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bunbury61

Glasgow Stabbings

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2 hours ago, calNgary said:

You do seem to read more reports now a days stating that this wasn't their first offence or they had recently been released or where being 'monitored''. It is quite scary and makes you wonder how many offenders use the mental health card as an excuse for a lenient sentence or to avoid jail for whatever crime they have committed. 

  Cal x

Have you heard of a recent case where mental health issues WASN'T used as defense.

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1 hour ago, Toots said:

There was a real stigma about mental institutions or asylums as they used to be called.  My Mum had a good friend who had some sort of nervous breakdown when she was going through the menopause.  She was admitted to the local "asylum".  I don't know what happened to her in there but she was never the same when she came back home.  The place is now a college of some sort so hasn't been used as a psychiatric hospital for years.

My sons had a friend in the psychiatric hospital in Rozelle, Sydney.  He was suffering from psychosis due to drug taking and was released after a month a much better person due to medication but my sons told me there were some very strange and disturbed people in there too.  They also would have been released after a time and probably did not continue with their prescribed medication.  There were a fair number of "disturbed" people roaming the streets of Sydney and I dare say many other cities who should have been under special care in a psychiatric facility.

My Mum had mental issues all her life toots. Had several periods in mental institutions and they have got better over the years, with better treatment. I've seen her in a padded cell in a straight jacket and she had the electric shock treatment like one flew over the cuckoos nest years ago. 

They discovered Lithium is an emotional stabiliser for my mums condition in her 50's and she didn't have a serious breakdown after that. Regular blood tests are essential though, as it's a poison too.

I don't think she ever thought of stabbing anyone. Who knows though, she could never remember what she'd been up to for days before being admitted.

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39 minutes ago, Paul1Perth said:

Have you heard of a recent case where mental health issues WASN'T used as defense.

I haven't gone looking but not sure i have if i am honest. And there lies the problem, surely something more can be done punishment wise to prevent it being used as an excuse and thus allowing those who genuinely need help, the care they require. 

  Cal x

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If you don't go after what you want, you'll never have it. If you don't ask, the answer is always no. If you don't step forward, you're always in the same place...

If you get a chance,take it, If it changes your life,let it. Nobody said it would be easy they just said it would be worth it...

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48 minutes ago, Paul1Perth said:

My Mum had mental issues all her life toots. Had several periods in mental institutions and they have got better over the years, with better treatment. I've seen her in a padded cell in a straight jacket and she had the electric shock treatment like one flew over the cuckoos nest years ago. 

They discovered Lithium is an emotional stabiliser for my mums condition in her 50's and she didn't have a serious breakdown after that. Regular blood tests are essential though, as it's a poison too.

I don't think she ever thought of stabbing anyone. Who knows though, she could never remember what she'd been up to for days before being admitted.

Sorry about your Mum Paul.  It must have been a worry for you and your family.  Many women suffered from all sorts of mental illnesses related to post natal depression years ago.  Much better help for them now.  

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34 minutes ago, calNgary said:

I haven't gone looking but not sure i have if i am honest. And there lies the problem, surely something more can be done punishment wise to prevent it being used as an excuse and thus allowing those who genuinely need help, the care they require. 

  Cal x

But how do you know it was just an excuse? Like I said, there are very, very few places where the mentally disturbed can be kept safely out of society these days and political correctness (and cost) means there’s pressure to “rehabilitate them into the community”, ie turf them put as soon as possible.  

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Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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Enoch Powell closed the UK institutions down and rightly so.  

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1 hour ago, simmo said:

Enoch Powell closed the UK institutions down and rightly so.  

Why?

The 1968 Seebohm report laid out the framework but its recommendations were never adequately funded and its impetus in mental health was lost in one NHS reorganisation after another as the Tories cut costs.

Edited by BacktoDemocracy

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2 hours ago, simmo said:

Enoch Powell closed the UK institutions down and rightly so.  

Many of them were cruel almost Victorian like institutions.  Many years ago I watched a documentary about Rampton secure hospital - probably in the late 70's.  It was so sad to see some of the 'patients' who had done nothing wrong but their middle class families had them sectioned for life.  Some of them were females who had had an illegitimate baby, some had Downs Syndrome or were autistic sent by families who simply didn't want them.  Some had been there for decades alongside dangerous, mentally disturbed criminals.  It was shocking.  During the documentary the 'normal' people were being released but were finding it hard to cope.  I've never forgotten them.

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9 minutes ago, Toots said:

Many of them were cruel almost Victorian like institutions.  Many years ago I watched a documentary about Rampton secure hospital - probably in the late 70's.  It was so sad to see some of the 'patients' who had done nothing wrong but their middle class families had them sectioned for life.  Some of them were females who had had an illegitimate baby, some had Downs Syndrome or were autistic sent by families who simply didn't want them.  Some had been there for decades alongside dangerous, mentally disturbed criminals.  It was shocking.  During the documentary the 'normal' people were being released but were finding it hard to cope.  I've never forgotten them.

I know they were very poor but as with so much social  policy in the UK they were initially run by charities and badly under funded, and as you say the legal framework right up into the '60's was about detention and providing somewhere to hide the disabled away, and the legislation was about doing that and was a hang over from the late 1800's and the Poor law/Workhouses and all of that was there until the early 1960's, but one of the main drivers was, as always, to cheapen the cost of mental health provision and even now a lot of work with intellectual and physical disability relies on charitable bodies.

Many of the big mental hospital sites were never redeveloped for proper treatment and housing for vulnerable people but were sold off for housing development because, like Friern Barnet, they were prime city edge sites, the promise that the money from selling the sites would be used to enhance life chances for the disabled never seem to be the case and as I say there are still numerous charities plugging holes in support for the disabled. I remember Brian Rix and Mencap in the 70's and onwards

The UK still continues to ration mental health treatment, you might wait up to 4-6 months to see a counsellor or therapist and then be limited to 6 or 8 sessions or very exceptionally 10 sessions if the person is simply not coping or might get some direct hospital treatment if they are at risk of harming themselves or others,  most of the time it is drug therapies as a stop gap.

It is much easier. still, to hide depression and anxiety than somebody with a broken hip 

 

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There was a hospital here that offered longer term residential treatment for mental health issues and of course it was closed when they closed all the other places like that many years ago. When I was working we used to counsel a group of people with schizophrenia and bi-polar disorders and many of them really liked the safety of those places and actually enjoyed their stays . They regarded them as emergency backstops where you could relax and be yourself and recover at your own pace.  Until I came across these people I thought what most think- that they were cruel and inhumane.  Just another side though- I think there is a place for these 'places of rest and recuperation' or 'convalescent' places.

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12 hours ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

Why?

The 1968 Seebohm report laid out the framework but its recommendations were never adequately funded and its impetus in mental health was lost in one NHS reorganisation after another as the Tories cut costs.

Labour have held power in this time and did nothing as well , Wilson , Callaghan, Blair and brown or are you conveniently forgetting these periods.

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