Is Dan Andrews doing the right thing?

[Paul1Perth]

14 hours ago, Dusty Plains said:

I'm not a Labor voter but I am also not one-eyed. We have had some great leaders who actually got things done. These include Bob Hawke as PM (Labor), and John Howard as PM (Liberal). John Howard stood up in front of numerous hostile crowds of gun owners across the country, telling them that they needed to hand in their guns. I admired both. 

 

When John Howard got in I thought he wouldn't last long. Thought he was out of his depth. Really got to like the guy and he got enormous respect internationally. 

Good PM. I've thought for ages that Scott Morrison was the man for PM, as the liberals cycled through some bad ones. 

Unless Labor change their leader quickly, if they can find someone with a bit of charisma, maybe younger would help, they will be on the outer for some while.

[Quinkla]

3 minutes ago, Paul1Perth said:

History tells us that Churchill was a great leader. I watched 3 films about his life a couple of years back and,  depending on which one you watched he was a great leader in one to a bumbling drunken idiot in another who depended on his wife for all the decisions.

What do you believe?

Leaders lead teams. Their quality as leaders depends so much on the quality of the teams they lead. Churchill was a drunken buffoon, but he did inspire great people in his team. 

 

[Paul1Perth]

Just now, Quinkla said:

Leaders lead teams. Their quality as leaders depends so much on the quality of the teams they lead. Churchill was a drunken buffoon, but he did inspire great people in his team. 

 

Hope you didn't form your opinion on that one film.

[Quinkla]

Just now, Paul1Perth said:

Hope you didn't form your opinion on that one film.

I thought it was common knowledge. 

[Paul1Perth]

14 hours ago, Quinkla said:

This, more than anything, shows you don't actually know anything about Victorian politics. Ted Baillieu (Liberal Premier from 2010-2012) was known as Do Nothing Ted. The Libs had not expected to win the 2010 election and seemed paralysed when they got in. 

Daniel Andrews got elected in 2014 and was on a mission to do things. The criticisms from the Opposition were that he was doing too much, spending too much especially on level crossing removal and major infrastructure projects. He was far from a media tart - signing up to all sorts of campaigns that were unpopular (including marriage equality, euthanasia, medicinal cannabis, injecting rooms, safe schools, tearing up the East-West contract). In the 2018 election, the Liberals led out on a crime agenda - particularly African gangs. This did not resonate with people because (a) crime had actually fallen and (b) their leader was caught having a fundraising dinner at The Lobster Cave with Tony Madafferi, an actual crime godfather who is alleged to have ordered the hit on Mario Condello (see Underbelly Series 1).

The fact that you think the Liberals will sort the state out, despite not knowing what their policies are, pr what previous election campaigns have been fought on suggests you are just trolling.

Marriage equality, medical cannabis were popular. Very popular in Victoria, maybe not so much in other states. Safe schools is nuts but he's playing to a captive audience.

[Paul1Perth]

27 minutes ago, Quinkla said:

... which is not the first place I would go for impartial reporting.

But self-evidently the quarantine programme failed to meet its objective. The question is whether that was down to foreseeable problems - in which case you might want heads to roll - or whether it was just bad luck. 

I am interested to note that:

• Victoria was doing heavy lifting in quarantining returned travellers that other states/territories didn't want to deal with
• nobody has called for heads to roll following the Ruby Princess infections, even though that clearly was the result of poor decision making
• the quarantine programme in NSW also used private security guards, some of whom became infected and spread it in the community
• the Prime Minister is suggesting that asking returned travellers to self-isolate at home might be the way forward because it seemed to work in February/March - which kinda goes against the Vic Libs idea that we needed soldiers to keep returned travellers in quarantine

It would be really great if the Vic Libs could set aside party politics and pull together in this crisis, which is what oppositions seems to have done at both a federal and state level everywhere else. But I guess the real issue is that the Vic Libs are struggling to oppose a successful Premier whose government has achieved more than any Victorian government for decades, and they don't think they can afford to miss a moment to undermine him through adopting a bipartisan approach. 

I think there were plenty of people wanting heads to roll with the Ruby Princess debacle. (what a way to say someone gets the sack, usually with a big payoff to keep quite) 

[Paul1Perth]

9 minutes ago, Quinkla said:

I thought it was common knowledge. 

Fake news

[starlight7]

Strange that the Labour opposition Federally is absolutely hopeless but the Liberal opposition in the State of Victoria is equally hopeless. Neither party have any policies, they are just negative.  I think Scomo is ok, personally.  Certainly the best we've got just now and I dread to think of Albo leading anyone anywhere. 

[LOLZ]

On 11/09/2020 at 04:11, HappyHeart said:

Firstly, COVID-19 is not influenza. We know relatively little about it but we do know that's it's MUCH MORE CONTAGIOUS AND DEADLY than flu. 

We know we have a flu vaccine and that by far the vast majority of over 65s and at risk groups get vaccinated. Yet still people die. 

People tend to die 'with' disease not 'of' disease. People with cancer, with chronic health conditions, the young, the elderly all live with varying degrees of immunosuppression. That means infection is a potentially fatal event. 

I reject this claim that some of us should be allowed to take our chances and vulnerable people should take precautions. That strategy condemns large numbers to a long life of isolation and misery due to the selfishness of others. 

The strategy should be elimination till a vaccine is found. We dont allow kids into schools and dsycare without up to date vaccinations. Why people are getting their knickers in a knot about this particular vaccine baffles me. I for one am prepared to live in this bubble till a vaccine is found...that may be a few years..Who knows. If local cases spike I accept lockdown as the quickest way to get back to NORMAL. 

I don't accept any number of deaths as collateral damage. Every one is someone's beloved person. I think the entire world needs a rethink about society and what we value most. Capitalism requires sacrificial lambs to keep the world turning.  We can't serve 2 masters. 

Ivory tower springs to mind.

And BTW, we will never get back to normal even with a vaccine.

[Paul1Perth]

14 hours ago, LOLZ said:

Ivory tower springs to mind.

And BTW, we will never get back to normal even with a vaccine.

We have normal in WA. Been like it for months now. No masks, no distancing, everything open, no number limits, summers coming too, not long before the beaches get busy.

It is possible and if Victorias numbers keep falling to the state where they know there's no community transmission you can have a normal summer. Rather than people getting arrested down the beach for not following rules.

[Drumbeat]

48 minutes ago, Paul1Perth said:

We have normal in WA. Been like it for months now. No masks, no distancing, everything open, no number limits, summers coming too, not long before the beaches get busy.

It is possible and if Victorias numbers keep falling to the state where they know there's no community transmission you can have a normal summer. Rather than people getting arrested down the beach for not following rules.

I don't consider not being able to travel to to other states for a holiday normal and my husband not working for six months is distinctly abnormal!

Edited October 5, 2020 by Drumbeat

[Quinkla]

1 hour ago, Drumbeat said:

I don't consider not being able to travel to to other states for a holiday normal and my husband not working for six months is distinctly abnormal!

But it sounds like normal within WA. That sounds pretty attractive right now if you're sitting where I am and I cannot even travel into the next suburb to go to the shops, or sit in the same room as my family. 

Victoria couldn't squish the virus last time and I have to say things don't look great right now either. A single family connected with the Butchers in Chadstone Shopping Centre decided to ignore the restrictions, met up as a group from across Melbourne, and now they are passing the virus into their own communities. Twenty four active cases so far across multiple suburbs and rising. One active case and a super spreading event has the capability to take us all down - and that's nothing to do with Daniel Andrews. 

[Drumbeat]

2 hours ago, Quinkla said:

But it sounds like normal within WA. That sounds pretty attractive right now if you're sitting where I am and I cannot even travel into the next suburb to go to the shops, or sit in the same room as my family. 

Victoria couldn't squish the virus last time and I have to say things don't look great right now either. A single family connected with the Butchers in Chadstone Shopping Centre decided to ignore the restrictions, met up as a group from across Melbourne, and now they are passing the virus into their own communities. Twenty four active cases so far across multiple suburbs and rising. One active case and a super spreading event has the capability to take us all down - and that's nothing to do with Daniel Andrews. 

We are very fortunate compared to other States and countries but I'm sure the hundreds of people who lost their jobs and can't pay their bills do not describe it as 'normal'

[Quinkla]

35 minutes ago, Drumbeat said:

We are very fortunate compared to other States and countries but I'm sure the hundreds of people who lost their jobs and can't pay their bills do not describe it as 'normal'

I did not mean to be insensitive towards the many people who are doing it hard. I do think, though, that unless you live in Melbourne or Mitchell Shire it would be difficult to imagine just what our life is like right now. It is not all bad - there are upsides of spending more time at home, walking our local streets, visiting parks, etc. - but it is deeply weird and the uncertainty about how long it will last is very unsettling. Many of us are dreading a return to CBD working. 

[Paul1Perth]

5 hours ago, Drumbeat said:

I don't consider not being able to travel to to other states for a holiday normal and my husband not working for six months is distinctly abnormal!

Was your hubby on jobkeeper? We know a few people who've been on it. Most have been better off than working.

Not travelling anywhere is a small price to pay for normality. 

[Jon the Hat]

Saw an article earlier about the fact that a single person slipping through and WA could be like Melbourne in a week or so.  It's a fair point, and the problem with the isolation approach - you are only as good as your isolation!

[Drumbeat]

2 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

Was your hubby on jobkeeper? We know a few people who've been on it. Most have been better off than working.

Not travelling anywhere is a small price to pay for normality. 

No he wasn't on Jobkeeper, you'd have to be on a pretty low wage to be better off with it.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Drumbeat

[MacGyver]

6 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Saw an article earlier about the fact that a single person slipping through and WA could be like Melbourne in a week or so.  It's a fair point, and the problem with the isolation approach - you are only as good as your isolation!

I think this is inevitable when reading about so many people escaping hotel quarantine etc and ending up in court. When it happens, a New Zealand approach would be my preference, go hard and go early for a short period of restrictions to eradicate it again.

I was amazed Melbourne didn’t lockdown when numbers were hitting 20-30 per day never mind 700 and can’t imagine the WA state government would let it go that far before taking action given previous decision making.

[Paul1Perth]

15 hours ago, Drumbeat said:

No he wasn't on Jobkeeper, you'd have to be on a pretty low wage to be better off with it.

Yep. The people we know are swim teachers, personal trainers and cafe workers. All of them better off on job keeper. 

My son works in a cafe but has autism so gets an allowance from the government. If he had gone for job keeper, which would have been more than work or his allowance, he would have had to give his allowance up. To get back on it is a pain, so he decided he wouldn't take jobkeeper. When the cafe opened again he couldn't wait to get back to work, the others on jobkeeper wouldn't go back, they only came back when jobkeeper halved. Meant he got more hours though.

[Rossmoyne]

On 01/10/2020 at 07:30, Paul1Perth said:

When John Howard got in I thought he wouldn't last long. Thought he was out of his depth. Really got to like the guy and he got enormous respect internationally. 

Good PM. I've thought for ages that Scott Morrison was the man for PM, as the liberals cycled through some bad ones. 

Unless Labor change their leader quickly, if they can find someone with a bit of charisma, maybe younger would help, they will be on the outer for some while.

Agree on everything you said.

[Dusty Plains]

On 30/09/2020 at 18:30, Dusty Plains said:

I'm not a Labor voter but I am also not one-eyed. We have had some great leaders who actually got things done. These include Bob Hawke as PM (Labor), and John Howard as PM (Liberal). John Howard stood up in front of numerous hostile crowds of gun owners across the country, telling them that they needed to hand in their guns. I admired both. 

 

Jim Jeffries a bogan at large in the US lectures the audience on gun control. Bad language but very funny

 

[rtritudr]

Three new local cases in Sydney.  Pretty soon Victoria may have to close its border with NSW or risk reimporting cases.

[Paul1Perth]

35 minutes ago, rtritudr said:

Three new local cases in Sydney.  Pretty soon Victoria may have to close its border with NSW or risk reimporting cases.

If they know about them and have them in quarantine it's not really a problem.

[rtritudr]

1 hour ago, Paul1Perth said:

If they know about them and have them in quarantine it's not really a problem.

These aren't quarantine cases.  These are community transmissions with no known source, spread over a fairly large area: Camden, Wollondilly and Parramatta.

[starlight7]

Old Jeffy did have 'personality' though- and he got us the Grand Prix off Adelaide. Had a chat to him one night at the Opera and away from politics he was quite pleasant. Wouldn't have voted for him at the time as I was working in welfare.