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sophieb92

Travelling after 189 application has been lodged/partner requirements

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Hi all,

I wonder if anyone can help me...

I am on my second 417 visa which is due to expire October of this year. I'm currently working in Melbourne and living with my partner who is an Australian citizen. I'm planning on applying for the 189 visa as a secondary school teacher and have calculated that I have 85 points. I have completed my skills assessment and IELTS test and am ready to send off my expression of interest. 

However I did have a few concerns about the process;

1. When completing the expression of interest I was asked about my relationship status, I am not sure whether I classify as "never married" or as having a "de facto partner", my partner and I met over a year ago and having been living together for about 3 months now. I wasn't sure if this counted as de facto as I have read a number of conflicting things, e.g. for some purposes you're de facto as soon as you start living together, others its 12 months or 24 months. As I'm applying for 189 visa this doesn't make a difference for the points I'll receive as now you get the extra 10 points regardless of whether you're single or with an Australian PR/citizen, what I'm concerned about is the 8515 condition that will probably be attached to my visa if I state that I'm single (8515 - You must not marry or enter into a de facto relationship before entering Australia. We might cancel your visa if we find out you were engaged, married or in a de facto relationship before we granted you the visa but did not tell us.), or if I state de facto and am then asked for evidence that we've lived together for 12 months, which we wouldn't have. Just trying to fill out the form honestly but very unsure.

2. I'm planning on visiting the UK twice this year in April and July and my other concern was that if I get invited to apply then I have 60 days to lodge my application so it could end up that I've had to do this before my trips, and I'm aware that the visa itself could take between 4 and 11 months to be processed. When I applied for my second WHV after completing my farm work I was told that if I was in Australia when I applied then I would have to be in Australia when it was granted, I got a bridging visa A which also stated that I couldn't return to Australia if I left. I understand that the bridging visa only activates when your current visa expires, my 417 WHV doesn't expire until October 2020. So my question is...If I lodge my 189 application before the trips, can I still travel to the UK in April and July? I'll still have a valid 417 visa for this period, but would the Australian government require me to remain here until my visa has been processed?

My original plan was to do everything ASAP because I really need to get the application lodged before my current visa expires so that I can get the bridging visa to stay here rather than having to return to the UK lodge form outside Australia. I thought that the process would be very long, I assumed that it would take ages for the skills assessment to be ready (this was done pretty quickly) and be a minimum of 3-4 month wait for your EOI to render an invitation, but form recent forums there have been some teachers with 70-75 points that say they got invitations within a month, some just 24 hours after submitting an invitation. I prefer to get things done sooner rather than later but I don't want to jeopardise either trip as its been nearly two years since I've seen my family and I'm not keen to wait until after the visa has been processed, but on the other hand it would make life very difficult if it did take longer and I didn't get it done before my current visa is up in October!  

I've spent the last few days scouring forums and reading the information on the government website but couldn't find anything similar to my situation and am still unsure as I know that the immigration department can be very strict and pedantic.

Thanks so much to anyone that took the time to read (I'm quite thorough and a bit of a worrier!), really hope someone can help or offer some words of experience or wisdom!

Cheers,

Soph 😀

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8 minutes ago, sophieb92 said:

Hi all,

I wonder if anyone can help me...

I am on my second 417 visa which is due to expire October of this year. I'm currently working in Melbourne and living with my partner who is an Australian citizen. I'm planning on applying for the 189 visa as a secondary school teacher and have calculated that I have 85 points. I have completed my skills assessment and IELTS test and am ready to send off my expression of interest. 

However I did have a few concerns about the process;

1. When completing the expression of interest I was asked about my relationship status, I am not sure whether I classify as "never married" or as having a "de facto partner", my partner and I met over a year ago and having been living together for about 3 months now. I wasn't sure if this counted as de facto as I have read a number of conflicting things, e.g. for some purposes you're de facto as soon as you start living together, others its 12 months or 24 months. As I'm applying for 189 visa this doesn't make a difference for the points I'll receive as now you get the extra 10 points regardless of whether you're single or with an Australian PR/citizen, what I'm concerned about is the 8515 condition that will probably be attached to my visa if I state that I'm single (8515 - You must not marry or enter into a de facto relationship before entering Australia. We might cancel your visa if we find out you were engaged, married or in a de facto relationship before we granted you the visa but did not tell us.), or if I state de facto and am then asked for evidence that we've lived together for 12 months, which we wouldn't have. Just trying to fill out the form honestly but very unsure.

2. I'm planning on visiting the UK twice this year in April and July and my other concern was that if I get invited to apply then I have 60 days to lodge my application so it could end up that I've had to do this before my trips, and I'm aware that the visa itself could take between 4 and 11 months to be processed. When I applied for my second WHV after completing my farm work I was told that if I was in Australia when I applied then I would have to be in Australia when it was granted, I got a bridging visa A which also stated that I couldn't return to Australia if I left. I understand that the bridging visa only activates when your current visa expires, my 417 WHV doesn't expire until October 2020. So my question is...If I lodge my 189 application before the trips, can I still travel to the UK in April and July? I'll still have a valid 417 visa for this period, but would the Australian government require me to remain here until my visa has been processed?

My original plan was to do everything ASAP because I really need to get the application lodged before my current visa expires so that I can get the bridging visa to stay here rather than having to return to the UK lodge form outside Australia. I thought that the process would be very long, I assumed that it would take ages for the skills assessment to be ready (this was done pretty quickly) and be a minimum of 3-4 month wait for your EOI to render an invitation, but form recent forums there have been some teachers with 70-75 points that say they got invitations within a month, some just 24 hours after submitting an invitation. I prefer to get things done sooner rather than later but I don't want to jeopardise either trip as its been nearly two years since I've seen my family and I'm not keen to wait until after the visa has been processed, but on the other hand it would make life very difficult if it did take longer and I didn't get it done before my current visa is up in October!  

I've spent the last few days scouring forums and reading the information on the government website but couldn't find anything similar to my situation and am still unsure as I know that the immigration department can be very strict and pedantic.

Thanks so much to anyone that took the time to read (I'm quite thorough and a bit of a worrier!), really hope someone can help or offer some words of experience or wisdom!

Cheers,

Soph 😀

Hey, great to meet another British teacher.. I’ll try and answer as many questions as I can:

Relationship status: Put defacto as that’s what you are. This only really applies if you are wanting to bring your partner with you on your visa. As your partner is Australian he in independent of you. Your also not applying for a partner visa (you on his) so again your absolutely fine

Leaving: as soon as you lodge your visa, you’ll get your bridging A and you’re right you can’t leave. The bridging won’t come into affect until your 417 has expired. However, you can apply for the bridging B. That allows you leave Australia whilst your 189 is being processed. 
 

189 EOI: Just be mindful even with those points your not guaranteed. I had 85 for 189 and actually work as a teacher here and didn’t get invited for almost a year. I put invitations for state sponsorship and got it a week later! Just be mindful 

 

Do you work as a teacher here now?

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You are always classed as "de facto' as soon as you start living together.   I think what's confusing you is that if you want to apply for a partner visa, you must have been de facto for at least 12 months. 

If you've only got 85 points then your chances of getting invited for the 189 are very slim indeed.

https://www.iscah.com/will-get-189-invitation-january-2020-estimates/

Is there another visa you could apply for (190 or 491)?

  I suggest you start collecting evidence of your de facto relationship so you can apply for a partner visa in 9 months' time.

Edited by Marisawright

Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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Hi Lambert, likewise!! 😀

Thanks for your reply! Yes that was what I was thinking too about the relationship status, on the form it just said that I'd have to provide evidence that he is an Australian citizen, it didn't mention anything about proving a de facto relationship so hopefully it should be okay! 

Yes I read about the bridging B visas too, do you know if they are easy to get or do you have to meet certain requirements? e.g. compassionate circumstances, like a funeral or wedding?

So say just for example that I lodged my application in May, does that mean that to be able to visit the UK in July that I'd have to apply for a bridging B visa, even though my working holiday visa would still be valid?

I actually have 80, 85 with state sponsorship I just realised. That was actually my initial plan to apply for the 190 state sponsorship, as I didn't think I'd have enough points to get the 189 as when I was looking into it before I only had 70 or 75 with the sponsorship, but then they brought in the extra partner points so that upped me to 80/85 so I thought I'd just go for it and then apply for the Victorian nomination (they say they make a decision in 12 weeks) when time starts running out haha. But from looking at recent forums there does seem to be a lot of secondary maths teachers that are getting invited with 75 points.

Its just hard to know I guess! Could take 1 month, could take 1 year 😂 did you apply recently?

Yes I'm working at a secondary school in Melbourne, which I worked at during my first WHV, now I can go back for another 6 months on my second WHV. It would be amazing if it did happen quickly for me as then I could continue working there after my 6 months is up. 

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27 minutes ago, Lambert said:

Hey, great to meet another British teacher.. I’ll try and answer as many questions as I can:

Relationship status: Put defacto as that’s what you are. This only really applies if you are wanting to bring your partner with you on your visa. As your partner is Australian he in independent of you. Your also not applying for a partner visa (you on his) so again your absolutely fine

Leaving: as soon as you lodge your visa, you’ll get your bridging A and you’re right you can’t leave. The bridging won’t come into affect until your 417 has expired. However, you can apply for the bridging B. That allows you leave Australia whilst your 189 is being processed. 
 

189 EOI: Just be mindful even with those points your not guaranteed. I had 85 for 189 and actually work as a teacher here and didn’t get invited for almost a year. I put invitations for state sponsorship and got it a week later! Just be mindful 

 

Do you work as a teacher here now?

Hi Lambert, likewise!! 😀

Thanks for your reply! Yes that was what I was thinking too about the relationship status, on the form it just said that I'd have to provide evidence that he is an Australian citizen, it didn't mention anything about proving a de facto relationship so hopefully it should be okay! 

Yes I read about the bridging B visas too, do you know if they are easy to get or do you have to meet certain requirements? e.g. compassionate circumstances, like a funeral or wedding?

So say just for example that I lodged my application in May, does that mean that to be able to visit the UK in July that I'd have to apply for a bridging B visa, even though my working holiday visa would still be valid?

I actually have 80, 85 with state sponsorship I just realised. That was actually my initial plan to apply for the 190 state sponsorship, as I didn't think I'd have enough points to get the 189 as when I was looking into it before I only had 70 or 75 with the sponsorship, but then they brought in the extra partner points so that upped me to 80/85 so I thought I'd just go for it and then apply for the Victorian nomination (they say they make a decision in 12 weeks) when time starts running out haha. But from looking at recent forums there does seem to be a lot of secondary maths teachers that are getting invited with 75 points.

Its just hard to know I guess, could take 1 month, could take 1 year!! 😂 did you apply recently?

Yes I'm working at a secondary school in Melbourne, which I worked at during my first WHV, now I can go back for another 6 months on my second WHV. It would be amazing if it did happen quickly for me as then I could continue working there after my 6 months is up. 

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7 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

You are always classed as "de facto' as soon as you start living together.   I think what's confusing you is that if you want to apply for a partner visa, you must have been de facto for at least 12 months. 

If you've only got 85 points then your chances of getting invited for the 189 are very slim indeed.

https://www.iscah.com/will-get-189-invitation-january-2020-estimates/

Is there another visa you could apply for (190 or 491)?

  I suggest you start collecting evidence of your de facto relationship so you can apply for a partner visa in 9 months' time.

Yes that was what was confusing me, it just states 12 months for immigration purposes, but I think that it is referring to partner visas. 

The 190 is my back up option... although I have been checking on the invitation rounds on the skillselect area of the government website and there have been a number invitations issued to people with 80 - 85 points in the last couple of months. A friend of mine who has the same amount of points as me also got invited recently so I think that there is a chance. You're right though, I don't think its enough to bank on a 189 invitation.

I'm not sure that I'll be eligible for the partner visa as my current visa expires in October, we'll have lived together for about 11ish months by the date of my visa expiration, so even if we left it until the last minute I don't think it would be enough... 

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33 minutes ago, sophieb92 said:

Yes that was what was confusing me, it just states 12 months for immigration purposes, but I think that it is referring to partner visas. 

Yes, what that means is that you must have BEEN in a de facto relationship for 12 months. It doesn't mean that it's not counted as a de facto relationship for the first 12 months.   You are de facto from the day you move in together (and if you end up having to apply for a partner visa, that's an important day to have evidence for, so make sure you have something to prove that was the date). 

What a shame your visa expires a month short!    Applying for the 189 seems a very expensive way to bridge that small gap, though.   

All you really need is some kind of visa that will let you stay for another month or so, then you could apply for your partner visa onshore and get a bridging visa to stay in Australia.  

I suspect it would be cheaper to pay for a consultation with a good migration agent, who I'm sure could find you a simpler strategy.   We have several good agents on these forums, like @wrussell, @Raul Senise or @paulhand


Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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10 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Yes, what that means is that you must have BEEN in a de facto relationship for 12 months. It doesn't mean that it's not counted as a de facto relationship for the first 12 months.   You are de facto from the day you move in together (and if you end up having to apply for a partner visa, that's an important day to have evidence for, so make sure you have something to prove that was the date). 

What a shame your visa expires a month short!    Applying for the 189 seems a very expensive way to bridge that small gap, though.   

All you really need is some kind of visa that will let you stay for another month or so, then you could apply for your partner visa onshore and get a bridging visa to stay in Australia.  

I suspect it would be cheaper to pay for a consultation with a good migration agent, who I'm sure could find you a simpler strategy.   We have several good agents on these forums, like @wrussell, @Raul Senise or @paulhand

Ah yes that makes a lot more sense now, thanks! 

Well my reasoning was that the 189/190 visa is permanent (or for 5 years then you can apply for citizenship) and costs just over $4000, so $5000 all in all once you've included the skills assessment and english test fees and is decided based on your application at the time, most sound like they get granted within a year... The partner visa is over $7000 if you do it yourself, and seems like a very long process i.e. having to be on a bridging visa for 22-33 months whilst they're processing, then having to get temporary residency and then apply for the permanent residency etc, my current housemates are about 1.5 years into the process and she is still on a bridging visa, seems like they have quite a way to go. It took another friend over 5 years to get her permanent residency through the partner visa... seems like a long and arduous process plus the worry of what happens if things in the relationship change! 

If things work out with the 189 (or 190 if I don't have enough points for the 189) it does seem like it would be cheaper and a lot less stressful, i.e. processing time is 4-11 months, compared to 22-33 months for a partner visa, and once the 189/190 is processed and granted its done and you don't have to worry about it...

Unless I have completely misunderstood the whole process... haha 😂

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13 minutes ago, sophieb92 said:

If things work out with the 189 (or 190 if I don't have enough points for the 189) it does seem like it would be cheaper and a lot less stressful, i.e. processing time is 4-11 months, compared to 22-33 months for a partner visa, and once the 189/190 is processed and granted its done and you don't have to worry about it...

The basic difference is:

The 189 and 190 are a competition, and if you don't make the grade, your application expires, you've lost all that money and you'll have to start all over again with a new application for a different visa.  

The partner visa route is long and expensive, but it's not a competition.  If you have a genuine relationship and you provide all the required evidence and meet the criteria, you will get the visa eventually.  


Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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16 minutes ago, sophieb92 said:

Ah yes that makes a lot more sense now, thanks! 

Well my reasoning was that the 189/190 visa is permanent (or for 5 years then you can apply for citizenship) and costs just over $4000, so $5000 all in all once you've included the skills assessment and english test fees and is decided based on your application at the time, most sound like they get granted within a year... The partner visa is over $7000 if you do it yourself, and seems like a very long process i.e. having to be on a bridging visa for 22-33 months whilst they're processing, then having to get temporary residency and then apply for the permanent residency etc, my current housemates are about 1.5 years into the process and she is still on a bridging visa, seems like they have quite a way to go. It took another friend over 5 years to get her permanent residency through the partner visa... seems like a long and arduous process plus the worry of what happens if things in the relationship change! 

If things work out with the 189 (or 190 if I don't have enough points for the 189) it does seem like it would be cheaper and a lot less stressful, i.e. processing time is 4-11 months, compared to 22-33 months for a partner visa, and once the 189/190 is processed and granted its done and you don't have to worry about it...

Unless I have completely misunderstood the whole process... haha 😂

Just be mindful that you need a job offer from Victoria first before you can lodge the EOI.. now as you don’t have a lot of time left getting the job offer then the invitation is such a stretch.. 

Have your done your skills assessment yet? That takes roughly 10-12 weeks. I think the $4-5k Is ambiguous seeing as you need health checks, PCC from the countries you’ve been in for longer than 12 months, English tests etc.

You can leave if you still have your WHV in tact.. bridging B is easy to get also, I got it!

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2 hours ago, VERYSTORMY said:

The current minimum for an invite for a 189 is 95 points

Of course that number is also irrelevant - all it says is that in the last round you needed 95+ points. It doesn't give any indication of what will be needed in future rounds.

 

It's a decent "yardstick" though

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19 hours ago, sophieb92 said:

Yes I read about the bridging B visas too, do you know if they are easy to get or do you have to meet certain requirements? e.g. compassionate circumstances, like a funeral or wedding?

Bridging visa B is easy and quick to get. I got one in November. I just said I was visiting family back home. Didn't have to provide any evidence. It was granted within a day or 2.

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