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simmo

Stop the boats!

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On 03/07/2020 at 20:01, BacktoDemocracy said:

"No blacks"

"No irish"

"No dogs"

That's the sign that was up in lodging houses in England in the 50's and 60's

And your point being?

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On 03/07/2020 at 11:01, BacktoDemocracy said:

"No blacks"

"No irish"

"No dogs"

That's the sign that was up in lodging houses in England in the 50's and 60's

That's terrible. Thank god this racial segregation has stopped.  Oh hang on... Did I read that there are "no whites" events going on, on a daily basis? Surely it was just a bad dream.

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6 hours ago, Canada2Australia said:

And your point being?

My point being that statements about letting the wrong people in could be construed as aligned with notices such as the one I described

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As far as immigration is concerned they should do a very good check on backgrounds and anyone with even a sniff of criminal behaviour shouldn't be allowed in. Never mind what or why, just across the board. Also anyone who had a history of belonging to a 'gang' should not have a hope in hell, either. If they migrate and they or one of their children commits a crime within the first 10 years the whole family should be sent on the next plane back to where they came from.

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2 hours ago, simmo said:

That's terrible. Thank god this racial segregation has stopped.  Oh hang on... Did I read that there are "no whites" events going on, on a daily basis? Surely it was just a bad dream.

Hmmm

How many of those white people excluded from events are disadvantage by their exclusion

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21 minutes ago, starlight7 said:

As far as immigration is concerned they should do a very good check on backgrounds and anyone with even a sniff of criminal behaviour shouldn't be allowed in. Never mind what or why, just across the board. Also anyone who had a history of belonging to a 'gang' should not have a hope in hell, either. If they migrate and they or one of their children commits a crime within the first 10 years the whole family should be sent on the next plane back to where they came from.

Yes, those kind of blanket exclusion  policies are very reminiscent of  extremist authoritarian administrations.

Stalin and Mao used to love to disappear people to the Gulag and re-education camps because they were judged to be non citizens according to their assessment

 

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@simmo another 150 rescued and bought to shore today, in less than 6 hours! 

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Loads more have arrived over the last few days. Look at this lovely little selfie. Smile for the camera, we’ve just struck gold.

29CACFF2-AB24-48AB-8322-01A2A98D182F.png

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Apparently most of them say they haven’t got any papers or documents but they are from Iran. Most definitely don’t look like they’re from Iran but it’s all good, they can stay anyway and get transported to a 4* hotel 😡

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2 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

Apparently most of them say they haven’t got any papers or documents but they are from Iran. Most definitely don’t look like they’re from Iran but it’s all good, they can stay anyway and get transported to a 4* hotel 😡

I don't understand what the problem is. What is Priti Patel doing about it? I mean it's not like we haven't left the EU and can make our own laws now. Why don't they just send them back?

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, newjez said:

I don't understand what the problem is. What is Priti Patel doing about it? I mean it's not like we haven't left the EU and can make our own laws now. Why don't they just send them back?

I don’t think it’s anything to do with EU laws. It’s just the U.K. being too soft.   The trouble is, where’s back? We can’t send them back to their country of origin because they lie about where they’re from and have no evidence of being from anywhere. We could take them back to France but they’ll just return another day. I believe from what I’ve read is that if they are closer to the U.K. than France when picked up they’re our problem.  I think that’s international laws not EU ones. I did see something a tad funny the other day when a family from the U.K. drove to France for a holiday. They stayed in a hotel overnight when they got to France and then planned on driving to their next holiday spot. . They had a roof box on their car with all their luggage in. Overnight, 2 hopefuls had emptied the box of their luggage and stowed away in it. They’d seen the U.K. number plates and assumed they were driving back and their next stop would be back in England. The family continued their journey and in Normandy opened the box to find these 2 guys and no luggage.  The guys had spent nearly a day in the box and got out to find themselves still in France.  

Edited by Tulip1

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7 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:
8 hours ago, newjez said:

I don't understand what the problem is. What is Priti Patel doing about it? I mean it's not like we haven't left the EU and can make our own laws now. Why don't they just send them back?

I don’t think it’s anything to do with EU laws

Really? But what have people been going on about for the last five years? Take back control? Nigel's poster. We're full. All that was meant to change after brexit?

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9 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

It’s just the U.K. being too soft.

This is the most right wing anti immigration government we have ever had. Surely if they can't do it? Maybe we need a home secretary who is not an immigrant. I suspect she feels too much sympathy for them. Either that or she is just bloody incompetent. They do call her the Tory Diane Abbott. 

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13 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

international laws

But Brexit was all about taking back control! What are these international laws? Can't we just leave them?

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32 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

I don’t think it’s anything to do with EU laws. It’s just the U.K. being too soft.     

So what would you suggest, shall we just deny people their humanity.

Who will make the decisions about what to do with these people, shall we just do the same as Australia and maroon them in some godforsaken country and leave them to their fate. Look back through history and look at the administrations which have done that, a number of posters on here are scathing about China's treatment of minorities, are you willing to support that kind of action by Britain.  

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

So what would you suggest, shall we just deny people their humanity.

Who will make the decisions about what to do with these people, shall we just do the same as Australia and maroon them in some godforsaken country and leave them to their fate. Look back through history and look at the administrations which have done that, a number of posters on here are scathing about China's treatment of minorities, are you willing to support that kind of action by Britain.  

I’m certainly not willing to accept thousand and thousands of people entering the U.K. illegally, saying whatever they think will work and somehow ending up staying.  Australia may maroon them somewhere but it is a deterrent. We on the other hand put them up in hotels most of us couldn’t afford to stay in.  I’m not saying marooning them is right but it’s not right they get to stay either.  These guys, almost all young men, pay thousands to get a ride over. They look like fit and healthy, all with smart phones, descent footwear and access to money.  These are people trying their luck at getting a better life. I don’t blame them, we all want the best but life isn’t like that. They can’t just chose to rack up somewhere and stay. 

Edited by Tulip1
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1 hour ago, newjez said:

Really? But what have people been going on about for the last five years? Take back control? Nigel's poster. We're full. All that was meant to change after brexit?

Beats me. If anyone voted for Brexit believing the boats would suddenly stop coming or we’d throw back any that did get here then their not very smart. The boat people don’t care whether we are part of the EU or not, they are entering illegally so that doesn’t change a thing for them. If anything, there would be more of them because France will be less willing to stop them as we aren’t in their family anymore. I voted to remain and I never had any doubt that leaving would not stop us taking in thousands of hopefuls that racked up on our shores. There were things about Brexit I did like the sound of but no one would have been able to convince me that we would stop illegals settling or that we’d suddenly be giving the NHS all the money we gave to the EU. It was never going to happen and I’m shocked people thought it would. 

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1 hour ago, newjez said:

But Brexit was all about taking back control! What are these international laws? Can't we just leave them?

Dry humour, I like it. 

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35 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

I’m certainly not willing to accept thousand and thousands of people entering the U.K. illegally, saying whatever they think will work and somehow ending up staying.  Australia may maroon them somewhere but it is a deterrent. We on the other hand put them up in hotels most of us couldn’t afford to stay in.  I’m not saying marooning them is right but it’s not right they get to stay either.  These guys, almost all young men, pay thousands to get a ride over. They look like fit and healthy, all with smart phones, descent footwear and access to money.  These are people trying their luck at getting a better life. I don’t blame them, we all want the best but life isn’t like that. They can’t just chose to rack up somewhere and stay. 

I'm sure we could pay Iceland or Greenland to house them for us like Australia did. My only real concern is the loss of life. I mean it has cost Australia an absolute fortune to do this, and it hasn't earned them any brownie points. But it has saved lives. It would cost the UK a fortune to deal with it, and we would be criticized. But it would save lives, as it would stop them coming. Obviously a few will set fire to themselves, but I think more will be saved from drowning.

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48 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

I’m certainly not willing to accept thousand and thousands of people entering the U.K. illegally, saying whatever they think will work and somehow ending up staying.  Australia may maroon them somewhere but it is a deterrent. We on the other hand put them up in hotels most of us couldn’t afford to stay in.  I’m not saying marooning them is right but it’s not right they get to stay either.  These guys, almost all young men, pay thousands to get a ride over. They look like fit and healthy, all with smart phones, descent footwear and access to money.  These are people trying their luck at getting a better life. I don’t blame them, we all want the best but life isn’t like that. They can’t just chose to rack up somewhere and stay. 

 

32 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

Beats me. If anyone voted for Brexit believing the boats would suddenly stop coming or we’d throw back any that did get here then their not very smart. The boat people don’t care whether we are part of the EU or not, they are entering illegally so that doesn’t change a thing for them. If anything, there would be more of them because France will be less willing to stop them as we aren’t in their family anymore. I voted to remain and I never had any doubt that leaving would not stop us taking in thousands of hopefuls that racked up on our shores. There were things about Brexit I did like the sound of but no one would have been able to convince me that we would stop illegals settling or that we’d suddenly be giving the NHS all the money we gave to the EU. It was never going to happen and I’m shocked people thought it would. 

Do you understand where denying others their humanity leads, the homosexuality laws of this country up until the 60'S, Oscar Wild's persecution, 

Look up Dietrich Bonhoffer and his opposition to the fascists

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Dietrich-Bonhoeffer

Bonhoeffer: Pastor, Martyr, Prophet, Spy

Book by Eric Metaxas

WHO BETTER TO FACE THE GREATEST EVIL OF THE 20TH CENTURY THAN A HUMBLE MAN OF FAITH? As Adolf Hitler and the Nazis seduced a nation, bullied a continent, and attempted to exterminate the Jews of Europe, a small number of dissidents and saboteurs worked to dismantle the Third Reich from the inside. ...

Google Books

Man's ability to empathise is what raises him above the other orders

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1 hour ago, Tulip1 said:

I’m certainly not willing to accept thousand and thousands of people entering the U.K. illegally, saying whatever they think will work and somehow ending up staying.  Australia may maroon them somewhere but it is a deterrent. We on the other hand put them up in hotels most of us couldn’t afford to stay in.  I’m not saying marooning them is right but it’s not right they get to stay either.  These guys, almost all young men, pay thousands to get a ride over. They look like fit and healthy, all with smart phones, descent footwear and access to money.  These are people trying their luck at getting a better life. I don’t blame them, we all want the best but life isn’t like that. They can’t just chose to rack up somewhere and stay. 

Yes well this is the experience of one of those refugees

Quote

There have been times in the past 10 years, Hassan Akkad says, that his life has felt more like a movie. Thinking that occasionally kept him sane – and, more important, kept him going.

Akkad’s walk-on part in world events began in 2011, when as a young English teacher he put himself in the frontline of Arab spring democracy protests in his native Syria. He was beaten and imprisoned by the regime – and at one point given a face-to-face audience with Bashar al-Assad, his torturer, to plead his case. Having fled Damascus in fear of his life during the civil war, Akkad became for three years one of those 12 million “displaced persons” searching for a home on the six o’clock news. Unflinching cameraphone clips of his long journey to Britain – clinging to a sinking people-smuggler dinghy off the coast of Turkey, en route to the “Jungle” in Calais – made the most vivid and affecting footage of the BBC’s Bafta-winning Exodus: Our Journey to Europe series.

 Akkad's improvised speech was instrumental in another of the prime minister’s mumbled U-turns the following day
The latest act in Akkad’s Odyssean life involved another self-made video. Having taken a job as a cleaner in a Covid-19 ward at his local hospital, Whipps Cross in east London, at the start of the pandemic, in May Akkad made a heartfelt filmed address to Boris Johnson. He spoke, close to tears, into his cameraphone at the end of another draining shift. The improvised speech, made on behalf of those immigrant NHS workers shamefully excluded from the government’s bereavement compensation scheme and forced to pay a premium to use the hospitals they were risking their lives to keep afloat, was directly instrumental in another of the prime minister’s mumbled U-turns the following day.

Quote from the same article

Akkad initially responded to the recruitment drive for cleaning and portering staff at Whipps Cross hospital, 10 minutes up the road, because he felt he needed to play his part in the emergency. There was a shortage of staff because so many NHS workers were falling ill. When he began, 90% of the admissions were Covid-19 patients. He has been detained in Syrian jails, but even so, he says: “I don’t think I have ever been as scared walking into a building as I was that first day in April. Back then the level of uncertainty was very high.”

His British Ghanaian boss, Albert, who had worked the ward for 15 years, became his mate. They would arrive at seven in the morning, get into their scrubs and then get to work disinfecting everything you could see, “all the hotspots, the light switches, the toilets and the bed frames of the patients, some of whom were dying”. He was doing eight hours a day, five days a week, then coming home to his flat here and staying put, not even risking going to the shops.

In the course of his work, Akkad started to take pictures of his colleagues, which appeared in an article he wrote for Politico magazine. His friendship made the nurses and the cleaners come alive on the page. “We were 18 people on the wards, and we came from 12 countries,” he says. What sustained them was the chats that they would have during breaks. His friend and colleague Gimba, the ward host, would make her signature Nigerian jollof rice and boast about it over lunch; Akkad would make the counter-argument for hummus and falafel.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/02/hassan-akkad-for-someone-from-syria-the-creeping-authoritarianism-is-vivid-in-britain

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6 hours ago, newjez said:

But Brexit was all about taking back control! What are these international laws? Can't we just leave them?

The Dublin convention is an EU regulation. We need to dump it.

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11 hours ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

 

Do you understand where denying others their humanity leads, the homosexuality laws of this country up until the 60'S, Oscar Wild's persecution, 

Look up Dietrich Bonhoffer and his opposition to the fascists

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Dietrich-Bonhoeffer

Bonhoeffer: Pastor, Martyr, Prophet, Spy

Book by Eric Metaxas

WHO BETTER TO FACE THE GREATEST EVIL OF THE 20TH CENTURY THAN A HUMBLE MAN OF FAITH? As Adolf Hitler and the Nazis seduced a nation, bullied a continent, and attempted to exterminate the Jews of Europe, a small number of dissidents and saboteurs worked to dismantle the Third Reich from the inside. ...

Google Books

Man's ability to empathise is what raises him above the other orders

It’s not denying people their humanity. It’s just saying you can’t always chose where you want to live. Someone not getting what they want doesn’t equal denying them their humanity. Honest answer please, are you happy for them to turn up here in their thousands and get to stay at an enormous cost to the country?  Can I save myself visa fees and just turn up in Australia one day and remain there as if they say I can’t it’s denying me of humanity? Of course it’s not.  I want doesn’t always get as my mum used to tell us.  
 

I do empathise. I realise to be born a British Citizen makes me luckier than so many,  It’s a lottery of life where you are born and I did better than those that are trying to get here.  I really do realise that and I understand why they want to get here. That still does not mean we can open the gates. We do offer sanctuary to many genuine cases but most of these are just trying their luck and you can’t hold a hand out to the whole world. 

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