Info on points system and selection

[Maussie]

Wondering if anyone could clarify how the points system works for EOI. 

Does the points score trump the intended job or will the job have a greater bearing on whether you are invited to apply, that's for 189, 190 and 491. 

e.g. if a state requires let's say butchers but the cohort of butchers have lower points than the bakers or candlestick makers, could the butchers still be invited to apply as those roles require filling and the state may have enough members of the other professions. 

I ask as I have a very low score (50) for a 189 and was wondering if it was worth trying to up it with a formal English test. Think I could potentially get 85 for a 491. Regardless I should be able to get an employer sponsored visa but thought I'd have more freedom with work decisions if I got there off my own back. 

Thanks in advance. 

[ali]

From what I've read on the forums, 50 points is very low - a lot invites are for those with points in the 90"s

[Marisawright]

Yes, the states

3 hours ago, Maussie said:

if a state requires let's say butchers but the cohort of butchers have lower points than the bakers or candlestick makers, could the butchers still be invited to apply as those roles require filling and the state may have enough members of the other professions. 

Yes, that is how it works.  However, you can't take any comfort from that, because there are so many applications, it's highly competitive.  If you're a butcher and you submit an application with a low score, they won't rush to hire you just because you're the only applicant left - they just wait a week or two, and more high-scoring applicants will come in, and they'll pick them instead. Thus low scorers are likely to languish in the queue for a long time and may never get picked. 

Take a look at this table for the 189 visa.  Notice that even the lowest occupation requires at least 90 points to stand any chance whatsoever:

https://www.iscah.com/will-get-189-invitation-january-2020-estimates/

 

 

Edited September 5, 2020 by Marisawright

[paulhand]

15 hours ago, Maussie said:

ask as I have a very low score (50) for a 189 and was wondering if it was worth trying to up it with a formal English test. Think I could potentially get 85 for a 491. Regardless I should be able to get an employer sponsored visa but thought I'd have more freedom with work decisions if I got there off my own back. 

 

The required minimum points score for any non-employer-sponsored skilled visa Is 65. State nomination is also a competitive business and some states have very short lists. 

[Maussie]

Thanks for the replies folks, all very informative. 

Well aware that's points are dismally low but thankfully have other options via employer sponsorship which should be straightforward enough. Did go over  for a few months on a 457 in 2017. Age is creeping ever closer to having no options at all as currently 42 and a half. Will make a decision in the next few months. 

Can I pick collective brains and ask if transitioning from PR to citizenship has any age limit?  I saw the Miriam Margolyes program on the BBC recently and she was conferred citizenship only a few years ago so hopefully there isn't but she's obviously a celebrity.

I may as well try to improve the English language ability to up the 491 score from 65 to 85 and cross fingers and toes. I understand it can be challenging even if a native speaker. Bit odd that the applicant gets zero points regardless of level of education but my wife gets an automatic 5 points for having a passport from an English speaking country and assuming she is competent. Still 5 points is better than none.

[paulhand]

2 hours ago, Maussie said:

ask if transitioning from PR to citizenship has any age limit?

There is no age limit for citizenship

2 hours ago, Maussie said:

Bit odd that the applicant gets zero points regardless of level of education but my wife gets an automatic 5 points for having a passport from an English speaking country

These are testing different things. 

[Southlander]

From my knowledge PR has an age limit requirement of being under 45 years old to be granted it. PR to citizenship has no time limitations as such. So doing a 491 for 4/5 years at 42 will be too late to apply for pr. Employment sponsored 482 will probably also chip away at the age requirement to gain PR should you use it. So basically you have to have PR before you turn 45. If possible you should go straight for the 190 visa. You can still get sponsored with 65 points, but may be tight. Remember once on 491 you cannot go to PR quicker and need to do the full 5 years to get 191. 482 you can put in a 190 application whilst on it. Either way looking tight.

 

[paulhand]

18 minutes ago, Southlander said:

So doing a 491 for 4/5 years at 42 will be too late to apply for pr.

This is incorrect. 
 

19 minutes ago, Southlander said:

Remember once on 491 you cannot go to PR quicker and need to do the full 5 years to get 191.

So is this. 

[KangaKit]

The 191 I believe doesn't have the age limit..just the preceding 491.

[KangaKit]

But someone please correct me if wrong!

[Southlander]

That's why you need a MARA! Thanks for clarifying Paul. 

For the avoidance of doubt can you apply for a 190 whilst on a 491? (I thought the old 489 you could do this but not the new 491...)

Also at 42.5 years old how easy is it to get PR via 491 or employement sponsored visa? (Considering no application is submitted yet) 

Lastly there is no requirement to obtain PR by the age of 45? (... transitioning from 482 or 491)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Southlander]

I have looked into it again, you have 5 years to fulfil your 3 years requirement (53k, regional etc) to apply for pr and cannot see an age requirement to transition to the 191, just have to be under 45 for the 491. Mind BLOWN, and my apologies! I thought skilled work visa to pr was set in stone for being under 45 to apply.

Also you cannot apply for a different skilled pr visa whilst on a 491, unlike the 489 where you could apply for a different class visa, which is what I was implying. But 3 years on 491, I now note. 

All the best. 

[Raul Senise]

On 06/09/2020 at 05:59, Maussie said:

Wondering if anyone could clarify how the points system works for EOI. 

Does the points score trump the intended job or will the job have a greater bearing on whether you are invited to apply, that's for 189, 190 and 491. 

e.g. if a state requires let's say butchers but the cohort of butchers have lower points than the bakers or candlestick makers, could the butchers still be invited to apply as those roles require filling and the state may have enough members of the other professions. 

I ask as I have a very low score (50) for a 189 and was wondering if it was worth trying to up it with a formal English test. Think I could potentially get 85 for a 491. Regardless I should be able to get an employer sponsored visa but thought I'd have more freedom with work decisions if I got there off my own back. 

Thanks in advance. 

For the 189 a job offer is irrelevant. It is based on points, date of EOI and in some cases occupation, as some occupations have a pro rata system requiring higher points.

For the 190 it depends on the particular State as they each have their own requirements and selection methods, which they can change as they please.

[Maussie]

Came back to say I did the PTE Academic at the beginning of this month and uploaded the results. Got the 20 points to boost the score to 70 for a 189.

Have just checked my junk mail and been invited to apply for a 189!  

My dates were:

4/9/20 EOI submitted

2/10/20 EOI amended

21/10/20 Invitation received

 

To pick brains again if I may...the processing times are:

75% of applications: 9 months

90% of applications: 19 months

Would the differences in timescale be due to gathering paperwork and clearing medicals which vary for individuals, or is there a monthly overall limit that once reached means waiting for the next batch to be reviewed? Also If I apply and the time limit is exceeded through no response (on their part) would that mean no refund?  There's six of us so it's a fair amount of money. 

Haven't clicked on the Apply button yet as it's past midnight but I've logged in to my skillselect account to confirm it was there!

[paulhand]

7 hours ago, Maussie said:

Came back to say I did the PTE Academic at the beginning of this month and uploaded the results. Got the 20 points to boost the score to 70 for a 189.

 Have just checked my junk mail and been invited to apply for a 189!  

My dates were:

4/9/20 EOI submitted

2/10/20 EOI amended

21/10/20 Invitation received

Congratulations- what occupation are you?

7 hours ago, Maussie said:

Would the differences in timescale be due to gathering paperwork and clearing medicals which vary for individuals, or is there a monthly overall limit that once reached means waiting for the next batch to be reviewed? 

No - there is already a long queue and they don’t work through it in date order. There is an annual target. At the moment, generally, onshore applications are being prioritised. 
 

7 hours ago, Maussie said:

Also If I apply and the time limit is exceeded through no response (on their part) would that mean no refund?  There's six of us so it's a fair amount of money. 

It’s not a ‘guideline’, it’s a backward looking statistic that gives an indication of how long processing is taking. No refunds if it takes longer. 

[Maussie]

2 hours ago, paulhand said:

Congratulations- what occupation are you?

Thank you. ANZSCO 253917

2 hours ago, paulhand said:

No - there is already a long queue and they don’t work through it in date order. There is an annual target. At the moment, generally, onshore applications are being prioritised. 

 

It’s not a ‘guideline’, it’s a backward looking statistic that gives an indication of how long processing is taking. No refunds if it takes longer. 

Thanks.  Will have to give it some serious thought about whether to apply for 189 or aim for employer sponsored. 

[Pooja Negi]

19 hours ago, Maussie said:

Thanks.  Will have to give it some serious thought about whether to apply for 189 or aim for employer sponsored. 

Why would you want to apply for employer sponsored visa when you have already got a 189 invite? You do realize that 189 is a PR visa and will have other government benefits (including childcare) attached with it once granted. I agree the processing time for 189/190 have skyrocketed post covid but it will come sooner or later unless one has supplied forge documents or have a criminal record. There will definitely not be a refund if its refused/rejected/takes a long time to grant. But I dont see any point not accepting this invite as long as you have a clear record and have all the evidence for the points you claimed in your EOI. You are one lucky person who received an invite for 189 at 70 points which is very rare seeing there are so many waiting without an invite at 90+ points for so many months.

Wish you luck!

[Pooja Negi]

On 21/10/2020 at 05:14, Maussie said:

Have just checked my junk mail and been invited to apply for a 189!  

My dates were:

4/9/20 EOI submitted

2/10/20 EOI amended

21/10/20 Invitation received

Also (jut out of curiosity), are you onshore or offshore?

[Maussie]

4 hours ago, Pooja Negi said:

Why would you want to apply for employer sponsored visa when you have already got a 189 invite? You do realize that 189 is a PR visa and will have other government benefits (including childcare) attached with it once granted. I agree the processing time for 189/190 have skyrocketed post covid but it will come sooner or later unless one has supplied forge documents or have a criminal record. There will definitely not be a refund if its refused/rejected/takes a long time to grant. But I dont see any point not accepting this invite as long as you have a clear record and have all the evidence for the points you claimed in your EOI. You are one lucky person who received an invite for 189 at 70 points which is very rare seeing there are so many waiting without an invite at 90+ points for so many months.

Wish you luck!

Thanks. I was thinking the employer sponsored 186 PR visa. I have no concerns regarding supplying evidence, other than the legwork, it was more weighing up the cost and uncertainty of going for the 189 versus getting a company to sponsor it, though the downside is it may affect perceived working conditions as at the mercy of an employer. Perhaps I'm overthinking it. 

 

4 hours ago, Pooja Negi said:

Also (jut out of curiosity), are you onshore or offshore?

Offshore. 

[Marisawright]

38 minutes ago, Maussie said:

Thanks. I was thinking the employer sponsored 186 PR visa. I have no concerns regarding supplying evidence, other than the legwork, it was more weighing up the cost and uncertainty of going for the 189 versus getting a company to sponsor it, though the downside is it may affect perceived working conditions as at the mercy of an employer. Perhaps I'm overthinking it

Very difficult to get a 186 direct entry visa as the process is so slow and few employers are willing to wait that long for an employee to start work 

[DrDougster]

16 hours ago, Maussie said:

Thanks. I was thinking the employer sponsored 186 PR visa. I have no concerns regarding supplying evidence, other than the legwork, it was more weighing up the cost and uncertainty of going for the 189 versus getting a company to sponsor it, though the downside is it may affect perceived working conditions as at the mercy of an employer. Perhaps I'm overthinking it. 

 

Offshore. 

I'd go for the 189 but do bear in mind that you'll be at the mercy of your employer to a certain extent for the first year while you get your college fellowship over in Australia. This would allow you to move after a year if there is an issue with work or where you initially live. There is a quite a bit of outlay but the increased salary in Australia gets on top of it very quickly and much of the expense is tax deductible in Aus where it wouldn't be in UK. You'll maybe get sponsorship for a 186 from a hospital more in need, maybe Darwin (where you'll also get some very interesting work!) but less likely in a big service in a larger city.

You won't regret moving to Australia if you're used to working as a consultant in the NHS... 

[Maussie]

7 hours ago, DrDougster said:

I'd go for the 189 but do bear in mind that you'll be at the mercy of your employer to a certain extent for the first year while you get your college fellowship over in Australia. This would allow you to move after a year if there is an issue with work or where you initially live. There is a quite a bit of outlay but the increased salary in Australia gets on top of it very quickly and much of the expense is tax deductible in Aus where it wouldn't be in UK. You'll maybe get sponsorship for a 186 from a hospital more in need, maybe Darwin (where you'll also get some very interesting work!) but less likely in a big service in a larger city.

You won't regret moving to Australia if you're used to working as a consultant in the NHS... 

Thanks. Am also thinking to just go for the 189 and forget about it until something lands in the inbox. Family dynamics are a bit tricky in that a couple of older kids have just started uni (from home due to covid) and the wife is having cold feet. Have two younger ones and one is well settled in a good school a couple of years before GCSEs are due. The youngest would be sitting her 11+ in a couple of years too. My intention would be to aim for citizenship but not necessarily emigrate for good as I envisage living in both the UK and Australia during my crumbly years. There's a fair chance I end up working in Oz on my own for a few years with family regularly coming over from the UK, but I don't know how that would affect their status. 

Lucky enough to have the fellowship - did mean having to go from the UK for exams...more than once but got there in the end, and have AHPRA specialist registration used for telerad (isn't technology wonderful!).  Interestingly I did visit Darwin for an AoN position in 2017 but that fell through.  I thought it was nice enough and didn't mind the humidity. 

 

Question for floor...let's say I am successful with a 189 for the six of us but not all of us come over.  Is there a time limit for the non-main applicants to enter for PR?  I understand there are residency requirements when transitioning from PR to citizenship, but would they forgo their privileges if they didn't take them up within a set time period?  

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Maussie said:

. Family dynamics are a bit tricky in that a couple of older kids have just started uni (from home due to covid) and the wife is having cold feet. ....My intention would be to aim for citizenship but not necessarily emigrate for good as I envisage living in both the UK and Australia during my crumbly years. 

Question for floor...let's say I am successful with a 189 for the six of us but not all of us come over.  Is there a time limit for the non-main applicants to enter for PR?  I understand there are residency requirements when transitioning from PR to citizenship, but would they forgo their privileges if they didn't take them up within a set time period?  

I'd say, do not even consider migrating if your partner is not 100% as keen as you are.  A reluctant partner is a recipe for failure (or a broken marriage!).

When you get the visa, there will be a date by which you must all activate your visas (i.e. enter Australia).  If any of you is not ready to make the permanent move, that can just be a quick visit.  After you've done that, you'll each have about 5 years to make the permanent move (you'll be told the deadline).  If one of you doesn't make the permanent move within the 5 years, their PR lapses.  However even then, if they have strong ties to Australia (like having close family resident here), they can apply for a RRV (resident return visa) which will give them another year to make the move. 

[Maussie]

24 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

I'd say, do not even consider migrating if your partner is not 100% as keen as you are.  A reluctant partner is a recipe for failure (or a broken marriage!).

When you get the visa, there will be a date by which you must all activate your visas (i.e. enter Australia).  If any of you is not ready to make the permanent move, that can just be a quick visit.  After you've done that, you'll each have about 5 years to make the permanent move (you'll be told the deadline).  If one of you doesn't make the permanent move within the 5 years, their PR lapses.  However even then, if they have strong ties to Australia (like having close family resident here), they can apply for a RRV (resident return visa) which will give them another year to make the move. 

That's very useful indeed, thank you Marisawright. Going over to activate the visas is not an issue and the 5 year or so cushion would be ideal. 

[DrDougster]

I'd be less reluctant about giving things a try with a reluctant other half. We were pretty unsure and travelled fairly light when we came out and now the thought of moving back to UK is as far from our minds as it is in reality. Hoick that nipper out of school and get her over here in a swim team!

We liked Darwin too and wouldn't write off returning in, as you say, crumblier times.