Impossible decision

[Marisawright]

On 30/07/2020 at 18:40, bunbury61 said:

I came back in 94 for a few years - or so I thought

And iam still here - we just have our mom here now ...

But the million dollar question is- there is a job to do and someone has to do it 

Good for you, @bunbury61.   When I moved to Australia, I got my citizenship as soon as possible, because I always thought I'd have to go home and look after my Dad at some point. Thank goodness I never had to, because one of my sisters took him on.  

My sister needed a place to live after a marriage break-up, and she was always very fond of our family home (which the rest of us thought of as old and draughty!).  So Dad sold her the house, on condition he could live there till he died, and split the proceeds between us all.

He lived for another 15 years.   Sadly, my two sisters now barely speak to her. They think she swindled us out of the house (funny that, because our Dad consulted us all about the price before he sold, and we all agreed) and she's now "sitting on a gold mine'.   Personally, I will be eternally grateful and can't put a price on the service she did for all of us.  

[Toots]

54 minutes ago, Fisher1 said:

We all have our own lives to live but for many people that goes out of the window when our elderly parents need us.It’s a very difficult time if your oldie needs a lot of care, but I couldn’t not help my mum - she was always there for me when I needed her. Well done you and your wife for stepping up, wishing you many happy times with your mum. A small tip about those hospital visits - I used to keep a ‘hospital bag’ in my wardrobe, ready to grab at any time. In the bag were: a gripping paperback, change for the drinks machine. a small cushion (for low backed chairs at two in the morning) a packet of mints, toothbrush and toothpaste, face wipes, deodorant, tissues, a clean tee shirt.

Mum was in very good health until the week before she died.  She had been playing golf then out to a social function with a group of friends and was in great fettle.  She rang her sister that night and said she felt "funny".  As soon as my aunt saw her she rang for an ambulance.  Mum had had a stroke.  I got the call and flew back immediately as did my siblings.  I arrived back on the Sunday and stayed by Mum's hospital bedside until she died on the Thursday.  I wish she had lived longer but she would have hated to be 'helpless" and in need of care.

[Quoll]

1 hour ago, Fisher1 said:

We all have our own lives to live but for many people that goes out of the window when our elderly parents need us.It’s a very difficult time if your oldie needs a lot of care, but I couldn’t not help my mum - she was always there for me when I needed her. Well done you and your wife for stepping up, wishing you many happy times with your mum. A small tip about those hospital visits - I used to keep a ‘hospital bag’ in my wardrobe, ready to grab at any time. In the bag were: a gripping paperback, change for the drinks machine. a small cushion (for low backed chairs at two in the morning) a packet of mints, toothbrush and toothpaste, face wipes, deodorant, tissues, a clean tee shirt.

I always took my knitting with me - I’ve made many a shawl or pair of socks while waiting in A&E! Never took a clean t shirt I must admit. But, then, we were only minutes from the hospital! 

[Fisher1]

11 hours ago, Quoll said:

I always took my knitting with me - I’ve made many a shawl or pair of socks while waiting in A&E! Never took a clean t shirt I must admit. But, then, we were only minutes from the hospital! 

Aha! We lived twenty miles away from the hospital in Bangor, and to get home by public transport it took a bus, a train and a walk. We were round the corner from the care home so the ambulance always waited for me, which meant I had no way to get back. I once left the hospital at six in the morning having sat in a hard low back chair since two - that’s when I planned the hospital bag

[Fisher1]

On 05/08/2020 at 10:57, Marisawright said:

Good for you, @bunbury61.   When I moved to Australia, I got my citizenship as soon as possible, because I always thought I'd have to go home and look after my Dad at some point. Thank goodness I never had to, because one of my sisters took him on.  

My sister needed a place to live after a marriage break-up, and she was always very fond of our family home (which the rest of us thought of as old and draughty!).  So Dad sold her the house, on condition he could live there till he died, and split the proceeds between us all.

He lived for another 15 years.   Sadly, my two sisters now barely speak to her. They think she swindled us out of the house (funny that, because our Dad consulted us all about the price before he sold, and we all agreed) and she's now "sitting on a gold mine'.   Personally, I will be eternally grateful and can't put a price on the service she did for all of us.  

That’s so sad. They have no idea.

[Quoll]

2 hours ago, Fisher1 said:

That’s so sad. They have no idea.

No, indeed. Being a carer is a thankless task I would have happily delegated to a sibling, no matter what the cost.

[Fisher1]

23 hours ago, Quoll said:

No, indeed. Being a carer is a thankless task I would have happily delegated to a sibling, no matter what the cost.

Me too Quoll. My sibling didn’t seem to notice that I had moved countries and taken early retirement in order to live down the road from mum should she need me - she actually once gave me a lecture about how difficult it was living some distance away ...  Ah but you know what, I’m glad I was there, mum appreciated it - she once said it was a good job I was around because I knew all the family stories and could remind her what had happened. 

[s713]

On 10/07/2020 at 05:12, Lynne shenfine said:

Hi everyone. 

This is my first post on this forum, however, I have been reading for a few weeks and have found it to be extremely interesting and helpful.

This could be a very, very long post but i will give a little bit of background and cut to the chase! I am Scottish and we are known for waffling on!

My husband and i emigrated to Adelaide from Newcastle upon Tyne in March 2013. His family all live in the north of England and my family in the  highlands of Scotland. My husband had spent time in Oz during his training in both Melbourne and Brisbane for a year at a time (we are going back around 25 years!) He said Australia got under his skin and despite landing an excellent job in the U.K he never quite settled and dreamed of going back. He was previously married with a daughter when we met. A fantastic opportunity arose in Adelaide so we decided to go for it knowing we could travel and visit family and we could go home if it didn't work out. We had to give it a go or spend the rest of our lives wondering what if?

We left with our nine month old daughter and our second daughter was born three months after we landed. Our children are now 8,7 and we have a 3 year old too. Our families supported us but were equally heartbroken which we never really talk about!

My husband had been travelling twice a year to see his now teenage daughter and she had come to visit us too as she was getting older. I have never been back since we emigrated as my mum and dad were coming out at least twice a year and I wanted to wait until our children were a bit older before we made the trip. That was meant to be this year! Obviously Covid  has pretty much put paid to all of that in the near future and we are left wondering what now???? My husband id devastated at the thought of not seeing his daughter. Despite the distance they are very close (we all are!) and we have . done an amazing job of maintaining the relationship via visits and weekly FaceTime video chats and phone calls. My mum and I are also very close and I phone her every day but its just not the same.

Life is good here. My husband is a consultant surgeon due to come a professor very soon, loves his public job and his colleagues and has a thriving private practice. We live in a beautiful house with a pool close to the beach and  our older girls go to the local school where they are happy. I am a nurse but don't work so I am home with the kids. We have friends but haven't really found our tribe. We also have two dogs and a cat which we adore! We are permanent residents but haven't gone for citizenship yet.....stupid we know!

But............

It all looks great on paper, however, we spent most of 2019 VERY unsettled. We talked constantly about family and going home. At this point our parents were ageing and becoming less able to travel. My husbands family, including his beautiful 80 year old mum, and the majority of my family have never met our two youngest children. Hubbys trips back to the UK were beginning to take its toll as all his holidays were spent travelling home while i stayed here with the kids and no support network just praying there wouldn't be a disaster while he was away! 

We do love Adelaide, however, have issues. the summer is brutal and I often find the kids and I are confined to a fairly indoor lifestyle during the summer school holidays. My husband earns well but despite gruelling hours between tax and cost of living we aren't much better off than when he worked in the NHS!  His private work also buys him body and soul but it is very much something you are expected to do here.  We feel extremely isolated from the rest of the world and are beginning to regret coming here. 

My husband applied for a few jobs last year but we pulled out thinking that equally we would be insane to leave. I should probably add that my husband is 50 and Im 41 so the thought of starting again is daunting.

We pulled out of the jobs thinking as long as we can travel we can probably cope. Then covid happened.

We are genuinely now torn every single day as to what to do. Every time we say we will stay literally within 24 hours one of us has changed their mind! 

Its become all consuming and we feel we can't move on with life. We are also acutely aware that time is not on our side with regards to our childrens education, and friendships and our ages.

We just can't shake the feeling that our Aussie dream has run  its course. We miss our families and feel we are denying our children contact with them and in particular their  big sister.

My husband has applied for a job in Bath which he is discussing with his ex UK colleague this weekend to see if it would be suitable.

However we are also worried that going back won't be what we think it. That we are rose tinting it and we won't see as much of our families as we think or that UK winters are far more miserable than we remember! It would be a one way trip for us. If we went back we wouldn't come back to Oz again for by the financial implications we couldn't put our families through the heartbreak again. We haven't even discussed this with our families as we  don't want to get their hopes up!

It really is an impossible decision with no right or wrong answer. 

ANY words of understanding or wisdom would be so appreciated.

Thank you if you have read this far and i hope you and your families are safe and well wherever in the world you are.

P.S told you i could talk!!

 

Some points made resonated with me.

There is a lot made on this site about the 'outside lifestyle' however, as you rightly point out and I don't read about much on here, summers in Australia are excessively hot. We found that we couldn't always go out walking or basically do anything for long periods of the summer (this was Perth). People are very quick to talk about moving from one centrally-heated place to another in the UK however Australia is similar in that summer is moving from one air-conditioned environment to another. Same difference. Summers are OK if you want to sit in your back garden drinking, we didn't.

Skype/FaceTime is absolutely no substitute for real family time. When we were contemplating moving back, I made a list of what we had missed out on i.e. births, deaths, marriages, birthdays, versus what we had in Australia e.g. a big house, a pool, a nearby beach, more hot weather etc. It helped focus the mind on what is important and, for us, it was a no-brainer.

Since returning we have found that being middle-aged feels much younger here than it did in Australia. You say you are 41 & 50, we were both 48 when we returned, you go the pub, there is a much better mix, you go for a meal, much better mix, we got the first jobs we applied for etc. etc. It just feels much easier. We were moving towards thoughts of retirement in Australia, we feel young again here.

It's hard being a migrant as, chances are, you'll have a foot in each camp for the rest of your life, at least metaphorically. So, if you move back to the UK then, I'm sure, some things will be worse than they were for you in Australia. I can only go on my own experiences and, for us as 48 year olds, it's been the best thing we ever did.

[Senfield]

On 13/07/2020 at 10:44, Hayley Gee said:

I really feel your pain. My partner and I moved to QLD five years ago for a two year adventure with a 4 and 6 year old. I was always very clear this was a short term thing and I had no intention of staying in Aus. After three years I told my partner I wanted to returned to the UK and he refused and has made me feel like I am a terrible, selfish person for wanting to leave. He has agreed to leave a number of times but was horrible to me and then changed his mind each time. He hates me because I want to go home and it will ruin his plan. His work is tough in the UK and I understand that. I finally got him to agree to leave in April this year and then Covid happened and I felt we should delay a few weeks. As we are PRs we can't leave now and he is using the COVID situation to add weight to his arguement - which of course it does. I feel totally miserable and trapped and really worried about returning and my (now 7 and 11 year old) kids hating me for dragging them back. They always liked the UK and know it well but my partner keeps telling them how bad it is there, so they are scared. My parents are in bad health and living alone and my son is due to start secondary school in September and I risk losing a good school place for him. I feel my only option is to try and get home as soon as possible, despite my citizenship application (Oct 2019) being put in jeopardy if I do and despite the UK Covid situation.

I know loads of people are in a situation. Just wanted to share my story.

Hayley Gee 

i am in the same position but no children in Australia. Arrived in Australia in 2010, again it being a short term arrangement. Experienced many ups & downs, tried hard to make a permanent adjustment but a growing sense of loneliness kept growing.

Mid last year, other half agreed to return to the Uk, but after Christmas 2019 in Uk (which was a disaster, another story) changed his mind (no discussion). Life has been unbearable since, Covid only adding to a dire situation. Both extremely unhappy but I cannot continue to live an unhappy life . So this will lead to us going our separate ways. Very sad but neither of us are happy. All extremely painful but no other choice. Hope you find your way.

[Home and Happy]

On 10/07/2020 at 10:18, Lynne shenfine said:

So sorry for your loss Quoll.

What a fantastic reply though. I think you summed up how I feel about Oz. I also agree that Bath is a beautiful part of the world and we could be very happy there if we are brave enough to make the move! Sending love xxx

I’m sure you will love it back here in the U.K.   We would never consider going back to that place again. It’s far better here.

[Fisher1]

On 21/08/2020 at 04:10, Home and Happy said:

I’m sure you will love it back here in the U.K.   We would never consider going back to that place again. It’s far better here.

I think you’re being a bit mean calling Australia “that place”. I can fully understand why you may not have settled and how happy you must be to be home, but Australia has been a good home to many people who read these posts and it sticks a bit to hear it called “that place.”

[ramot]

8 hours ago, Fisher1 said:

I think you’re being a bit mean calling Australia “that place”. I can fully understand why you may not have settled and how happy you must be to be home, but Australia has been a good home to many people who read these posts and it sticks a bit to hear it called “that place.”

Best to ignore some posters posts, it’s a bit like Groundhog Day.

[Toots]

1 hour ago, ramot said:

Best to ignore some posters posts, it’s a bit like Groundhog Day.

True.   Like a stuck record.

 

[Paul1Perth]

On 23/08/2020 at 05:54, ramot said:

Best to ignore some posters posts, it’s a bit like Groundhog Day.

I live in Perth, can't wait for summer, never felt like it's too hot to do anything. Weather's warming up a bit now, won't be long before it's beautiful ocean swimming weather. 

I can only think that home and happy chose the wrong suburb to live. Bit like the UK , or anywhere I guess, you can pick the wrong place.

There are some suburbs in land not 20km away where I wouldn't like it one bit. Must be 10 degrees hotter in summer than being near the ocean. 

Some people love the hills and the bigger plots you can afford. Good job we're not all the same.

[proud preston]

I'm back poring over the UK chat which means something has triggered in me from back over in the UK and I'm feeling homesick again  - this time- it's siblings going through rough times and I long to be with them. Zoom chat is great each week (why didn't we do this prior to Covid?) but I really miss being near to them (obviously allowing for UK Covid restrictions) In the 14 years I've been here I've missed the UK and yet went along with the thought of..before the kids start secondary school we will go, before the kids start uni we will go.... and now one is in uni and one in year 11 and we are still here so I think it's a distant dream now- also I'm over 50 too. Life -as many have said- looks good on paper- and it is..but I never hated the UK. For me, the weather, trees, countryside, buildings and family and friends.... my yearning for them is just as it was 14 years ago. Each time I went back to visit mum and I felt content, grounded.

Selfishly (as I've husband and teenagers to think of) ...but I miss all I that I loved in the UK- Quoll said it beautifully about "not my colours"-I think this can be interpreted in so many ways.  Mum passed early this year and I was with her- I could still so easily sob - for the huge loss of her but also that I chose to spend the last 14 years of her life on the other side of the world- encouraged to do this "for a better life for the family"!! In short, I'd encourage anyone who has this bubbling undercurrent of turmoil  and melancholy to follow their heart. I've left it too late-and those two questions- "do you want to grow old here? be laid to rest here?- make me shudder. For me- (and I know many don't feel this) but as in many societies/cultures- the feeling of truly belonging to where you were born will never pass. 

[bug family]

On 12/07/2020 at 22:34, BacktoDemocracy said:

This might be helpful in assessing how the UK is going

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/09/rishinomics-centralisation-government-local-communities-rishi-sunak-britain-whitehall

Not if you want a balanced view ...this is a left wing comic book

[Red Rose]

Life is so weird. It took me 7 years of living in Australia to realise how much I missed the UK. Coming home has felt like getting back into  an old pair of slippers and it’s so good to have Waitrose again  

[Marisawright]

11 hours ago, bug family said:

Not if you want a balanced view ...this is a left wing comic book

No it isn’t, but the point is that the economy  is irrelevant. If your heart is elsewhere then you will never be happy in another country, even if it’s an economic paradise 

Edited September 17, 2020 by Marisawright

[Home and Happy]

On 10/08/2020 at 12:38, s713 said:

Some points made resonated with me.

There is a lot made on this site about the 'outside lifestyle' however, as you rightly point out and I don't read about much on here, summers in Australia are excessively hot. We found that we couldn't always go out walking or basically do anything for long periods of the summer (this was Perth). People are very quick to talk about moving from one centrally-heated place to another in the UK however Australia is similar in that summer is moving from one air-conditioned environment to another. Same difference. Summers are OK if you want to sit in your back garden drinking, we didn't.

Skype/FaceTime is absolutely no substitute for real family time. When we were contemplating moving back, I made a list of what we had missed out on i.e. births, deaths, marriages, birthdays, versus what we had in Australia e.g. a big house, a pool, a nearby beach, more hot weather etc. It helped focus the mind on what is important and, for us, it was a no-brainer.

Since returning we have found that being middle-aged feels much younger here than it did in Australia. You say you are 41 & 50, we were both 48 when we returned, you go the pub, there is a much better mix, you go for a meal, much better mix, we got the first jobs we applied for etc. etc. It just feels much easier. We were moving towards thoughts of retirement in Australia, we feel young again here.

It's hard being a migrant as, chances are, you'll have a foot in each camp for the rest of your life, at least metaphorically. So, if you move back to the UK then, I'm sure, some things will be worse than they were for you in Australia. I can only go on my own experiences and, for us as 48 year olds, it's been the best thing we ever did.

Some things that resonated with me too in what you said in your reply....That bit about the summers in Perth, yep totally brutal and apart from a few months where it’s pleasant, the winters were depressing...grey dry and windy so most of the year the weather was truly rubbish. Stuck in your patio most of the time looking at a bland 6ft grey fibreboard fence.  We felt old down there like stuck in a retirement village....and in my late 30s an employment agency actually once told me I was too old for a job. Fast forward 8 years...sold up came home, both found great jobs quickly, better paid, bigger/better house than we had down there, more freedom, more money in our pockets, better work/life balance, nicer cheaper cars, great location, more happening, travel, friends, family, proper TV, List goes on. 

[rammygirl]

On 24/08/2020 at 11:11, Paul1Perth said:

I live in Perth, can't wait for summer, never felt like it's too hot to do anything. Weather's warming up a bit now, won't be long before it's beautiful ocean swimming weather. 

I can only think that home and happy chose the wrong suburb to live. Bit like the UK , or anywhere I guess, you can pick the wrong place.

There are some suburbs in land not 20km away where I wouldn't like it one bit. Must be 10 degrees hotter in summer than being near the ocean. 

Some people love the hills and the bigger plots you can afford. Good job we're not all the same.

I do agree. I read posts about living in Australia and it isn’t my experience at all.  Stuck in a box surrounded by brown grass, nothing to do, too hot.  Not my experience.  Four glorious seasons in the Adelaide Hills, restaurants cellar doors, cafes and shops within walking distance.  Friendly neighbours great community, grass green for most of the year. City and beaches a short drive. 
Seen more live music and theatre than in UK and don’t get me started on the festivals!

There is somewhere for everyone here it is a big country. 
 

Homesickness stops you from enjoying the present life, I think that is what the real issue is.

 

I do miss Europe but have loved being able to explore Asia, if you embrace the new and keep an open mind you never get old.  We will both be retired soon and looking forward to the adventures we can have exploring new places and new things. 

Edited September 19, 2020 by rammygirl

[ali]

37 minutes ago, rammygirl said:

I do agree. I read posts about living in Australia and it isn’t my experience at all.  Stuck in a box surrounded by brown grass, nothing to do, too hot.  Not my experience.  Four glorious seasons in the Adelaide Hills, restaurants cellar doors, cafes and shops within walking distance.  Friendly neighbours great community, grass green for most of the year. City and beaches a short drive. 
Seen more live music and theatre than in UK and don’t get me started on the festivals!

There is somewhere for everyone here it is a big country. 
 

Homesickness stops you from enjoying the present life, I think that is what the real issue is.

 

I do miss Europe but have loved being able to explore Asia, if you embrace the new and keep an open mind you never get old.  We will both be retired soon and looking forward to the adventures we can have exploring new places and new things. 

I do agree rammygirl and think this shows that we can experience the same things yet view them very differently.  My experience of Perth isn't the same as Home and Happy's but both of our feelings/experiences are real to us 

[ramot]

48 minutes ago, rammygirl said:

I do agree. I read posts about living in Australia and it isn’t my experience at all.  Stuck in a box surrounded by brown grass, nothing to do, too hot.  Not my experience.  Four glorious seasons in the Adelaide Hills, restaurants cellar doors, cafes and shops within walking distance.  Friendly neighbours great community, grass green for most of the year. City and beaches a short drive. 
Seen more live music and theatre than in UK and don’t get me started on the festivals!

There is somewhere for everyone here it is a big country. 
 

Homesickness stops you from enjoying the present life, I think that is what the real issue is.

 

I do miss Europe but have loved being able to explore Asia, if you embrace the new and keep an open mind you never get old.  We will both be retired soon and looking forward to the adventures we can have exploring new places and new things. 

If you have half as much fun and new experiences as we have had in the 17 years since we retired you will have a great life. Travelled to all the states, so please don’t tell me all of Australia is the same. Sadly you will be restricted to flying overseas for a while, so enjoy exploring Australia, when all the borders hopefully re open. 

[Toots]

22 minutes ago, rammygirl said:

I do agree. I read posts about living in Australia and it isn’t my experience at all.  Stuck in a box surrounded by brown grass, nothing to do, too hot.  Not my experience.  Four glorious seasons in the Adelaide Hills, restaurants cellar doors, cafes and shops within walking distance.  Friendly neighbours great community, grass green for most of the year. City and beaches a short drive. 
Seen more live music and theatre than in UK and don’t get me started on the festivals!

There is somewhere for everyone here it is a big country. 
 

Homesickness stops you from enjoying the present life, I think that is what the real issue is.

 

I do miss Europe but have loved being able to explore Asia, if you embrace the new and keep an open mind you never get old.  We will both be retired soon and looking forward to the adventures we can have exploring new places and new things. 

I think if you are always hankering after your life/family/friends in the UK you will never settle happily here.  I also read about the loneliness, heat, boredom from some posters.  It has never happened to me.  The first 3 years were an adventure.  During those 3 years we moved from Sydney where we both had good jobs then to Perth where we built a house close to the ocean then I had 2 babies and was kept very busy with them.  Made some lovely friends.  Work dried up for my husband so we moved back to Sydney.  Plenty of work there.  Once the boys were at school I went back to work.  No problem finding a decent well paid job.  Again made lovely friends.  Husband totally renovated our house.  I was in my job for more than 20 years.

We have had some great holidays back to the UK and other places.  Always wanted to live in Tasmania but work would have been a problem so waited until we retired.  We are very happy here.  Our NSW friends have also moved here bit by bit which has been lovely and we have a good social circle of friends locally.  It was the plan that I would be going to visit my sister in Edinburgh during the summer but of course due to Covid that was not possible.  She usually comes here for 2 or 3 months, Nov 'til Feb but that won't be possible this year either.  She is my only relative I am close to    .............  parents gone years ago also my brother.  I love going back to the UK to see old friends I've known since school days and my teens but I am now probably closer to the friends I have known here for 30 or more years.

The climate here in Tassie also suits me fine.  It's very different to other parts of Australia.  More like the south of England.  Four distinct seasons.  Lots of British style gardens around.  Nice soft lawns with daisies.  I'm not that interested in Europe.  Lived there in 3 different countries.  Our two sons work overseas -  who knows when or if they will return.  Of course I miss them but they are grown men making their way through life just like my husband and I did.  Life is for living not for yearning to be somewhere else.  Thank goodness I'm happy and settled as it would be a completely different story if I wasn't. 

  

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, rammygirl said:

Homesickness stops you from enjoying the present life, I think that is what the real issue is.

When you read posts which say they hate Australia, I think you can be pretty sure that is the underlying reason.  However it's important to acknowledge that for some people, homesickness is a real, deep-seated sickness that will never go away.  And that's the reason why it's pointless to tell people how great life would be if they just moved to another part of Australia which might suit them better.  If they're longing for their homeland then the only cure is to go back to it. 

[bug family]

7 hours ago, Marisawright said:

When you read posts which say they hate Australia, I think you can be pretty sure that is the underlying reason.  However it's important to acknowledge that for some people, homesickness is a real, deep-seated sickness that will never go away.  And that's the reason why it's pointless to tell people how great life would be if they just moved to another part of Australia which might suit them better.  If they're longing for their homeland then the only cure is to go back to it. 

Making total sense as per usual Marisa   Could not agree more, I have found that those that love it here in Australia tend not to understand how someone cannot be of the same view, I normally explain that its not Australia that I do not like, but in fact it is my home that I miss ......I appreciate Australia and all that it has to offer and how beautiful some parts are...its just its not my home and never will be