Registration of UK child in Australia complications

[GeeTee]

Hey guys.

I'm in a very complex situation and am looking for specific advice. I won't bore everyone with the whole long story but i need certain questions answered. If you'd like the whole story pls DM me.

What is the procedure with regard to registering a child born to two UK parents? The mother is currently on a tourist visa which expires a month after the birth.

What happens if the father is not able to be there for this process and she doesn't want him on the birth certificate?

If she decides to remain in Australia on a skilled work visa, is there any way he can fight this as in the UK every child has the right to both parents?

Would any court proceedings happen in Australia or in the UK?

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

George x

[Ausvisitor]

26 minutes ago, GeeTee said:

Hey guys.

I'm in a very complex situation and am looking for specific advice. I won't bore everyone with the whole long story but i need certain questions answered. If you'd like the whole story pls DM me.

What is the procedure with regard to registering a child born to two UK parents? The mother is currently on a tourist visa which expires a month after the birth.

What happens if the father is not able to be there for this process and she doesn't want him on the birth certificate?

If she decides to remain in Australia on a skilled work visa, is there any way he can fight this as in the UK every child has the right to both parents?

Would any court proceedings happen in Australia or in the UK?

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

George x

The child is present in Australia and the mother is a resident of Australia - this is important but doesn't answer your question.

Because both parents are UK citizens (and not AUS citizens) you could bring action in either country. However whatever happens Australia is never going to repatriate a child that is residing legally in its borders. Of course if the mother and child visit the UK whether or not UK border control would allow the child to leave the UK if there was a court order for UK residence is a different matter.

Its complex (as you said) but it is also pretty simple, if the child is born in Australia and is living there legally with a parent who is also living there legally, the chance of that child being made to go and live in the UK is about as close to zero as it is possible to get

[GeeTee]

OK, understood. Based on my own research, both countries' family law states that every child has the right to have both parents in his/her life. How would this factor in?

[Ausvisitor]

55 minutes ago, GeeTee said:

OK, understood. Based on my own research, both countries' family law states that every child has the right to have both parents in his/her life. How would this factor in?

It's simple the child won't be made to move, so like most things "possession is 9/10ths of the law". The child is in Oz, so the judgement will be that both parents can have equal rights to visitation (if indeed they do grant equal rights) but in Australia and both of them would need to agree if the child was to leave the country.

Australia will never make a legally settled resident leave the country whilst they stay within the agreeements of their visa

You however have a choice, you can apply to stay in Australia if you want to be involved

[Jon the Hat]

Ths is clearly a messy situation that might be better resolved with some mediation before you go down the legal route.  Worth a try given there is a child involved?

[Tulip1]

2 hours ago, Ausvisitor said:

The child is present in Australia and the mother is a resident of Australia - this is important but doesn't answer your question.

Because both parents are UK citizens (and not AUS citizens) you could bring action in either country. However whatever happens Australia is never going to repatriate a child that is residing legally in its borders. Of course if the mother and child visit the UK whether or not UK border control would allow the child to leave the UK if there was a court order for UK residence is a different matter.

Its complex (as you said) but it is also pretty simple, if the child is born in Australia and is living there legally with a parent who is also living there legally, the chance of that child being made to go and live in the UK is about as close to zero as it is possible to get

The mother isn’t actually resident in Oz, she’s on a soon to be expired tourist visa. Is giving birth whilst on holiday treated as legally resident? I would doubt it. 

[Tulip1]

2 hours ago, GeeTee said:

Hey guys.

I'm in a very complex situation and am looking for specific advice. I won't bore everyone with the whole long story but i need certain questions answered. If you'd like the whole story pls DM me.

What is the procedure with regard to registering a child born to two UK parents? The mother is currently on a tourist visa which expires a month after the birth.

What happens if the father is not able to be there for this process and she doesn't want him on the birth certificate?

If she decides to remain in Australia on a skilled work visa, is there any way he can fight this as in the UK every child has the right to both parents?

Would any court proceedings happen in Australia or in the UK?

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

George x

Every child does have the right to both parents but that’s very loose as you can’t chop the kid in half and you can’t force a women who has legal residency somewhere to leave that country. Right now I can’t see she has residency but as you mention she could get a skill visa if she is able to and I’m not sure whether that would make any difference.  I’d be very surprised if any court in the land would remove a baby from its mother and send it to the UK to be with you. Right or wrong that won’t happen. If she remains there I assume your only option would be to see the child when you can which I appreciate is not good. You’ve asked for advice but I doubt you can get that on a chat forum. I’m only saying what appears common sense to me, of course they won’t take the baby off her and send it to you. I honestly think you need to speak with a solicitor. Best of luck.

[Amber Snowball]

8 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

The mother isn’t actually resident in Oz, she’s on a soon to be expired tourist visa. Is giving birth whilst on holiday treated as legally resident? I would doubt it. 

This was my thought. Can she just ‘decide’ to stay on a skilled work visa? If she can why isn’t everyone doing it? Can’t be that easy, surely.

[Tulip1]

Just now, Amber Snowball said:

This was my thought. Can she just ‘decide’ to stay on a skilled work visa? If she can why isn’t everyone doing it? Can’t be that easy, surely.

Agree and you can’t just go to a country as a tourist and have a baby and think you can stay there, it won’t happen. She may be eligible for a skilled visa but she will have to apply through the usual channels I’m sure. Not exactly easy when you’re about to pop!

[Tulip1]

2 hours ago, Ausvisitor said:

The child is present in Australia and the mother is a resident of Australia - this is important but doesn't answer your question.

Because both parents are UK citizens (and not AUS citizens) you could bring action in either country. However whatever happens Australia is never going to repatriate a child that is residing legally in its borders. Of course if the mother and child visit the UK whether or not UK border control would allow the child to leave the UK if there was a court order for UK residence is a different matter.

Its complex (as you said) but it is also pretty simple, if the child is born in Australia and is living there legally with a parent who is also living there legally, the chance of that child being made to go and live in the UK is about as close to zero as it is possible to get

The mother isn’t resident in Australia? She’s on holiday.

[Amber Snowball]

Just now, Tulip1 said:

Agree and you can’t just go to a country as a tourist and have a baby and think you can stay there, it won’t happen. She may be eligible for a skilled visa but she will have to apply through the usual channels I’m sure. Not exactly easy when you’re about to pop!

Agreed.

Whilst there are obviously lots of details we don’t have I cannot see how mum can just stay in Oz. 

Yes she can register the birth without Dad’s name on it. In answer to another question.

[Ausvisitor]

44 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

The mother isn’t resident in Australia? She’s on holiday.

I agree but the person's question was if she stayed in Australia on a skilled visa.

If she did (I'm not questioning how or if that's possible) then she would be a resident.

I was answering the question posed, and not trying to discern information that isn't present or available

[GeeTee]

2 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

Every child does have the right to both parents but that’s very loose as you can’t chop the kid in half and you can’t force a women who has legal residency somewhere to leave that country. Right now I can’t see she has residency but as you mention she could get a skill visa if she is able to and I’m not sure whether that would make any difference.  I’d be very surprised if any court in the land would remove a baby from its mother and send it to the UK to be with you. Right or wrong that won’t happen. If she remains there I assume your only option would be to see the child when you can which I appreciate is not good. You’ve asked for advice but I doubt you can get that on a chat forum. I’m only saying what appears common sense to me, of course they won’t take the baby off her and send it to you. I honestly think you need to speak with a solicitor. Best of luck.

I want to be clear that I don't want to take a baby away from her mother, I just want to pursue my legal rights to be in my daughter's life.

It's up for debate at the moment whether or not she'll be offered a work visa as she'll have a four week old baby with no support from family or me (the father) as my visa has expired. I'll support our daughter financially through child maintenance but I can't afford to pay her rent like i was when I was in Australia and we were still together.

If she decides not to put my name on the birth certificate, I can get a parental responsibility order through our courts and then according to law have a say in where she is raised. I also want to point out that I'm not doing this to be mean or vindictive or out of anything other than concern for the wellbeing of my daughter.

Thanks to everyone who commented so far. Gx

[ali]

37 minutes ago, GeeTee said:

I want to be clear that I don't want to take a baby away from her mother, I just want to pursue my legal rights to be in my daughter's life.

It's up for debate at the moment whether or not she'll be offered a work visa as she'll have a four week old baby with no support from family or me (the father) as my visa has expired. I'll support our daughter financially through child maintenance but I can't afford to pay her rent like i was when I was in Australia and we were still together.

If she decides not to put my name on the birth certificate, I can get a parental responsibility order through our courts and then according to law have a say in where she is raised. I also want to point out that I'm not doing this to be mean or vindictive or out of anything other than concern for the wellbeing of my daughter.

Thanks to everyone who commented so far. Gx

I think the key will be whether your ex partner is able to stay in Aus or not.  Your child will not be an Australian citizen despite being born in Aus as neither of you were on a PR visa.  It will also depend on what type of visa your ex is being potentially sponsored for (as this may only be on the short term list) - she may very well have to return to the UK anyway.  Your best bet will be to consult a family lawyer in either country, but likely if your ex does manage to secure sponsorship, that you will have to utilise tourist visa's to visit.

[GeeTee]

1 minute ago, ali said:

I think the key will be whether your ex partner is able to stay in Aus or not.  Your child will not be an Australian citizen despite being born in Aus as neither of you were on a PR visa.  It will also depend on what type of visa your ex is being potentially sponsored for (as this may only be on the short term list) - she may very well have to return to the UK anyway.  Your best bet will be to consult a family lawyer in either country, but likely if your ex does manage to secure sponsorship, that you will have to utilise tourist visa's to visit.

Thanks Ali,

She'd be on a temporary 2 year work visa (unskilled i think).

[Marisawright]

15 minutes ago, GeeTee said:

Thanks Ali,

She'd be on a temporary 2 year work visa (unskilled i think).

There is no such thing as an unskilled work visa.  If she's under 30 there is a Working Holiday Visa, but she won't be eligible for that once she has a child.    

Employers can't sponsor just anyone.  They can only sponsor IF the person's occupation is on a government list of eligible occupations AND the person has the qualifications and experience specified on that list.    It's an expensive and complex process for the employer and many employers won't do it any more, unless they are really desperate for staff. She would have to be very lucky to find an employer in such a short time, especially when she's heavily pregnant (which would be a disincentive for many employers). 

Of course, she could simply overstay her visa and there are employers who would employ her cash-in-hand (in a restaurant for instance).  Her difficulty would be childcare, as it's very expensive and would likely cost more than she's earning. 

On the face of it, it seems very unlikely that she will be able to stay in Australia and as noted, her child doesn't become Australian just because it's born there.  

[Toots]

2 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

There is no such thing as an unskilled work visa.  If she's under 30 there is a Working Holiday Visa, but she won't be eligible for that once she has a child.    

Employers can't sponsor just anyone.  They can only sponsor IF the person's occupation is on a government list of eligible occupations AND the person has the qualifications and experience specified on that list.    It's an expensive and complex process for the employer and many employers won't do it any more, unless they are really desperate for staff. She would have to be very lucky to find an employer in such a short time, especially when she's heavily pregnant (which would be a disincentive for many employers). 

Of course, she could simply overstay her visa and there are employers who would employ her cash-in-hand (in a restaurant for instance).  Her difficulty would be childcare, as it's very expensive and would likely cost more than she's earning. 

On the face of it, it seems very unlikely that she will be able to stay in Australia and as noted, her child doesn't become Australian just because it's born there.  

Quite honestly it would be best for Mum, Dad and baby if both Mum and Dad went back to the UK.  There is no happy ending to this story if they stay in Australia.  Finding a decent legal job for Mum and the prohibitive cost of childcare here just doesn't make sense to me if she wants to stay.

[Wonderingaloud]

Just out of interest how long was/is the tourist visa? 3 months? The longer ones are usually if you have family in Australia, which doesn’t sound like the case. If so, did she visit Australia when she was 32 weeks pregnant? 
At that gestation presumably you’d know the baby would be born onshore? 
 

This has little bearing on the main issue but I’m intrigued as to what the background is here. It might throw up something relevant. 
 

Based on the info above I agree with others. To stay in the country legally she’ll need to find a work sponsor right now in order to have everything lodged before her tourist visa ends. Being heavily pregnant, that’s unlikely. Also the skilled sponsored visas require you to work full time in the occupation (I think) and with no access to any government subsidies for childcare etc its hardly worth working, unless she’s uniquely skilled and can find a super high paying job... What does she do out of interest?

It sounds very messy- why she would want to stay in Australia with no support etc. Having a baby will not help her to stay in Australia, it will hinder it significantly (if that was the main motivation for birthing the baby onshore).

Best of luck- are you in contact with her? 

[Marisawright]

Reading the post again, it seems clear the relationship has broken down to the point where the mother wants nothing to do with the father - she won't even put his name on the birth certificate.     Maybe her desire to stay in Australia is part of her efforts to keep him out of her life?   People can do very irrational and bitter things in the aftermath of a breakup, so one can only hope she changes her mind at some point.

I think the OP has a battle ahead of him, but he'd be wise to wait until his ex has returned to the UK and to have that fight in the UK courts.  He could consult a British lawyer now to prepare the case, as I don't think it will be long until she returns.  It would be a waste of money to launch any kind of Australian proceedings because her chances of staying in Australia until the case is concluded are somewhere between remote and none.  

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Marisawright

[rammygirl]

When exactly does her tourist visa expire and when is the baby due?

Timescale is important.  She may be able to extend the tourist visa because of the birth, but they may well apply a no further stay clause.

Preparing a visa application with skill assessments etc takes weeks/months if she cannot lodge an application before the tourist visa expires she will have to leave.

[GeeTee]

Hey guys. thanks again for your comments.

The baby is due April 14th. Her tourist visa expires May 14th. She isn't giving me any information about her plans or the baby despite my regular requests.

A brief history: we were on working holiday visas, we were planning on moving over and settling eventually. 6 months into the trip, found out we were to have a baby, decided to go through with it, and so I sought out a sponsorship position as a chef. This was all in place to happen. During that time our relationship broke down to the point of no return, despite both our best efforts. We were incompatible. Despite therapy, numerous attempts at communication, etc. it was too difficult to maintain the relationship. Nobody cheated or did anything horrible, we were just different people. She kicked me out of our house, I was homeless, still expected to work and pay her rent. Throughout this time period (over Christmas) she still maintained that she needed me to put her on my visa as my partner as it was her dream to be in Australia and 'not mine'.

Long story short, my boss found out, he wasn't OK with that, and terminated the offer, so I had to return home. Since then she's been insisting that she stay and I have to pay for everything. Things have deteriorated to the point where she won't speak to me about what she's planning. She thinks I'm trying to 'take away her freedom' and that's why she doesn't wane me on the birth certificate, so I have no rights when it comes to decision making.

She works in a plant nursery. She told me she can't afford childcare, I told her that I won't pay for childcare as it makes no sense to pay not to have access to my daughter.

If she returns to the UK I can finish my teacher training, she can focus on being a new mum and have mine and her families support, she can get more qualifications and in 3 years we can reapply for good jobs which grant PR and move over when our daughter can appreciate her new environment.

Thanks for reading. Gx

[Toots]

1 hour ago, GeeTee said:

Hey guys. thanks again for your comments.

The baby is due April 14th. Her tourist visa expires May 14th. She isn't giving me any information about her plans or the baby despite my regular requests.

A brief history: we were on working holiday visas, we were planning on moving over and settling eventually. 6 months into the trip, found out we were to have a baby, decided to go through with it, and so I sought out a sponsorship position as a chef. This was all in place to happen. During that time our relationship broke down to the point of no return, despite both our best efforts. We were incompatible. Despite therapy, numerous attempts at communication, etc. it was too difficult to maintain the relationship. Nobody cheated or did anything horrible, we were just different people. She kicked me out of our house, I was homeless, still expected to work and pay her rent. Throughout this time period (over Christmas) she still maintained that she needed me to put her on my visa as my partner as it was her dream to be in Australia and 'not mine'.

Long story short, my boss found out, he wasn't OK with that, and terminated the offer, so I had to return home. Since then she's been insisting that she stay and I have to pay for everything. Things have deteriorated to the point where she won't speak to me about what she's planning. She thinks I'm trying to 'take away her freedom' and that's why she doesn't wane me on the birth certificate, so I have no rights when it comes to decision making.

She works in a plant nursery. She told me she can't afford childcare, I told her that I won't pay for childcare as it makes no sense to pay not to have access to my daughter.

If she returns to the UK I can finish my teacher training, she can focus on being a new mum and have mine and her families support, she can get more qualifications and in 3 years we can reapply for good jobs which grant PR and move over when our daughter can appreciate her new environment.

Thanks for reading. Gx

 

It would seem she isn't able to face reality.  What on earth must her parents in the UK think of this debacle?  Are they even aware of what's going on in her life?  Maybe they will talk some sense into her.  She should really fly home before she is too heavily pregnant.

[Marisawright]

@GeeTee, I feel for you, as it seems she's one of those people who's got so caught up in the "Aussie dream",  she's refusing to face reality.  It's not uncommon.  I met many such WHV'ers people when I was working.   The WHV community is full of tales of people who managed to get sponsorship and then PR - most of them complete myths - and they get sucked into that. 

They would badger their manager to sponsor them and if they were a good employee, the manager would agree - probably thinking it couldn't be that hard.  Usually, I was the one who had to tell them it wasn't possible because the occupation wasn't eligible or they didn't have the necessary qualifications, and then I got accused of being a nasty bitch who was out to get them.  Usually they just couldn't accept they weren't eligible. 

I can see that it's a tough situation. If you don't pay for childcare, that will enrage her even further and loses you any chance of her cooperating with you - so maybe you should consider paying for it.  At the same time, if she's on a tourist visa then she shouldn't be working at all.  An anonymous phone call to Immigration would result in her being deported and she need never know you initiated it...

[ali]

I think you have to withdraw any financial support now, plan a case for when she comes back to the UK and provide financial assistance when they return to the UK. 

[MaggieMay24]

I think this is a family law question, not an immigration one.  You'd be better off speaking with a family law attorney.  As far as giving your ex some support, my suggestion would be to contact her parents and let them know you're more than willing to financially support your child but not based on your ex's demands and her refusal to have you declared on the birth certificate.  Maybe her parents can talk some sense into her.