have all been roses) 

Cheers for the reply ! 

[bug family]

On 05/01/2021 at 18:34, proud preston said:

Yes!! I wish I’d stayed put and had the conviction to do this. I’m envious of my siblings who are scattered around the UK but have been in their respective areas for years - feeling content and a deep connection to the counties they settled in. My boys are Brisbanites now so it’s a case of me needing to change my mindset. 

Surely in the health service you’d both find employment but I’m sure it would be a bloody tough gig over there at present. Can you ever see you and the family moving back? Maybe a lot of us never will but you can’t extinguish that hope and yearning- although the constant yearning is not good for emotional health and relationships with the family. 

Yes - my dream is a rural area in the north of the UK but it’s not a reality and never will be ( unless I have a huge windfall of cash!) I watch Corrie nightly and it occurred to me the other day that I’d love the Rovers to be my local! Sad! 

I am conscious that this sort of talk can all seem self indulgent crap as people in the UK are going through a bloody tough time now and I realise we are very privileged to be here but.......... it is good to read and chat with others who feel this perpetual homesickness ( I think, as well, I grieve for the life we may have had - but maybe that’s too whimsical as we can’t think necessarily that it would have all been roses) 

Cheers for the reply ! 

Hahaha the rovers would be great except for the fact that only you and two of your mates and maybe a cat could actually fit in the pub it's that small, but I know exactly what you mean, I was lucky enough to take a trip back home (2019) at Christmas time with my son (I am surprised you did not hear about it i told everyone lol) and during that trip we visited a pub in barmouth called 'The last Inn', it was the absolute essence of what a pub should be (in my opinion) low ceilings, beams , little nooks and alcoves, log fires, photographs and pictures of the town, brass ornaments, you get the idea, I also dream about that place.........you are right we are lucky to have escaped the worse of the Covid pandemic and will hopefully continue to do so, as for can I see my family moving back, yes and no, I have always maintained that i will move back one day (my 12 year old son Daniel is keen), but my wife and 8 year old daughter (emily ) are not and therein lies the sticking point 

[FatCat]

On 24/10/2020 at 22:16, bug family said:

 

For me before I had even set foot in Australia I knew

Goodness. Never heard anyone say that before....

[MARYROSE02]

4 hours ago, FatCat said:

Goodness. Never heard anyone say that before....

Yes, that is unusual. Hating a place from the moment you set foot is one thing. I've checked straight out of hotels because I had a "sixth" sense I did not like it, but knowing you will hate a place BEFORE you get there, that is odd.  I've looked at reviews of places, ships, cruises, hotels, suburbs, whatever and wondered if it is as bad as some say. My own suburb in Sydney, Surry Hills has had some horrid reviews! Made me want to move.

All three ships I went on cruises had some bad reviews - peeling paint on the walls, dirty carpets, rude staff - then I get on the ship and conclude that they are just "professional" whingers. I was scared of coming to OZ too, put off by horror stories of Pommie hating Aussies.

Probably the only place which has come close to "living the dream" is Surfers Paradise, and I bet that is a nightmare to some?!

Edited January 9, 2021 by MARYROSE02

[bug family]

On 09/01/2021 at 08:24, FatCat said:

Goodness. Never heard anyone say that before....

well there you go, there is a first time for everything,  Lets look at the question again.....................The question asked was 'How Long before you realised that Australia was or was not the place that you wanted to spend the rest of your days ?

I knew (and voiced) before i left the UK that I would return home one day....not sure what you find so shocking about that view point.....some come forever, some do not

[bug family]

On 09/01/2021 at 12:54, MARYROSE02 said:

Yes, that is unusual. Hating a place from the moment you set foot is one thing. I've checked straight out of hotels because I had a "sixth" sense I did not like it, but knowing you will hate a place BEFORE you get there, that is odd.

Maryrose02, I am confused,  forgive me but where am I saying that I hated Australia before I stepped foot in the country?.......I asked the question ' How Long before you realised that Australia was or was not the place that you wanted to spend the rest of your days ?'  And I shared my thoughts that I knew and voiced that I would be returning home one day, as I knew that it was not a forever move for me, just like thousands before me have voiced, I have never said that I hated the place but simply have been honest in my feelings to my wife and family so that they where under no illusion that this would not be a forever move for me from the beginning........I do not consider being honest with someone as being 'odd'...call me old fashioned and all that

Edited January 10, 2021 by bug family

[MARYROSE02]

19 hours ago, bug family said:

Maryrose02, I am confused,  forgive me but where am I saying that I hated Australia before I stepped foot in the country?.......I asked the question ' How Long before you realised that Australia was or was not the place that you wanted to spend the rest of your days ?'  And I shared my thoughts that I knew and voiced that I would be returning home one day, as I knew that it was not a forever move for me, just like thousands before me have voiced, I have never said that I hated the place but simply have been honest in my feelings to my wife and family so that they where under no illusion that this would not be a forever move for me from the beginning........I do not consider being honest with someone as being 'odd'...call me old fashioned and all that

Perhaps that line that someone else quoted was taken out of context? "......for me, before I even set foot in Australia, I knew......" sounds like someone who has made their mind up they will dislike something before they have tried it. Sorry, if it was taken out of context.

This is probably a single person's question but why did you agree to do something which you so patently disliked doing right from the start?