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How Long before you realised that Australia was or was not the place that you wanted to spend the rest of your days ?

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9 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

But I go back to my original question; why do you want to be able to go on a pub crawl? OK for students and Club 18-30 on holiday in Lloret or Benidorm, but once past 30 you surely need a pub where, like Cheers, everybody knows your name?

Club 18 - 30 brings back some good memories. 

Good times in Kavos & Falaraki 😜

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50 minutes ago, Red Rose said:

Maryrose the world you see through your lens is not the same world others see. I don't think you can't stand in the shoes of others and transpose how they should see the world according to you. Snoozy for instance has lived in Perth for longer than most people on these forums have been alive. If she has a particular view of the place who are we to question her perspective, especially if you are someone who has only ever passed through and spent a few days there 😉

It’s a public forum 

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On 20/11/2020 at 07:32, Marisawright said:

This is something that a lot of British migrants aren't aware of.  Britain doesn't have faceless dormitory suburbs to the same extent.  Many suburbs in British towns are long-established and will at least have their own pub, if nothing else.   To arrive in Australia and find the only thing you can afford is a wood-framed box in a suburb that doesn't even have shops (apart from a convenience store and a Chinese takeaway) is a shock. As you say, if you don't have kids so you can meet other parents through the school, it can be very lonely. 

Most Australian cities have vibrant inner-ring suburbs with lots to offer.  Some have pockets in the outer burbs which have developed their own thriving centre.  And of course, if you arrived early enough (like Paul) to buy near the beach, you're laughing.  But those dormitory suburbs are the pits.

Sounds like Edensor Park in the mid 1980s to a "T" - my brother bought his first house as a married couple (is that grammatical?) there, and I house sat for a weekend with my Mum, but not no car, and described it as being like living "in a open prison." (because there was nothing within walking distance).

But then again, "no car" and most people who live in the "outer burbs" have a car for every adult member of the family, and if you want a brand new home with three or more bedrooms, maybe pool, home cinema plus bbq of course and you do your entertaining at home.

I have to say too that many people who are brought up in those far burbs have no desire to move to those "vibrant inner-ring suburbs", including my brother and his wife, who now live at what he calls "North Goulburn" (near Camden). Tell a lie, he tell me that he was "bored" there. I must investigate and report back because he has lived in those kind of suburbs since he got married in 1986.

To be honest, I only moved to Surry Hills because I could cope with commuting from Narrabeen 26 km to the City, Garden Island, to be precise, and i wanted to be able to walk to work. Had I got my job at Penrith in 1982 instead of 2012 I probably would have moved there.

 

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23 minutes ago, ramot said:

It’s a public forum 

True to some extent, although it was 13 weeks not "a few days", ample time to get a feel for a place, and more than enough time to get a feel for Surfers Paradise too, where I have "only" been for 18 weeks.

After my second stint in Perth (7 weeks the first time, then 6 weeks 3 months later), I weighed things up - still had a job in Sydney, family and friends there, and decided I did not want to "emigrate" all over again. But i had no problems with Perth specifically or WA generally.

After 30 years living in Sydney, (18 years and 12 years) I'd probably be "narked" if someone "dissed" it after visiting for "a few days" although I hardly see it through rose-coloured spectacles - horrible traffic, i.e, a rush hour that lasts all day seven days a week. That was what struck me abut Perth immediately - able to drive for pleasure instead of an endurance test.


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1 hour ago, Lavers said:

Club 18 - 30 brings back some good memories. 

Good times in Kavos & Falaraki 😜

I never went on a Club 18-30 holiday. Not sure why as I went on mainly Spanish (plus one to Yugoslavia) holidays with mates from 1973 to 1977. I probably would have kept it up had I not come to Oz in 1978. Come to think of it my best (and worst) holiday was to Albufeira in 1983 on first triip back to England, and my last hurrah for my 20s.

Pick up the brochures just after New Year, book before the end of January for July or August, though I started having holidays at Easter too, and maybe a week in January.

It was one of the things I missed when I came to OZ - two week package holilday, - flight and half board. I did have two weeks at Club Med in Noumea once but it was never quite the same. Oddly enough, here I am in Surfers Paradise and it is not that dissimilar to Bendidorm, et al, full of clubs and bars, magnificent beach, guaranteed sunshine.

Perhaps there was (is?) more of a sense of "belonging" when you go on a holiday to one of those Spanish (or Greek?) hotels- you get to know the reps, the staff in the bar and the restaurant, you go on a couple of evening trips to the BBQ or whatever they called them - get a picture of the guy pouring wine down your face? Here in SP you get to stay in wonderful apartments or hotels but not quite the same "atmos""

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20 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

Do you NEED to go on a pub crawl?

at the moment......yes 😬

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11 hours ago, Lavers said:

Good times in Kavos & Falaraki

Ahh loved Rhodes went on my own and hired a car and went to Falaraki for the day ..... it was nuts, loved the island, would love to go back one day

I also accidentally went on a 18-30's when i was 32 ish, i booked what I thought was going to be  a romantic week in Gran canaria (canary isles) as I was going to propose to my wife as a surprise, the holiday firm said it was allocation on arrival so I did not get to pick the hotel anyhow they put us in this dump ++, i am talking no sleep as there was parties all night,, no air conditioning and we picked this time of year when the sahara winds come from the desert (did not realise when I booked) it got to 45c, the icing on the cake was having to roll up towels and put them against the gap at the bottom of the apartment door, as our room was ground floor and near the pool  when you turned the lights out at night you got literally hundreds of cockroaches trying to spend the night with you so we had to block up the gap to stop them coming in, however the reps where really nice and explained that the island was full up so no alternative accommodation was available but that we could come out on all their 18 -30 events for free, so we thought why not....and loved every minute of it, its not often you get to go on a pub crawl with 200 other complete strangers 😍

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We found that Australians tend to get together at someone's house and BYO drinks and food more than go out to pubs. Or meet somewhere outdoors and smuggle the drinks in. Not that much of a pub culture except in the inner cities. We did miss that at first but once you get to know a few people it is good to all relax in a backyard/house.

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13 hours ago, bug family said:

Ahh loved Rhodes went on my own and hired a car and went to Falaraki for the day ..... it was nuts, loved the island, would love to go back one day

I also accidentally went on a 18-30's when i was 32 ish, i booked what I thought was going to be  a romantic week in Gran canaria (canary isles) as I was going to propose to my wife as a surprise, the holiday firm said it was allocation on arrival so I did not get to pick the hotel anyhow they put us in this dump ++, i am talking no sleep as there was parties all night,, no air conditioning and we picked this time of year when the sahara winds come from the desert (did not realise when I booked) it got to 45c, the icing on the cake was having to roll up towels and put them against the gap at the bottom of the apartment door, as our room was ground floor and near the pool  when you turned the lights out at night you got literally hundreds of cockroaches trying to spend the night with you so we had to block up the gap to stop them coming in, however the reps where really nice and explained that the island was full up so no alternative accommodation was available but that we could come out on all their 18 -30 events for free, so we thought why not....and loved every minute of it, its not often you get to go on a pub crawl with 200 other complete strangers 😍

They where brilliant, 3 beds in a row and 1 set of draws between us and that was it.

Had to hide your things as the maids would go through your stuff seeing what they could pinch 😂.

Free shots when you went in a bar and drinks were dirt cheap.

The good old days, just seems life a life time ago.

We got married in Rhodes, my wife went back to Faliraki for another little hen do but it wasnt the same.

 

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On 18/11/2020 at 11:42, Marisawright said:

@Snoozy, I doubt there are communities like the Valleys in any city in Australia - but that's not being nasty to Australia.  You won't find communities like that in large cities in most other countries either.  It's the kind of community that grows up in villages, or in suburbs that started out as villages (e.g. in some parts of England).  It's a community that takes generations to develop, and the population in cities is too changeable for that.  

One problem is that different people have different needs when it comes to friendship. MaryRose is happy so long as the barman and the checkout chick recognize him, and he can find like-minded people to chat with in the pub. For some people, it's enough to have one good friend who'll be there for them in a crisis at 2 in the morning.  For others (like you), friendship means having a community which is almost like one big extended family - and that doesn't happen overnight.  

I wonder, if a Londoner moved to the Valleys, how long it would take him to be accepted and make real friends? 

I am a Cornishman from a small village and I can relate to community, such as doesn't exist in Australia. As a previous post I made, I have been in Perth for over 13 years, although travelled Australia, but in that  time I have made not a single friend. Acquaintances yes, friends no. Not that I haven't tried, just can't find a commonality. I am wishing to retire soon and can't see myself enjoying it in Australia. I have agreed with my family that I will return to  Cornwall where I can relate to others.  Currently it is only work that keeps me going. Had I come to Australia as a younger man with a young family things may have been different. All I can say is that you borrow your family, do what you feel is best for you. Soon as gone as forgotten. 

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6 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

I am a Cornishman from a small village and I can relate to community, such as doesn't exist in Australia. As a previous post I made, I have been in Perth for over 13 years, although travelled Australia, but in that  time I have made not a single friend. Acquaintances yes, friends no. Not that I haven't tried, just can't find a commonality. I am wishing to retire soon and can't see myself enjoying it in Australia. I have agreed with my family that I will return to  Cornwall where I can relate to others.  Currently it is only work that keeps me going. Had I come to Australia as a younger man with a young family things may have been different. All I can say is that you borrow your family, do what you feel is best for you. Soon as gone as forgotten. 

I have also found a lot of what you have said to be the case, I have work colleagues who are all lovely (well nearly all, i work with some angry nurses 😃 maybe it is me 🤔) anyhow  but none who I could call a close friend, the community aspect is also just not as strong here i have always felt that, maybe it is because i came from a small town to a sprawling suburb of Perth, I will return home also one day,  when are you planning on moving back and will you return to Cornwall? I was lucky enough to have returned home for a trip during December 2019 just prior to the Covid pandemic, i went home for the first time since coming to Australia, we (my son & I ) did a road trip all around Britain and loved every minute of it we visited Cornwall and went to lands end (Penzance) staying in a YHA in town, there was a big storm and a power cut in the hostel, it was a bit scary....  I loved every minute of it, it also reinforced for me that i belonged back home and not here, I got the feeling like I had never left within 5 minutes of leaving Manchester airport,.....the hardest part for me as I am sure will be for you is leaving your family behind, .........we get to choose the path we walk, but do not get to choose the outcome   

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2 hours ago, Pendragon said:

I am a Cornishman from a small village and I can relate to community, such as doesn't exist in Australia. As a previous post I made, I have been in Perth for over 13 years

I think it's unfair to say village community life doesn't exist in Australia.  I'm sure you would find it in the outback and smaller coastal towns.  It has nothing to do with being Australian and everything to do with whether you live in a small isolated place, or a big city. 

I had exactly the same problem in Southampton as you've had in Perth.  My sister had the same experience in another UK city.  It's the nature of big cities all over the world (unless they've swallowed up villages, in which case those villages sometimes retain their community).  

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Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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I would say I live in a community in the Adelaide Hills.  Lots of small towns/villages with green spaces in between leads to real communities where people know each other and they have events and social groups.  I know my neighbours, tradespeople, business owners and my local councillor (I do yoga with her on Sunday).  
we have a few new people on the street so we will have a get together and invite them to meet people when COVID restrictions allow.

We usually have such an event at someone’s house once a year, think it might be our turn now though!

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So many wineries ......so little time :yes:

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1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

I think it's unfair to say village community life doesn't exist in Australia.  I'm sure you would find it in the outback and smaller coastal towns.  It has nothing to do with being Australian and everything to do with whether you live in a small isolated place, or a big city. 

I had exactly the same problem in Southampton as you've had in Perth.  My sister had the same experience in another UK city.  It's the nature of big cities all over the world (unless they've swallowed up villages, in which case those villages sometimes retain their community).  

You’ve nailed it!

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3 hours ago, bug family said:

I have also found a lot of what you have said to be the case, I have work colleagues who are all lovely (well nearly all, i work with some angry nurses 😃 maybe it is me 🤔) anyhow  but none who I could call a close friend, the community aspect is also just not as strong here i have always felt that, maybe it is because i came from a small town to a sprawling suburb of Perth, I will return home also one day,  when are you planning on moving back and will you return to Cornwall? I was lucky enough to have returned home for a trip during December 2019 just prior to the Covid pandemic, i went home for the first time since coming to Australia, we (my son & I ) did a road trip all around Britain and loved every minute of it we visited Cornwall and went to lands end (Penzance) staying in a YHA in town, there was a big storm and a power cut in the hostel, it was a bit scary....  I loved every minute of it, it also reinforced for me that i belonged back home and not here, I got the feeling like I had never left within 5 minutes of leaving Manchester airport,.....the hardest part for me as I am sure will be for you is leaving your family behind, .........we get to choose the path we walk, but do not get to choose the outcome   

I travelled back home at the beginning of this year and in 13 years I have done the trip every year, sometimes twice in a year. My parents and sibling have all dies whilst I have been here. I have my oldest children in UK and grandkids. I also have same here from 2nd marriage, which is causing me some angst.

It's not just the community thing, it's the people or like you say is it me. Whatever if I can't make it work after this time it never will. Whilst old friends in UK would have moved on I do at least have a starting point. 

We have been married for over 20 years so to end that is a big move. But one can't live their life for others or least I can't. 

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2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

I think it's unfair to say village community life doesn't exist in Australia.  I'm sure you would find it in the outback and smaller coastal towns.  It has nothing to do with being Australian and everything to do with whether you live in a small isolated place, or a big city. 

I had exactly the same problem in Southampton as you've had in Perth.  My sister had the same experience in another UK city.  It's the nature of big cities all over the world (unless they've swallowed up villages, in which case those villages sometimes retain their community).  

I think you are right that small communities would exist in pockets of Australia. But like Australia this would be foreign to me. Isn't that I am not open to changes, I moved here,  I just find Australians too different.and hard to relate to. Mind I find that in Cornwall with someone say from London. I am the product of my environment.

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On 20/11/2020 at 15:26, MARYROSE02 said:

So you live out in the 'burbs in Perth as opposed to inside a town in Wales. That is not unusual. It's the same for my brother in Sydney. I can't think how far it is to the closest pub, not that he is a pub goer. Definitely not walking distance, so, what are the options, IF he wanted to go to the pub? Public transport? Ubar or cab both ways. (Is it really that exorbitant in Manduarah? Here is is 5km to Southport and the cab cost me about $15. I know because I did it with my brother when had some eye operations. What about courtesy buses? Many pubs and clubs offer that service. My brother lived in Picnic Point a few years back, a good half an hour's walk away from Revesby and Revesby Workers' Club had a courtesy bus which would pick you up and take you home, very cheap.  I could get off the train at Revesby, walk over to the club and book a ride in the courtesy bus instead of waiting for a cab.

We all have to adapt to our surroundings.  You could always drive and not drink too.

Mandurah is a bit dead, apart from round the estuary where they have a nice boardwalk, decent pubs and restaurants.

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1 hour ago, Pendragon said:

  I just find Australians too different.and hard to relate to. Mind I find that in Cornwall with someone say from London. I am the product of my environment.

That’s what I’m talking about. It’s a big city vs village thing anywhere in the world 

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Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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On 20/11/2020 at 21:42, MARYROSE02 said:

Do you NEED to go on a pub crawl? What are the attractions of a pub crawl? If you want a pub crawl in Australia - pick any city or large town. Let me think, Surfers Paradise: Avenue, Gillies, Joes, Waxys, Steam Punk, Kitty O'Sheas, Surfers Club, Diggers Club, Hotel Cavill, Clock Hotel, another Irish bar I can't think of the name, German beer cellar place, plus innumerable clubs I don't count because I am too old, and all the bars I mentioned are the ones within 500 metres of where I live. And I have left out restaurants.

Surry Hills where I usually live: No point in naming them. It's an inner city suburb same as Newtown, Darlinghurst, Glebe, Balmain, East Sydney, with bars every 100 metres or so.

Northbridge, in Perth where I stayed for a week in the street where the WA police HQ is? Two Irish pubs for a start and then numerous others.

But I go back to my original question; why do you want to be able to go on a pub crawl? OK for students and Club 18-30 on holiday in Lloret or Benidorm, but once past 30 you surely need a pub where, like Cheers, everybody knows your name?

Mate, I'm 66 and still like a pub crawl if I can get friends to join in. We go out on the bikes to Hillary's, there are a few pubs there and you can come back on the bike path. Happy hour is good.

Perth City is good for a pub crawl now. Didn't used to be that good apart from Northbridge, but they changed the licensing laws and there's lots of small bars and breweries opened up. I prefer it to Freo now. Train service is excellent so no need to drive.

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I defy anyone who has watched Heather Ewarts program the Back Roads, to tell me there is no community spirit in Australia

It’s probably interesting our personal definition of community, is it only a community if you have lived there all your life, went to school with everyone, or can it be where you have settled, made friends even if it’s only for the here and now?  Do you even need to be part of a community to be happy?

In The last village that I lived in In UK in Nottinghamshire, we lived on the main road and In all the 11 years I hardly knew a neighbour, but the community I was in, was through the children’s primary school and their activities. There were probably plenty of individual communities within the village, drawn together by common interests, but apart from the annual village show, there was little common ground.

I have never lived in a row of terraced houses, with little or no front garden, but have moved 17 times since I was married  and guilty of driving into the garage and spending time indoors or in the garden,  always friendly to neighbours,  but not friends. 

Living in RAF quarters was again different, we never had family near, so we supported each other in a friendly way but it was a very transient life, certainly a community but out of necessity rather than long term friendships of living in one place most of your life. I genuinely don’t know what living in one place most of your life feels like, and I have never had an extended family at all let alone living close, but I do know I couldn’t stand neighbours popping in and out, 

The day we moved into our house on the Sunshine Coast, our neighbours invited us in for coffee. Almost  18 years later we and our other neighbours, don’t go out of our way to live in each other’s pockets, we celebrate Christmas and Christmas in July together with a great street party, and celebrate the occasional milestone together. We would do anything for each other, when our neighbours husband started sadly to have Falls, she knew she could phone day or night for help, and we did on many occasions. We aren’t the only neighbour who checks on her after a bad storm.

I also think life is very different now. When I was married in 1970, not many wives worked, so were around more in the daytime, and we helped to look after each other’s children, took our children to toddler groups and playgroups. Nowadays I think the majority of women work, and children are in daycare, sometimes from a very young age and for long hours. No time for socialising or chatting at the end of a long day. 

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Join a Probus club- for 60+ retirees. There are quite a few people with British backgrounds in the Club I belong to. During the lockdown it has been great zooming our Probus friends and having virtual ukulele sessions! Look up Probus South Pacific. 

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49 minutes ago, starlight7 said:

Join a Probus club- for 60+ retirees. There are quite a few people with British backgrounds in the Club I belong to. During the lockdown it has been great zooming our Probus friends and having virtual ukulele sessions! Look up Probus South Pacific. 

I 2nd that 

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6 hours ago, rammygirl said:

I would say I live in a community in the Adelaide Hills.  Lots of small towns/villages with green spaces in between leads to real communities where people know each other and they have events and social groups.  I know my neighbours, tradespeople, business owners and my local councillor (I do yoga with her on Sunday).  
we have a few new people on the street so we will have a get together and invite them to meet people when COVID restrictions allow.

We usually have such an event at someone’s house once a year, think it might be our turn now though!

Oh and we are not remote. I can walk to restaurants, supermarkets cellar doors galleries shops etc.   ten mins to nearest cinema and  theatre 20 mins to CBD 40 mins to our favourite beach half an hour to airport with luck!  
I can walk in countryside from my house too. 
 

 

 

 

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So many wineries ......so little time :yes:

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6 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

Mate, I'm 66 and still like a pub crawl if I can get friends to join in. We go out on the bikes to Hillary's, there are a few pubs there and you can come back on the bike path. Happy hour is good.

Perth City is good for a pub crawl now. Didn't used to be that good apart from Northbridge, but they changed the licensing laws and there's lots of small bars and breweries opened up. I prefer it to Freo now. Train service is excellent so no need to drive.

66?! You are the same age as me! Younger or older though? I am Anzac Day. Pub crawls for me are limited to, going to one pub, the Trinity say in Surry Hills, which on a Sunday closes about 10pm, so then I walk down to the Crown or the Surrey Club which close at midnight, and then, foolishly, I want another beer so it's Molly Malones which closes at 4am  I think though I never stayed much beyond 1am.

I remember the young(er) guys I know inviting me on a "S%^& pub crawl" for one of them's 40th birthday. I was flattered to be invited by I declined.  I am surprised they got past the security once they had passed 5 or 6 drinks.

Here in Surfers, I went to the Surfers Club for dinner with my brother and after that closed I fancied one more so went into another place I know which closes after midnight. Most of them are open actually till 3am I think.

I like to find one or two places and become a known "face", hence in Perth it was the Windsor and Raffles depending upon where I was staying.

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5 hours ago, starlight7 said:

Join a Probus club- for 60+ retirees. There are quite a few people with British backgrounds in the Club I belong to. During the lockdown it has been great zooming our Probus friends and having virtual ukulele sessions! Look up Probus South Pacific. 

I did look them up in the Gold Coast area, after you mentioned it before? It is something for me to think about.

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