Desperate for advice on PMV and Partner visas (routes and info needed)

[Thewanderingwonder]

Hello all,

I've just completed (in November) my two years WHV(417) I wanted to apply for a 3rd year, so that I could spend more time with my new partner but sadly, I am too old (32)

I've now been back in the U.K for nearly 3 months and I'm exploring all options to make sure we can be together again with the least possible hurdles, as soon as possible, as being apart is a nightmare, I'm also currently unemployed and struggling to find work here.

• She's an Australian Citizen by birth and I'm a UK citizen by birth and descent, we've already discussed our dreams and our future together at length and have been since a short time after we met, we truly love each other and want to be together and start a family but (as with most unfortunate people on this forum) the beaurocracy isn't making it easy.
• We met in July 2019 and started dating pretty much straight away, about a month or so later I moved in with her and we were living together until the day that I left (22nd Nov), however, we have no proof of this apart from text messages saying basic stuff like "I'll be at home at "x" time baby, can you get the shopping" etc... and telephone logs.
• We didn't share any bills or rent on paper, even though we quite obviously shared expenses and money to go towards those things and shopping/ petrol etc. I'm the kind of person that likes to use cash and rarely uses a card unless necessary due to lack of readies. Technically, due to her renting a property that is on the same land as her mother's, there hasn't been an actual tenancy agreement signed by her with the landlord (we're looking into this, we may be able to get one drawn up).
• Technically we've been together for around 8 months now, but in the grand scheme of things we don't have a lot of evidence to support this. We don't have a joint bank account, or shared bills, or tenancy, car, nothing really and now can't, especially because the visas that exist for me to visit (tourist/ETA) state that I couldn't work in the time I was there and if I'm not working, how am I eligible to pay bills? Right?
• We both have friends in Australia, but only one of mine have met  her(a very breif hello) and none of hers have met me bar one, which was the same type of breif introduction. We're the kind of people that really enjoy our own and each other's company and have a very small circle of friends, so we tend to stick to ourselves most of the time. I've met her mum and her brother, but her father passed away some years ago and her sister, well, we don't speak to her sister for reasons that I won't go into.... My friends back here in the U.K I barely speak to, none of them have met her and only a small few even know she exists, this isn't because we're trying to keep the relationship "on the DL", I'm just a solitary guy and a lot of my friends have moved away, have families, or I just don't interact with them, as our values don't align anymore....
• Neither of us have social networking profiles at all. This is by choice, we really don't need or want it and have no plans to start up new profiles at all. We're both living wonderful lives without it, so the option for social proof of that angle is well out of the window...
• I have no skills or qualifications that fall into any of the skilled workers or shortages categories that I can provide enough substantial evidence for, I know that I can do anything and over the years have literally done most types of work you could think of apart from the ones that require degrees, my only real skill is playing guitar, but try convincing a government that my skills are good enough to warrant a visa...Yeah right. She has a job that she can't walk away from to see me in the UK and she's waiting to be taken on permanently so that she is eligible for certain things (home loans etc.) for us to make use of in our future together, so the only option right now is for me to come to Aus.

We're trying to weigh up options for visas at the moment, we've discussed our long term goals and engagement/marriage and we're both on the same page with everything, if we could find a way to make it all happen that would be a dream come true for both of us.

Our main concerns at the moment are:

A. We don't have enough evidence to support applying for a PMV straight away and we're really unsure about the whole "must be onshore when applied/granted" and "must be offshore when applied/granted" scenario and would hate to be out by a day or two either side of this if I was to go to Aus on a tourist/visitor/ETA visa, after spending close to $8000.

B. Neither of us, at this current time, has said $8000 to even pay for the PMV, this isn't to say that the money can't be sourced or made in the next few months, so if the PMV was the better option then we'd be able to get it.

C. If I came to visit on a tourist visa (to sort out all of the paperwork, statements, proof and logistics for the PMV) and only had 3 months of time, it would cost me close to a quarter of what the PMV costs just to fly in and out for that time, once, about £1000, let alone having to go back to Aus again after a period of time for another 3 months. There's no way I could uphold a job, even if I got one today, that would allow me to take such periods of leave then return to work...Money and work is a real issue with all of this.

D. Let's say for arguments sake, we had the money and were going for the PMV, we don't have the de-facto requirement of 12 months of living together and the current tourist visa conditions would make that an impossibility even if I landed in Australia and we jumped right into a tenancy agreement on that day. I have heard however that a registration of civil partnership with the QLD government can help with this. (QLD is where we want to live and where she currently does, I spent most of my time here in my second year too, so have friends there). I'd like to know if this is true.

E. Putting all cards on the table (hypothetically), I have the money for a visitor visa, the PMV and some change to stay alive during my visit and have booked a visitor visa to Aus. During my time on the visitor visa (depending on length granted) could I:- propose (I understand they don't like you doing this before applying for the PMV for a reason that I can't get my head around), then register the civil partnership with the QLD Govt. Then apply for the PMV with supporting evidence, hoping that it will be granted whilst I'm still on soil. OR am I better off visiting on whatever visa, then registering the relationship in person with my partner, then going back to the UK (which I really want to avoid), then applying for the PMV from there and providing the evidence and hoping for the best?

I'm so sorry I've turned this into an essay but I really need help at this point.

I'm so very, very confused and astounded that it takes this much to just be in love and start a family in the modern world, but I know I'm not the only one that's had to go through this and I applaud you all for doing so, I also want to wish anyone out there reading this who is planning the same the very best of luck and I hope you are successful at making your lives together.

ANY help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you again for reading,

Matt.

 

[paulhand]

As you say, you’re pretty confused by some of this ... 

- You MUST propose before you can apply for a Prospective Marriage Visa - but you cannot be married before it is granted  

- You MUST be offshore when you apply for a PMV (and when it is granted)
 

I suggest you get some professional advice if you want to go down any of the routes you are considering. 
 

Have you looked at whether your Partner is eligible for a UK working holiday visa so she can come to the UK to be with you and you can then address the Australian visa issues over time?

[wrussell]

If you apply for a 300 and wed before it is granted and let immigration know, you will cop this:

*****************************************************************************

As you have married your sponsor before your current Prospective Marriage visa
application has been finalised, you are taken to have also applied for a Partner
(Provisional) (Class UF) visa and a Partner (Migrant) (Class BC) visa on the day we received notice of the marriage. If you have not done so already, please provide a copy of your marriage certificate and advice in writing that you wish to withdraw your application for a Prospective Marriage visa. If you do not state in writing that you would like to withdraw your Prospective Marriage visa application, it will be refused. This information must be scanned and uploaded to your ImmiAccount.

*****************************************************************************

If you do not let them know, you are likely to cop far worse when they find out.

What could be worse than having a visa refused? Having one granted.

[wrussell]

Be careful about withdrawing a 300 before you are requested to, otherwise the request to run a 309 might be overlooked.

Edited February 26, 2020 by wrussell

[Marisawright]

Two experienced agents have answered you so take their advice seriously. 

Forget applying for a de facto partner visa, because Immigration doesn't care about your reasons why you've got no evidence - the fact is, you've got almost no evidence.  So that's off the table.

The Prospective Marriage Visa is an option BUT as the agents point out, it's a Prospective marriage visa - which means you're planning to marry in Australia and that's why you want the visa. So you need to get engaged, then apply for the visa, then wait for the visa to be granted, then  travel to Australia and get married. 

If you get married before the visa is granted, you lose the visa.

Sadly, the reason it's all so difficult is that so many people have faked relationships so they can use the partner visa as a way of fraudulently getting a visa - Australia isn't the only country that has that problem, it's a global thing. 

[MaggieMay24]

A PMV (Prospective Marriage Visa) does not have any requirement that you live together or have a de facto relationship at all, let alone 12 months.  Instead you must provide evidence that:

- you're both over the age of 18

- you've met in person

- you have a genuine relationship and intend to have a married relationship after the visa is granted and you marry.

I'm not sure if you need to also provide evidence that you're free to marry (i.e. neither of you is currently legally married) but of course you need to be free to marry within the 9 months of the valid period of the 300 visa.

Even if money is tight, it would be worthwhile to have a consultation with a migration agent to help you both get your ducks in a row for this visa as well as the next steps (820/801) once you do marry.  They may also be able to offer some alternative approaches you may not have already considered.

[Marisawright]

Sorry, I  skimmed over the original post and didn't notice your mention of needing 12 months evidence for the PMV.  As MaggieMay says, you don't need it.   You need the 12 months evidence if you're applying for a de facto visa. 

You also seem to be very confused about the whole onshore/offshore thing.  If you're going for the PMV - which looks like your only option - then you've got to apply for it while you're still in the UK, and then wait in the UK for it to be granted. It doesn't matter where your girlfriend is at the time. 

I understand that means a longish separation while you wait - but if your love can't survive that, then it's not going to last a lifetime either, is it?

[Thewanderingwonder]

Thanks so much for the great information everyone!

We're definitely going to seek the help of a migration agent, but we would like to have as much info as possible first, so that we can get our heads around the whole thing and decide on the logistics of it all.

Just to clarify:

• We don't need 12months of evidence of living together (de-facto) to apply for the PMV, we just need the above mentioned criteria to be met before applying.
• We get engaged, then apply for the PMV, then wait for the visa to be granted offshore, then travel to Australia and get married.
• I can't (and must not) be on Aus soil when the visa is applied for OR granted, so that means waiting a fair few months before I can go back to Aus to marry and having the money to buy a last minute flight to do so. (Will we be notified in due time of it being granted, so that we can make sure we're offshore when it is in case I do need to visit her in Aus in the "decision period"? Does my partner (Aus citizen) have to be offshore with me also at this time?)
• As soon as the PMV is granted I have full working rights when I land in Aus.

Another question is, when we're on the PMV and have married, if we then after the marriage don't have the "12 months living together" evidence, which we wouldn't as we'd only have been living together about 8/9 months, will that be seen as negative when applying for the de facto visa? If so, is there a bridging visa that is granted until we can gather enough evidence to provide? I've heard that you need to have the bulk(if not all) of evidence already in hand when you submit your application firstly and it's best if they don't have to ask you for more, is this correct?

As far as the idea of "registering your relationship with the QLD Govt." in order to not need the 12 months de-facto evidence for Partnership visa is concerned, I have no idea how that fits in or why it is suggested for some people, please clarify why this would be an option, or if it's even needed once we are married. ( I know that none of you on here have suggested this, it's something I've heard from a youtube video ran by a migration agency, I just want to cover all bases).

I thank you all sincerely again for your advice.

Matt.

 

 

 

 

[Marisawright]

32 minutes ago, Thewanderingwonder said:

Thanks so much for the great information everyone!

We're definitely going to seek the help of a migration agent, but we would like to have as much info as possible first, so that we can get our heads around the whole thing and decide on the logistics of it all.

Just to clarify:

You don't need 12months of evidence of living together (de-facto) to apply for the PMV, you just need the above mentioned criteria to be met before applying. CORRECT

You get engaged to each other, then apply for the PMV, then YOU (not your partner) wait for the visa to be granted offshore, then YOU travel to Australia and get married to her.

You can't (and must not) be on Aus soil when the visa is applied for OR granted. CORRECT

Does your partner (Aus citizen) have to be offshore with you also at this time? - NO, she never needs to be offshore at all.

 

Another question is, when we're on the PMV and have married, if we then after the marriage don't have the "12 months living together" evidence, which we wouldn't as we'd only have been living together about 8/9 months, will that be seen as negative when applying for the de facto visa?   YOU DO NOT APPLY FOR A DE FACTO VISA AFTER YOU'RE MARRIED.  A DE FACTO VISA IS ONLY FOR A COUPLE WHO ARE LIVING TOGETHER BUT UNMARRIED.

As far as the idea of "registering your relationship with the QLD Govt."...again, this applies to de facto (living together unmarried) couples only.

[wrussell]

It can be noted that, for some years, delegates have increasingly been asking (improperly) for prospective marriage applicants to provide the level of information required of de facto applicants.