Stuartjam Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 If I get permanent residency and leave to go back to uk will I have to leave my super until I’m at retirement age. I’ve researched in google but can’t find a definitive answer any ideas on where I can get some advise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausvisitor Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 Google will give you the answer if you read enough results. This one from CommBank.au sums up what others say too... Can you take your super overseas? If you are on a temporary Australian visa, you can access and withdraw the super you’ve earned in Australia, taking it with you when you move overseas. If you are an Australian citizen, or a permanent resident, you can’t take your super with you overseas. Generally, the earliest you can access your super is when you retire, or are taking steps towards retirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuartjam Posted November 27, 2019 Author Share Posted November 27, 2019 Thanks for your reply I’ve also read that if my pr visa expires I can then claim my super ibviously that would be before I would reach retirement if I went in 5 years time. it’s a bit of a headache. I’ll probably contact the store for a clear answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuartjam Posted November 27, 2019 Author Share Posted November 27, 2019 ATO not store 🥵 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyNook Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 (edited) What the ATO have to say is here - https://www.ato.gov.au/forms/applying-for-a-departing-australia-super-payment/ Namely, 'If you are a former temporary resident who accumulated superannuation (super) while working in Australia you can claim your super from your super fund if all of the following are met: you entered Australia on a temporary visa listed under the Migration Act 1958(excluding subclasses 405 and 410) your visa is no longer in effect you have departed Australia you are not an Australian or New Zealand citizen, or a permanent resident of Australia.' So, no, you can't get your superannuation early if you have PR. And you should note that even if you're able to get it as a temporary resident, you'd lose a good percentage in additional tax. Edited November 27, 2019 by NickyNook 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausvisitor Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 After posting I checked the ATO (Australian tax office) and their advice in this was pretty black and white... Your super If you are an Australian citizen or permanent resident heading overseas, your super remains subject to the same rules, even if you are leaving Australia permanently. This means you cannot access your super until you reach preservation age and retire, or satisfy another condition of release. It appears the only way to get your super early if you have had PR is to have a life-limiting illness. There are a lot of articles on the web suggesting you can get a DASP refund but this only applies to temporary visas. Essentially whilst the RRV element of PR can expire a PR visa doesn't (the hint is in the word permanent). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t2529 Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 If your PR expires then would you be able to claim super? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausvisitor Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 (edited) A PR technically doesn't expire, the RRV portion does meaning you can't resume living in the country (if you are outside of Australia when it expires) but technically you are still a PR. They could grant you an RRV at any point in the future to allow you to return to Australia and continue to take advantage of your PR status. I guess maybe you could legally revoke your PR status but I'm not sure how you would do this or indeed if it is even possible Edited December 1, 2019 by Ausvisitor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t2529 Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 19 minutes ago, Ausvisitor said: A PR technically doesn't expire, the RRV portion does meaning you can't resume living in the country (if you are outside of Australia when it expires) but technically you are still a PR. They could grant you an RRV at any point in the future to allow you to return to Australia and continue to take advantage of your PR status. I guess maybe you could legally revoke your PR status but I'm not sure how you would do this or indeed if it is even possible Thanks - interesting point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulhand Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 13 hours ago, Ausvisitor said: A PR technically doesn't expire, the RRV portion does meaning you can't resume living in the country (if you are outside of Australia when it expires) but technically you are still a PR. They could grant you an RRV at any point in the future to allow you to return to Australia and continue to take advantage of your PR status. I guess maybe you could legally revoke your PR status but I'm not sure how you would do this or indeed if it is even possible On 27/11/2019 at 18:13, Ausvisitor said: Essentially whilst the RRV element of PR can expire a PR visa doesn't (the hint is in the word permanent). A permanent visa can most certainly expire; technically or otherwise, if you are offshore, and with it your status as a permanent resident. An RRV is not "a portion" of a previous visa, it is a new permanent visa granted to permanent residents, or former permanent residents, who want to maintain/resume their permanent residence status whilst travelling overseas. The 'permanent' bit is only a hint as long as you remain in Australia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausvisitor Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Thanks for clarifying Paul. I think the point still stands though that you can't opt out and withdraw superannuation if you've been a PR, or are there ways to do this as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulhand Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 39 minutes ago, Ausvisitor said: Thanks for clarifying Paul. I think the point still stands though that you can't opt out and withdraw superannuation if you've been a PR, or are there ways to do this as well? I don't disagree - but my point was that it is not a good idea to conflate the ATO view with the Immigration view on what constitutes a 'permanent resident' or indeed a 'resident' (particularly on an immigration forum). Each agency can invent whatever definition it wants in this regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t2529 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 On 02/12/2019 at 13:08, paulhand said: I don't disagree - but my point was that it is not a good idea to conflate the ATO view with the Immigration view on what constitutes a 'permanent resident' or indeed a 'resident' (particularly on an immigration forum). Each agency can invent whatever definition it wants in this regard. Hi guys, can I just clarify that the conclusion of this chat is the following? PR can expire; If you have PR and then the PR expires, you can't obtain super until retirement age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collie Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 On 02/12/2019 at 08:02, paulhand said: A permanent visa can most certainly expire; technically or otherwise, if you are offshore, and with it your status as a permanent resident. An RRV is not "a portion" of a previous visa, it is a new permanent visa granted to permanent residents, or former permanent residents, who want to maintain/resume their permanent residence status whilst travelling overseas. The 'permanent' bit is only a hint as long as you remain in Australia. This is incorrect information. Permanent residency is permanent. The travel portion has an expiry date. This can be extended by securing a RRV (Resident return visa). Easy if you are on shore and living in Australia. If you are offshore and living overseas, immigration may want some evidence of your intention to return to live in Australia in the near future (next 12 months) and may (or maynot) grant a RRV from 1 to 5 years depending on individual circumstances. To the OP's point, ypu cannot withdraw super early if you are a PR/citizen unless you satisfy the hardship reasons (eg terminal disease etc). It is not a DASP issue but a hardship issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulhand Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 3 hours ago, Collie said: This is incorrect information. No it isn’t. I suggest you check Regulation 1.03 of the Migration Regulations 1994 read with sections 82(5) and 82(6) of the Migration Act 1958 if you don’t want to take my word for it. What is incorrect information is your comment regarding RRVs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collie Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 46 minutes ago, paulhand said: No it isn’t. I suggest you check Regulation 1.03 of the Migration Regulations 1994 read with sections 82(5) and 82(6) of the Migration Act 1958 if you don’t want to take my word for it. What is incorrect information is your comment regarding RRVs. I suggest you consult a decent migration agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 3 hours ago, Collie said: I suggest you consult a decent migration agent. Paul IS a migration agent. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 (edited) On 25/12/2019 at 07:29, Marisawright said: Paul IS a migration agent. But is he decent? No one wants to see a migration agent with his trousers down! Anyway the relevant point to this discussion is that the cancellation of a PR visa doesn't turn it into a temporary visa so DASP isn't available. Edited December 27, 2019 by Ken 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Collett Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 On 25/12/2019 at 03:50, Collie said: I suggest you consult a decent migration agent. Good to see the festive spirit is still alive ... Onwards! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Collett Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 On 23/12/2019 at 12:03, t2529 said: Hi guys, can I just clarify that the conclusion of this chat is the following? PR can expire; If you have PR and then the PR expires, you can't obtain super until retirement age. https://www.superguide.com.au/accessing-superannuation/legal-ways-to-withdraw-your-super-benefits Have a look at superannuation conditions of release, as discussed here ... Best regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collie Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 On 25/12/2019 at 04:29, Marisawright said: Paul IS a migration agent. Well, his information is contrary to that of 2 well respected agents I know and the direct experience of an aquaintance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 10 hours ago, Collie said: Well, his information is contrary to that of 2 well respected agents I know and the direct experience of an aquaintance. So you mean in respect of claiming superannuation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 (edited) Darn auto-correct. That should have been, "DO you mean in respect of superannuation? The point both agents on this thread were making is that the definition of an expired permanent residency can be different from agency to agency. Immigration and the ATO have different definitions. Edited December 27, 2019 by Marisawright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collie Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 9 hours ago, Marisawright said: Darn auto-correct. That should have been, "DO you mean in respect of superannuation? No, in terms of immigration. I think there is a fairly consistent response on the super ? Temporary residents can withdraw super under DASP rules. PR / citizens can only withdraw super early under the hardship rules posted by Alan above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t2529 Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 21 hours ago, Collie said: No, in terms of immigration. I think there is a fairly consistent response on the super ? Temporary residents can withdraw super under DASP rules. PR / citizens can only withdraw super early under the hardship rules posted by Alan above. If someone were to change from PR to temporary resident would it be possible to take super out of Australia early? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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