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Off Topic Coronavirus 2020

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6 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

It's easy for us and the media to criticise governments reaction. I don't think anyone took it seriously enough when we first heard about it. We didn't like it when they told us there was going to be a lockdown, the government were overreacting, we don't like it now we're in it and constantly question whether it's working, now the media are wanting to know when it's going to be over. 

If they knew themselves they would tell us.

What mistakes do you think they made Newjez. Too late with the lockdown, too early, should have shut schools earlier, should have kept them open? I've heard different people at different times argue all ways. The governments can't win, whatever they do there's some media person who knows better and they make a living out of criticism. Now we all have constant access to information and criticism it starts the public to question every move.

Good job we never had the internet during the 2nd world war. Dunkirk would never have happened and the Germans would have won inside a year.

Bad analogy.

There were plenty of red flags in the 1930s which were ignored.

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Timeline: 309/100 Sent 7/8/13, Money Taken 9/8/13, CO appointed 3/9/13. Med 3/12/13. Police check 4/12/13. VISA GRANTED 8/4/14, Subclass100. Recce August 2014. Arrived 30 July 2015.

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4 minutes ago, newjez said:

There were a lot of calls for the UK government to lock down much earlier than they did. Many others were already locking down, many with a lot fewer cases than the UK. When we did lock down, we did it very slowly and didn't close the schools for children from non essential workers.

We didn't ban flights from outbreak countries until way too late.

We didn't quarantine and track people flying back from suspect countries. 

We didn't ban sporting events until much too late.

Everything the UK government did was less or later than other countries, and we will pay a price for that with the lives of our loved ones.

The fact that so many political figures have been infected highlights the contempt that was given to the virus. The UK government didn't take it seriously, and people died. The USA are the same. They could have saved many more lives if they had been on the ball. Australia wins in this game I'm afraid.

Cannot disagree with any of this.

Add to that the lack of testing.  The UK is reporting less than half the number of cases of Germany but 3 times the number of deaths.  People are right now dying at home having never had a test for COVID19.  Because of this the scale of this issue has never been fully apparent.

Australia’s remoteness helps a great deal however broadly our Federal and State Governments have got far more right than they have got wrong.  The number of deaths in Australia will scale up in the coming week as there are at least 100 people currently in intensive care.

Australians obsession with cruising hasn’t helped.

We just have to then hope that the measures brought in 2 weeks ago keep the numbers low.

It looks like New Zealand had the best grasp on this.

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Timeline: 309/100 Sent 7/8/13, Money Taken 9/8/13, CO appointed 3/9/13. Med 3/12/13. Police check 4/12/13. VISA GRANTED 8/4/14, Subclass100. Recce August 2014. Arrived 30 July 2015.

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9 minutes ago, newjez said:

There were a lot of calls for the UK government to lock down much earlier than they did. Many others were already locking down, many with a lot fewer cases than the UK. When we did lock down, we did it very slowly and didn't close the schools for children from non essential workers.

We didn't ban flights from outbreak countries until way too late.

We didn't quarantine and track people flying back from suspect countries. 

We didn't ban sporting events until much too late.

Everything the UK government did was less or later than other countries, and we will pay a price for that with the lives of our loved ones.

The fact that so many political figures have been infected highlights the contempt that was given to the virus. The UK government didn't take it seriously, and people died. The USA are the same. They could have saved many more lives if they had been on the ball. Australia wins in this game I'm afraid.

100%. There's lots of posts of here about letting politicians get on with it and just do as we're told. I've never read such bollocks.

If the public and the media had let the Govt away with their constantly inept strategesing, can you imagine the state we'd be in now?

They have consistently reacted after the fact to put measures in place that other countries have and that even the public have been asking for.

I'm all for clubbing together while we're under the cosh but, once this is done and dusted, some serious finger pointing needs to go on. These bastards have treated the NHS with disdain for 10 years, will go back to doing that in a split second once this is over, a bit of clapping and hero worshipping on a Thursday night is supposed to gloss over that. Do me a favour.

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53 minutes ago, newjez said:

There were a lot of calls for the UK government to lock down much earlier than they did. Many others were already locking down, many with a lot fewer cases than the UK. When we did lock down, we did it very slowly and didn't close the schools for children from non essential workers.

We didn't ban flights from outbreak countries until way too late.

We didn't quarantine and track people flying back from suspect countries. 

We didn't ban sporting events until much too late.

Everything the UK government did was less or later than other countries, and we will pay a price for that with the lives of our loved ones.

The fact that so many political figures have been infected highlights the contempt that was given to the virus. The UK government didn't take it seriously, and people died. The USA are the same. They could have saved many more lives if they had been on the ball. Australia wins in this game I'm afraid.

We are all geniuses with the benefit of hindsight

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I want it all, and I want it now.

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I must say that video that keeps being shown of Boris Johnson washing his hands.

He didn't wash them very well at all so I expect he is a bit sloppy with his personal hygiene. Maybe that is why he caught it.

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I want it all, and I want it now.

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57 minutes ago, newjez said:

There were a lot of calls for the UK government to lock down much earlier than they did. Many others were already locking down, many with a lot fewer cases than the UK. When we did lock down, we did it very slowly and didn't close the schools for children from non essential workers.

We didn't ban flights from outbreak countries until way too late.

We didn't quarantine and track people flying back from suspect countries. 

We didn't ban sporting events until much too late.

Everything the UK government did was less or later than other countries, and we will pay a price for that with the lives of our loved ones.

The fact that so many political figures have been infected highlights the contempt that was given to the virus. The UK government didn't take it seriously, and people died. The USA are the same. They could have saved many more lives if they had been on the ball. Australia wins in this game I'm afraid.

do you think other countries could have handled this better or is that just a slight on the UK Government?

For instance......Spain......Italy......France......3 major players and all dealing with exceptional circumstances and an on going catastrophe......how about Belgium.....Holland.....or even Switzerland......all dealing with a major crisis and all dealing with considerably higher death rates per M of the population than us......Does Australia also win those games?

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25 minutes ago, s713 said:

100%. There's lots of posts of here about letting politicians get on with it and just do as we're told. I've never read such bollocks.

If the public and the media had let the Govt away with their constantly inept strategesing, can you imagine the state we'd be in now?

They have consistently reacted after the fact to put measures in place that other countries have and that even the public have been asking for.

I'm all for clubbing together while we're under the cosh but, once this is done and dusted, some serious finger pointing needs to go on. These bastards have treated the NHS with disdain for 10 years, will go back to doing that in a split second once this is over, a bit of clapping and hero worshipping on a Thursday night is supposed to gloss over that. Do me a favour.

If it was disdain, they and their big business mates made money out of it and everything else that was privatised whilst providing the poorest of services that the public could do nothing about.

You're right and the disdain is still there, just watched  Raab's press conference from last night and that govt scientific adviser, Vallance, saying its improving because cases are slowing, this is despite the fact our level of testing is laughably low, so how the f.... do we have any clear picture based on that.

People are already wanting an end to lockdown, there seems to be no understanding that this is going to be a lengthy process, the first patients enter the 4000 bed hospital at the exhibition centre in London and work continues to open 2 others in Manchester and Birmingham, does that sound like they have this under control.

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12 minutes ago, Parley said:

We are all geniuses with the benefit of hindsight

No, there were plenty of voices expressing concern about the govts dithering, they failed to act because they were afraid of the rightwing gutter press slagging them off for panicking and wrecking the economy so preferred to sit it out and hope it would be a none event, in the way they have done with every problem they have created with their stupid 'ausrerity' so called policy.

Well this time this problem cannot be laughed off, they are having to take responsibility for it and it is all too obvious they are not up to it and are being bailed out by the very people, as s173 points out, they have treated with disdain.

The people paying for this govts appalling behaviour are the old, the infirm and the disadvantaged but that's no different to usual is it and whilst I'm in rant mode, has anyone noticed how many of the dead NHS staff are of overseas heritage, I bet no one's saying " I want a white doctor/nurse" now

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24 minutes ago, Parley said:

I must say that video that keeps being shown of Boris Johnson washing his hands.

He didn't wash them very well at all so I expect he is a bit sloppy with his personal hygiene. Maybe that is why he caught it.

I am afraid that Boris was boasting that he was still happy to shake hands with everyone long past the time when this was a remotely sensible thing to do.  Sadly he thought he could deal with the Coronavirus in the same style he brought to the Brexit issue (confidence and flippancy tinged with humour).  Even before he started getting symptoms it was evident to him that this approach had been a monumental error.

I sincerely hope that he gets through this illness and makes a full recovery.

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Timeline: 309/100 Sent 7/8/13, Money Taken 9/8/13, CO appointed 3/9/13. Med 3/12/13. Police check 4/12/13. VISA GRANTED 8/4/14, Subclass100. Recce August 2014. Arrived 30 July 2015.

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Donald Trump isn't very impressed with the World Health Organisation.  He is threatening to hold back on WHO funding.

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22 minutes ago, kungfustu said:

do you think other countries could have handled this better or is that just a slight on the UK Government?

For instance......Spain......Italy......France......3 major players and all dealing with exceptional circumstances and an on going catastrophe......how about Belgium.....Holland.....or even Switzerland......all dealing with a major crisis and all dealing with considerably higher death rates per M of the population than us......Does Australia also win those games?

Well Germany seem to be getting on top of it, S Korea and Singapore seem to have done quite well and even China seem have got on top of it, brutally I will agree but, nonetheless, they are returning to some kind of normality after 4.5 months.

Where govts have been weak and dithered they have failed big time, so Italy', Spain, France less so, but the UK is up there with the ditherers big time and has been shown to be as badly prepared as any as a pandemic took shape and gave them more than 2 months notice of its  arrival. 

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10 minutes ago, Toots said:

Donald Trump isn't very impressed with the World Health Organisation.  He is threatening to hold back on WHO funding.

Anything to divert blame from him to anyone Chump can find to make the patsy for his own appalling failings.

I am amazed that he can still find anyone to work for him, although it seems that he is now at the bottom of the barrel as he sacks his ACTING secretary for the Navy.

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We are all geniuses with the benefit of hindsight



Except, it wasn’t hind sight, and the only way to learn lessons is by reflecting on the past. A necessary evil. Hindsight. So is being held to account.

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Donald Trump isn't very impressed with the World Health Organisation.  He is threatening to hold back on WHO funding.



Oh Gawd. Words fail me.

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1 hour ago, Toots said:

Donald Trump isn't very impressed with the World Health Organisation.  He is threatening to hold back on WHO funding.

Most of those UN bodies are hopeless.

What do they achieve ?


I want it all, and I want it now.

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Just now, Parley said:

Most of those UN bodies are hopeless.

What do they achieve ?

World health?

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1 hour ago, kungfustu said:

do you think other countries could have handled this better or is that just a slight on the UK Government?

For instance......Spain......Italy......France......3 major players and all dealing with exceptional circumstances and an on going catastrophe......how about Belgium.....Holland.....or even Switzerland......all dealing with a major crisis and all dealing with considerably higher death rates per M of the population than us......Does Australia also win those games?

Italy was taken by surprise. You can let them off for that. Spain and France reacted faster than the UK, but they were still slow.

I know it hurts you to admit it, but there are many countries that have handled this much better than the UK, including Australia and New Zealand.

I mean for god's sake, countries were screaming at the UK to change their approach as it was going to lead to disaster. The UK was talking herd immunity for god's sake.

This wasn't very long ago. Surely you can remember the facts of a matter of weeks ago?

 

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1 hour ago, Parley said:

We are all geniuses with the benefit of hindsight

It's not hindsight parley.

Places like Mumsnet were screaming for the UK to lockdown.

Other countries were begging the UK to change tack.

It's wasn't hindsight, it was arrogance and ignorance, bordering on bleeding stupidity. 

It can only be incompetence or greed. I suspect the latter.

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I’ve split the thread again this can be for political discussions and anything else not health related on the coronavirus 


If you are depressed you are living in the past. If you are anxious you are living in the future. If you are at peace you are living in the present.

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What I really don't get is that Britain is an island and yet they don't close the borders.  Too late now but why on earth didn't they do just that immediately?  Hope they have at least blocked that wretched tunnel. Don't have to be Einstein to work that one out, do you?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, kungfustu said:

do you think other countries could have handled this better or is that just a slight on the UK Government?

For instance......Spain......Italy......France......3 major players and all dealing with exceptional circumstances and an on going catastrophe......how about Belgium.....Holland.....or even Switzerland......all dealing with a major crisis and all dealing with considerably higher death rates per M of the population than us......Does Australia also win those games?

Its not a competition between nations as to who jumped first and who stood by holding the drinks.  Australia unlike a host of other nations, certainly jumped early, but for a number of reasons.

Firstly, In late February Aust. was still coming to terms with the summer bushfires insofar as the recovery operations were still active to a certain extent.  We were still in disaster mode and certainly Scott Morrison PM was probably reflecting on the Aust. bushfires and whether or not he should have been more forthright in stepping up as the leader of the nation under stress during those particularly dark days during the bushfires. He was not going to let that happen again, when the mirky picture of Coronavirus started to form a distinct picture. 

He jumped, probably on good advice from equally good experts that he  had called together and declared that Aust. would treat Coronavirus as a Pandemic quite early on,  and from that point onwards. I posted that some time ago here on PIO.

The other factor is that,although Aust. respects world bodies such as WHO and the UN, yet..... since the East Timor fracas in 1999, Aust. no longer takes direction from the UN and for that matter, similar world bodies. I was in Darwin in 1999, associated with,  but not a member of, the ADF, and I remember the frustration of the assembled "UN" invasion force waiting in the hotels in Darwin for the UN to shoot the starters gun and go into East Timor. I also recall that the Canadians were there in Darwin as well  and I just may have a had a beer or two with them. .

So the point is. Aust dived in early because it was already revved up, following the 2020 Summer Bushfires, and was an early bird in this respect given that disaster was on the front burner anyway. . It was never going to wait by the phone to receive a call from the UN or the WHO.

Overall the antipodean forces assisted the decision making of other world leaders to pull their finger out and make the hard decisions such as those that Australia had made. largely  because of the benefit that Australia was still in disaster mode, and still socially stressed when those decisions were made.   

 

Edited by Dusty Plains

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7 minutes ago, Dusty Plains said:

Its not a competition between nations as to who jumped first and who stood by holding the drinks.

It sort of is if you are extremely vulnerable and your life is in danger. I just thank god that the UK changed tack eventually under the weight of foreign pressure. I withdrew my kids from school long before the government closed them. Tory tardyness was risking my life.

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1 minute ago, newjez said:

It sort of is if you are extremely vulnerable and your life is in danger. I just thank god that the UK changed tack eventually under the weight of foreign pressure. I withdrew my kids from school long before the government closed them. Tory tardyness was risking my life.

Well done and  very insightful on your part. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Parley said:

Most of those UN bodies are hopeless.

What do they achieve ?

Well who else is going to do it then? Chump?

33 minutes ago, starlight7 said:

What I really don't get is that Britain is an island and yet they don't close the borders.  Too late now but why on earth didn't they do just that immediately?  Hope they have at least blocked that wretched tunnel. Don't have to be Einstein to work that one out, do you?

It was not sealing the borders that was the problem, it was not monitoring and checking travellers and identifying carriers and quarantining them, not done because of negligence and a complete lack of staff and preparedness after cuts to PH staff, privatisation of airports and giant cuts to Border control staff by austerity obsessed Tory govt,  they even failed to use EH staff because they thought that would give them increased credibility.

Edited by BacktoDemocracy
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On 07/04/2020 at 19:00, Rossmoyne said:

Thank you for posting that Toots.   I have heard of this man before but havent really taken much notice and just thought he was a bit out there.   However after watching that utube interview, he has spoken about a lot of things that I have been thinking about over the last year or two, 

Do bear in mind that David Icke believes there's a race of lizard-like, shape-shifting aliens who are behind all of it. 


Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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