Is Dan Andrews doing the right thing?

[theonetruechris]

10 minutes ago, Canada2Australia said:

And it's flamebait posts like these that start the inevitable sh**storm of personal attack comments towards other members simply because they share a differing opinion. Exactly the reason why I don't post in these types of toxic threads anymore (besides this post).

Flame bait??? New to me. If you want to suggest that inclusivity and diversity has caused the problems with the COVID 19 in Victoria then I consider the post to be somewhat toxic in and of itself. Also a little preemptive on the personal attack comments

[Paul1Perth]

1 hour ago, theonetruechris said:

where to start Paul, where to start, who are these people you speak of and whom is in a position due to diversity and inclusion?

I can only assume you're a bit cross that jobs you see as being exclusively for straight white males (they're the best at anything / everything) have been denied them because they're not diverse enough and anyone else is bound by nature to fail because the best person for the job is.......

Its OK to be a bigot buttercup all society is a construct with the only truth being your own - don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

The people I speak of are the ones who made the decision to have private security companies look after the quarantine. Despite concerns that a lot of them are cowboy operations with untrained, lowly paid workers and despite the offer of well trained ADF personnel.

Where did I say white males are the best at everything? You sound like one of the woke, cancel culture mob. Backed up by your assumption that I'm a bigotted buttercup.

[Quinkla]

49 minutes ago, theonetruechris said:

If you want to suggest that inclusivity and diversity has caused the problems with the COVID 19 in Victoria then I consider the post to be somewhat toxic in and of itself. 

Agreed. The hidden subtext of the Liberal argument is that the security guard super spreader is Muslim and spread the virus at an Eid festival - and that Muslim families have not been adhering to the social distancing requirements - and if you had used white soldiers or police instead of Muslim private security guards it would all be hunky dory. They cannot say this is as any words, but it is the subtext of a lot of their rhetoric. 

 

 

[Paul1Perth]

1 hour ago, Canada2Australia said:

And it's flamebait posts like these that start the inevitable sh**storm of personal attack comments towards other members simply because they share a differing opinion. Exactly the reason why I don't post in these types of toxic threads anymore (besides this post).

It's OK C2A, I'm not upset by it. Not worth it.

Seems that plenty of commentary by people a lot more in the know than me blamed exactly the same thing I brought up. No one knows anything about it now though.

[Paul1Perth]

1 minute ago, Quinkla said:

Agreed. The hidden subtext of the Liberal argument is that the security guard super spreader is Muslim and spread the virus at an Eid festival - and that Muslim families have not been adhering to the social distancing requirements - and if you had used white soldiers or police instead of Muslim private security guards it would all be hunky dory. They cannot say this is as any words, but it is the subtext of a lot of their rhetoric. 

 

 

Well you summed it up pretty well. Who is their BTW. You must have seen it in the Australian, like I did, or seen the laughable excuses for who made decisions.

You might be surprised to hear that the ADF is not made up of white males. Who knows what gender and creed would have turned up. There's a good mixture in defence forces.

[Quinkla]

8 minutes ago, Paul1Perth said:

You might be surprised to hear that the ADF is not made up of white males. Who knows what gender and creed would have turned up. There's a good mixture in defence forces.

Indeed, but the reality is not really relevant - it is about dog whistles. 

[Dusty Plains]

6 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

There are too many people in power in Victoria who want diversity and inclusion at the cost of proffesionalism and ability. Trouble is, when it goes wrong they won't own up to it.

 

I agree.

If you have lived in Australia since the early 80's, Victoria has almost always been the realm of the woke lefties and they have regular form in devouring their own. Like lefty leaders are want to do, its the fact that they "want to do nothing" Think Joan Kirner Labor Premier of Victoria.

The exception would be John Cain, a labor premier of Victoria in the 1980s who attempted to break the Labor mould by reducing taxes, curbing spending and establishing financial institutions such as Pyramid ( which collapsed in the 1987 recession) and backing the Tricontinental merchant bank to kick start the Victorian economy, as well as castigating tram drivers when they went on strike. The Victorian union movement was baying for Cain's blood.

Even though I would never vote left of middle I think that John Cain genuinely tried desperately to drag Victoria into the black while all the time knowing that he was going to be turfed out by his own colleagues. He put Victoria first, over his own political career.

Compare this to the incumbent Vic Premier who is the complete antithesis of John Cain as a Labor premier.  A woke, do-nothing media tart, there quite obviously for himself, and not for Victorians, right in the middle of Victoria's and Australia's greatest social and economic upheaval.

[starlight7]

Just hope there is a change in the Victorian government before the state goes to hell in a handcart. The dishonesty and lies are just too much but the opposition seems to either be unreported or just p***weak.
 

 

 

 

 

[Paul1Perth]

12 hours ago, starlight7 said:

Just hope there is a change in the Victorian government before the state goes to hell in a handcart. The dishonesty and lies are just too much but the opposition seems to either be unreported or just p***weak.
 

 

 

 

 

If the Liberals can get a decent leader with a bit of personality they should be OK. Who is the opposition leader there?

[Alan Collett]

16 minutes ago, Paul1Perth said:

If the Liberals can get a decent leader with a bit of personality they should be OK. Who is the opposition leader there?

Bring back Jeff Kennett!

Best regards.

[starlight7]

2 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

If the Liberals can get a decent leader with a bit of personality they should be OK. Who is the opposition leader there?

Michael O'Brien.  You know what, he has such a low profile I had to look him up. Says it all, really.

[starlight7]

We came in the days of Gough Whitlam. Like him or loathe him, he was a giant figure of a man with tons of personality.  Same applied to Bob Hawke and even Paul Keating.  Locally in Victoria we haven't had a good personality since Jeff ( who I didn't vote for) and maybe John Cain.  They have all been pathetic.  I don't know about the UK- at least their lot seem to have a bit of personality.

[newjez]

1 hour ago, starlight7 said:

We came in the days of Gough Whitlam. Like him or loathe him, he was a giant figure of a man with tons of personality.  Same applied to Bob Hawke and even Paul Keating.  Locally in Victoria we haven't had a good personality since Jeff ( who I didn't vote for) and maybe John Cain.  They have all been pathetic.  I don't know about the UK- at least their lot seem to have a bit of personality.

John major, Tony Blair, Gordon brown, David Cameron? Theresa may?

Boris yes, but the man's an idiot.

Edited September 30, 2020 by newjez

[newjez]

1 hour ago, starlight7 said:

We came in the days of Gough Whitlam. Like him or loathe him, he was a giant figure of a man with tons of personality.  Same applied to Bob Hawke and even Paul Keating.  Locally in Victoria we haven't had a good personality since Jeff ( who I didn't vote for) and maybe John Cain.  They have all been pathetic.  I don't know about the UK- at least their lot seem to have a bit of personality.

Gough was tough till he hit the rough, uncle Sam and John were quite enough.

[Jon the Hat]

The standard of politicians everywhere seems pretty poor these days.  Maybe we are just getting old.  Seriously though, Trump vs Biden, the state of the lightweights in the UK cabinet, it is a shit show.  Don't know enough about Aussie politicians to comment really.

[starlight7]

Makes you sick just to watch those two ( Trump and Biden) 

[Dusty Plains]

40 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

The standard of politicians everywhere seems pretty poor these days.  Maybe we are just getting old.  Seriously though, Trump vs Biden, the state of the lightweights in the UK cabinet, it is a shit show.  Don't know enough about Aussie politicians to comment really.

I'm not a Labor voter but I am also not one-eyed. We have had some great leaders who actually got things done. These include Bob Hawke as PM (Labor), and John Howard as PM (Liberal). John Howard stood up in front of numerous hostile crowds of gun owners across the country, telling them that they needed to hand in their guns. I admired both. 

 

[Quinkla]

23 hours ago, Dusty Plains said:

Compare this to the incumbent Vic Premier ...  A woke, do-nothing media tart, there quite obviously for himself, and not for Victorians, right in the middle of Victoria's and Australia's greatest social and economic upheaval.

This, more than anything, shows you don't actually know anything about Victorian politics. Ted Baillieu (Liberal Premier from 2010-2012) was known as Do Nothing Ted. The Libs had not expected to win the 2010 election and seemed paralysed when they got in. 

Daniel Andrews got elected in 2014 and was on a mission to do things. The criticisms from the Opposition were that he was doing too much, spending too much especially on level crossing removal and major infrastructure projects. He was far from a media tart - signing up to all sorts of campaigns that were unpopular (including marriage equality, euthanasia, medicinal cannabis, injecting rooms, safe schools, tearing up the East-West contract). In the 2018 election, the Liberals led out on a crime agenda - particularly African gangs. This did not resonate with people because (a) crime had actually fallen and (b) their leader was caught having a fundraising dinner at The Lobster Cave with Tony Madafferi, an actual crime godfather who is alleged to have ordered the hit on Mario Condello (see Underbelly Series 1).

The fact that you think the Liberals will sort the state out, despite not knowing what their policies are, pr what previous election campaigns have been fought on suggests you are just trolling.

Edited September 30, 2020 by Quinkla

[starlight7]

Have to admit, much though I don’t agree with him or like him, Dan had done far more than any of his recent predecessors. What did that vet bloke do? Can’t think of anything.Bracks built a wonderful pipeline from the dry part of the state to the wetter part which he was warned about and never got used. What happened to the very expensive recycling water plant down in Gippsland ? What a waste that was.

[Dusty Plains]

A report in today's Herald Sun :

"Premier Daniel Andrews has slapped down suggestions he should resign in the wake of the hotel quarantine inquiry during a tense exchange.

It comes after lawyers assisting Justice Coate told the board of inquiry they could “comfortably find” the program failed in its objectives and in doing so led to the deaths of 768 people.

WorkSafe has also been approached to consider whether government politicians and public servants could be held responsible for workplace manslaughter.

When asked on Wednesday if the CEO of a private company would be expected to resign if their businesses was linked to as many deaths, Mr Andrews pushed back. He said he was not a “corporate commentator” and the inquiry was yet to release its report."

[Quinkla]

14 minutes ago, Dusty Plains said:

A report in today's Herald Sun...

... which is not the first place I would go for impartial reporting.

But self-evidently the quarantine programme failed to meet its objective. The question is whether that was down to foreseeable problems - in which case you might want heads to roll - or whether it was just bad luck. 

I am interested to note that:

• Victoria was doing heavy lifting in quarantining returned travellers that other states/territories didn't want to deal with
• nobody has called for heads to roll following the Ruby Princess infections, even though that clearly was the result of poor decision making
• the quarantine programme in NSW also used private security guards, some of whom became infected and spread it in the community
• the Prime Minister is suggesting that asking returned travellers to self-isolate at home might be the way forward because it seemed to work in February/March - which kinda goes against the Vic Libs idea that we needed soldiers to keep returned travellers in quarantine

It would be really great if the Vic Libs could set aside party politics and pull together in this crisis, which is what oppositions seems to have done at both a federal and state level everywhere else. But I guess the real issue is that the Vic Libs are struggling to oppose a successful Premier whose government has achieved more than any Victorian government for decades, and they don't think they can afford to miss a moment to undermine him through adopting a bipartisan approach. 

[Paul1Perth]

16 hours ago, newjez said:

John major, Tony Blair, Gordon brown, David Cameron? Theresa may?

Boris yes, but the man's an idiot.

Tony Blair had personality, got him through a good few years. The others, apart from Boris though, zero. He comes across as a bit of a loon.

[Paul1Perth]

20 hours ago, Alan Collett said:

Bring back Jeff Kennett!

Best regards.

I didn't like him one bit. Still don't.

[Paul1Perth]

15 hours ago, starlight7 said:

Makes you sick just to watch those two ( Trump and Biden) 

I thought I'd catch up on a bit of UK news yesterday. Sky usually has the previous days breakfast show on when we get up here. Checked the news channels and 5 channels, including our own ABC were showing the Trump Biden debate.

Watched some French tennis instead. Couldn't stand to watch those 2 try and outdo each other.

Edited September 30, 2020 by Paul1Perth

[Paul1Perth]

15 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

The standard of politicians everywhere seems pretty poor these days.  Maybe we are just getting old.  Seriously though, Trump vs Biden, the state of the lightweights in the UK cabinet, it is a shit show.  Don't know enough about Aussie politicians to comment really.

I don't think the standards have changed, just that there's so many news channels that they have to fill up that we hear their every utterrance. Either that or they take to twitter and the news channels report on that.

History tells us that Churchill was a great leader. I watched 3 films about his life a couple of years back and,  depending on which one you watched he was a great leader in one to a bumbling drunken idiot in another who depended on his wife for all the decisions.

What do you believe?