Visa 189 job seek

[elboras]

Hi all,

I am interested in applying for Visa 189. I am confident I can get around 75-85 points (test pass mark is 65) as I have relevant working experience, PhD, English certification, working experience in Australia under a visa 457, etc. Most importantly my profession is Chemist and it is included in the Skilled Occupations list for the 189.

I was wondering if anyone can share experience seeking jobs from overseas with a visa 189 granted. I know this might seem that I am not committed with the decision to moving to Australia but I have a 2 year old kid and quitting my job and relocate to Australia with no income will be too much of a risk.

Another question, does anybody know how often is Skilled Occupations list updated? or when was the last update? I do not want Chemist to be removed.

Thanks in advance

[paulhand]

The current invitation threshold for 189 invitations is 90 points, so you’re unlikely to get an invite at present. It’s generally much harder to get a job If you are not here, but you may have the contacts if you worked here previously.  

[elboras]

Thanks Paul,

 

Yes, I have just read that in January 2020 is 90. I noticed that it varies a lot each month. In case I want to try anyway, would you recommend to take the English test and the skill assessment before submitting the expression of interest? Or should I wait for the invitation before doing it?

Best

[DukeNinja]

14 minutes ago, elboras said:

the skill assessment before submitting the expression of interest?

You might want to read through the minutiae of the process (explained clearly) on the immigration website, as it appears that you may have missed some key information.

[paulhand]

17 minutes ago, elboras said:

Thanks Paul,

 

Yes, I have just read that in January 2020 is 90. I noticed that it varies a lot each month. In case I want to try anyway, would you recommend to take the English test and the skill assessment before submitting the expression of interest? Or should I wait for the invitation before doing it?

Best

You must have everything in place at time of invitation - so effectively when you submit. If you don’t you will get a refusal. 

[elboras]

So, I have to spend around 1000 AUD to get a Skill Assessment (VETASESS) and 300 Euros on the IELST beforehand. If I do not get the invitation afterwards it will be for nothing. 

[Marisawright]

34 minutes ago, elboras said:

So, I have to spend around 1000 AUD to get a Skill Assessment (VETASESS) and 300 Euros on the IELST beforehand. If I do not get the invitation afterwards it will be for nothing. 

That's exactly right. 

[Ausvisitor]

46 minutes ago, elboras said:

So, I have to spend around 1000 AUD to get a Skill Assessment (VETASESS) and 300 Euros on the IELST beforehand. If I do not get the invitation afterwards it will be for nothing. 

That's how it works. We (as the applicant) see it as unfair because we need to spend a bunch of cash before knowing if we will ever get an invite.

However look at it from the other point of view (the immigration team and other applicants in the queue).

If you were not required to pay to put these things in place in advance the amount of people applying will increase hugely (after all why not apply and see what happens if it is free). You then get an invite at 90 points so the immigration team spend time/money evaluating your case only to determine that you don't have 90 points anyway (because your language skills aren't up to scratch for instance) and so they waste their time (salaries) and refuse you anyway. In the meantime someone with a valid claim at 85 points has been overlooked for the more "qualified" 90 point applicant.

[Ausvisitor]

55 minutes ago, elboras said:

So, I have to spend around 1000 AUD to get a Skill Assessment (VETASESS) and 300 Euros on the IELST beforehand. If I do not get the invitation afterwards it will be for nothing. 

Be thankful you aren't a plumber or other licensed tradesman the VETASSESS fees for these occupations run north of $5,500 as there are interviews and exams to take that are punitively expense

 

Also many people don't get IELTS in their first attempt, there are english teachers and people with higher degress (MA, PHd) in English Lanaguage on this forum that have had to take the test more than once - it's the same fee each time...

Edited February 18, 2020 by Ausvisitor

[elboras]

I am 35 and have a PhD (45 points). I believe I have 8 years of relevant experience (15 points). 6 years as a chemist and 3 years as a regulatory affairs (related field). In addition I have 2 years as a postdoc in chemistry in Australia (5 points). My partner has very similar working experience (10 points). With a proficient English that will make 85-90 points (I took IELST and CAE in 2014 so I need to do it again). Anyway, that is my opinion but if I am wrong I wont have any chances. Is there any way I can confirm that my working experience outside Australia will give me 15 points? 

Edited February 18, 2020 by elboras

[Ausvisitor]

32 minutes ago, elboras said:

I am 35 and have a PhD (45 points). I believe I have 8 years of relevant experience (15 points). 6 years as a chemist and 3 years as a regulatory affairs (related field). In addition I have 2 years as a postdoc in chemistry in Australia (5 points). My partner has very similar working experience (10 points). With a proficient English that will make 85-90 points (I took IELST and CAE in 2014 so I need to do it again). Anyway, that is my opinion but if I am wrong I wont have any chances. Is there any way I can confirm that my working experience outside Australia will give me 15 points? 

Yes...

Option 1 - pay a registered MARA agent to review your case and they can give you a very solid opinion about whether your claim is likely to be accepted - this will cost a few dollars but nowhere near the VETASSESS fees (unless you get the agent to do more work for you as well)

This opinion though isn't a guarantee - no-one except VETASSESS can give you that (for Skills Assessment) and no-one but the immigration team can give you that for immigration points (and VETASSESS and immigration have been known to disagree in the past)

Option 2 - you go through the VETASSESS process, paying all fees and see what they say.

 

Personally I wouldn't dream of doing the process without an agent (even though many do) so I'd start with a free consultation with one of the MARA agents who post on here and then take it from there based on their discussion with you.

One of the things that can often trip people up is that experience is only valid after the qualification is granted in some instances. So lets say you got your PHD 3 years ago, if you claim PHD points and employment points you might only now have 3 years of experience. This is one of those grey areas and is different depending on the case and circumstances that's why I'd always get someone else to do it for me who really knows how it works

 

[Ausvisitor]

Where are you planning to move to in Australia? I ask because chemist is on the 190 visa list for New South Wales state sponsorship which would mean you wouldn't need to "chase points" quite as hard as you do for the 189

[Liam13]

1 hour ago, elboras said:

So, I have to spend around 1000 AUD to get a Skill Assessment (VETASESS) and 300 Euros on the IELST beforehand. If I do not get the invitation afterwards it will be for nothing. 

1 hour ago, elboras said:

So, I have to spend around 1000 AUD to get a Skill Assessment (VETASESS) and 300 Euros on the IELST beforehand. If I do not get the invitation afterwards it will be for nothing. 

This is why talking to a registered agent will be worth while so they can advise you what your options are. It may be an additional expense, but its better than losing everything because of a mistake or lack of understand.

 

[elboras]

7 minutes ago, Ausvisitor said:

Where are you planning to move to in Australia? I ask because chemist is on the 190 visa list for New South Wales state sponsorship which would mean you wouldn't need to "chase points" quite as hard as you do for the 189

Is it easier for 190? What is the invitation threshold? I prefer the 189 as I can apply for jobs everywhere but 190 could be an option

[Ausvisitor]

12 minutes ago, elboras said:

Is it easier for 190? What is the invitation threshold? I prefer the 189 as I can apply for jobs everywhere but 190 could be an option

It doesn't work like that for the 190. The state looks at the pool of people in there and if they beleive they need (in this case) a chemist this week they offer an invite to the most attractive candidate on the list (this may not be the one with the most points).

I got a 190 invite in my career (management consulting) with 65 points (plus a further 5 for 190 sponsorship) back in July/August when the 189 points where at 85+ each month 

...but there isn't a magic number to get over with 190 - it's more a put it in and hope they want you

[DukeNinja]

https://www.pharmacycouncil.org.au/our-services/assessments/

I have the feeling that many an international pharmacist has stumbled and been unsuccessful in gaining a positive skills assessment.

Speaking to the Australian Pharmacy Council directly, rather than asking people who aren't qualified to assess your qualifications may well give you the answer you seek.

Edited February 18, 2020 by DukeNinja

[elboras]

17 minutes ago, DukeNinja said:

https://www.pharmacycouncil.org.au/our-services/assessments/

I have the feeling that many an international pharmacist has stumbled and been unsuccessful in gaining a positive skills assessment.

Speaking to the Australian Pharmacy Council directly, rather than asking people who aren't qualified to assess your qualifications may well give you the answer you seek.

Thanks for the input. I hope the skill assessment is not an issue based on my qualifications. I am more worried about meeting the 90 points or more. One last remaining question, if after submitting my EoI and I am rejected, can still apply in the next months hoping that the invitation threshold decreases?

[DukeNinja]

14 minutes ago, elboras said:

Thanks for the input. I hope the skill assessment is not an issue based on my qualifications. I am more worried about meeting the 90 points or more. One last remaining question, if after submitting my EoI and I am rejected, can still apply in the next months hoping that the invitation threshold decreases?

It's the skills assessment that you should be concerned about.

If I was in your position, I'd be speaking to the Council first. If your skills cannot be matched to the Australian equivalent, then I'm afraid that's the end of the line.

No point in putting the cart before the horse.

If they say that your Pharmacist qualification and experience may be able to be accredited, then you will have to to the language test to both maximise your points, and also to accompany your skills assessment application.

You'll then have to have employer letters that back your experience and link them to the ANZSCO equivalent.

Once all of that (and any other steps that may be applicable to your situation) is ready, then the next step is probably putting in an EoI.

This will sit in the system, until either it is deemed that the State needs someone of your experience and qualifications (190 visa), or there is no one more desirable than you, with more points (189 visa). This may be a matter of weeks, months, or up to 2 years, at which point your EoI will expire, and you'll have to lodge another one.

Edited February 18, 2020 by DukeNinja

[elboras]

8 minutes ago, DukeNinja said:

It's the skills assessment that you should be concerned about.

If I was in your position, I'd be speaking to the Council first. If your skills cannot be matched to the Australian equivalent, then I'm afraid that's the end of the line.

No point in putting the cart before the horse.

But I am chemist not a pharmacist. My skill assessment authority is VETASSESS not APC, isn´t it? Sorry I might be missing something

[DukeNinja]

13 minutes ago, elboras said:

But I am chemist not a pharmacist. My skill assessment authority is VETASSESS not APC, isn´t it? Sorry I might be missing something

My mistake. I assumed you mean pharmacist.

Check out this website below, it will give you an idea of what's available to you:

https://www.anzscosearch.com

Sounds like your ANZSCO code is 234211: Chemist

 

[Ausvisitor]

39 minutes ago, elboras said:

Thanks for the input. I hope the skill assessment is not an issue based on my qualifications. I am more worried about meeting the 90 points or more. One last remaining question, if after submitting my EoI and I am rejected, can still apply in the next months hoping that the invitation threshold decreases?

If you submit your EOI and it is not "selected" you can alter it at any time prior to selection to adjust points (up or down) - essentially a points alteration resets the time of submission to the time you made the update

Once you have been "selected" (i.e invited to apply) if you are then refused because you calculated your points incorrectly for some reason then a number of things may happen:

1) You may be refused but allowed to submit a new EOI (with all the associated waiting) with your new total of points

2) If they think your mistated points where a "planned" deception rather than an honest mistake you will likely be given a ban of 3+ years during which you cannot apply for any other visa (including a simple tourist visa for a holiday)

3) You will lose the application fees you have submitted - this might be just the VETASSESS fees, or if it gets further it could be all the VISA fees (and at $4000+ for the main applicant alone this is something you want to avoid)

[elboras]

6 minutes ago, Ausvisitor said:

If you submit your EOI and it is not "selected" you can alter it at any time prior to selection to adjust points (up or down) - essentially a points alteration resets the time of submission to the time you made the update

Once you have been "selected" (i.e invited to apply) if you are then refused because you calculated your points incorrectly for some reason then a number of things may happen:

1) You may be refused but allowed to submit a new EOI (with all the associated waiting) with your new total of points

2) If they think your mistated points where a "planned" deception rather than an honest mistake you will likely be given a ban of 3+ years during which you cannot apply for any other visa (including a simple tourist visa for a holiday)

3) You will lose the application fees you have submitted - this might be just the VETASSESS fees, or if it gets further it could be all the VISA fees (and at $4000+ for the main applicant alone this is something you want to avoid)

Thank you! this is the kind of information I was looking for.

[elboras]

1 hour ago, Ausvisitor said:

If you submit your EOI and it is not "selected" you can alter it at any time prior to selection to adjust points (up or down) - essentially a points alteration resets the time of submission to the time you made the update

Once you have been "selected" (i.e invited to apply) if you are then refused because you calculated your points incorrectly for some reason then a number of things may happen:

1) You may be refused but allowed to submit a new EOI (with all the associated waiting) with your new total of points

2) If they think your mistated points where a "planned" deception rather than an honest mistake you will likely be given a ban of 3+ years during which you cannot apply for any other visa (including a simple tourist visa for a holiday)

3) You will lose the application fees you have submitted - this might be just the VETASSESS fees, or if it gets further it could be all the VISA fees (and at $4000+ for the main applicant alone this is something you want to avoid)

At what point do you pay $4000+ fee? This the important thing. Once invited, do you pay BEFORE applying for the VISA or AFTER is granted? I checked the website and it is not very clear. https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-listing/skilled-independent-189/points-tested#HowTo. 

[Ausvisitor]

57 minutes ago, elboras said:

At what point do you pay $4000+ fee? This the important thing. Once invited, do you pay BEFORE applying for the VISA or AFTER is granted? I checked the website and it is not very clear. https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-listing/skilled-independent-189/points-tested#HowTo. 

Aha - they aren't daft you pay when you apply and at that point it's a sunk cost you won't see a penny/cent of it back even if you are unsuccessful. 

Actual order of payments as follows

1) Sort out skills assessment - pay the skills assessing body at time of submitting assessement

2) Pay for English tests (if you are taking them) - again pay in advance of taking test (this is to IELTS or PTE)

3) Submit EOI - this is free

4) If you applied for state sponsorship and they invite you to apply for sponsorship, you need to pay about $300 in advance for them to review your application - if they don't sponsor you then you don't get it back

5) Applying for the main visa (you can only do this once immigration invite you) - pay visa application fee at time of lodging application (in the case of 189/190 this is about 9 months before you will get a decision on whether or not you will be granted one) - Main application $4,045, Additional applicant (partner or kid over 18) $2,025 each, Under 18s (your kids) $1,010 each

6) During the application you'll be asked to do medicals at some point - these are about $650 each

7) During the application you'll be asked to get police certificates for you all (maybe young kids are exempt I don't recall) this is needed for any country you have spent more than 12 months in - allow $100 per person per country

 

There will be sundry other things like notary costs for documents, transcripts of degrees etc...

 

And of course an agent's fees if you choose to use one. If you don't expect that you'll be investing about 400 hours of your own time into the entire process. If you do use one you will still need to do a fair bit of work but more like 150 hours.

Most agents will run about $4000 approx for a complete service so depends if you value your time more than $16 an hour (I know I did)...

 

[elboras]

5 minutes ago, Ausvisitor said:

 

5) Applying for the main visa (you can only do this once immigration invite you) - pay visa application fee at time of lodging application (in the case of 189/190 this is about 9 months before you will get a decision on whether or not you will be granted one) - Main application $4,045, Additional applicant (partner or kid over 18) $2,025 each, Under 18s (your kids) $1,010 each

Thank you so much, and I promise these are my last questions

And if my application is rejected (I am aiming to 85-90 points for the 189, so pretty uncertain outcome) those $4,045 will go down the drain?

Since you know very well the process, how easy is to secure job from overseas with a 189/190 granted? Do Australian companies normally hire people with a permanent visa but living overseas? Can you share any personal experience (or from friends) in this regard?