UK plumber wanting to move on, 189??

[BrummieInOz]

Hi folks,

I've just signed up to this site as a google search brought me here and I could do with your help please with a few questions. 

I turned 31 a couple of weeks ago and I was in Australia for 11 weeks earlier this year on my WHV. But I had to fly back due to the corona virus as I wasn't sure what was going to happen with the whole situation.

I am in 2 minds as too whether to go back on my WHV which is due to expire in Jan 2021 (maybe extended) and hopefully get sponsored or apply for a permanent skilled visa. 

 

Can I get sponsored by an agency? As that's mainly all the job advertisements I see. I love Perth but I'd have to work in Sydney as they dont require a plumbing licence and there is more my kind of plumbing work available there.... being New Build Construction Plumbing, like 1st, 2nd and 3rd fix on large scale sites.

I have an NVQ level 3 in Plumbing after completing my 3 year apprenticeship. Do them 3 years class as my experience within the trade or does it start from the date I am qualified?

Is the only difference between 189 and 190 visa the fact that, on 190 I am restricted into working with an employer for 2 years and can only work in a certain state?

Also, what first aid certificate would I require? Can I get one from anywhere in the UK or does it have to contain a specific australian related incidents, such as snake bites or something?

 

Again any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks for your time

[Ausvisitor]

In relation to the plumbing bit, I haven't a clue, but on the 189 vs 190 visa I can help with that

There is little actual difference between the 189 and 190 in practice (once granted) if you apply for a 190 in the state you want to live and work in. The only difference (after grant) between the two is that you have an obligation to live and work in your sponsoring state for 2 years on a 190, and this obligation does not exist for the 189. You aren't tied to a specific employer or region (so long as it's in the state). [Some people argue it's only a moral obligation rather than a requirement, but that's something only your own conscience can answer]

In terms of applying the main difference is that on the 189 you sit in a queue, that is really a series of queues. Everyone lines up in order of points accumulated, and within each point total you line up in date submitted. 

Each month (11th I think) they call a certain number from the queue and they take them from the top. Now if you have 90 points and have been in the 90 point queue for 18 months you are ahead of everyone in the queue who has less than 95 points. However if there are 101 people in the 95 point queue and they only call 100 forward you miss out that month even if the 100th invite goes to someone with 95 points who only submitted their EOI yesterday. {It's further complicated by pro-rata careers, but I don't think yours is one of those}

 

WIth the 190 it works differently, you submit your EOI and so long as you have the min points, you go into a "pot" at the state immigration team. They can dip in and out of this as required to fill perceived needs in their state. It isn't always the case that highest points win here, sometimes they need a specific career and so take anyone, or they want only superior english (but they don't publish what it is that they are making their decision on)

If you know the state you want, and you have a valid claim for a visa, then unless you are going to end up with 95+ points it is probably better to go for a 190 rather an a 189

 

 

[BrummieInOz]

9 minutes ago, Ausvisitor said:

In relation to the plumbing bit, I haven't a clue, but on the 189 vs 190 visa I can help with that

There is little actual difference between the 189 and 190 in practice (once granted) if you apply for a 190 in the state you want to live and work in. The only difference (after grant) between the two is that you have an obligation to live and work in your sponsoring state for 2 years on a 190, and this obligation does not exist for the 189. You aren't tied to a specific employer or region (so long as it's in the state). [Some people argue it's only a moral obligation rather than a requirement, but that's something only your own conscience can answer]

In terms of applying the main difference is that on the 189 you sit in a queue, that is really a series of queues. Everyone lines up in order of points accumulated, and within each point total you line up in date submitted. 

Each month (11th I think) they call a certain number from the queue and they take them from the top. Now if you have 90 points and have been in the 90 point queue for 18 months you are ahead of everyone in the queue who has less than 95 points. However if there are 101 people in the 95 point queue and they only call 100 forward you miss out that month even if the 100th invite goes to someone with 95 points who only submitted their EOI yesterday. {It's further complicated by pro-rata careers, but I don't think yours is one of those}

 

WIth the 190 it works differently, you submit your EOI and so long as you have the min points, you go into a "pot" at the state immigration team. They can dip in and out of this as required to fill perceived needs in their state. It isn't always the case that highest points win here, sometimes they need a specific career and so take anyone, or they want only superior english (but they don't publish what it is that they are making their decision on)

If you know the state you want, and you have a valid claim for a visa, then unless you are going to end up with 95+ points it is probably better to go for a 190 rather an a 189

 

 

Thanks for you detailed answer.

I only get 65 points, that depends on me getting the highest points (20) in english too. I read somewhere that I dont need to do a test if I hold a UK passport, seeing as though its my natural spoken language.

Makes sence for me to apply for a 190 then albeit the plumbing side is okay.

[cheese n pickle]

I'm pretty sure you would need a licence in NSW too. Maybe check here: https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/trades-and-businesses/licensing-and-qualifications/plumbing,-draining-and-gasfitting
And I think with the English points, if you're claiming points you have to have taken the test to claim them, just having a UK passport doesn't qualify but hopefully someone more knowledgeable can confirm this.

[Marisawright]

3 hours ago, BrummieInOz said:

I only get 65 points, that depends on me getting the highest points (20) in english too. I read somewhere that I dont need to do a test if I hold a UK passport

Makes sence for me to apply for a 190 then albeit the plumbing side is okay.

With 65 points, you have absolutely no chance of a 189 visa.   You don't have to take the English test as a native speaker, but most people do because they need the points. By the way, don't assume you'll score highly in the test, either.  Lots of people don't. 

Your years of experience start from when you actually qualified, so you won't be able to apply for any visa until you've racked up the minimum required years.   

Agencies do not sponsor people.  There are a few unscrupulous agencies that promise to find work for you, they are a scam. 

It is possible to find an employer to sponsor you, that's a 482 visa. There are requirements for that visa too and you have to meet them - employers can't sponsor just anybody they feel like.  When you're on a WHV, you hear a lot of rumours about people who've arrived on a WHV and managed to get sponsored.  Most of them are just rumours - it does happen, but only for a very small number of people, who have arrived on their WHV with existing qualifications and experience.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Marisawright

[paulhand]

8 hours ago, BrummieInOz said:

Thanks for you detailed answer.

I only get 65 points, that depends on me getting the highest points (20) in english too. I read somewhere that I dont need to do a test if I hold a UK passport, seeing as though its my natural spoken language.

Makes sence for me to apply for a 190 then albeit the plumbing side is okay.

You need to score highly (IELTS 8/8/8/8 or equivalent) in a formal English test to get the 20 points. The British passport gets you over the line for minimum English skill to apply, but gives you zero points. 

[Ausvisitor]

1 hour ago, paulhand said:

You need to score highly (IELTS 8/8/8/8 or equivalent) in a formal English test to get the 20 points. The British passport gets you over the line for minimum English skill to apply, but gives you zero points. 

As others have said, don't assume 20 points is a given, I've got a degree and a master's in English Language and the first time I took the test I narrowly missed getting. The superior English mark. Plenty of teachers etc. have also missed out on full marks, so just because English is your main language don't assume you'll get full points

[Lavers]

10 hours ago, BrummieInOz said:

Thanks for you detailed answer.

I only get 65 points, that depends on me getting the highest points (20) in english too. I read somewhere that I dont need to do a test if I hold a UK passport, seeing as though its my natural spoken language.

Makes sence for me to apply for a 190 then albeit the plumbing side is okay. 

Does the 65 points take into 5 points for state sponsorship and also do you get 10 points with the new point system for being single?

Also when did you finish your apprenticeship? 

[BrummieInOz]

13 hours ago, Marisawright said:

With 65 points, you have absolutely no chance of a 189 visa.   You don't have to take the English test as a native speaker, but most people do because they need the points. By the way, don't assume you'll score highly in the test, either.  Lots of people don't. 

Your years of experience start from when you actually qualified, so you won't be able to apply for any visa until you've racked up the minimum required years.   

Agencies do not sponsor people.  There are a few unscrupulous agencies that promise to find work for you, they are a scam. 

It is possible to find an employer to sponsor you, that's a 482 visa. There are requirements for that visa too and you have to meet them - employers can't sponsor just anybody they feel like.  When you're on a WHV, you hear a lot of rumours about people who've arrived on a WHV and managed to get sponsored.  Most of them are just rumours - it does happen, but only for a very small number of people, who have arrived on their WHV with existing qualifications and experience.

Yeah I'm pretty screwed then as I just about got the 65 points based on my 3 years experience whilst completing my apprenticeship (which doesn't count) and I will struggle on the english test as it's not a strong subject for me.

Yeah I know that the companies won't sponsor anyone and I'd have to work for them for 2 years alswell after should they do so.

Thanks you have answered all my questions

Looks like my dream is shattered then

 

Need to change my username I reckon

 

7 hours ago, paulhand said:

You need to score highly (IELTS 8/8/8/8 or equivalent) in a formal English test to get the 20 points. The British passport gets you over the line for minimum English skill to apply, but gives you zero points. 

Thankyou for your help, I doubt I'll get any high scores as it wasnt my strongest subject at school and dint get very good grades.

6 hours ago, Ausvisitor said:

As others have said, don't assume 20 points is a given, I've got a degree and a master's in English Language and the first time I took the test I narrowly missed getting. The superior English mark. Plenty of teachers etc. have also missed out on full marks, so just because English is your main language don't assume you'll get full points

Yeah I was worried about taking a test as I'm not good. I heard about the passport and native language thing and hoped I could serve round taking the exam this way, but clearly not.

6 hours ago, Lavers said:

Does the 65 points take into 5 points for state sponsorship and also do you get 10 points with the new point system for being single?

Also when did you finish your apprenticeship? 

No I didnt include them as this is the first I've heard about it

However I finished my apprenticeship September 2019. So like someone mentioned this will not count towards my actual years of experience

Edited April 7, 2020 by BrummieInOz
+

[Lavers]

1 hour ago, BrummieInOz said:

Yeah I'm pretty screwed then as I just about got the 65 points based on my 3 years experience whilst completing my apprenticeship (which doesn't count) and I will struggle on the english test as it's not a strong subject for me.

Yeah I know that the companies won't sponsor anyone and I'd have to work for them for 2 years alswell after should they do so.

Thanks you have answered all my questions

Looks like my dream is shattered then

 

Need to change my username I reckon

 

Thankyou for your help, I doubt I'll get any high scores as it wasnt my strongest subject at school and dint get very good grades.

Yeah I was worried about taking a test as I'm not good. I heard about the passport and native language thing and hoped I could serve round taking the exam this way, but clearly not.

No I didnt include them as this is the first I've heard about it

However I finished my apprenticeship September 2019. So like someone mentioned this will not count towards my actual years of experience

Hiya brummietryingforoz haha

You will get 10 points for being single I believe and also 5 points for being sponsored by a state on a 190 visa.

You wouldn't get any points for experience but with your age you would be on 55points I believe before even sitting your English test.

That leaves you 10points short, if you wait for your experience points to go up you will lose the same points as your age points drop, so either way it looks like you would have to sit the English test and get proficient which gives you 10 points.

All the while the visas are changing so anything could happen.

Best thing to do is get a migration agent to see what options you have, I used one and paid £50 (I think) but other do it for free I believe.

Sorry also you need to get your skill assessed and im not sure if you need a certain amount of experience before you can get that. Look on the Vetassess website

Edited April 7, 2020 by Lavers

[Marisawright]

6 hours ago, BrummieInOz said:

Yeah I'm pretty screwed then as I just about got the 65 points based on my 3 years experience whilst completing my apprenticeship (which doesn't count) and I will struggle on the english test as it's not a strong subject for me.

Looks like my dream is shattered then

 

No, it's not shattered, just delayed.  Get your 3 years experience.  Maybe get some help to improve your standard of English, because most people need those extra points from the English test, and I'd be surprised if you're an exception.  Then apply.

[Marisawright]

5 hours ago, Lavers said:

Hiya brummietryingforoz haha

You will get 10 points for being single I believe and also 5 points for being sponsored by a state on a 190 visa.

You wouldn't get any points for experience but with your age you would be on 55points I believe before even sitting your English test.

That leaves you 10points short, if you wait for your experience points to go up you will lose the same points as your age points drop, so either way it looks like you would have to sit the English test and get proficient which gives you 10 points.

I think it's important not to focus on the 65 points.  Even if he could manage to scrape together 65 points, all that would achieve is to allow him to apply for the visa.  Then his application would just sit in the queue forever until it expired, because 65 points is nowhere near enough.  He'll have spent all that money for nothing. 

[wrussell]

I had a client with a masters in English who had been teaching English at college level for 8 years and who failed to achieve IELTS  Academic 7, 7, 7, 7 in three attempts. In my experience IT candidates achieve the highest band scores and do not always select IELTS as their test of choice.

[Lavers]

6 hours ago, Marisawright said:

I think it's important not to focus on the 65 points.  Even if he could manage to scrape together 65 points, all that would achieve is to allow him to apply for the visa.  Then his application would just sit in the queue forever until it expired, because 65 points is nowhere near enough.  He'll have spent all that money for nothing. 

Would 65 points not achieve a 190?

[Ausvisitor]

2 hours ago, Lavers said:

Would 65 points not achieve a 190?

It certainly did in my case (or 65+ state sponsorship 5 points - so 70 points after sponsorship)

[Marisawright]

12 minutes ago, Ausvisitor said:

It certainly did in my case (or 65+ state sponsorship 5 points - so 70 points after sponsorship)

How long ago was that?

[Lavers]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

How long ago was that?

I got my 190visa 31st Dec 2019 after being invited to apply last Mar/Apr.

[Ausvisitor]

3 hours ago, Marisawright said:

How long ago was that?

Submitted EOI Apr 2019

INvite to apply 24 hours later

Sponsorsip approval 4 weeks later

Grant of 190 Dec 2019

[BrummieInOz]

If the application expires or gets rejected do you not get your money back ?!? 

[Marisawright]

33 minutes ago, BrummieInOz said:

If the application expires or gets rejected do you not get your money back ?!? 

No

[Rossmoyne]

Personally I don't think this is the right time to even think about emigratng to another country.   Let the world get through the china virus shit storm and then re-evaluate your situation.   Never give up on your dream, but consider that now is a time to consolidate and plan towards the dream.

[Joe/Rose]

No, you don't get your money back mate.

Its a lengthy process that involves spending lots of money.

The best thing you can do is, get in touch with the DUC Down under training centre in London, they will help you understand the process & you can see from the outset whether you stand a chance, before spending money.  

The problem in my eyes with your case is, post apprenticeship experience! I'm a time served industrial electrician with 12 years post apprenticeship experience, with instrumentation experience on water production sites, I'm absolutely sure that this played a factor in my state nomination for NSW, as like Ausvisitor above, I only had 65 points & submitted an EOI at the start of Sep 19, received an invite at the end of Sep 19, thats fairly quick when other electricians who submitted similar applications with 70, 75 & 80 points for the same type of visa, did not get invited. 

Its all a risk to be honest, there are no guarantees.

[BrummieInOz]

1 hour ago, Rossmoyne said:

Personally I don't think this is the right time to even think about emigratng to another country.   Let the world get through the china virus shit storm and then re-evaluate your situation.   Never give up on your dream, but consider that now is a time to consolidate and plan towards the dream.

Yeah I know. I wouldn't start any process until all this coronavirus situation was over. As I'd need a first aid certificate aswell. 

It's just that's the only thing on my mind right now, my future. And if to go back to my old job or try and go back to oz

1 hour ago, Joe/Rose said:

No, you don't get your money back mate.

Its a lengthy process that involves spending lots of money.

The best thing you can do is, get in touch with the DUC Down under training centre in London, they will help you understand the process & you can see from the outset whether you stand a chance, before spending money.  

The problem in my eyes with your case is, post apprenticeship experience! I'm a time served industrial electrician with 12 years post apprenticeship experience, with instrumentation experience on water production sites, I'm absolutely sure that this played a factor in my state nomination for NSW, as like Ausvisitor above, I only had 65 points & submitted an EOI at the start of Sep 19, received an invite at the end of Sep 19, thats fairly quick when other electricians who submitted similar applications with 70, 75 & 80 points for the same type of visa, did not get invited. 

Its all a risk to be honest, there are no guarantees.

That's abit worrying aswell, but I'd contact some centre or visa advisor before hand anyway like suggested.

I got my NVQ 2, 2 years ago and I believe I'm qualified from then but it's still only 2 years and even if it was 3 years I'd only have 60 points.

Theres no chance I'd pass the english. My only option would be to go back over when safe to do so and try my hardest to find a possible employer that is open to sponsoring me (long shot but seen jobs advertising willing to sponsor right candidate). 

I've got long family members but they are my moms cousins husbands relatives dont think they would count for family sponsorship.

Oh well, I'll keep looking at my other options before I contact and go back to my old company.. ie maybe a short college course to gain some extra points... or different visas available.

 

Again appreciate everyones input in this thread Helped me out alot

[Joe/Rose]

Oh, you only have an NVQ 2? Thats not sufficient, NVQ L3 is the minimum for a licensed trade I thought?

[Lavers]

9 minutes ago, Joe/Rose said:

Oh, you only have an NVQ 2? Thats not sufficient, NVQ L3 is the minimum for a licensed trade I thought?

It would be NVQ level 3 to pass your skill assessment, NVQ level 2 comes really early in your training (or at least it did for me as a Metal Fabricator/Boilermaker)