Borders closed to all non permanent residents or citizens

[paulhand]

4 hours ago, Marisawright said:

@paulhand, but they're not temporary either, they're provisional.   The advice on the Immi page is that people who can't travel on temporary visas will need to apply for a new one when the emergency is over, which would seem a bit harsh on 491 holders, who have to jump through the same hoops as a PR visa applicant.

Yes, we have been saying this to people here in terms of how the PR pathway works, but in law there are only permanent or temporary visas. A 491 is a “temporary visa permitting the holder to travel to, enter and remain in Australia for 5 years from the date of grant.” (my emphasis). So, it is not a permanent visa  

As the 491 (and 489) is valid for five years, this should at worst be a temporary delay for people recently granted their visas. IF someone has left it to the last minute (unlikely for a 489 or 491) that would be a different matter. How a delay in arrival might affect a future PR application 3 years down the line is pure speculation, so there would be little point in discussing that yet. 
 

[kazronicus]

looking at our immi account online (we're waiting on a 309/100 for my husband), it notes:

"If you are an immediate family member of either an Australian citizen or permanent resident, you may be eligible to apply for a Visitor Visa (Subclass 600)." 

This will be our route there, if there are still flights available, unless the 309/100 turns up soon. We haven't got an Australian passport for our baby*, and so will do the same for him. 

(*=TL;DR: I'm a citizen by descent and the baby won't be eligible for citizenship until we've lived in Australia for two years; my understanding is he'll need a child's visa)

[Quoll]

1 hour ago, kazronicus said:

looking at our immi account online (we're waiting on a 309/100 for my husband), it notes:

"If you are an immediate family member of either an Australian citizen or permanent resident, you may be eligible to apply for a Visitor Visa (Subclass 600)." 

This will be our route there, if there are still flights available, unless the 309/100 turns up soon. We haven't got an Australian passport for our baby*, and so will do the same for him. 

(*=TL;DR: I'm a citizen by descent and the baby won't be eligible for citizenship until we've lived in Australia for two years; my understanding is he'll need a child's visa)

IIRC you have to have been resident in Australia for 2 years before the child is born in order to pass down citizenship if you are a CBD.  He can become a citizen when his daddy does or after 10 years residence whichever is sooner. Is there a rush to get into Australia for you?

Edited March 21, 2020 by Quoll

[kazronicus]

3 minutes ago, Quoll said:

IIRC you have to have been resident in Australia for 2 years before the child is born in order to pass down citizenship if you are a CBD.  He can become a citizen when his daddy does or after 10 years residence whichever is sooner. Is there a rush to get into Australia for you?

The main rush is that airlines are all scaling back their flights (eg. Qantas who I believe plan on stopping their international flights at the end of the month); it will make it harder for returning citizens and residents to get back to Australia, if they haven't yet been able to return. 

[paulhand]

5 hours ago, Quoll said:

IIRC you have to have been resident in Australia for 2 years before the child is born in order to pass down citizenship if you are a CBD.  He can become a citizen when his daddy does or after 10 years residence whichever is sooner. Is there a rush to get into Australia for you?

No, it’s you must be a citizen when the child is born and have been lawfully present in Australia for total of 2 years at any time before their application is made. 

[Dorsetbrit]

Yes, we have been saying this to people here in terms of how the PR pathway works, but in law there are only permanent or temporary visas. A 491 is a “temporary visa permitting the holder to travel to, enter and remain in Australia for 5 years from the date of grant.” (my emphasis). So, it is not a permanent visa  
As the 491 (and 489) is valid for five years, this should at worst be a temporary delay for people recently granted their visas. IF someone has left it to the last minute (unlikely for a 489 or 491) that would be a different matter. How a delay in arrival might affect a future PR application 3 years down the line is pure speculation, so there would be little point in discussing that yet. 
 

Our 190 says permanent visa but still only valid for 5 years from how I understand it? We’ve not activated yet and want to go in September, it’s runs out in December so it’s a little scary, a lot can change in that time though.

[Marisawright]

46 minutes ago, Dorsetbrit said:

Our 190 says permanent visa but still only valid for 5 years from how I understand it? We’ve not activated yet and want to go in September, it’s runs out in December so it’s a little scary, a lot can change in that time though.

It's playing with words really.  The 190 is a permanent visa BUT your "travel facility" only lasts for 5 years. When it runs out, you lose your right to enter Australia - so although you still have a visa in theory, it's useless in practice. 

You can apply for a Resident Return Visa (RRV) to let you enter the country, but it's not automatic.  It's intended for people who have already settled in Australia and haven't got around to getting their citizenship yet.   To get a renewal, you have to prove you already have "strong ties to Australia".    If you've got no relatives and no home in Australia, that sounds daunting - but a job offer counts as a tie, so that's an option.

The RRV is normally for another 5 years, and you have to keep renewing it every 5 years forever (unless you get citizenship).  However if you aren't already settled in Australia, they'll probably give  you one year maximum - just enough time for you to make the move.  

In the current situation, they might be lenient about arrival deadlines, but we don't really know yet.

[NicF]

43 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

The RRV is normally for another 5 years, and you have to keep renewing it every 5 years forever (unless you get citizenship).  However if you aren't already settled in Australia, they'll probably give  you one year maximum - just enough time for you to make the move.  

Not true.  If you are living in Australia you only have to get (or renew) a RRV if you intend to travel outside of Australia.  It's perfectly possible to live here for 30 years and never get a RRV or citizenship if you never leave the country.

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, NicF said:

Not true.  If you are living in Australia you only have to get (or renew) a RRV if you intend to travel outside of Australia.  It's perfectly possible to live here for 30 years and never get a RRV or citizenship if you never leave the country.

That is strictly true - however I'd say any migrant who doesn't keep their RRV current is a fool, unless they've got no family left in their home country.  You never know when you might need to travel for a family occasion or emergency, and RRV's don't get granted in five minutes these days.

[paulhand]

8 hours ago, Marisawright said:

The 190 is a permanent visa BUT your "travel facility" only lasts for 5 years. When it runs out, you lose your right to enter Australia - so although you still have a visa in theory, it's useless in practice.

This is not true. If you are offshore when your permanent visa expires, it expires. You therefore do not have a visa, in theory, or in reality. The only scenario in which a permanent visa has indefinite expiry is when the holder remains in Australia. You can see the legal basis for this in s82(5) and s82(6) of the Migration Act, which is freely available online. 

[paulhand]

10 hours ago, Dorsetbrit said:

Our 190 says permanent visa but still only valid for 5 years from how I understand it? We’ve not activated yet and want to go in September, it’s runs out in December so it’s a little scary, a lot can change in that time though.

“runs out” - do you mean “must not arrive after” or “first entry by” date?

[starlight7]

We know quite a lot of ex pat British people who have never bothered to take out citizenship and still travel on British passports. Wonder what would happen if they tried to get back from overseas just now? 

[Marisawright]

17 minutes ago, starlight7 said:

We know quite a lot of ex pat British people who have never bothered to take out citizenship and still travel on British passports. Wonder what would happen if they tried to get back from overseas just now? 

They would have to be permanent residents, surely?  

[Nemesis]

19 minutes ago, starlight7 said:

We know quite a lot of ex pat British people who have never bothered to take out citizenship and still travel on British passports. Wonder what would happen if they tried to get back from overseas just now? 

If they are permanent residents they will be treated the same as citizens. 

[Marisawright]

On 24/03/2020 at 17:24, paulhand said:

This is not true. If you are offshore when your permanent visa expires, it expires. You therefore do not have a visa, in theory, or in reality. The only scenario in which a permanent visa has indefinite expiry is when the holder remains in Australia. You can see the legal basis for this in s82(5) and s82(6) of the Migration Act, which is freely available online. 

I was trying to keep it simple. If you hold a 190 and you stay onshore, it never expires