Been in Oz 8 months and struggling - advice please!

[Marisawright]

42 minutes ago, Johnny Kash said:

Id be interested to know if that is six years at a time, i.e. can you top up 6 years, then 6 years down the line top up another 6??

I guess for those expats who left UK at an early age and have been out of the country for that long then it might be difficult to 'catch up' as it were, especially if you weren't aware of the chance to still contribute from overseas.

I imagine you could do that, but then you'd be more likely to top up 6 years, then voluntarily pay contributions from that point on - safer than waiting, just in case the rules change before the next time you want to top up!  

I'm a good example of what you mean. I left the UK in my thirties.   I didn't know about voluntary contributions, and I don't think I'm unusual in that - I just assumed that I'd left the UK and therefore the door was closed. By the time I found out in my sixties, I could only backpay six years, so I don't even get half of the UK pension.

At the time we were considering a move to the UK.  We didn't really need the government pension:  we both have superannuation and could take an income stream, but while that's tax-free in Australia, it would be taxed as income in the UK.  We were old enough that we could've cashed in our super and moved it over as a lump sum, but there is limited scope to invest that tax-free in the UK, so we'd still have ended up paying more tax than if we stayed in Australia.   

In summary, we'd have ended up with less income from our superannuation in the UK than we would get in Australia. That might not have been a deal-breaker, but the bigger problem  with superannuation is that it's a finite pot of money - there's a risk it will run out before you do, and if that happens, you need a safety net.  In Australia, we'd both get the full Australian pension if we ran into trouble. In the UK, my OH would get nothing and I'd get less than half the UK pension. 

Based on various projections, we're likely to run out of superannuation in our 80's somewhere (and we don't own a home).  Of course we might be dead by then, but what if we're not?   We didn't fancy having to up sticks and return to Australia in very old age.  Luckily, I find I prefer living in Australia anyway (though my oh always says he'd move to the UK as soon as he wins Lotto...).

Edited January 19, 2020 by Marisawright

[Johnny Kash]

47 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

I imagine you could do that, but then you'd be more likely to top up 6 years, then voluntarily pay contributions from that point on - safer than waiting, just in case the rules change before the next time you want to top up!  

 

this is a good point.    at the moment you can still pay the cheaper class 2 contributions (approx. GBP150 per year of NI conts, which is a bargain) but my understanding is you need to have been working in the UK prior to those 6 years.

The govt were going to axe this but then made a U-turn.  For how long is unclear. 

I only found out about this in the last year or so and for the first 5 years after leaving UK didn't know you could top up NI contributions at all, at either class 2 or 3.   Class 3 costs around GBP700 per year.

Of course the gamble is if the UK state pension becomes means tested at some point (similar to aussie) so in theory you could make all these topups and its wasted money in some circumstances.  Good luck to whatever government tries to get that through anyway

 

 

[davlap]

3 hours ago, Johnny Kash said:

this is a good point.    at the moment you can still pay the cheaper class 2 contributions (approx. GBP150 per year of NI conts, which is a bargain) but my understanding is you need to have been working in the UK prior to those 6 years.

The govt were going to axe this but then made a U-turn.  For how long is unclear. 

I only found out about this in the last year or so and for the first 5 years after leaving UK didn't know you could top up NI contributions at all, at either class 2 or 3.   Class 3 costs around GBP700 per year.

Of course the gamble is if the UK state pension becomes means tested at some point (similar to aussie) so in theory you could make all these topups and its wasted money in some circumstances.  Good luck to whatever government tries to get that through anyway

 

 

I think you can only pay class 2 if you are working in Aus. I have a chequered work history in Aus, so may or may not be eligible - probably need to work so much of a UK tax year.

Unfortunately, you have to download a form fill it out and post it ! And yes, I have registered on gov.uk etc with a log in. I even called up HMRC to check for other ways.

The form is pretty basic, you fill out to pay from abroad and tick a box for previous years. I have no doubt there will not be enough info for them. Worry is, as I have ticked the box, they will take out Class 3 which I don't want to do.

Also, not sure whether to declare as non-resident yet. Been here a few years, but use in-laws UK address. I am just about to retire at 60, so not sure of best way to do it, as things change once you are non-resident (yes I know it depends on days / year in UK)

Probably will get some advice in the near future (eg Andrew on this site)

[Marisawright]

2 minutes ago, davlap said:

 

Also, not sure whether to declare as non-resident yet. Been here a few years, but use in-laws UK address. I am just about to retire at 60, so not sure of best way to do it, as things change once you are non-resident 

It’s not a matter If declaring that you’re resident or not, you don’t get to choose.  If you’re not resident in the UK for at least six months of the tax year, you’re a non resident. Using someone else’s address to look as though you reside there is illegal.

[Vickie78]

Aside from NI contributions, Is there still, I don't even know what it's called from memory, but back then mum used to pay into like a Private thing pretty sure it was called Prudential? I guess it was sort of like super, but not called that.  Private pension scheme? Is that a thing? Or am I remembering wrong? 

[Johnny Kash]

46 minutes ago, Vickie78 said:

Aside from NI contributions, Is there still, I don't even know what it's called from memory, but back then mum used to pay into like a Private thing pretty sure it was called Prudential? I guess it was sort of like super, but not called that.  Private pension scheme? Is that a thing? Or am I remembering wrong? 

You can still contribute from abroad towards a SIPP (self invested personal pension) for up to 5 years after leaving the UK.   As youre not earning GBP youd be limited to a max of 2880 (3600 gross) per year but would still get tax relief on this, so well worth doing if youre planning on returning.

With regard to opening a SIPP, Im pretty sure you would have to do this while still a UK resident though as I don't think you can open one from overseas.

Same with ISAs, assuming you open one in the UK that cash or investment can sit there until you return and hopefully grow tax free.   You can still contribute to the ISA in the tax year you leave the country but after that no more contributions permitted. 

[FeelingStuck]

On 09/12/2019 at 07:40, Chortlepuss said:

Some great advice here especially re: waiting till you’re settled to have kids. I’d be tempted to give it a little more time but beware that you could get yourself into a tricky situation. I came over to Brisbane in my 40’s over 12 years ago. If you’re used to the vibrancy of British cities it is very dull, albeit improving. My kids were young and personally I think if you have a young family, and are not so into the social side of things you can make it work. The flora and fauna are fantastic but like you, I find it wearing to drive for hours to get anywhere decent. My kids are grown up now and have had fabulous opportunities here (one is a nurse and about to buy her own house aged 25!).  I now feel stuck. I have had a great time but never stopped missing the British countryside, European travel, the weather (!) that enables you to be outside most days of the year with correct clothing. I have met a lot of nice people here through work and activities but no close friends. If I retire here, it is likely to be just me and my husband and we get on well thankfully but I miss our friends and family and the company of others.
I am so tired now of the heat and the climate has changed notably even in a decade here. I find solace in my trips home and the prospect of spending at least  part of my retirement back home. If I was alone and child free I’d be on the plane tomorrow, grateful for the experience but excited about moving on with my life! Sorry to ramble - but you need to completely enthusiastic about making it work in Australia before you commit completely - and I suspect that moving your partner over with you to the UK may not be the best outcome for him. 

Gosh, this is EXACTLY how I feel!! 

 

 

[Vickie78]

23 hours ago, Johnny Kash said:

You can still contribute from abroad towards a SIPP (self invested personal pension) for up to 5 years after leaving the UK.   As youre not earning GBP youd be limited to a max of 2880 (3600 gross) per year but would still get tax relief on this, so well worth doing if youre planning on returning.

With regard to opening a SIPP, Im pretty sure you would have to do this while still a UK resident though as I don't think you can open one from overseas.

Same with ISAs, assuming you open one in the UK that cash or investment can sit there until you return and hopefully grow tax free.   You can still contribute to the ISA in the tax year you leave the country but after that no more contributions permitted. 

Ah nice, good to know. Thank you  

Ooo just saw you can open kids versions of ISA's, that's good! 

Oh nevermind that's for army folk etc .. DOH! 

Edited January 21, 2020 by Vickie78

[proud preston]

On 09/12/2019 at 09:40, Chortlepuss said:

Some great advice here especially re: waiting till you’re settled to have kids. I’d be tempted to give it a little more time but beware that you could get yourself into a tricky situation. I came over to Brisbane in my 40’s over 12 years ago. If you’re used to the vibrancy of British cities it is very dull, albeit improving. My kids were young and personally I think if you have a young family, and are not so into the social side of things you can make it work. The flora and fauna are fantastic but like you, I find it wearing to drive for hours to get anywhere decent. My kids are grown up now and have had fabulous opportunities here (one is a nurse and about to buy her own house aged 25!).  I now feel stuck. I have had a great time but never stopped missing the British countryside, European travel, the weather (!) that enables you to be outside most days of the year with correct clothing. I have met a lot of nice people here through work and activities but no close friends. If I retire here, it is likely to be just me and my husband and we get on well thankfully but I miss our friends and family and the company of others.
I am so tired now of the heat and the climate has changed notably even in a decade here. I find solace in my trips home and the prospect of spending at least  part of my retirement back home. If I was alone and child free I’d be on the plane tomorrow, grateful for the experience but excited about moving on with my life! Sorry to ramble - but you need to completely enthusiastic about making it work in Australia before you commit completely - and I suspect that moving your partner over with you to the UK may not be the best outcome for him. 

Yes! My feelings exactly! Does it ever go away? Been in Brisbane 13 years - children now 18 and 16. Feel like I'm in self imposed exile. Miss the UK dreadfully- even with all it's faults I still love it - buildings, climate, countryside, TV, villages, family, friends.......the list goes on. Every time I go back to the UK I always dread retiring here. There was a book " Waiting to exhale" - that describes me. I know people will say " just leave" - not as simple as that.

 

[ali]

15 minutes ago, proud preston said:

Yes! My feelings exactly! Does it ever go away? Been in Brisbane 13 years - children now 18 and 16. Feel like I'm in self imposed exile. Miss the UK dreadfully- even with all it's faults I still love it - buildings, climate, countryside, TV, villages, family, friends.......the list goes on. Every time I go back to the UK I always dread retiring here. There was a book " Waiting to exhale" - that describes me. I know people will say " just leave" - not as simple as that.

 

Great username (moved from Walton-le-dale ourselves 13 years ago and hubby was a Fulwood boy).  I've never felt the urge to go back to the UK but do know from years on the forums that for some people the feeling doesn't go away (you'll see posts from people who've been in Aus 30 years and feel the way you do).  I know that you can't "just leave" but what is it that's making you stay?  Does your partner want to go back too or the young adults in your life?  Is it something you can consider when they've left home?  Sometimes, people feel better knowing they have a plan to move back (even if it's a long term plan), it keeps them going and changes the void into something more hopeful.

[DukeNinja]

55 minutes ago, ali said:

Great username (moved from Walton-le-dale ourselves 13 years ago and hubby was a Fulwood boy).  I've never felt the urge to go back to the UK but do know from years on the forums that for some people the feeling doesn't go away (you'll see posts from people who've been in Aus 30 years and feel the way you do).  I know that you can't "just leave" but what is it that's making you stay?  Does your partner want to go back too or the young adults in your life?  Is it something you can consider when they've left home?  Sometimes, people feel better knowing they have a plan to move back (even if it's a long term plan), it keeps them going and changes the void into something more hopeful.

What a small world. We moved from Preston too.

[Marisawright]

10 hours ago, proud preston said:

Yes! My feelings exactly! Does it ever go away?...Every time I go back to the UK I always dread retiring here. There was a book " Waiting to exhale" - that describes me. I know people will say " just leave" - not as simple as that.

 

I know leaving is not as simple as that, but trust me, you've got to do something about leaving NOW.   If you wait until you're close to retirement age, there's a big risk that you'll find it's impossible - because you can't afford it.  You'll be too tied to Australia financially with your super and pension, and it will be too late to do anything about it.  

The feeling doesn't go away, in fact it's only going to get worse.  So although leaving early can be daunting, it's worth moving Heaven and earth to achieve it, or you may never escape.

[ali]

9 hours ago, DukeNinja said:

What a small world. We moved from Preston too.

Gosh, it is a small world

[Sloth]

2 hours ago, ali said:

Gosh, it is a small world

It may be, but it weighs approximately 5,974,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 kg. Or 6,637,777,778 whales according to my onscreen calculator, no species mentioned.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Sloth

[proud preston]

@ali - a British husband who - although will look occasionally at houses in the UK and talk about returning to the UK or Ireland - isn’t serious and believes ‘ we have at better life here’. Two sons who (sort of) see here as home - feel like I would abandon them if I returned to the UK - and I do hope to stay near them- who knows where they will end up ? 

I feel guilty and self indulgent whingeing about wanting to go back but I can’t shake this longing. I’ve met those who never look back and then many, like me, who yearn to go back - irrespective of all the problems in the UK. I came here because my husband thought it was a great idea - and I stupidly was desperate to get out of my job. Feel a sort of grief for my boys not growing up there and me not spending more time with siblings and my mum - and......... you can’t get time back! 

@DukeNinja.     I love Preston - always have- despite it changing - would love to retire to Lancashire, Cumbria or Yorkshire 

@Marisawright I wasn’t aware of all the complications re super and pensions -a bit of a silly Pollyanna mindset- thank you for the info. 

I’ve been back about every 18 months ( could have paid off a lot of the mortgage!) and love being back - will really need to investigate this properly 

 

[DukeNinja]

2 hours ago, proud preston said:

@ali - a British husband who - although will look occasionally at houses in the UK and talk about returning to the UK or Ireland - isn’t serious and believes ‘ we have at better life here’. Two sons who (sort of) see here as home - feel like I would abandon them if I returned to the UK - and I do hope to stay near them- who knows where they will end up ? 

I feel guilty and self indulgent whingeing about wanting to go back but I can’t shake this longing. I’ve met those who never look back and then many, like me, who yearn to go back - irrespective of all the problems in the UK. I came here because my husband thought it was a great idea - and I stupidly was desperate to get out of my job. Feel a sort of grief for my boys not growing up there and me not spending more time with siblings and my mum - and......... you can’t get time back! 

@DukeNinja.     I love Preston - always have- despite it changing - would love to retire to Lancashire, Cumbria or Yorkshire 

@Marisawright I wasn’t aware of all the complications re super and pensions -a bit of a silly Pollyanna mindset- thank you for the info. 

I’ve been back about every 18 months ( could have paid off a lot of the mortgage!) and love being back - will really need to investigate this properly 

 

Isn't it funny how it's horses for courses. We gave Preston a go, twice, but it wasn't the place for us.

Once we sell our property we'll be able to officially close the chapter on it.

[proud preston]

@DukeNinja - yes true ‘horses for courses’ I do love Preston - but more out of nostalgia and loyalty than returning to live. I would like to be in rural Lancs or Yorkshire etc - not in a town/ city or burbs. That’s good that you will have closure soon and settle here in Australia. 

[bug family]

On 14/12/2019 at 13:16, Bulya said:

Takes at least three years if not longer.

No I am sorry bulya i have to disagree, i do not think you can put an arbitrary number on it and say after that point you will either be settled or not, i knew within the first month or so that it was not for me, but got sold on the old ' it takes at least two years then you will be fine ' speech, here i am 8 plus years on stuck with either the choice of leaving my children and wife to go back home to the UK on my own or staying here and going completely nuts ............it has already cost me my health to a degree, when i first arrived i was fit and healthy since then i  have had a couple of serious heart dysrhythmias and now have rheumatoid disease for life which is an autoimmune disorder that can be caused by stress.

[bug family]

To the original poster samt4,

On here you will find some very good advice from both sides of the divide,  I am possibly one of the 'stuck ones' that are written about on here, I like yourself miss the culture, scenery, people, places, diversity, pubs (especially the pubs lol) and even the weather back home in the UK, I would say that the pull of home only gets stronger and it does not get any easier with time, and that is without throwing children into the mix (i am married with two young children). I am telling you this as its very easy for 8 months as in your case to suddenly become 8 years, as in my case and you will find that you are still in a place you do not want to be going over and over the dilemma of Australia vs the UK, only now it is way more complicated to just 'go home' as time will have passed and circumstances will have changed.

Good luck..... as i have said before, don't let your Australian story become another 'shipwreck' to add to those already floundering on here, .........trust me i know, my ship is well and truly sinking lol ...I wish you good luck

[Marisawright]

@bug family, I really feel for you.  

If someone arrives in Oz, has a few setbacks and feels a bit lonely but is otherwise in two minds, then the "give it x years" advice is probably good.  

If someone arrives in Oz and discovers that they're so badly homesick they feel like they've got a limb missing, it's dangerous advice - because it means they risk getting more and more stuck and it just gets harder to go home. 

As you've found, the "you haven't given it time" advice is a great way for a husband or wife to fob you off with excuses...

[Johnny Kash]

31 minutes ago, bug family said:

No I am sorry bulya i have to disagree, i do not think you can put an arbitrary number on it and say after that point you will either be settled or not, i knew within the first month or so that it was not for me, but got sold on the old ' it takes at least two years then you will be fine ' speech, here i am 8 plus years on stuck with either the choice of leaving my children and wife to go back home to the UK on my own or staying here and going completely nuts ............it has already cost me my health to a degree, when i first arrived i was fit and healthy since then i  have had a couple of serious heart dysrhythmias and now have rheumatoid disease for life which is an autoimmune disorder that can be caused by stress.

sorry to hear this.  how old are your kids?

I know of a family who are currently in the UK - going well as far as I know - after 8 years in Oz.   Hubby wanted to move back to UK, wife preferred Australia.   They agreed that once their (only) child hit secondary school age they would move back to the UK, thus giving the child experience of both countries.   With the idea that when said child hits 18 they can then be free to decide where they want to live.   

The idea of early childhood in Oz (safe, outdoorsy etc.) and teenage/early adult life in the UK (more vibrant, probably better work opportunities) seems a good one to me, although might not work for everyone.

[Bulya]

1 hour ago, bug family said:

No I am sorry bulya i have to disagree, i do not think you can put an arbitrary number on it and say after that point you will either be settled or not, i knew within the first month or so that it was not for me, but got sold on the old ' it takes at least two years then you will be fine ' speech, here i am 8 plus years on stuck with either the choice of leaving my children and wife to go back home to the UK on my own or staying here and going completely nuts ............it has already cost me my health to a degree, when i first arrived i was fit and healthy since then i  have had a couple of serious heart dysrhythmias and now have rheumatoid disease for life which is an autoimmune disorder that can be caused by stress.

Where are you?

[bug family]

1 hour ago, Bulya said:

Where are you?

Perth WA.....

[bug family]

1 hour ago, Bulya said:

Where are you?

your not going to come and get me are you..............

[Bulya]

1 minute ago, bug family said:

your not going to come and get me are you..............

Who selected Perth and why?