Visa 804 aged parent visa

[ramot]

9 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

I think the poster is the parent and onshore in Australia at the moment. 

I think you are right, bit confusing about canceling flights, and also considering on shore parent visas. Hope their visas allow an on shore application, and  it works out for them. 

 

[Ferrets]

59 minutes ago, Barnyrubble said:

Hi and thank you. How long from submission of application did it take for your parents to receive the bridging visa?  And are they taxed in both uk and Australia do you know?

We are now considering the 864 in the hope that paying the extraonies would give us more security and less aggravation.  But if the same applies that Marisa has quoted regatding always being a foreign resident and being charged those land tax and surcharge fees it is not possible.

The visa agent says if the bridging visa is open ended and not contain a  end date then we are should (?) be temporary and not foreign if we live here all year. That in itself is a worry that he cannot confirm anything.

We have cancelled our flights 4 or 5 times working about the flight and the numbers in the uk.  

Taxation is unique to circumstances and couldn't comment.

Best advice would be to align strategies with a MARA agent, @Alan Collett would be my first port of call for parent/tax but all of the agents who regularly post here would be equally recommended.

[Ferrets]

1 hour ago, Barnyrubble said:

Hi and thank you. How long from submission of application did it take for your parents to receive the bridging visa?  And are they taxed in both uk and Australia do you know?

We are now considering the 864 in the hope that paying the extraonies would give us more security and less aggravation.  But if the same applies that Marisa has quoted regatding always being a foreign resident and being charged those land tax and surcharge fees it is not possible.

The visa agent says if the bridging visa is open ended and not contain a  end date then we are should (?) be temporary and not foreign if we live here all year. That in itself is a worry that he cannot confirm anything.

We have cancelled our flights 4 or 5 times working about the flight and the numbers in the uk.  

As a question, land tax is only applicable as temporary resident of an onshore property.  Are you planning to stay permanently or to move 6 months / 6 months between Aus and UK?

[Barnyrubble]

Yes we are in Australia  but all this confusion is making us wonder if we could actually afford to live here.  Hence the flight cancellations. Temporary/foreign/permanent??  All too much some days.  

[Barnyrubble]

1 minute ago, Ferrets said:

As a question, land tax is only applicable as temporary resident of an onshore property.  Are you planning to stay permanently or to move 6 months / 6 months between Aus and UK?

Was planning to live here permanently.  Are you saying  people on 804 or 864 are temporary but still charged land tax and surcharge fees.

[Barnyrubble]

1 minute ago, Barnyrubble said:

Was planning to live here permanently.  Are you saying  people on 804 or 864 are temporary but still charged land tax and surcharge fees.

Are your parents treated as temporary and do they pay those annual charges?

[Ferrets]

3 minutes ago, Barnyrubble said:

Are your parents treated as temporary and do they pay those annual charges?

If you live in the house 365 my understanding is that there is no annual charge.  My parents have no knowledge of this charge.

[Barnyrubble]

Just now, Ferrets said:

If you live in the house 365 my understanding is that there is no annual charge.  My parents have no knowledge of this charge.

So they are on 804 but its working out to be expensive.  No senior discount card? No travel discount? Have to have private medical?  Do you know of any other expenses because of their choice of visa? 

[Ferrets]

29 minutes ago, Barnyrubble said:

So they are on 804 but its working out to be expensive.  No senior discount card? No travel discount? Have to have private medical?  Do you know of any other expenses because of their choice of visa? 

Not on an 804, but same bridging conditions.

Their expenses are significant due to private medical, and frankly senior discount / travel discount are so irrelevant that we have not discussed.

Is it worth it? I am sat here at my parent's with all the grandkids and they are clear the benefits outweigh the costs.  But this also dependent on your own circumstances.

Personal view? If you are here I would not be leaving.

[ramot]

35 minutes ago, Barnyrubble said:

So they are on 804 but its working out to be expensive.  No senior discount card? No travel discount? Have to have private medical?  Do you know of any other expenses because of their choice of visa? 

The couple I know have been on a bridging visa for the 804 since 2011. I was amazed when they told me when I met them  in December that they had had all sorts of treatment with Medicare on UK reciprocal. including A hip replacement and eye surgery. They assured me it had cost them nothing through the public system, and they didn’t have health insurance. I can’t vouch for this but that’s what they told me. Hope they weren’t breaking any rules? 

Once your visa for either 804 or 864 is issued, you are not on a bridging visa any more and are permanent residents.i think there is  2 year wait as a PR for a seniors card, don’t know about travel discount, private health as a PR is advised but not obligatory, it’s a personal choice.

It’s up to you to apply for the 804 with a long wait or pay more for an 864 which will be sooner, weigh it all up and good luck with your decision. I do wonder because of this awful pandemic situation if already being in Australia it might make sense to apply onshore, and stay here rather than go back to UK and then change your mind and wish you had stayed and applied onshore, but have to then wait it out in UK for years.

Edited August 1, 2020 by ramot

[Barnyrubble]

As i understand it the grant of the 804 is up to 30 years and the 864 about 5 years so until then we would be bridging. The medical isn't too much of an issue as its reciprocal. It's all the land tax and surcharges in addition to extra stamp duty that is crippling.

[Ferrets]

2 minutes ago, Barnyrubble said:

As i understand it the grant of the 804 is up to 30 years and the 864 about 5 years so until then we would be bridging. The medical isn't too much of an issue as its reciprocal. It's all the land tax and surcharges in addition to extra stamp duty that is crippling.

Stop it.  Land tax is irrelevant if you are migrating (staying), and no cost.

Your understanding of the 804/864 seems off, you need a medical examination before grant of visa rights.  

Medical costs on the reciprocal agreement with the UK are covered in part, but hey I wouldn't want have that cover only.

You need to consult an agent for strategy and your own peace of mind.

[ramot]

2 minutes ago, Ferrets said:

Stop it.  Land tax is irrelevant if you are migrating (staying), and no cost.

Your understanding of the 804/864 seems off, you need a medical examination before grant of visa rights.  

Medical costs on the reciprocal agreement with the UK are covered in part, but hey I wouldn't want have that cover only.

You need to consult an agent for strategy and your own peace of mind.

I agree consult a migration agent who is Mara registered to clarify some of your concerns, several post on PIO and all have good reputations, but the conditions of house buying might be beyond their remit as they are migration agents not experts on house buying. We posters can only help with the best of intentions.

 

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Barnyrubble said:

Was planning to live here permanently.  Are you saying  people on 804 or 864 are temporary but still charged land tax and surcharge fees.

Here are the facts:

While you are on a bridging visa, you are temporary.  You will definitely be treated as a foreign investor when purchasing your property, there is no doubt about that.  That means you need to apply to FIRB (and pay the application fee), and then pay extra stamp duty (which varies from state to state, but the result is that you'll pay about three times as much stamp duty as a local).

As for land tax - I've been on these forums for some years and have never heard about land tax issues, so perhaps (since you are residing in the home), you don't have to pay.  However if I study the rules, in theory you should have to pay.  As others have said, you need expert advice but it would be a tax expert not a migration agent.  Since that seems to be your sticking point, I suggest seeking that advice. 

Once you get your visa - either 864 or 804 - you are permanent. But as you note, you may be dead by the time the 804 comes through, so probably irrelevant. 

Are you aware your UK state pension will be frozen forever at the rate it is today?  No increases, ever.  You can claim the higher rate temporarily while you're back in the UK on holiday - but you will have to apply for permission every time you want to leave Australia, as your bridging visa does not allow you to leave the country. 

[Barnyrubble]

We are in contact with an Australian  Mira agent but they are visa agents and do not have knowledge of property laws.  

[Barnyrubble]

Thank you Marisa

[Ferrets]

24 minutes ago, Barnyrubble said:

We are in contact with an Australian  Mira agent but they are visa agents and do not have knowledge of property laws.  

Contact does not mean active support.

You are right about separation of visa and property expertise, hence the nudge to @Alan Collett who deals in parent and tax issues.  

You need a frank assessment of your own circumstances; if you will be reliant on UK pension it will be hard, and realistically you need to be self funded in retirement unless you are dual-living (which is a different can of worms)

However you proceed it must be hard to make a choice in flux during these times, and hope it works out well.

Edited August 1, 2020 by Ferrets

[Marisawright]

2 hours ago, Ferrets said:

You are right about separation of visa and property expertise, hence the nudge to @Alan Collett who deals in parent and tax issues.  

You need a frank assessment of your own circumstances; if you will be reliant on UK pension it will be hard, and realistically you need to be self funded in retirement unless you are dual-living (which is a different can of worms)

Exactly right.  It's not a case of whether it's worth it - it's whether they can afford it.     We may criticise the British welfare state, but it is an important safety net in old age.  To uproot yourself and move to a country where you will get no support at all, you need to be sure that you have enough savings and private pension to last.

[Barnyrubble]

Thank you.  It is so hard it is keeping us awake plus we would have the added stress of selling our uk home from here.  Anyone know of anyone ever having done that?

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Barnyrubble said:

Thank you.  It is so hard it is keeping us awake plus we would have the added stress of selling our uk home from here.  Anyone know of anyone ever having done that?

We've had several members who had to leave the UK before their sale completed.  These days with so much online, and email signatures accepted in a court of law, it's not hard to manage.  

The biggest issue would be packing up your whole house.   If you think about how you normally prepare for a move, you do get things ready for the removalists, get rid of clutter, throw away food etc.   If you are unable to return, you'll have to find a company who's able to go into the house "as is" and make sense of it.   Such companies do exist, I'm sure, but it may take a little more research. And thinking about how you've left your house, do you trust strangers to do the job?

To get the best price for the home, you would normally want to do some minor maintenance tasks, get the garden looking good etc.  Again, there are companies who can do this, so you'll need to decide whether to spend money on that in hopes of getting a better price, or just leave the house as it stands and accept a slightly lower figure. 

In short, it's all achievable, but it will cost a bit more than if you were home to supervise it yourself.  Then again, if you were able to go home, it would cost you an air fare - so maybe it all balances out

Edited August 2, 2020 by Marisawright

[Marisawright]

21 hours ago, Ferrets said:

If you live in the house 365 my understanding is that there is no annual charge.  My parents have no knowledge of this charge.

Unfortunately that doesn't necessarily mean they're not liable to pay it.   Departments make mistakes and sometimes, they are in your favour.  

As an example, we've seen people on bridging visas being given a full Medicare card when they're not entitled to it, as well as health insurance companies issuing ordinary private health insurance to bridging visa holders.  Lucky for the people concerned, obviously!

Also worth noting that the land tax surcharge is a fairly new thing, maybe they purchased before it came into force?

[Barnyrubble]

According to Home affairs website 804 and 864 WE would be entitled to Medicare on either Visa.  However I believe we would pay for Private Medical to cover the gap.

Interestingly we went to Medicare to register for insurance purposes and they say we are still on the system from the 80s. We told them we did not live here and had not for  30 years but she issued cards!! 

[Marisawright]

26 minutes ago, Barnyrubble said:

According to Home affairs website 804 and 864 WE would be entitled to Medicare on either Visa.  However I believe we would pay for Private Medical to cover the gap.

Interestingly we went to Medicare to register for insurance purposes and they say we are still on the system from the 80s. We told them we did not live here and had not for  30 years but she issued cards!! 

That's lucky.   Now you've got your cards, it's very unlikely they'll be taken away, so you can relax.  

Private Medical does NOT cover the gap, even for Australians.  It covers treatment in a private hospital or by a private specialist - and even then, there is an excess to pay.  

The way Australian health care works is that Medicare has a "schedule fee" for every service and that's what Medicare will cover.  However, doctors are not employed by Medicare, except in public hospitals.  Instead, they are self-employed or work for private companies, and they are allowed to charge whatever they like.  If the doctor charges more than the schedule fee, you must pay the extra, and there is no insurance that will cover the extra cost. You can find some GP's who just charge the schedule fee (called "bulk billing")  but many don't, and very few specialists do.   

So, if you are content to be treated in public hospitals, you don't need private health insurance.  

[Barnyrubble]

Is anyone aware what medicare entitlement is granted on the 804 and/or the 864.  

This 3extra tax is crushing. Now wondering if we should consider buying property in our son's names to avoid all extra penalties but not sure of the ramifications of that.

[Marisawright]

31 minutes ago, Barnyrubble said:

Is anyone aware what medicare entitlement is granted on the 804 and/or the 864.  

This 3extra tax is crushing. Now wondering if we should consider buying property in our son's names to avoid all extra penalties but not sure of the ramifications of that.

Once you have the 804 or 864, you are entitled to the same Medicare as any other Australian.

While you are on the bridging visa for either visa, you are covered by the reciprocal agreement between the UK and Australia, which covers all essential treatment.

Note, however, my post above yours, which explains how the Australian system works.   Even Australians have to pay something towards their medical treatment a lot of the time, and prescriptions can be expensive.

If you put the property in your son's name, you are gifting him the money and he will own the property.  Therefore you need to consider how secure you would feel, knowing he has the right to sell the property at any time and you could do nothing about it. 

Edited August 2, 2020 by Marisawright