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If I get permanent residency and leave to go back to uk will I have to leave my super until I’m at retirement age. I’ve researched in google but can’t find a definitive answer any ideas on where I can get some advise 

 

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Google will give you the answer if you read enough results.

This one from CommBank.au sums up what others say too...

 

Can you take your super overseas?

If you are on a temporary Australian visa, you can access and withdraw the super you’ve earned in Australia, taking it with you when you move overseas.

If you are an Australian citizen, or a permanent resident, you can’t take your super with you overseas. Generally, the earliest you can access your super is when you retire, or are taking steps towards retirement.

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Thanks for your reply

I’ve also read that if my pr visa expires I can then claim my super ibviously that would be before I would reach retirement if I went in 5 years time. it’s a bit of a headache.  I’ll probably contact the store for a clear answer 😬

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What the ATO have to say is here - https://www.ato.gov.au/forms/applying-for-a-departing-australia-super-payment/

Namely, 

'If you are a former temporary resident who accumulated superannuation (super) while working in Australia you can claim your super from your super fund if all of the following are met:

you entered Australia on a temporary visa listed under the Migration Act 1958(excluding subclasses 405 and 410)

your visa is no longer in effect

you have departed Australia

you are not an Australian or New Zealand citizen, or a permanent resident of Australia.'

So, no, you can't get your superannuation early if you have PR. And you should note that even if you're able to get it as a temporary resident, you'd lose a good percentage in additional tax. 

Edited by NickyNook
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After posting I checked the ATO (Australian tax office) and their advice in this was pretty black and white...

Your super

If you are an Australian citizen or permanent resident heading overseas, your super remains subject to the same rules, even if you are leaving Australia permanently. This means you cannot access your super until you reach preservation age and retire, or satisfy another condition of release.

 

 

It appears the only way to get your super early if you have had PR is to have a life-limiting illness.

There are a lot of articles on the web suggesting you can get a DASP refund but this only applies to temporary visas.

Essentially whilst the RRV element of PR can expire a PR visa doesn't (the hint is in the word permanent).

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A PR technically doesn't expire, the RRV portion does meaning you can't resume living in the country (if you are outside of Australia when it expires) but technically you are still a PR.

They could grant you an RRV at any point in the future to allow you to return to Australia and continue to take advantage of your PR status.

I guess maybe you could legally revoke your PR status but I'm not sure how you would do this or indeed if it is even possible

Edited by Ausvisitor
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19 minutes ago, Ausvisitor said:

A PR technically doesn't expire, the RRV portion does meaning you can't resume living in the country (if you are outside of Australia when it expires) but technically you are still a PR.

They could grant you an RRV at any point in the future to allow you to return to Australia and continue to take advantage of your PR status.

I guess maybe you could legally revoke your PR status but I'm not sure how you would do this or indeed if it is even possible

Thanks - interesting point.

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13 hours ago, Ausvisitor said:

A PR technically doesn't expire, the RRV portion does meaning you can't resume living in the country (if you are outside of Australia when it expires) but technically you are still a PR.

They could grant you an RRV at any point in the future to allow you to return to Australia and continue to take advantage of your PR status.

I guess maybe you could legally revoke your PR status but I'm not sure how you would do this or indeed if it is even possible

 

On 27/11/2019 at 18:13, Ausvisitor said:

Essentially whilst the RRV element of PR can expire a PR visa doesn't (the hint is in the word permanent).

A permanent visa can most certainly expire; technically or otherwise, if you are offshore, and with it your  status as a permanent resident. An RRV is not "a portion" of a previous visa, it is a new permanent visa granted to permanent residents, or former permanent residents, who want to maintain/resume their permanent residence status whilst travelling overseas. 

The 'permanent' bit is only a hint as long as you remain in Australia.


____________________________________________________________________

Paul Hand

Registered Migration Agent, MARN 1801974

SunCoast Migration Ltd

All comments are general in nature and do not constitute legal or migration advice. Comments may not be applicable or appropriate to your specific situation. Any comments relate to legislation and policy at date of post. 

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Thanks for clarifying Paul. I think the point still stands though that you can't opt out and withdraw superannuation if you've been a PR, or are there ways to do this as well?

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39 minutes ago, Ausvisitor said:

Thanks for clarifying Paul. I think the point still stands though that you can't opt out and withdraw superannuation if you've been a PR, or are there ways to do this as well?

I don't disagree - but my point was that it is not a good idea to conflate the ATO view with the Immigration view on what constitutes a 'permanent resident' or indeed a 'resident' (particularly on an immigration forum). Each agency can invent whatever definition it wants in this regard.


____________________________________________________________________

Paul Hand

Registered Migration Agent, MARN 1801974

SunCoast Migration Ltd

All comments are general in nature and do not constitute legal or migration advice. Comments may not be applicable or appropriate to your specific situation. Any comments relate to legislation and policy at date of post. 

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On 02/12/2019 at 13:08, paulhand said:

I don't disagree - but my point was that it is not a good idea to conflate the ATO view with the Immigration view on what constitutes a 'permanent resident' or indeed a 'resident' (particularly on an immigration forum). Each agency can invent whatever definition it wants in this regard.

Hi guys, can I just clarify that the conclusion of this chat is the following?

  1. PR can expire;
  2. If you have PR and then the PR expires, you can't obtain super until retirement age.

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On 02/12/2019 at 08:02, paulhand said:

 

A permanent visa can most certainly expire; technically or otherwise, if you are offshore, and with it your  status as a permanent resident. An RRV is not "a portion" of a previous visa, it is a new permanent visa granted to permanent residents, or former permanent residents, who want to maintain/resume their permanent residence status whilst travelling overseas. 

The 'permanent' bit is only a hint as long as you remain in Australia.

This is incorrect information.

Permanent residency is permanent.  The travel portion has an expiry date.  This can be extended by securing a RRV (Resident return visa).  Easy if you are on shore and living in Australia. 

If you are offshore and living overseas, immigration may want some evidence of your intention to return to live in Australia in the near future (next 12 months) and may (or maynot) grant a RRV from 1 to 5 years depending on individual circumstances.

To the OP's point, ypu cannot withdraw super early if you are a PR/citizen unless you satisfy the hardship reasons (eg terminal disease etc).

It is not a DASP issue but a hardship issue.

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3 hours ago, Collie said:

This is incorrect information.

No it isn’t. I suggest you check Regulation 1.03 of the Migration Regulations 1994 read with sections 82(5) and 82(6) of the Migration Act 1958 if you don’t want to take my word for it. 
 

What is incorrect information is your comment regarding RRVs. 


____________________________________________________________________

Paul Hand

Registered Migration Agent, MARN 1801974

SunCoast Migration Ltd

All comments are general in nature and do not constitute legal or migration advice. Comments may not be applicable or appropriate to your specific situation. Any comments relate to legislation and policy at date of post. 

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46 minutes ago, paulhand said:

No it isn’t. I suggest you check Regulation 1.03 of the Migration Regulations 1994 read with sections 82(5) and 82(6) of the Migration Act 1958 if you don’t want to take my word for it. 
 

What is incorrect information is your comment regarding RRVs. 

I suggest you consult a decent migration agent.

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3 hours ago, Collie said:

I suggest you consult a decent migration agent.

Paul IS a migration agent.

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Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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On 25/12/2019 at 07:29, Marisawright said:

Paul IS a migration agent.

But is he decent? 😜 No one wants to see a migration agent with his trousers down!

 

Anyway the relevant point to this discussion is that the cancellation of a PR visa doesn't turn it into a temporary visa so DASP isn't available.

Edited by Ken
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Chartered Accountant (England & Wales); Registered Tax Agent & Fellow of The Tax Institute (Australia)

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On 25/12/2019 at 03:50, Collie said:

I suggest you consult a decent migration agent.

Good to see the festive spirit is still alive ... 😜

Onwards!


Managing Director, Go Matilda Visas - www.gomatilda.com

Registered Migration Agent Number 0102534; Registered Tax Agent (Australia)

Chartered Accountant (UK, and Australia)

T - 023 81 66 11 55 (UK) or 03 9935 2929 (Australia)

E - alan.collett@gomatilda.com and acollett@bdhtax.com

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On 23/12/2019 at 12:03, t2529 said:

Hi guys, can I just clarify that the conclusion of this chat is the following?

  1. PR can expire;
  2. If you have PR and then the PR expires, you can't obtain super until retirement age.

https://www.superguide.com.au/accessing-superannuation/legal-ways-to-withdraw-your-super-benefits

Have a look at superannuation conditions of release, as discussed here ...

Best regards.


Managing Director, Go Matilda Visas - www.gomatilda.com

Registered Migration Agent Number 0102534; Registered Tax Agent (Australia)

Chartered Accountant (UK, and Australia)

T - 023 81 66 11 55 (UK) or 03 9935 2929 (Australia)

E - alan.collett@gomatilda.com and acollett@bdhtax.com

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On 25/12/2019 at 04:29, Marisawright said:

Paul IS a migration agent.

Well, his information is contrary to that of 2 well respected agents I know and the direct experience of an aquaintance.

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10 hours ago, Collie said:

Well, his information is contrary to that of 2 well respected agents I know and the direct experience of an aquaintance.

So you mean in respect of claiming superannuation 


Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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Darn auto-correct. That should have been, "DO you mean in respect of superannuation?

The point both agents on this thread were making is that the definition of an expired permanent residency can be different from agency to agency.  Immigration and the ATO have different definitions.

Edited by Marisawright

Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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9 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Darn auto-correct. That should have been, "DO you mean in respect of superannuation?

No, in terms of immigration.

I think there is a fairly consistent response on the super ?

Temporary residents can withdraw super under DASP rules.

PR / citizens can only withdraw super early under the hardship rules posted by Alan above.

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21 hours ago, Collie said:

No, in terms of immigration.

I think there is a fairly consistent response on the super ?

Temporary residents can withdraw super under DASP rules.

PR / citizens can only withdraw super early under the hardship rules posted by Alan above.

If someone were to change from PR to temporary resident would it be possible to take super out of Australia early?

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