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Barnyrubble

Visa 804 aged parent visa

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Can anyone who has recently applied for this visa and is therefore on the bridging visa awaiting the grant  tell me if you buy a property are you classed as a temporary or foreign resident.

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You are classed as a foreign investor and must apply to FIRB for permission to buy. You will also pay substantial extra stamp duty 


Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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Apparently in addition to the extra 8% stamp duty we have to pay a surcharge and land tax totalling $25300 PER YEAR on land valued at $700k.  Really?  

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The extra stamp duty is much more than 8% in most states. You’ll usually end up paying about three times the stamp duty a resident would pay. 

I’m not sure about land tax but I could well believe it. You have to bear in mind that you’ve exploited a loophole in visa regulations to allow you to live in Australia without a substantive visa. There are bound to be major downsides


Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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I spoke to the land tax office. One person said yes we would be foreign and liable for annual charges.  The 2nd personsaid if the 804 bridging visa was open ended without an end date we would be classed as temporary . Very conflicting replies from the same office.

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5 minutes ago, Barnyrubble said:

I spoke to the land tax office. One person said yes we would be foreign and liable for annual charges.  The 2nd personsaid if the 804 bridging visa was open ended without an end date we would be classed as temporary . Very conflicting replies from the same office.

You can’t rely on their advice. You are definitely classed as a foreign investor when purchasing so I can’t see why that would change subsequently 


Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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I spoke to the land tax office. One person said yes we would be foreign and liable for annual charges.  The 2nd personsaid if the 804 bridging visa was open ended without an end date we would be classed as temporary . Very conflicting replies from the same office.

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Wow. We might return to the uk then  the costs would be astronomical. Thank you.  But can I ask how you know?

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Just now, Barnyrubble said:

Wow. We might return to the uk then  the costs would be astronomical. Thank you.  But can I ask how you know?

From being on these forums for a few years.


Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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Wow. We might return to the uk then  the costs would be astronomical. Thank you.  But can I ask how you know?

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 I have taken an interest in the 804 visa.  When I first joined these forums, people used to advise against using the onshore 804 visa because of its risks and downsides.   However, that was in the days when the waiting time for the Contributory Visa was only 3 years.

Once the waiting time for the CPV increased to 6-8 years, I started noticing agents suggesting the onshore 804 visa as a way to move to Australia within a reasonable timeframe.  An agent's job is to tell you what visas are available, not to explain all the financial, tax or health implications of them.  

The problem with the 804 is that you remain a foreigner, allowed to live temporarily in Australia while  your case is considered.  That means you get none of the benefits available to Australian residents, such as aged care support or cheap travel for seniors. If you're British, you're lucky because you can get treatment under the reciprocal agreement (which is designed for visitors but also applies to you).   However your UK pension is frozen at the current rate forever, and you wil not be eligible to claim the Australian one.  And as you've discovered, there are extra costs associated with buying property.

The big problem, though, is that your residency is not secure.  Let's say they decide to discontinue the 804 visa. You can't be in a queue for a visa that doesn't exist, so your bridging visa would be cancelled and you'd have to return to the UK.  However as you're no longer resident in the UK, you'll have lost access to the NHS and other benefits, and will have to prove your residency again before you can claim.  The other risk is that you live long enough for your application to be processed, in which case you'll have to pass medicals.  That may be a challenge if you're 80+ by then.  Fail and you'll be sent back to the UK, where you haven't had a home for 20 years or more (though there is a medical visa you might be able to apply for). 


Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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Well Marissa. You have just given us another worry to consider.  I think it's back to the uk and apply from there and hope we are still healthy enough in 4-5 years to he granted it. All our children and grandchildren are here.

Is the 864 such a risk and are you still classed as foreign till its granted in 4 -5 years? If so we would have to rent for that time to avoid all additional charges i suppose. 

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Barnyrubble said:

Well Marissa. You have just given us another worry to consider.  I think it's back to the uk and apply from there and hope we are still healthy enough in 4-5 years to he granted it. All our children and grandchildren are here.

Is the 864 such a risk and are you still classed as foreign till its granted in 4 -5 years? If so we would have to rent for that time to avoid all additional charges i suppose. 

The bad news is that the waiting time for the Contributory Parent Visas, if you apply today, is around 8 years.   Also consider that the fees are substantial.

If you are on a bridging visa of any kind, you are classed as a foreign investor for the purposes of buying property.  However, I would do the calculations to find out how much land tax you'd actually pay.  You pay no land tax on the value under $350,000 and over that, it's not a huge percentage.  

I know it's frustrating when your whole family is here, but be thankful that you have any options at all.  If you were Australian parents wishing to join their children in the UK, there would be no visa you could get. 

Edited by Marisawright

Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Barnyrubble said:

$25300 a year land tax and surcharge.

Is that what you calculated yourself, or what they told you?  As you've found, they've given you two different answers already, so I wouldn't rely on their word.

https://www.homeloanexperts.com.au/non-resident-mortgages/foreign-citizen-stamp-duty/

I am not a parent, I migrated to Australia over 30 years ago but I am one of four daughters so there was never a likelihood that my parents would follow.   A few years ago, we did consider retiring back in the UK but for various reasons, it didn't work out.

As it happens, I do not cope well with heat and can't stand typical Aussie summers.  We have now moved to Melbourne where we can enjoy four proper seasons. 

Edited by Marisawright

Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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My understanding:

Land tax surcharge is applicable if you are not resident in the property for 183 days a year.

FIRB charge is what it is.  Alongside the above it is designed to prevent foreign investors buying property and leaving vacant.

My parents are on bridging visa and it works for them at the moment. It is however not a "cheap" option and shouldn't be treated as such; FIRB and private medical, alongside reciprocal mount up.  

However you need to balance where you want to be, and importantly when you may be able to come back given current circumstances.

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In answer Marisa the Land tax office quoted that on a block value.

No one can confirm the foreign buyer, temporary resident info. Even the same office give different replies.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ferrets said:

My understanding:

Land tax surcharge is applicable if you are not resident in the property for 183 days a year.

FIRB charge is what it is.  Alongside the above it is designed to prevent foreign investors buying property and leaving vacant.

My parents are on bridging visa and it works for them at the moment. It is however not a "cheap" option and shouldn't be treated as such; FIRB and private medical, alongside reciprocal mount up.  

However you need to balance where you want to be, and importantly when you may be able to come back given current circumstances.

 

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Hi and thank you. How long from submission of application did it take for your parents to receive the bridging visa?  And are they taxed in both uk and Australia do you know?

We are now considering the 864 in the hope that paying the extraonies would give us more security and less aggravation.  But if the same applies that Marisa has quoted regatding always being a foreign resident and being charged those land tax and surcharge fees it is not possible.

The visa agent says if the bridging visa is open ended and not contain a  end date then we are should (?) be temporary and not foreign if we live here all year. That in itself is a worry that he cannot confirm anything.

We have cancelled our flights 4 or 5 times working about the flight and the numbers in the uk.  

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20 hours ago, Marisawright said:

 I have taken an interest in the 804 visa.  When I first joined these forums, people used to advise against using the onshore 804 visa because of its risks and downsides.   However, that was in the days when the waiting time for the Contributory Visa was only 3 years.

Once the waiting time for the CPV increased to 6-8 years, I started noticing agents suggesting the onshore 804 visa as a way to move to Australia within a reasonable timeframe.  An agent's job is to tell you what visas are available, not to explain all the financial, tax or health implications of them.  

The problem with the 804 is that you remain a foreigner, allowed to live temporarily in Australia while  your case is considered.  That means you get none of the benefits available to Australian residents, such as aged care support or cheap travel for seniors. If you're British, you're lucky because you can get treatment under the reciprocal agreement (which is designed for visitors but also applies to you).   However your UK pension is frozen at the current rate forever, and you wil not be eligible to claim the Australian one.  And as you've discovered, there are extra costs associated with buying property.

The big problem, though, is that your residency is not secure.  Let's say they decide to discontinue the 804 visa. You can't be in a queue for a visa that doesn't exist, so your bridging visa would be cancelled and you'd have to return to the UK.  However as you're no longer resident in the UK, you'll have lost access to the NHS and other benefits, and will have to prove your residency again before you can claim.  The other risk is that you live long enough for your application to be processed, in which case you'll have to pass medicals.  That may be a challenge if you're 80+ by then.  Fail and you'll be sent back to the UK, where you haven't had a home for 20 years or more (though there is a medical visa you might be able to apply for). 

Marisa I think it’s many years since the 804 visa was only a 3 year waiting time before grant. Friends have been waiting since 2011, haven’t seen them since December, but they were hopefull it might be granted this year or next.  and I can’t remember now how long it took another couple who applied in 2002, but fairly sure it was longer than 3 years even then.

When we applied for the onshore 864 in 2017 we innocently believed the wait time was 1 year. We were so lucky the visa conditions changed for people on our visa, otherwise we would still be waiting for years. 

 

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6 minutes ago, ramot said:

Marisa I think it’s many years since the 804 visa was only a 3 year waiting time before grant. Friends have been waiting since 2011, haven’t seen them since December, but they were hopefull it might be granted this year or next.  and I can’t remember now how long it took another couple who applied in 2002, but fairly sure it was longer than 3 years even then.

 

That post referred to the Contributory visa not the 804

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Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Barnyrubble said:

Hi and thank you. How long from submission of application did it take for your parents to receive the bridging visa?  And are they taxed in both uk and Australia do you know?

We are now considering the 864 in the hope that paying the extraonies would give us more security and less aggravation.  But if the same applies that Marisa has quoted regatding always being a foreign resident and being charged those land tax and surcharge fees it is not possible.

The visa agent says if the bridging visa is open ended and not contain a  end date then we are should (?) be temporary and not foreign if we live here all year. That in itself is a worry that he cannot confirm anything.

We have cancelled our flights 4 or 5 times working about the flight and the numbers in the uk.  

Please don’t take anything I write as anything but advice, everything must be checked please.

If your parents aren’t already in Australia? then at the moment I doubt they can get a flight here, because as far as I know only PR and citizens can get flights here at the moment and even they are having difficulties.

If and when your parents can come, some visas have a no further stay as a condition so you can’t I think apply for an onshore visa. Please check this.

Two other things, we were on a temporary long term visa which doesn’t exist any more. We had the right to live here on a visa that was renewed every 10 years, but we were always temporary residents not classed as residents.

All our income is from UK and we paid our tax in UK while we were temporary residents. Now we are PR  we are taxed in Australia 

Also not sure that the advice from your agent about being in Australia as temporary residents exempts you from paying the extra stamp duty? I can’t be sure as we bought before this was changed, we had to get FIRB approval before we bought, I don’t know anything about a land tax, sorry, 

Edited by ramot

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18 minutes ago, ramot said:

Please don’t take anything I write as anything but advice, everything must be checked please.

If your parents aren’t already in Australia? then at the moment I doubt they can get a flight here, because as far as I know only PR and citizens can get flights here at the moment and even they are having difficulties.

If and when your parents can come, some visas have a no further stay as a condition so you can’t I think apply for an onshore visa. Please check this.

Two other things, we were on a temporary long term visa which doesn’t exist any more. We had the right to live here on a visa that was renewed every 10 years, but we were always temporary residents not classed as residents.

All our income is from UK and we paid our tax in UK while we were temporary residents. Now we are PR  we are taxed in Australia 

Also not sure that the advice from your agent about being in Australia as temporary residents exempts you from paying the extra stamp duty? I can’t be sure as we bought before this was changed, we had to get FIRB approval before we bought, I don’t know anything about a land tax, sorry, 

I think the poster is the parent and onshore in Australia at the moment. 

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