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simmo

The UK and Climate Change

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16 hours ago, bunbury61 said:

And the building projects that are still being built on flood plains .

That's a symptom of too many people and no more suitable building land. Been happening for a few years now.

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Reckon there’s a bit of cooling going on in Melbourne,too. Never known a Feb day that is actually cold before like today. It has been a cold Summer apart from a couple of ridiculously hot days . Very uneven.

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Not convinced of it yet. It's been a bad year here for fires and bad in the UK for floods. But I still don't buy that we will "have to get used to it". Mind you I've always been an optimist.
We have been lucky as it's been a typical summer here. Pretty normal really. Good news in the last couple of weeks for the heavy rain thay've had in drought stricken areas.



Three things;

Getting used to it - this being optimistic, denial or pretence otherwise is the pessimistic view.

I am not convinced - please see the first point. There are several approaches to not bring convinced but as sure as eggs are eggs, we (the world, that is us humans) will transition into implementing mitigation’s smoothly or will find ourselves dragged along kicking and screaming into knee jerk mitigation in the future.

Finally - this is not a religion- no one needs to be convinced or converted - Mother Nature is, and she will adapt (as has been the case through our time), the question is will we be able to keep up or will we be left behind.

The final point is what climate change mitigation and efforts/innovations in the space are seeking to achieve. It’s two pronged mitigation and innovation , not one or the other.

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I wonder whether those countries with oil will agree about climate change being man made? Thinking USA, Saudi Arabia etc. Most of the Southern Baptists will not, that’s for sure.

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I wonder whether those countries with oil will agree about climate change being man made? Thinking USA, Saudi Arabia etc. Most of the Southern Baptists will not, that’s for sure.



I’d expect not. However, if there was a transition plan to other forms of energy (which are already under way in places like China and India etc.), then people will see a future for their countries economies and then themselves.

Those particular lobbies have done a good job of making the personal economic choices for ordinary people stark. Effectively, lose oil, lose your future.

An effective transition plan to sustain the economy to cleaner firms of energy would reassure people that they aren’t going to just be left without a decent livelihood and that there is a way forward. That’s the job of the politicians- but they are too busy playing into the hands of the big energy lobbyists

Having said that, some big energy giants the - likes of Shell, BP etc. do scenario planing because they see the writing on the wall and are looking at alternatives. There is nothing in it for them if there are no customers in the future, because pollution is so bad, customers are one existent, when fossil fuels can no longer be consumed).

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I don’t buy it’s 💯 man made Co2 is needed to make plants grow , we simply don’t understand and can control hot solar spots that the sun produces which cause temps to rise , also from what I read about the earths natural axis tilt alters which also has a bearing on things ,this article  is a good read https://www.livescience.com/6937-ice-ages-blamed-tilted-earth.html

I think we need to dart protecting the environment first , stop cutting our rain forests down , plant more trees be more resourceful , build more efficient homes and gradually move to renewables it’s not going to happen over night but man is a resourceful chap and we can over come this by not trashing our economies. 

Edited by Rallyman

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3 hours ago, ssiri said:

 

 


Three things;

Getting used to it - this being optimistic, denial or pretence otherwise is the pessimistic view.

I am not convinced - please see the first point. There are several approaches to not bring convinced but as sure as eggs are eggs, we (the world, that is us humans) will transition into implementing mitigation’s smoothly or will find ourselves dragged along kicking and screaming into knee jerk mitigation in the future.

Finally - this is not a religion- no one needs to be convinced or converted - Mother Nature is, and she will adapt (as has been the case through our time), the question is will we be able to keep up or will we be left behind.

The final point is what climate change mitigation and efforts/innovations in the space are seeking to achieve. It’s two pronged mitigation and innovation , not one or the other.

 

 

I agree that the transition to renewables, electric vehicles, less reliance on coal has already begun. The richer countries will make the most headway and innovation as usual while poorer nations will be let off meeting targets, if they have them in the first place.

It's a balancing act, maintaining reliability of power, cost, jobs, whilst introducing new technology.

It's happening though.

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I agree that the transition to renewables, electric vehicles, less reliance on coal has already begun. The richer countries will make the most headway and innovation as usual while poorer nations will be let off meeting targets, if they have them in the first place.
It's a balancing act, maintaining reliability of power, cost, jobs, whilst introducing new technology.
It's happening though.



Slowly though. Needs to be quicker - and politicians are the ones who need to set the pace, via signalling changes.

Most developing countries (and I’m not including China or India in this, as that change process has started there already, as slowly), will change - luckily they do t tend to be massive net polluters, so I years of impact the pace whilst important is not a show stopper, for their transition. So yes, they will follow

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3 hours ago, ssiri said:

 

 


Slowly though. Needs to be quicker - and politicians are the ones who need to set the pace, via signalling changes.

Most developing countries (and I’m not including China or India in this, as that change process has started there already, as slowly), will change - luckily they do t tend to be massive net polluters, so I years of impact the pace whilst important is not a show stopper, for their transition. So yes, they will follow

 

 

Technology is not advanced enough to produce enough base load power as seen in the system crashing in Victoria and SA and in Australia’s case if we stopped mining with in 5 years it would send it back to Stone Age 

 

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2 hours ago, Rallyman said:

Technology is not advanced enough to produce enough base load power as seen in the system crashing in Victoria and SA and in Australia’s case if we stopped mining with in 5 years it would send it back to Stone Age 

 

It's nearly 4 years since the total black out in South Australia and we have more sources of renewable energy now than we did then.  Plus some rather large batteries that have proven to be excellent for stabilizing the energy grid during peak demand.  We are heading towards 100% renewable energy by 2025 and while some would say SA is a few years behind the rest of the country we are certainly not back at the stone age.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/south-australia-blackout-didnt-stop-energy-transition-it-accelerated-it-77806/

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Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain but it takes character and self control to be understanding and forgiving.

Dale Carnegie – 1888-1955, Author and Lecturer

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2 hours ago, NicF said:

It's nearly 4 years since the total black out in South Australia and we have more sources of renewable energy now than we did then.  Plus some rather large batteries that have proven to be excellent for stabilizing the energy grid during peak demand.  We are heading towards 100% renewable energy by 2025 and while some would say SA is a few years behind the rest of the country we are certainly not back at the stone age.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/south-australia-blackout-didnt-stop-energy-transition-it-accelerated-it-77806/

That’s good news for sure , although during recent hot weather again people were warned power maybe turned off and cut back as recent as January 2020

https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/sa-cut-off-from-national-grid-as-victorians-asked-to-power-down-20200131-p53wel

I am sure the change will come and as technology gets better and we will get to greener energy . Zero carbon I don’t think so 

If mining was stopped within 5 years we would imho be back in Stone Age as its contributions are key to the wealth of Australia , not to mention the high paid jobs we would lose. 

Edited by Rallyman
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On 20/02/2020 at 12:03, NicF said:

It's nearly 4 years since the total black out in South Australia and we have more sources of renewable energy now than we did then.  Plus some rather large batteries that have proven to be excellent for stabilizing the energy grid during peak demand.  We are heading towards 100% renewable energy by 2025 and while some would say SA is a few years behind the rest of the country we are certainly not back at the stone age.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/south-australia-blackout-didnt-stop-energy-transition-it-accelerated-it-77806/

They're also having to pay astronomical fees for private businesses with their own generators to kick in to the grid when demand is high. Check it out, it's been in the news. 

SA still gets a lot of coal fire power input from other states too and has the most expensive electricity charges in Aus. Some businesses almost relocated to other states due to the power prices and forced the state government to give them a guaranteed lower price than domestic consumers.

I think they went Tesla for the battery backup too. Hugely expensive and they could have gone Aus technology. There's Aus companies already doing the same thing as Tesla but a lot cheaper.

Batteries have a certain lifetime too. What happens then, landfill.

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5 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

They're also having to pay astronomical fees for private businesses with their own generators to kick in to the grid when demand is high. Check it out, it's been in the news. 

SA still gets a lot of coal fire power input from other states too and has the most expensive electricity charges in Aus. Some businesses almost relocated to other states due to the power prices and forced the state government to give them a guaranteed lower price than domestic consumers.

I think they went Tesla for the battery backup too. Hugely expensive and they could have gone Aus technology. There's Aus companies already doing the same thing as Tesla but a lot cheaper.

Batteries have a certain lifetime too. What happens then, landfill.

By 2040 900,000tons of solar panels to get rid of in uk 

land fill will be busy 

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I wonder if anyone has done the calculations of what the load on the national grid will be when we are all plugging in out EVs each evening when we get home from work and all the ovens go on to cook dinner and the tvs and kettles go on...

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If you own a car, you are not helping the environment if you sell your car and buy a Tesla.

The energy required to create the new Tesla as well as batteries etc means it is just virtue signalling and achieves nothing.

Batteries last a few years also and then lose their effectiveness and need dumping in landfill and replacing.

The far better thing for the environment is to keep your current car and drive it responsibly.

If you keep your car for a long time, over 10 years then that is the best thing for the environment. We don't need a new car every 3 or 4 years.

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I want it all, and I want it now.

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If you own a car, you are not helping the environment if you sell your car and buy a Tesla.
The energy required to create the new Tesla as well as batteries etc means it is just virtue signalling and achieves nothing.
Batteries last a few years also and then lose their effectiveness and need dumping in landfill and replacing.
The far better thing for the environment is to keep your current car and drive it responsibly.
If you keep your car for a long time, over 10 years then that is the best thing for the environment. We don't need a new car every 3 or 4 years.



I wouldn’t be so sure. Production methods being better and improvements in technology is why people tend to be incentivised to replace a car sooner. This is driven by policy. I remember schemes in the early noughties in the UK to turn in one’s petrol guzzling, carbon emitting monstrosity of over 10 years of age to buy one that was manufactured to comply to the environment laws at the time. It worked because it was a rebate to the consumer, at the time.

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On 22/02/2020 at 10:01, Parley said:

If you own a car, you are not helping the environment if you sell your car and buy a Tesla.

The energy required to create the new Tesla as well as batteries etc means it is just virtue signalling and achieves nothing.

Batteries last a few years also and then lose their effectiveness and need dumping in landfill and replacing.

The far better thing for the environment is to keep your current car and drive it responsibly.

If you keep your car for a long time, over 10 years then that is the best thing for the environment. We don't need a new car every 3 or 4 years.

The battery in my Tesla is guaranteed at least 80% effective after 8 years or 160,000kms.  They really don’t expect to have to replace many batteries, they aren’t idiots.

In reality it has been found that Teslas car batteries are still over 90% effective after 150,000 miles in the USA (240,000kms) and are expected to be good for up to 500,000 miles (750,000kms).  There are not many car engines that can drive that long.

I fully expect to be driving my Tesla 15 years from now.

So the battery will outlast the car and can then be recycled for several years for home storage.  They also contain precious elements which can be recycled so don’t expect to see too many of these batteries in landfill any time soon, if ever.

I have to chuckle when people who are openly hostile to environmentalism oppose green options on the specious grounds that they damage the environment.  And they are never troubled by real facts.

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Timeline: 309/100 Sent 7/8/13, Money Taken 9/8/13, CO appointed 3/9/13. Med 3/12/13. Police check 4/12/13. VISA GRANTED 8/4/14, Subclass100. Recce August 2014. Arrived 30 July 2015.

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On 22/02/2020 at 01:52, simmo said:

I wonder if anyone has done the calculations of what the load on the national grid will be when we are all plugging in out EVs each evening when we get home from work and all the ovens go on to cook dinner and the tvs and kettles go on...

People generally don’t charge their EVs up in the evening.  And with vehicle-to-grid technology car batteries could help manage peak loads on the grid reducing the waste in generation which occurs because excess energy has to be always available for the grid to function.

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Timeline: 309/100 Sent 7/8/13, Money Taken 9/8/13, CO appointed 3/9/13. Med 3/12/13. Police check 4/12/13. VISA GRANTED 8/4/14, Subclass100. Recce August 2014. Arrived 30 July 2015.

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On 20/02/2020 at 16:10, Rallyman said:

That’s good news for sure , although during recent hot weather again people were warned power maybe turned off and cut back as recent as January 2020

https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/sa-cut-off-from-national-grid-as-victorians-asked-to-power-down-20200131-p53wel

I am sure the change will come and as technology gets better and we will get to greener energy . Zero carbon I don’t think so 

If mining was stopped within 5 years we would imho be back in Stone Age as its contributions are key to the wealth of Australia , not to mention the high paid jobs we would lose. 

Australia could generate enough solar energy to provide power to the whole of Asia.  That would dwarf profits from selling coal.

All it needs is for Australians to get out of their fossil-fuel mentality and embrace a cleaner less-polluted future.

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Timeline: 309/100 Sent 7/8/13, Money Taken 9/8/13, CO appointed 3/9/13. Med 3/12/13. Police check 4/12/13. VISA GRANTED 8/4/14, Subclass100. Recce August 2014. Arrived 30 July 2015.

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5 hours ago, ssiri said:

 

 


I wouldn’t be so sure. Production methods being better and improvements in technology is why people tend to be incentivised to replace a car sooner. This is driven by policy. I remember schemes in the early noughties in the UK to turn in one’s petrol guzzling, carbon emitting monstrosity of over 10 years of age to buy one that was manufactured to comply to the environment laws at the time. It worked because it was a rebate to the consumer, at the time.

 

 

Wasn't that the time when you could trade in a petrol guzzler and swap it for diesel as they thought that was way better at the time.

Experts wrong on that one.

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45 minutes ago, Gbye grey sky said:

People generally don’t charge their EVs up in the evening.  And with vehicle-to-grid technology car batteries could help manage peak loads on the grid reducing the waste in generation which occurs because excess energy has to be always available for the grid to function.

When do people generally charge them up then?

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38 minutes ago, Gbye grey sky said:

Australia could generate enough solar energy to provide power to the whole of Asia.  That would dwarf profits from selling coal.

All it needs is for Australians to get out of their fossil-fuel mentality and embrace a cleaner less-polluted future.

Yes it could but how do you propose laying all that copper cable to get the power to where it's needed. Along with all the extra tech to convert DC to AC, get the voltage and frequency in sync and match it up to Asia or whoevers system. As well as providing back up battery storage for when there's problems. Do you think Aus should pay too.

Solar is fine for localised areas. Asia have plenty of sun themselves and could have quite large towns and villages off the grid and self sufficient. Check out Broken Hill in Aus for a good example.

 

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49 minutes ago, Gbye grey sky said:

People generally don’t charge their EVs up in the evening.  And with vehicle-to-grid technology car batteries could help manage peak loads on the grid reducing the waste in generation which occurs because excess energy has to be always available for the grid to function.

There's not enough people with EV's to make it a problem at the moment.

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Wasn't that the time when you could trade in a petrol guzzler and swap it for diesel as they thought that was way better at the time.

Experts wrong on that one.

 

 

No, it wasn’t, that one. it was just a policy to get very old cars off the road, not related diesel.

 

The only benefit of diesel is that it lasts longer, but its just as polluting if not worse than petrol. So fewer refills.

 

 

 

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On 21/02/2020 at 15:52, simmo said:

I wonder if anyone has done the calculations of what the load on the national grid will be when we are all plugging in out EVs each evening when we get home from work and all the ovens go on to cook dinner and the tvs and kettles go on...

Talking to a guy who works on car battery technology at jag .

The u.k has only enough capacity in 2020 for 3% of people owning electric cars , and the charging thereof .

I higher proportion would likely shut the grid down 

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BUT I DONT FEEL AFRAID

AS LONG AS I GAZE AT

WATERLOO SUNSET

IAM IN PARADISE

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