Is Dan Andrews doing the right thing?

[Quinkla]

16 minutes ago, Dusty Plains said:

Once again its just another example throughout the posts here on PIO, of the many ways in which the states are reasonably similar, with the exception that there is a wholly dissimilar Victorian leadership when compared to other states. 

I am always grateful to people who live in other states telling me about the performance of our Premier. 

Out of interest, in what way is Daniel Andrews's leadership different to, say, the leadership of Annastacia Palaszczuk? Or Gladys Berijiklian, come to think of it? What could/should he have done differently? How have other states and territories done things differently? 

Because I know right now the far right is criticising Daniel Andrews's every move - either for being dictatorial or being weak - for imposing restrictions or for not having strict enough restrictions. And they are saying that he has done a terrible job, but never quite explaining what was terrible about it. It reminds me a lot of when the far right was criticising Hillary Clinton for being terrible, but they couldn't quite say what was terrible about her. 

If anyone is being played right now, it's the Dictator Dan-bots. 

[Dusty Plains]

2 hours ago, Quinkla said:

I am always grateful to people who live in other states telling me about the performance of our Premier. 

Out of interest, in what way is Daniel Andrews's leadership different to, say, the leadership of Annastacia Palaszczuk? Or Gladys Berijiklian, come to think of it? What could/should he have done differently? How have other states and territories done things differently? 

Because I know right now the far right is criticising Daniel Andrews's every move - either for being dictatorial or being weak - for imposing restrictions or for not having strict enough restrictions. And they are saying that he has done a terrible job, but never quite explaining what was terrible about it. It reminds me a lot of when the far right was criticising Hillary Clinton for being terrible, but they couldn't quite say what was terrible about her. 

If anyone is being played right now, it's the Dictator Dan-bots. 

The far right?? Who is that?  There is no far-right of any influence or consequence in Australia.  

[rtritudr]

12 hours ago, Marisawright said:

I agree that contact tracing in Victoria didn't work well because they chose a centralised model instead of a local one like NSW.  But let's face it, no one has ever done this before - it was a mistake to centralise and the system got overwhelmed.  It's unfortunate but I do believe the team though they were doing the right thing at the time.  Even government officials are human.

Contact tracing is old technology.  But you are right that it hasn't been used intensively in Australia for quite some time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contact_tracing

[starlight7]

I removed the app from my phone, didn't seem to do anything except tell them where you are which I thought intrusive. They have gone very quiet about it-- another 'bright' idea gone south I guess and I hate to think how much they paid for it out of our taxes.

[starlight7]

They don't know what 'far right' is in Australia, I agree. Don't exist. Neither does a 'far left'- we are all comfortingly bland compared with other countries.

[newjez]

1 hour ago, starlight7 said:

They don't know what 'far right' is in Australia, I agree. Don't exist. Neither does a 'far left'- we are all comfortingly bland compared with other countries.

National party?

[Dusty Plains]

9 hours ago, starlight7 said:

They don't know what 'far right' is in Australia, I agree. Don't exist. Neither does a 'far left'- we are all comfortingly bland compared with other countries.

Its been an interesting thread. Even when presented with the facts there are some posters on here who are in complete denial or should that be DANial. So far the following have been claimed to be the cause of the disaster in Victoria;

Gladys Berejiklian

The Commonwealth

Bad Luck

The Sydney Marriot Hotel

 NSW and WA

"Four returned travellers" , and now:

The "Far Right"

Who is next,?,,,,,,the Boy Scouts?

[starlight7]

Its

4 hours ago, Dusty Plains said:

Its been an interesting thread. Even when presented with the facts there are some posters on here who are in complete denial or should that be DANial. So far the following have been claimed to be the cause of the disaster in Victoria;

Gladys Berejiklian

The Commonwealth

Bad Luck

The Sydney Marriot Hotel

 NSW and WA

"Four returned travellers" , and now:

The "Far Right"

Who is next,?,,,,,,the Boy Scouts?

 It’s all them furrunners coming in with their germs and furrun ways

[starlight7]

11 hours ago, newjez said:

National party?

More or less gone now.

[Quinkla]

4 hours ago, Dusty Plains said:

So far the following have been claimed to be the cause of the disaster in Victoria...

Hi Dusty. I think the issue might be that you don't fully understand causation. Just because something has been mentioned does not mean people are suggesting it is a cause. For example, I don't think anyone has suggested Gladys Berejiklian, NSW or WA caused the second wave of Covid in Victoria. Similarly, the fact that you can't point to what Daniel Andrews did, should have done or could have done also suggests you are not fully understanding the concept of cause and effect. Rather, you are just linking things that happen at the same time - magical thinking, if you will. It's a bit like not stepping on the cracks in the pavement in case bad things happen.  

Edited September 28, 2020 by Quinkla

[Marisawright]

16 hours ago, rtritudr said:

Contact tracing is old technology.  But you are right that it hasn't been used intensively in Australia for quite some time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contact_tracing

Sorry I should have been clearer.  That is what I meant.

[Dusty Plains]

3 hours ago, Quinkla said:

you can't point to what Daniel Andrews did,

Nobody can. 

[Dusty Plains]

5 hours ago, Quinkla said:

Hi Dusty. I think the issue might be that you don't fully understand causation. Just because something has been mentioned does not mean people are suggesting it is a cause. For example, I don't think anyone has suggested Gladys Berejiklian, NSW or WA caused the second wave of Covid in Victoria. Similarly, the fact that you can't point to what Daniel Andrews did, should have done or could have done also suggests you are not fully understanding the concept of cause and effect. Rather, you are just linking things that happen at the same time - magical thinking, if you will. It's a bit like not stepping on the cracks in the pavement in case bad things happen.  

So is this comment to be greeted with a similar amount of amusement to that of your previous assertion that everything was the fault of "the far right".  Now its all about me.  

Do what I have done and try this :

"Is Dan Andrews Doing the Right Thing?" 

Looking forward to your view and any facts to back your argument.

 

 

 

 

[Quinkla]

1 hour ago, Dusty Plains said:

Nobody can. 

So be bold - what should he have done? Perhaps you could identify something that the leaders in other states and territories did that helped them avoid a second wave...

 

So is this comment to be greeted with a similar amount of amusement to that of your previous assertion that everything was the fault of "the far right".  Now its all about me.  

Like I say, you really don't understand cause and effect, do you?

Edited September 28, 2020 by Quinkla

[Dusty Plains]

40 minutes ago, Quinkla said:

So be bold - what should he have done? Perhaps you could identify something that the leaders in other states and territories did that helped them avoid a second wave...

 

Like I say, you really don't understand cause and effect, do you?

Simple. They did what Dan Andrews could not do, and that was they served the interests of the people and not their own political agenda. 

Edited September 28, 2020 by Dusty Plains

[Quinkla]

Just now, Dusty Plains said:

So is that yet more confirmation that you do not prefer to debate the subject matter? 

You asserted that Daniel Andrews had stuffed up. You need to point to some act or omission to back up your assertion. That's how it works. 

[Dusty Plains]

1 minute ago, Quinkla said:

You asserted that Daniel Andrews had stuffed up. You need to point to some act or omission to back up your assertion. That's how it works. 

Have already done that ad infinitum. Lets hear your counter assertion, backed up by the facts.  

[Quinkla]

6 minutes ago, Dusty Plains said:

Have already done that ad infinitum. 

No you haven't. You have made a vague statement about lack of leadership and accountability - as far as I can tell using the high infection numbers to assert that he mist have done something wrong. But you haven't yet said what he should have done differently, despite repeated prompts for you to do so. The basic rules of debate are that if you make an assertion, you should be able to support it with evidence or explanation. Unless/until you do so, you are not debating, you are just sloganeering. 

Edited September 28, 2020 by Quinkla

[Dusty Plains]

1 minute ago, Quinkla said:

No you haven't. You have made a vague statement about lack of leadership and accountability - as far as I can tell using the high infection numbers to assert that he mist have done something wrong. But you haven't yet said what he should have done differently, despite repeated prompts for you to do so. The basic rules of debate are that if you make an assertion, you should be able to support it with evidence or explanation. Unless/until you do so, you are not debating, you are just sloganeering. 

And raising the spectre of the "far right"  was NOT sloganeering??  Who said this was a debate?  I'll bite though. The rules of debate also require at least two different points of view. Lets hear yours 

[Alan Collett]

On 26/09/2020 at 09:47, Quinkla said:

So Jenny Mikakos has resigned. I hope history will record the immense work that she and her Department did in good faith to try to rescue Victoria from a really bad situation. 

Mikakos had to go.    I don't doubt she meant well.   But she was in a position which was (IMHO) well beyond her competencies.

In spite of their good intentions I anticipate the level of incompetence displayed by the Department of Health will become clearer as time goes on.

At least an official or two at NSW Health and the State Premier had the decency to apologise for the Ruby Princess experience at their enquiry.

It's all buck passing and I know nothing here in Victoria.

Best regards.

 

[Alan Collett]

On 27/09/2020 at 19:12, Quinkla said:

I am always grateful to people who live in other states telling me about the performance of our Premier. 

Out of interest, in what way is Daniel Andrews's leadership different to, say, the leadership of Annastacia Palaszczuk? Or Gladys Berijiklian, come to think of it? What could/should he have done differently? How have other states and territories done things differently? 

Because I know right now the far right is criticising Daniel Andrews's every move - either for being dictatorial or being weak - for imposing restrictions or for not having strict enough restrictions. And they are saying that he has done a terrible job, but never quite explaining what was terrible about it. It reminds me a lot of when the far right was criticising Hillary Clinton for being terrible, but they couldn't quite say what was terrible about her. 

If anyone is being played right now, it's the Dictator Dan-bots. 

The right appears far right the further left you go ...

Best regards.

[Alan Collett]

7 hours ago, Quinkla said:

Hi Dusty. I think the issue might be that you don't fully understand causation. Just because something has been mentioned does not mean people are suggesting it is a cause. For example, I don't think anyone has suggested Gladys Berejiklian, NSW or WA caused the second wave of Covid in Victoria. Similarly, the fact that you can't point to what Daniel Andrews did, should have done or could have done also suggests you are not fully understanding the concept of cause and effect. Rather, you are just linking things that happen at the same time - magical thinking, if you will. It's a bit like not stepping on the cracks in the pavement in case bad things happen.  

Well he could have accepted the offer of support from the ADF for starters.

There's more to be revealed in this regard as well, I feel sure.   

This issue has been rather in the background since the "I know nothing/it wasn't my job" enquiry into the security guards nonsense.

Cynicism into the motives and abilities of our political leaders has surely reached new heights.    They have been found wanting big time.

Best regards.

[Paul1Perth]

14 hours ago, Alan Collett said:

Well he could have accepted the offer of support from the ADF for starters.

There's more to be revealed in this regard as well, I feel sure.   

This issue has been rather in the background since the "I know nothing/it wasn't my job" enquiry into the security guards nonsense.

Cynicism into the motives and abilities of our political leaders has surely reached new heights.    They have been found wanting big time.

Best regards.

There are too many people in power in Victoria who want diversity and inclusion at the cost of proffesionalism and ability. Trouble is, when it goes wrong they won't own up to it.

[theonetruechris]

46 minutes ago, Paul1Perth said:

There are too many people in power in Victoria who want diversity and inclusion at the cost of proffesionalism and ability. Trouble is, when it goes wrong they won't own up to it.

where to start Paul, where to start, who are these people you speak of and whom is in a position due to diversity and inclusion?

I can only assume you're a bit cross that jobs you see as being exclusively for straight white males (they're the best at anything / everything) have been denied them because they're not diverse enough and anyone else is bound by nature to fail because the best person for the job is.......

Its OK to be a bigot buttercup all society is a construct with the only truth being your own - don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

[Canada2Australia]

56 minutes ago, theonetruechris said:

where to start Paul, where to start, who are these people you speak of and whom is in a position due to diversity and inclusion?

I can only assume you're a bit cross that jobs you see as being exclusively for straight white males (they're the best at anything / everything) have been denied them because they're not diverse enough and anyone else is bound by nature to fail because the best person for the job is.......

Its OK to be a bigot buttercup all society is a construct with the only truth being your own - don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

And it's flamebait posts like these that start the inevitable sh**storm of personal attack comments towards other members simply because they share a differing opinion. Exactly the reason why I don't post in these types of toxic threads anymore (besides this post).

Edited September 29, 2020 by Canada2Australia