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starlight7

Worst day so far

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Just one question , why hasn't the Federal govt taken charge of this, leaving it up to States means people will just try to move around to avoid local rules. Maybe Scomo doesn't want another load of grief.

It does seem that until everybody is coordinated it's going to be difficult to get a grip. 

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I guess with a big country like Australia it can't be 'one rule fits all'.  What is needed in Victoria is not the same as what is needed in remote Northern Territory areas. I'm not that happy with Daniel Andrew's approach but I am not sure if the opposition would be any better. With Andrew it seems to be 'we might' have to have more stringent controls and 'we might' have to do this or that. Can't understand why he doesn't just get on with it and make decisions instead of wavering around looking for some sort of imaginary approval. Still- I look at America and think thank the Lord we are here and not there.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

Just one question , why hasn't the Federal govt taken charge of this, leaving it up to States means people will just try to move around to avoid local rules. Maybe Scomo doesn't want another load of grief.

It does seem that until everybody is coordinated it's going to be difficult to get a grip. 

They did try. However thank goodness they didn’t because ScoMo was pushing hard to open all the internal  borders weeks ago, which would have been a disaster. He still reckons they should be open.

It’s thanks to the State Premiers refusing to yield to his pressure that WA, SA, NT and Tasmania are doing so well. 

It’s also worth noting that Aged Care homes are a federal responsibility 

Edited by Marisawright
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Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

They did try. However thank goodness they didn’t because ScoMo was pushing hard to open all the internal  borders weeks ago, which would have been a disaster. He still reckons they should be open.

It’s thanks to the State Premiers refusing to yield to his pressure that WA, SA, NT and Tasmania are doing so well. 

It’s also worth noting that Aged Care homes are a federal responsibility 

Alarming parallels with the USA.

As I said I don’t know how aged care is organised in Australia, I was just highlighting what contributed to the care home death rate in the UK, that and the emptying of elderly people from hospitals at the beginning of the pandemic to free up bed spaces, many of those 20,000 had covid but were offloaded into unprepared care homes 

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4 hours ago, starlight7 said:

I guess with a big country like Australia it can't be 'one rule fits all'.  What is needed in Victoria is not the same as what is needed in remote Northern Territory areas. I'm not that happy with Daniel Andrew's approach but I am not sure if the opposition would be any better. With Andrew it seems to be 'we might' have to have more stringent controls and 'we might' have to do this or that. Can't understand why he doesn't just get on with it and make decisions instead of wavering around looking for some sort of imaginary approval. Still- I look at America and think thank the Lord we are here and not there.

Because he's scared of the people who bleat on about having their "freedoms" trampled on.

Posters characterising him as "Chairman " Dan for instance.

The countries which have been most successful with controlling the virus have been those unafraid to manage, control and communicate tough messages to their populace.

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Posted (edited)

At the moment I'm listening to my own PM trying to explain why they opened up the shops, pubs and the rest of the economy and encouraged everyone out on a spending spree with only a half baked TT&Q system in place and now they are introducing a mini lockdown across the northwest at 2 hours notice, and you know what, he sounds as convincing as a kid caught with the proceeds of a shoplifting expedition

His sidekick, Whitty, Chief Scientist, looks like he wishes he was washing copses in a morgue rather than having to field questions to support Bojo

Edited by BacktoDemocracy

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17 hours ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

Because he's scared of the people who bleat on about having their "freedoms" trampled on.

Posters characterising him as "Chairman " Dan for instance.

The countries which have been most successful with controlling the virus have been those unafraid to manage, control and communicate tough messages to their populace.

Tough messages is one thing, enforcing is another. In Aus there are some very stupid and selfish people who seem to delight in working round rules and I've heard of facebook groups set up, one by a lawyer, advising Victorian people not to wear masks and ignore police roadblocks etc. He's advising letting the police take it to court and his firm will defend them. So probably looking for a bit of business.

What about those 2 stupid girls who caused an outbreak in Queensland. 

Fine for China and other dictatorships where you are in danger of losing your life and your family being threatened if you don't do as you're told.

Most people here are pretty good though. Obvious that it only takes a small percentage of people to ignore rules to cause mayhem though.

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On the whole Australians are pretty obedient in contrast to people in the USA who don't listen to anyone perceived to go against their 'freedoms' and 'rights'. The UK also seems to have more people who listen to advice than the USA does though I think the Australians as a whole tend to be more compliant. It was something I noticed early on , nearly 50 years ago for me now, and I didn't like it then but now I can see it as an asset in the current situation.

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Stage 4 lockdown in Victoria will be announced today.

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I want it all, and I want it now.

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On 31/07/2020 at 22:59, BacktoDemocracy said:

Posters characterising him as "Chairman " Dan for instance.

The whole Chairman Dan thing is blatantly political.   A phrase coined by Murdoch's tabloids, of course.  When the lockdown started, they called him "Chairman Dan" because they said he was being far too strict and dictatorial with the rules.     As soon as the spike happened, they started bleating that he wasn't strict enough.  

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Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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16 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

Tough messages is one thing, enforcing is another. In Aus there are some very stupid and selfish people who seem to delight in working round rules and I've heard of facebook groups set up, one by a lawyer, advising Victorian people not to wear masks and ignore police roadblocks etc. He's advising letting the police take it to court and his firm will defend them. So probably looking for a bit of business.

What about those 2 stupid girls who caused an outbreak in Queensland. 

Fine for China and other dictatorships where you are in danger of losing your life and your family being threatened if you don't do as you're told.

Most people here are pretty good though. Obvious that it only takes a small percentage of people to ignore rules to cause mayhem though.

It's funny, you spend your life socialising with intelligent people - then when something like this happens, you realise there's a frighteningly large percentage of the world's population that are thick.

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Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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On 31/07/2020 at 13:53, BacktoDemocracy said:

Alarming parallels with the USA.

As I said I don’t know how aged care is organised in Australia, I was just highlighting what contributed to the care home death rate in the UK, that and the emptying of elderly people from hospitals at the beginning of the pandemic to free up bed spaces, many of those 20,000 had covid but were offloaded into unprepared care homes 

It's almost like they didn't understand what quarantine meant.

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2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

The whole Chairman Dan thing is blatantly political.   A phrase coined by Murdoch's tabloids, of course.  When the lockdown started, they called him "Chairman Dan" because they said he was being far too strict and dictatorial with the rules.     As soon as the spike happened, they started bleating that he wasn't strict enough.  

If Murdoch is against you, then you are probably doing something right

 

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Chairman Dan has labelled us a State of Disaster and started curfews and lots more restrictions.

This had better work or we are all stuffed.

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I want it all, and I want it now.

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1 hour ago, Parley said:

Chairman Dan has labelled us a State of Disaster and started curfews and lots more restrictions.

This had better work or we are all stuffed.

There'll still be some idiots doing what they want - hope all you Victorians stay safe.

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Can't go out at night, can't go more than 5 km away to shop or walk.  Have to wear masks outside all the time.  All I hope is that the police jump on non compliance from a great height and make tons of money in fines from those who refuse to do the right thing. Today we were going to go to Bunnings to get some gardening stuff but we took one look at the queues outside and the close contact between people, got in the car and drove off. They wonder why it spreads! Same applies to some of the walking tracks-it is like Bourke Street Mall out there and we are better off just walking round our local streets.

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3 hours ago, Parley said:

Chairman Dan has labelled us a State of Disaster and started curfews and lots more restrictions.

This had better work or we are all stuffed.

The only countries that have got on top of this virus are those which have taken draconian measures to control their populace of stupid people.

Every country that has prevaricated and listened to the libertarian bleaters about freedoms is failing.

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2 hours ago, starlight7 said:

Can't go out at night, can't go more than 5 km away to shop or walk.  Have to wear masks outside all the time.  All I hope is that the police jump on non compliance from a great height and make tons of money in fines from those who refuse to do the right thing. Today we were going to go to Bunnings to get some gardening stuff but we took one look at the queues outside and the close contact between people, got in the car and drove off. They wonder why it spreads! Same applies to some of the walking tracks-it is like Bourke Street Mall out there and we are better off just walking round our local streets.

Keep safe xM

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On 02/08/2020 at 08:41, Marisawright said:

The whole Chairman Dan thing is blatantly political.   A phrase coined by Murdoch's tabloids, of course.  When the lockdown started, they called him "Chairman Dan" because they said he was being far too strict and dictatorial with the rules.     As soon as the spike happened, they started bleating that he wasn't strict enough.  

I'm not sure that the "Chairman Dan" started when lockdown started, it's more likely because of his close association with China and their "Belt and Road initiative".

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I agree Mike - it is his perceived favouritism towards all things Chinese.

 

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On 31/07/2020 at 15:05, BacktoDemocracy said:

Just one question , why hasn't the Federal govt taken charge of this, leaving it up to States means people will just try to move around to avoid local rules. Maybe Scomo doesn't want another load of grief.

It does seem that until everybody is coordinated it's going to be difficult to get a grip. 

Believe me mate, most people don't want the feds in charge of this stuff, espeically the current lot (after the bushfires).

Certainly not in WA where Mark McGowan has huge support for his stance.  I suspect SA, Qld and Tassie is the same.  The federal govt only dropped out of the court case against the WA state govt closed border at the last minute.  The Liberals would have been on track to have been completely wiped out in the west electorally.

Australia as a whole was doing quite well and on track for elimination until the quarantine breaches in Victoria.

It shows that it doesn't take much to spiral out of control.

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On 31/07/2020 at 17:05, BacktoDemocracy said:

Just one question , why hasn't the Federal govt taken charge of this, leaving it up to States means people will just try to move around to avoid local rules. Maybe Scomo doesn't want another load of grief.

It does seem that until everybody is coordinated it's going to be difficult to get a grip. 

Do you understand how Federation works ?


I want it all, and I want it now.

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28 minutes ago, Parley said:

Do you understand how Federation works ?

Yep its plain for all to see how it doesn't work.

All that manpower to close borders which could be used to actually fight the virus, but States Rights are so much more important than managing a country with a population of only 25 million and still making a pigs ear of it. Mind youmy own govt is making a dogs breakfast of managing a country of 52 million whist Scotland a seperate state seems to be getting on top of it with some proper management and clear messaging.

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39 minutes ago, Collie said:

Believe me mate, most people don't want the feds in charge of this stuff, espeically the current lot (after the bushfires).

Certainly not in WA where Mark McGowan has huge support for his stance.  I suspect SA, Qld and Tassie is the same. 

That is certainly the same in Tasmania.  The State Premier acted very swiftly and decisively in March to close the state borders - at the same time the PM was bragging about going to the football -  and dealt very effectively with a local Covid outbreak originating from the Ruby Princess cruise ship.    He was criticised by the PM over his actions - but told the PM in no uncertain terms to butt out.  The results have been very good for Tassie so far (fingers crossed) - only 1 infection in the last 81 days and that was a person who tested positive in hotel quarantine after arriving from Melbourne.

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8 hours ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

Yep its plain for all to see how it doesn't work.

All that manpower to close borders which could be used to actually fight the virus, but States Rights are so much more important than managing a country with a population of only 25 million and still making a pigs ear of it. Mind youmy own govt is making a dogs breakfast of managing a country of 52 million whist Scotland a seperate state seems to be getting on top of it with some proper management and clear messaging.

Have to disagree.

The states ensure that state level items are dealt with locally.

It's one of the major problems with England that the region's outside London don't get represented.

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