How Long before you realised that Australia was or was not the place that you wanted to spend the rest of your days ?

[MARYROSE02]

6 hours ago, ramot said:

I defy anyone who has watched Heather Ewarts program the Back Roads, to tell me there is no community spirit in Australia

It’s probably interesting our personal definition of community, is it only a community if you have lived there all your life, went to school with everyone, or can it be where you have settled, made friends even if it’s only for the here and now?  Do you even need to be part of a community to be happy?

In The last village that I lived in In UK in Nottinghamshire, we lived on the main road and In all the 11 years I hardly knew a neighbour, but the community I was in, was through the children’s primary school and their activities. There were probably plenty of individual communities within the village, drawn together by common interests, but apart from the annual village show, there was little common ground.

I have never lived in a row of terraced houses, with little or no front garden, but have moved 17 times since I was married  and guilty of driving into the garage and spending time indoors or in the garden,  always friendly to neighbours,  but not friends. 

Living in RAF quarters was again different, we never had family near, so we supported each other in a friendly way but it was a very transient life, certainly a community but out of necessity rather than long term friendships of living in one place most of your life. I genuinely don’t know what living in one place most of your life feels like, and I have never had an extended family at all let alone living close, but I do know I couldn’t stand neighbours popping in and out, 

The day we moved into our house on the Sunshine Coast, our neighbours invited us in for coffee. Almost  18 years later we and our other neighbours, don’t go out of our way to live in each other’s pockets, we celebrate Christmas and Christmas in July together with a great street party, and celebrate the occasional milestone together. We would do anything for each other, when our neighbours husband started sadly to have Falls, she knew she could phone day or night for help, and we did on many occasions. We aren’t the only neighbour who checks on her after a bad storm.

I also think life is very different now. When I was married in 1970, not many wives worked, so were around more in the daytime, and we helped to look after each other’s children, took our children to toddler groups and playgroups. Nowadays I think the majority of women work, and children are in daycare, sometimes from a very young age and for long hours. No time for socialising or chatting at the end of a long day. 

I imagine some of the people who are decrying the lack of a community spirit in Australia are suffering from homesickness, loneliness, perhaps something worse, like depression, and looking back through rose-coloured spectacles to a possibly imaginary Utopia. I am sure there are Aussies living in England who are experiencing the same emotions about Australia.

I grew in up in a close with 39 semidetached homes (actually three were detached) built around a green where the kids all played. Almost all the dads worked in the Esso Refinery, the mums bonded over their kids. I moved from there in 1970 and I just did a rough count and I can still recall about 30 families and the number of their house. There was nothing uniquely British about that experience. My mum and dad bought a bigger home in the village and my only regret is that they did not keep both homes instead of selling one.

I don't even know if it is possible to go back and re-imbed yourself into a community? Perhaps. Perhaps not. You have taken a chunk out of your life by emigrating. You have had experiences that are alien to most of the people that stayed where they were.  I sometimes envy my childhood friends for not moving away (They may envy me for having made the break of course!?) I did go back to England of course but to a village about 7 miles away from the one where I grew up. Now, I regard both villages as being my "home."

The Sunday Telegraph (Sydney) has a page of wedding pictures going back 50, 55, 60 years, including a lot from 1970. I always look forward to looking at them. Even though it is now 50 years it does not seem "old" the way WW2 seems "old".
 

[MARYROSE02]

On 20/11/2020 at 12:03, Paul1Perth said:

You're the other side of Freo to me. I live 30km North near a gorgeous beach. I've been there this morning for a ski paddle, there is a dome, an italian, swell restaurant and a take away coffee and cake restaurant within 2 minutes walk of the beach. There is also a pub. 

Drive down West Coast Highway from there and you pass coffee outlets galore. That's without calling into Hillarys, City Beach, Scarborough, Trigg, Cottesloe that would add even more. Have a drive between Freo and Hillaries sometime, 100 would be on the low side. 

We have the West Coast Highway tourist drive which has great ocean views the whole way, somwthing you probably don't have from Mandurah to Freo? Don't get down there too much. Take visitors and I must say last time I went they had really improved the marina. Nice pub on there now.

I am familiar with some of those places that you mention. Scarborough was where I had my first Aussie swim in November, 1978. I used to get a bus from somewhere near the hostel in Newcastle Street. It is still November so I am "still" in Perth 42 years ago. !st week in December is Adelaide, and then from 7/8 December, Sydney, where I never intended to live.

"Dome?" That is a chain of coffee shops I think. There was one in Northbridge I went to, another in Victoria Park, another in Margaret River. There is another chain, not so extensive, there was one in Mends St and another in Ardross(?) where you turn left from Canning Highway if you are going to Garden City.. There is or was one in Sydney. I just cannot think of the name.

I had a few drives in the arvo/early evening on the West Coast Highway. It's never been important to me to have places to go to in every suburb and beach. I always looked forward to putting my car back into the park then heading out to my "local" without worrying about RBT and DUI.

l

[Marisawright]

6 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

I imagine some of the people who are decrying the lack of a community spirit in Australia are suffering from homesickness, loneliness, perhaps something worse, like depression, and looking back through rose-coloured spectacles to a possibly imaginary Utopia.

But on the other hand, they may be looking back through clear spectacles at a country where they feel more at home.   

There's a myth in the UK (and among British migrants here) that Australia is automatically better than the UK for everyone.  It isn't - some people are happier here, some are happier in the UK.  Those of us who prefer Australia need to respect those who prefer the UK - not tell them to get over it.

Sometimes I think, when you spruik the benefits of living in Australia, that you're trying to convince yourself too, and there's a part of you which would rather be back home in England.

Edited November 22, 2020 by Marisawright

[MARYROSE02]

On 21/11/2020 at 02:09, s713 said:

Exactly one of the reasons we got out. Once you're past 30, you're over the hill.

Yes, some of the schoolies have been regarding me rather sadly (at best) in the lifts, though one did ask me if I did cones. I fancy Club 18-30 loses its lustre once you get past 22.

 

[MARYROSE02]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

But on the other hand, they may be looking back through clear spectacles at a country where they feel more at home.   

There's a myth in the UK (and among British migrants here) that Australia is automatically better than the UK for everyone.  It isn't - some people are happier here, some are happier in the UK.  Those of us who prefer Australia need to respect those who prefer the UK - not tell them to get over it.

Sometimes I think, when you spruik the benefits of living in Australia, that you're trying to convince yourself too, and there's a part of you which would rather be back home in England.

True, and I've worn both pairs of spectacles myself - going back for a holiday in summer and thinking how absolutely glorious it is, and then going back to "live" and realizing that "living" is like emigrating all over again. (which I did of course for 12 years).

I wore both pairs of those spectacles when I went over to Perth  for my two trips. On the first, I had the rose-tinted ones on when I thought Perth was absolutely glorious, so much so that I went back again 3 months later.  It was still good but I realized that if I moved there I would be "living" there, not on permanent holiday and with no family there and no friends. It would have been "doable" of course.

Of course, to a certain extent, it was the same this year when I came to Surfers Paradise, a place I'd only ever been on holiday, and now I am "living" here, although I do have family too, living with my brother.

I don't know if I'd like to move back to England now. It's 12 years since I left and I've not been back, unlike during my first stint when I went back constantly to see my parents. I could imagine going back to my childhood village for a few months in the summer, but not now at the start of winter although my 12 years back started in October but my parents were there. Moving into a home, on my own with no family around, like moving to Perth in fact!?

[AliQ]

2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Sometimes I think, when you spruik the benefits of living in Australia, that you're trying to convince yourself too,

So very true Marisawright, totally agree.

We love living over here, in fact we have just bought a new property, but I would not say that our life is better, it's different, that's all.

We've always enjoyed and appreciated the environment and experience of living here, but it's not always better than the UK, it's just different !

[Paul1Perth]

On 20/11/2020 at 19:44, bug family said:

There you go, £20 would get me four pints (4x£3.50), a kebab (£5 ish )  and change back home ......................I am such a cheap night out

Nice to know kebabs are cheaper in Perth.

[Paul1Perth]

On 21/11/2020 at 07:53, MARYROSE02 said:

Sounds like Edensor Park in the mid 1980s to a "T" - my brother bought his first house as a married couple (is that grammatical?) there, and I house sat for a weekend with my Mum, but not no car, and described it as being like living "in a open prison." (because there was nothing within walking distance).

But then again, "no car" and most people who live in the "outer burbs" have a car for every adult member of the family, and if you want a brand new home with three or more bedrooms, maybe pool, home cinema plus bbq of course and you do your entertaining at home.

I have to say too that many people who are brought up in those far burbs have no desire to move to those "vibrant inner-ring suburbs", including my brother and his wife, who now live at what he calls "North Goulburn" (near Camden). Tell a lie, he tell me that he was "bored" there. I must investigate and report back because he has lived in those kind of suburbs since he got married in 1986.

To be honest, I only moved to Surry Hills because I could cope with commuting from Narrabeen 26 km to the City, Garden Island, to be precise, and i wanted to be able to walk to work. Had I got my job at Penrith in 1982 instead of 2012 I probably would have moved there.

 

2

 

"
 

Was it ADI you worked for on Garden Island? If so we worked for the same mob. I used to love going to Garden Island in Sydney. Used to stay at the Holiday Inn Potts Point (really right in the middle of Kings Cross, across from the Coca Cola sign, but Potts Point sounds better).

Walk to work at the Island, they used to let us cut through HMAS Kuttubul, the land based training centre, and walk down the gardens to the main base. Almost like an English tiered Garden with little gazebos and fantastic views of the harbour. Pity the general public don't get to see any of that, priveleged that we worked there.

I spent lots of weeks there on one project, didn't come back to Perth for weekends as it was better financially for work to keep me in the hotel on expenses. Made the most of it, walked everywhere and knew Sydney better than I knew Perth.

Tried out some brilliant restaurants, pubs in the rocks, everything paid for by work. One of the best steaks I've ever had was the meat and wine restaurant in Darling Harbour, next to imax. The blue cheese on vodka sauce was amazing. Used to start off with a dozen oysters kilpatrick, then steak and a desert.

Another great place in darling harbour did a full rack of ribs which were excellent. If I wasn't on expenses I wouldn't have been going to them, I reckon people on work trips keep those places going.

Used to finish work, change into running gear, run through the botanic gardens to the opera house and back, to work up a thirst and an appetite. Loved it round Kings Cross, Darlinghurst and Woolloomooloo. ADI had a great deal for a while at the blue on the wharf, I still preffered staying at the holiday Inn though. TheBlue was really upmarket but the bar and restaurant were like sitting in a wind tunnel.

Loved my visits to Sydney.

[bug family]

30 minutes ago, Paul1Perth said:

Nice to know kebabs are cheaper in Perth.

yes....but they just don't taste the same

[Paul1Perth]

12 minutes ago, bug family said:

yes....but they just don't taste the same

Not noticed any difference. Usually I have a kebab after being in the pub and for some reason always hungry. They've been just fine when I've had them in Perth.

[bug family]

4 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Sometimes I think, when you spruik the benefits of living in Australia, that you're trying to convince yourself too, and there's a part of you which would rather be back home in England.

Yes I totally agree Marisawright, for example I like to watch programs about home (uk) as I have mentioned before, and sometimes Vanessa (my wife-ish) will sit down and watch a program with me, every now and then I will catch her off guard as she admits to loving a particular place that is on whatever TV program we are watching, she almost has a look of feeling guilty for doing so and I have on a number of occasions reminded her that she is British and should feel love for her home country and that there is no shame in saying so.......I also find that when people are extolling the benefits of living in Australia to me, they tend to all be the same reasons given, weather, beach etc and it throws them when I say that actually I prefer it back home and find living here, for me at least, a bit boring, it is almost like they are scared to admit that actually Britain also has some nice places to live, saying so does not take away from their life in Australia at all or put them at risk of being deported

[bug family]

20 hours ago, Pendragon said:

But one can't live their life for others or least I can't.

so very true Pendragon

[bug family]

4 minutes ago, Paul1Perth said:

Not noticed any difference. Usually I have a kebab after being in the pub and for some reason always hungry. They've been just fine when I've had them in Perth.

tongue in cheek Paul ...the Kebabs here taste fine (not had that many)............ I am hinting at the fact that I prefer my Kebabs Back home

[Paul1Perth]

Just now, bug family said:

tongue in cheek Paul ...the Kebabs here taste fine (not had that many)............ I am hinting at the fact that I prefer my Kebabs Back home

Fair enough.

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, bug family said:

Yes I totally agree Marisawright, for example I like to watch programs about home (uk) as I have mentioned before, and sometimes Vanessa (my wife-ish) will sit down and watch a program with me, every now and then I will catch her off guard as she admits to loving a particular place that is on whatever TV program we are watching, she almost has a look of feeling guilty for doing so and I have on a number of occasions reminded her that she is British and should feel love for her home country and that there is no shame in saying so.......I also find that when people are extolling the benefits of living in Australia to me, they tend to all be the same reasons given, weather, beach etc and it throws them when I say that actually I prefer it back home and find living here, for me at least, a bit boring, it is almost like they are scared to admit that actually Britain also has some nice places to live, saying so does not take away from their life in Australia at all or put them at risk of being deported

You've probably heard the Shakespeare (mis)quote, "methinks he doth protest too much".  It means that whem people have got themselves into a situation, they're too proud to admit it was a mistake. Or maybe they feel it's too hard or too expensive to change that situation, so they'd rather not admit there's a problem.  Either way, their coping mechanism is to go overboard telling everyone how happy they are with said situation.  

It's part of human nature and you see it all the time.I suspect I've seen it often on these forums, and I suspect you're seeing it with some of those people you mentioned.  

However, I have to take issue with you saying your wife "should feel love for her home country".  Maybe she does, maybe she doesn't, but there's no "should" about it.  People like yourself, who feel a deep attachment to your home country, can't conceive that some people don't.  But there ARE people who don't, and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm one of them.  We're the ones who make good migrants, because we can fall in love with a new country without a pang of regret. The trouble starts when one of us lot marries one of you lot...

Edited November 23, 2020 by Marisawright

[newjez]

1 hour ago, Paul1Perth said:

Not noticed any difference. Usually I have a kebab after being in the pub and for some reason always hungry. They've been just fine when I've had them in Perth.

I used to get a doner kebab in Perth, although technically I think it was a souvlaki. They were to die for 

The thing I bought in England called a kabab was so disgusting I've never ordered one ever again.

[Tulip1]

6 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

Not noticed any difference. Usually I have a kebab after being in the pub and for some reason always hungry. They've been just fine when I've had them in Perth.

That’s one thing two of my sons have mentioned several times over the years. Both have lived in Perth, NOR. Ones still there and has been for over ten years, the other moved away but was there for a few years. They both say the kebabs are no way near as nice as the ones in the U.K.  They say they’re ok but not a patch on the ones here.  Just an observation from them, not a moan. 

[Lavers]

1 hour ago, Tulip1 said:

That’s one thing two of my sons have mentioned several times over the years. Both have lived in Perth, NOR. Ones still there and has been for over ten years, the other moved away but was there for a few years. They both say the kebabs are no way near as nice as the ones in the U.K.  They say they’re ok but not a patch on the ones here.  Just an observation from them, not a moan. 

I've gotta say we have only had a few takeaways since being here and I must admit that I prefer the UK takeaways.

Although its probably only because it's what I'm used to.

[calNgary]

12 hours ago, Marisawright said:

 

Sometimes I think, when you spruik the benefits of living in Australia, that you're trying to convince yourself too, and there's a part of you which would rather be back home in England.

What? so if you talk about the positives or try and correct a totally outrageous statement ,its really because your not happy here and trying to reassure yourself?  If thats what you mean, then i totally disagree with you on this one.

I will quite often talk about the positives of my life here but not for one minute is it because i'm unhappy or want to return to the UK. Sorry  if i have got my wires crossed and misunderstood you.

Cal x

[calNgary]

41 minutes ago, Lavers said:

I've gotta say we have only had a few takeaways since being here and I must admit that I prefer the UK takeaways.

Although its probably only because it's what I'm used to.

I totally agree with this.

Kebabs are put in a sandwich toaster and go hard, Indians are rubbish (although after quite a few years i have found a half decent local one but it costs a fortune), 99% of chippys use frozen, dry tasting chips and the pie shops dont sell Cheese and Onion pies,lol... At least i can get my PG Tips, Bisto and Batchellors mushy peas from Wooly's now a days, lol.

 Cal x

[bug family]

3 minutes ago, calNgary said:

Cheese and Onion pies

oooo.....greggs cheese and onion pastie with a dollop of tomato sauce

[calNgary]

2 minutes ago, bug family said:

oooo.....greggs cheese and onion pastie with a dollop of tomato sauce

Stop it.. i will start dribbling,lol. The nearest thing i've found is a beef,cheese and onion pie and its just not the same.

Cal x

[MARYROSE02]

10 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

Not noticed any difference. Usually I have a kebab after being in the pub and for some reason always hungry. They've been just fine when I've had them in Perth.

Imagine going to a Turkish restaurant in Australia and ordering a kebab, (athough in my case it would be a pide), and then telling the Turkish owners that "it was good but not as good as the kebab (pide) that you used to eat in the UK" even as the majority of the patrons, all Turkish migrants, were telling their Turkish friends that the food in the Aussie Turkish restaurant was even better than they could get at home! 

[MARYROSE02]

4 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

That’s one thing two of my sons have mentioned several times over the years. Both have lived in Perth, NOR. Ones still there and has been for over ten years, the other moved away but was there for a few years. They both say the kebabs are no way near as nice as the ones in the U.K.  They say they’re ok but not a patch on the ones here.  Just an observation from them, not a moan. 

I still can't get my head around the idea, using kebabs as an example, specifically Turkish or Lebanese, as my suburb in Sydney is full of Lebanese and Turkish restaurants, some, eg. Abduls, have been there for over 50 years, how a London kebab can be noticeably different than a Sydney kebab.

When I go to my fave Turkish restaurant in Surry Hills, Erciyes (I think) as part of the "ethnic" experience, I like to have a Turkish beer - Efes - imported from Turkey.

Imagine if I said that the Efes imported to Australia from Turkey tastes worse than the same Efes imported to the UK from Turkey.
 

[Tulip1]

3 hours ago, Lavers said:

I've gotta say we have only had a few takeaways since being here and I must admit that I prefer the UK takeaways.

Although its probably only because it's what I'm used to.

It’s likely to be what you’re used to but some things may never grow on you. Chocolate is different in taste, not nearly  as creamy.  My sons noticed this when they moved out there and I used to take some over with me when I visited and we’d all say how much nicer it was. The last time one of my sons was back over here we got some chocolate and he actually said it tasted too rich and creamy. Just goes to show, his taste adapted to what he ate in Oz and now prefers that. It would probably be the same if an Australian came here. They’d think it too creamy and then years later they’d have the Australian version and say it tasted bland. Another thing that is different there is coleslaw, seems all vinegary rather than creamy. Just a few observations, not moaning in any way, nothing wrong with countries having some different tastes.