Is Dan Andrews doing the right thing?

[Alan Collett]

10 minutes ago, Peach said:

TBH when was the last time you saw a politician from any side front up to any enquiry and answer any questions open and transparently?

Surely Mikakos is toast.

How the State Premier can say she has his confidence betrays his lack of fortitude too.

Someone - and hopefully more than one - has to take the rap for this debacle.

Best regards.

[Peach]

3 minutes ago, Alan Collett said:

Surely Mikakos is toast.

How the State Premier can say she has his confidence betrays his lack of fortitude too.

Someone - and hopefully more than one - has to take the rap for this debacle.

Best regards.

In a similar vein, our pollies (and their advisors) seem to mostly avoid falling on their swords these days.   I get that you're angry, but why aren't you angry at the dolts that didn't self-isolate? 

 

 

[Alan Collett]

3 minutes ago, Peach said:

In a similar vein, our pollies (and their advisors) seem to mostly avoid falling on their swords these days.   I get that you're angry, but why aren't you angry at the dolts that didn't self-isolate? 

 

 

You should be comforted in the knowledge that I'm piqued by them as well!

At the political level I would like some accountability please.

It's the absence of it that causes such cynicism out here in the real world.

Best regards.

 

 

[Quinkla]

9 minutes ago, Alan Collett said:

Surely Mikakos is toast.

How the State Premier can say she has his confidence betrays his lack of fortitude too.

Someone - and hopefully more than one - has to take the rap for this debacle.

Best regards.

What is the debacle, though?

I understand that you are hurting and want to have someone to blame and punish. But this really is just bad luck. There is a killer virus out there and we have never seen anything like it. Other countries are struggling just as much as us, and many are struggling even more. We are trying to deal with it in good faith, and most states and territories have a bipartisan approach. Victoria seems to be unique in having an Opposition who are taking every opportunity to criticise, sabotage and trip people up.

The "ineptitude" seems to be around using private security guards in quarantine hotels. Other states did the same. It made sense at the time. If Victoria had decided to send in the troops, it would have added fuel to the Dictator Dan attacks. We would have seen the Opposition calling for use of civilians to boost jobs. Hindsight is always perfect, but people did the best they could. It is understandable now with the attack dogs of the far right being let loose that ministers and officials are circumspect about telling it like it really is. It would be far more productive, I think, to work together, learn from lessons, and create shared solutions. But I don't expect a lot from a political party that blew millions by signing contracts for a road link that they knew the ALP had committed to scrapping in four weeks time - just so they would have ammunition to lob at the new Government. And a party that tried to make people afraid of crime when crime levels were actually falling - and then their leader got caught trying to solicit money from an actual organised crime godfather. 

It really makes me want to say "grow up". Oppositions need to show leadership because they are supposed to be  government in waiting - not just heckling and jeering from the cheap seats. 

 

[Alan Collett]

Respectfully -  I would prefer not to be patronised.

I like to think my perspective is a tad more nuanced than you are suggesting.

Onwards!

 

[Dusty Plains]

1 hour ago, rtritudr said:

So are you saying that if Victoria doesn't consent then NSW cannot reopen the borders? What would happen if NSW decided to unilaterally reopen the borders? Is Victoria going to stop people from their side of the border entering NSW?

Good point. Earlier on Queenslanders were banned from returning home to Qld if they remained too long in NSW.  If NSW opened its border with Vic I don't think that the Victorian government is going to ban its citizens from entering NSW or South Australia as the case may be.  

[Alan Collett]

Dan Andrews at the enquiry this afternoon:

"Mr Andrews says we should know who decided to use private security but he doesn’t.

“It’s one of a number of important questions,” he said.

Mr Andrews says it is alarming no one involved in the collective decision making process to use private security guards seemed aware of their involvement.

“It is very disappointing,” he said.

He said collective decision making did not remove accountability."

I agree!     

Best regards.

[rtritudr]

7 hours ago, Alan Collett said:

You are joking surely.

Have you seen the ineptitude of the Government on display at the enquiry this week?

Having watched both the Melbourne inquiry as well as the Ruby Princess Inquiry I must say that they are equally deplorable.

BTW, Melbourne hotels aren't the only ones to have leaked the virus into the community.  The Sydney Marriott Hotel managed to put two infected security guards into the community too.  It was only good luck that these two embers didn't create a wildfire.

Edited September 25, 2020 by rtritudr

[Marisawright]

9 hours ago, rtritudr said:

Having watched both the Melbourne inquiry as well as the Ruby Princess Inquiry I must say that they are equally deplorable.

BTW, Melbourne hotels aren't the only ones to have leaked the virus into the community.  The Sydney Marriott Hotel managed to put two infected security guards into the community too.  It was only good luck that these two embers didn't create a wildfire.

Exactly this.   Security guards took the infection into the community in both NSW and Victoria - NSW got away with it, Victoria did not.   When the breach first happened, it was noticeable that none of the other state premiers were blaming Victoria because they all realised it could SO easily have been them.  Now, politics is starting to come into it.

[Quinkla]

10 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

NSW got away with it, Victoria did not.   When the breach first happened, it was noticeable that none of the other state premiers were blaming Victoria because they all realised it could SO easily have been them.  Now, politics is starting to come into it.

Yes. The Victorian approach has not really been any different to other states and territories - some of which have Liberal governments. The Dictator Dan Lib-bots conveniently ignore this. 

[Marisawright]

21 minutes ago, Quinkla said:

Yes. The Victorian approach has not really been any different to other states and territories - some of which have Liberal governments. The Dictator Dan Lib-bots conveniently ignore this. 

Agreed.  Everyone is entitled to question Victoria's decision to respond with a hard, long lockdown - but from what I've heard from security contacts in NSW and WA, hotel quarantine was just as 'botched" in those states as it was in Victoria at the time.  The other states just got away with it while Victoria didn't.

[Quinkla]

3 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Agreed.  Everyone is entitled to question Victoria's decision to respond with a hard, long lockdown - but from what I've heard from security contacts in NSW and WA, hotel quarantine was just as 'botched" in those states as it was in Victoria at the time.  The other states just got away with it while Victoria didn't.

And you've also got the personal responsibility of the returning travellers. There were quarantined people complaining about the draconian conditions, sharing advice on how to beat the system by claiming to be suicidal or by trashing the rooms - getting you outside for a bit. Frankly, that would have been a problem whether the security was provided by private firms, prison guards, police or soldiers. 

 

[Marisawright]

doublepost

Edited September 25, 2020 by Marisawright

[Marisawright]

17 hours ago, Dusty Plains said:

Good point. Earlier on Queenslanders were banned from returning home to Qld if they remained too long in NSW.  If NSW opened its border with Vic I don't think that the Victorian government is going to ban its citizens from entering NSW or South Australia as the case may be.  

One-sided closed borders are not new.  Victoria did not close its borders when the other states did, so it was possible for residents from other states to enter Victoria but not vice versa. 

[Quinkla]

So Jenny Mikakos has resigned. I hope history will record the immense work that she and her Department did in good faith to try to rescue Victoria from a really bad situation. 

[Dusty Plains]

32 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Agreed.  Everyone is entitled to question Victoria's decision to respond with a hard, long lockdown - but from what I've heard from security contacts in NSW and WA, hotel quarantine was just as 'botched" in those states as it was in Victoria at the time.  The other states just got away with it while Victoria didn't.

 

25 minutes ago, Quinkla said:

And you've also got the personal responsibility of the returning travellers. There were quarantined people complaining about the draconian conditions, sharing advice on how to beat the system by claiming to be suicidal or by trashing the rooms - getting you outside for a bit. Frankly, that would have been a problem whether the security was provided by private firms, prison guards, police or soldiers. 

 

All peripheral issues however, the elephant is still in the room.  NSW has a population of 8.2 million and Victoria has a population of just 6.5 million. Yet Covid-19 cases in Victoria are five times that of NSW. and Covid-19 related deaths are a staggering 14 times that of NSW.  Are you missing that particular point?  Do you really believe that:

"The other states just got away with it while Victoria didn't" (??)

I do not want to make an argument out the misery being endured by the people of Victoria.  I am sticking with the subject matter. namely Dan Andrews.

There is only one person is making mileage out of such misery and that is Dan Andrews. Andrews is copping an absolute pasting in the Sydney media this morning, some of which refer to him as a Control Freak who has never been in control, and a media tart.

He should resign ASAP.  All of this occurred on his watch and he has never taken responsibility.

 

[Toots]

6 minutes ago, Quinkla said:

So Jenny Mikakos has resigned. I hope history will record the immense work that she and her Department did in good faith to try to rescue Victoria from a really bad situation. 

Who will replace her?  

[Quinkla]

2 minutes ago, Dusty Plains said:

 

All peripheral issues however...

 

 

I am appreciative of your concern for what is happening in our State. 

Yes, it was bad luck. Almost all of Victoria's second wave was attributable to one family of four returned travellers. They infected a security guard, who happened to be a super-spreader by attending a massing religious festival attended by people from all over Melbourne. It was nothing to do with the Premier, it was just bad luck. 

And I hope things are going well for you in Sydney. Did you call for the resignation of your Government following the Ruby Princess episode - or did that not align with your predetermined political narrative?

[Quinkla]

4 minutes ago, Toots said:

Who will replace her?  

Don't know. She has also resigned from Parliament. She is a decent person who has done her best for the people of Victoria in a very difficult situation. Most of the politicians in Australia - with the exception of the Victorian Liberals - have done amazing things over the past six months.

[Paul1Perth]

6 hours ago, Quinkla said:

Don't know. She has also resigned from Parliament. She is a decent person who has done her best for the people of Victoria in a very difficult situation. Most of the politicians in Australia - with the exception of the Victorian Liberals - have done amazing things over the past six months.

It's tough in those positions of power but when things go wrong like this there should be accountability. They get good pay for being in those roles.

She's probably relieved she's out.

[Quinkla]

2 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

It's tough in those positions of power but when things go wrong like this there should be accountability.

Accountability for what, though? I am not convinced any other minister would have done things differently. I'm not convinced a Liberal government would have done anything differently. I know everyone is saying the ADF should have been involved, but I'm still not clear what the ADF did in other states. I think they organised transport (which was not the Victorian problem). I think other states used private security too. I think this is just a case of people feeling frustrated and angry that the pandemic is having such an impact and wanting a sacrificial lamb. It is not edifying to watch. 

[rtritudr]

12 hours ago, Toots said:

Who will replace her?  

Martin Foley.

[starlight7]

I don't like the way Daniel has treated Jenny Mikakos one little bit. It shows the true face of the man.  She is the fall guy paying the price for his mistakes. She was useless, I agree, but she was acting upon his direct orders and that is why she has not only resigned from her position but also from Parliament. She doesn't want to serve under a liar.

[Marisawright]

23 hours ago, Dusty Plains said:

 

All peripheral issues however, the elephant is still in the room.  NSW has a population of 8.2 million and Victoria has a population of just 6.5 million. Yet Covid-19 cases in Victoria are five times that of NSW. and Covid-19 related deaths are a staggering 14 times that of NSW.  Are you missing that particular point?  Do you really believe that:

"The other states just got away with it while Victoria didn't" (??)

Yes.  Victoria had ONE escape from hotel quarantine and 99% of ALL cases arose from that one escape.   

NSW had ONE escape from hotel quarantine but luckily, the infected guards didn't participate in knees-ups with their relatives.  

I agree that contact tracing in Victoria didn't work well because they chose a centralised model instead of a local one like NSW.  But let's face it, no one has ever done this before - it was a mistake to centralise and the system got overwhelmed.  It's unfortunate but I do believe the team though they were doing the right thing at the time.  Even government officials are human.

The deaths in aged care are squarely at the federal government's door because the vast majority of those deaths were in aged care homes which are under the federal government's jurisidiction.  The state government has very limited powers to interfere in those homes. 

Edited September 26, 2020 by Marisawright

[Dusty Plains]

9 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Yes.  Victoria had ONE escape from hotel quarantine and 99% of ALL cases arose from that one escape.   

NSW had ONE escape from hotel quarantine but luckily, the infected guards didn't participate in knees-ups with their relatives.  

I agree that contact tracing in Victoria didn't work well because they chose a centralised model instead of a local one like NSW.  But let's face it, no one has ever done this before - it was a mistake to centralise and the system got overwhelmed.  It's unfortunate but I do believe the team though they were doing the right thing at the time.  Even government officials are human.

The deaths in aged care are squarely at the federal government's door because the vast majority of those deaths were in aged care homes which are under the federal government's jurisidiction.  The state government has very limited powers to interfere in those homes. 

Actually, no.

Aged care in Victoria including the efficiency and effectiveness of the provision of aged care in each licensed facility is, in fact, regulated almost entirely by the  Victorian government. Link:

https://www2.health.vic.gov.au/ageing-and-aged-care/wellbeing-and-participation/healthy-ageing/healthy-ageing-program#:~:text=The department funds a small number of active,to improve health and wellbeing for older people.

The Commonwealth provides funding to the states through the Department of Health and Ageing together with subsidies to aged individuals seeking assistance, home assistance and even meals on wheels provided to house -bound seniors.  There are no "commonwealth" aged care staff in Victorian aged care facilities.

Once again its just another example throughout the posts here on PIO, of the many ways in which the states are reasonably similar, with the exception that there is a wholly dissimilar Victorian leadership when compared to other states.  The facts do not lie

Dan Andrews is a political animal, making use of the electronic media, every day to appear as a saviour to Victorians when he was solely the guy who got you where you are today. Seemingly, some posters on here are falling head over heels, for the myth that is Dan Andrews,

Edited September 27, 2020 by Dusty Plains