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BacktoDemocracy

Australia and Climate Change

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Is it really true that Australia accounts for only about 1.5 per cent of all the emissions? If it is true then even if Australia achieved 100 per cent renewable energy and closed down all its coal and gas exporting industries, what then? I understand that China is not going to doing anything about its emissions until 2030 and its yearly emissions are many times greater than Australia's.

I heard a guy on the ABC telling the presenter that because Australia is the number one exporter of coal and gas we are a major, if not THE major contributor to global emissions. I was hoping that the presenter would ask him what shutting down those industries would mean to both the Australian economy and the countries which buy the coal and gas? Would they just turn to other suppliers perhaps, ones who produce a lesser, i.e. more polluting form of coal.

Oh well, if we believe the "alarmists" this is now "August, 1939" and we all know what happened in September, 1939.

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5 hours ago, Parley said:

They said the same thing about newspapers 20 years ago.

Exactly

quote

2010 to presentEdit

Figures shown are average circulations for January of each year. Regardless of immediate source, all figures originate from the Audit Bureau of Circulations.

Title 2019[9] 2018[10] 2017[11] 2016[12] 2015[13] 2014[14] 2013[15] 2012[16] 2011[17] 2010[18][19]
Metro 1,426,050 1,475,372 1,476,956 1,348,033 ? 1,362,893[20] ? ? ? ?
The Sun 1,410,896 1,545,594 1,666,715 1,787,096 1,978,702 2,213,659 2,409,811 2,582,301 3,001,822 3,006,565
Daily Mail 1,246,568 1,343,142 1,511,357 1,589,471 1,688,727 1,780,565 1,863,151 1,945,496 2,136,568 2,120,347
Evening Standard 864,620 888,017 887,253 898,407 877,532[21] 805,309[22] 695,645[23] 699,368[24] 704,008[25] 601,960[26]
Daily Mirror 508,705 583,192 724,888 809,147 922,235 992,256 1,058,488 1,102,810 1,194,097 1,218,425
The Times 417,298 440,558 451,261 404,155 396,621 384,304 399,339 397,549 457,250 508,250
The Daily Telegraph 360,345 385,346 472,258 472,033 494,675 544,546 555,817 578,774 651,184 691,128
Daily Star 329,971 391,998 443,452 470,369 425,246 489,067 535,957 617,082 734,311 779,376
Daily Express 321,146 364,721 392,526 408,700 457,914 500,473 529,648 577,543 639,875 674,640
i 233,868 257,223 266,768 271,859 280,351 298,266 293,946 264,432 133,472 N/A
Financial Times 180,053 189,579 188,924 198,237 219,444 234,193 275,375 316,493 383,067 390,315
The Guardian 141,160 152,714 156,756 164,163 185,429 207,958 204,440 215,988 279,308 302,285
Daily Record 119,328 134,087 155,772 176,892 203,725 227,639 251,535 291,825 306,872 323,831
City A.M. 85,982 90,569 90,319 97,259 ? ? ? ? ? ?
The Independent N/A N/A N/A 55,193 61,338 66,576 76,802 105,160 185,035 185,815
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2 minutes ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

Exactly

quote

2010 to presentEdit

Figures shown are average circulations for January of each year. Regardless of immediate source, all figures originate from the Audit Bureau of Circulations.

Title 2019[9] 2018[10] 2017[11] 2016[12] 2015[13] 2014[14] 2013[15] 2012[16] 2011[17] 2010[18][19]
Metro 1,426,050 1,475,372 1,476,956 1,348,033 ? 1,362,893[20] ? ? ? ?
The Sun 1,410,896 1,545,594 1,666,715 1,787,096 1,978,702 2,213,659 2,409,811 2,582,301 3,001,822 3,006,565
Daily Mail 1,246,568 1,343,142 1,511,357 1,589,471 1,688,727 1,780,565 1,863,151 1,945,496 2,136,568 2,120,347
Evening Standard 864,620 888,017 887,253 898,407 877,532[21] 805,309[22] 695,645[23] 699,368[24] 704,008[25] 601,960[26]
Daily Mirror 508,705 583,192 724,888 809,147 922,235 992,256 1,058,488 1,102,810 1,194,097 1,218,425
The Times 417,298 440,558 451,261 404,155 396,621 384,304 399,339 397,549 457,250 508,250
The Daily Telegraph 360,345 385,346 472,258 472,033 494,675 544,546 555,817 578,774 651,184 691,128
Daily Star 329,971 391,998 443,452 470,369 425,246 489,067 535,957 617,082 734,311 779,376
Daily Express 321,146 364,721 392,526 408,700 457,914 500,473 529,648 577,543 639,875 674,640
i 233,868 257,223 266,768 271,859 280,351 298,266 293,946 264,432 133,472 N/A
Financial Times 180,053 189,579 188,924 198,237 219,444 234,193 275,375 316,493 383,067 390,315
The Guardian 141,160 152,714 156,756 164,163 185,429 207,958 204,440 215,988 279,308 302,285
Daily Record 119,328 134,087 155,772 176,892 203,725 227,639 251,535 291,825 306,872 323,831
City A.M. 85,982 90,569 90,319 97,259 ? ? ? ? ? ?
The Independent N/A N/A N/A 55,193 61,338 66,576 76,802 105,160 185,035 185,815

The Standard only went up because they changed it to a free newspaper.

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1 hour ago, MARYROSE02 said:

Is it really true that Australia accounts for only about 1.5 per cent of all the emissions? If it is true then even if Australia achieved 100 per cent renewable energy and closed down all its coal and gas exporting industries, what then? I understand that China is not going to doing anything about its emissions until 2030 and its yearly emissions are many times greater than Australia's.

I heard a guy on the ABC telling the presenter that because Australia is the number one exporter of coal and gas we are a major, if not THE major contributor to global emissions. I was hoping that the presenter would ask him what shutting down those industries would mean to both the Australian economy and the countries which buy the coal and gas? Would they just turn to other suppliers perhaps, ones who produce a lesser, i.e. more polluting form of coal.

Oh well, if we believe the "alarmists" this is now "August, 1939" and we all know what happened in September, 1939.

I do agree that is nonsense.  The contributors are principally those countries burning the fuel.

Given Australia’s climate, land mass and low population then almost no country in the world is better placed to end reliance on fossil fuels for energy generation.

Other countries, such as China, face greater challenges but it is a nonsense to suggest that they are doing nothing.  Research it before commenting.

However just because other people drop litter doesn’t mean that you have an entitlement to do so.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

Is it really true that Australia accounts for only about 1.5 per cent of all the emissions? If it is true then even if Australia achieved 100 per cent renewable energy and closed down all its coal and gas exporting industries, what then? I understand that China is not going to doing anything about its emissions until 2030 and its yearly emissions are many times greater than Australia's.

I heard a guy on the ABC telling the presenter that because Australia is the number one exporter of coal and gas we are a major, if not THE major contributor to global emissions. I was hoping that the presenter would ask him what shutting down those industries would mean to both the Australian economy and the countries which buy the coal and gas? Would they just turn to other suppliers perhaps, ones who produce a lesser, i.e. more polluting form of coal.

Oh well, if we believe the "alarmists" this is now "August, 1939" and we all know what happened in September, 1939.

oz Per person has the biggest footprint in the world, its pathetic and sad that you say boooo hooo we aint doing it because they aint doing it, Oz will suffer more than most, you have already destroyed the great barrier reef...good luck in the future mate, dont forget the sun cream

Edited by Perthbum

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Australia On Track to be Among the World's Worst Climate Change Contributors

Australia is being blamed for 5% of all greenhouse gases emitted around the world and is on track to be the culprit for as much as 17% by 2030 if its fossil fuel exports are taken into consideration, new research from Climate Analytics found. 

To put it in perspective, Australia's carbon footprint is equal to the total emissions of Russia, which ranks fifth in producing greenhouse gases. Currently, the country is the biggest coal exporter, representing 29% of all traded coal in 2016. It's on track to be the worlds largest natural gas exporter as well. Both produce carbon dioxide that is playing a major role in climate change. 

RELATED: CHECK THIS INTERACTIVE MAP TO SEE HOW CLIMATE CHANGE WILL AFFECT YOUR TOWN

 “Australia is one of the highest per capita CO2 emitters in the world. On a per capita basis, Australia’s carbon footprint, including exports, surpasses China by a factor of 9, the US by a factor of 4 and India by a factor of 37," Climate Analytics wrote in its research report. "If the current government and industry projections for fossil fuel exports are realised, Australia could be responsible (including both domestic and exported emissions) for about 13% (between 11.9% - 17.4%) of Paris Agreement compatible global CO2 emissions in 2030."

Australia Slow To Fight Climate Change 

While Australia is part of the Paris Agreement, which calls for temperatures to be limited it to 1.5°C, the country isn't doing much to reduce its domestic greenhouse gas emissions in a timely manner. Climate Analytics found in order for Australia to meet the long term temperature goal of the treaty it has to move quickly, something it has yet to do.

In fact, the researchers predict emissions in the country will likely continue to increase through 2030, falling way short of 26% to 28% reduction below the 2005 target it needs to meet under the Paris Agreement. "We find that Australia´s domestic total direct CO2 emissions from fossil fuel combustion (excluding fugitive emissions) will be about the same as 2005 levels by 2030. Including fugitive emissions, the emissions from fossil fuel use are projected to be about 15% higher by 2030 than in 2005," the researchers wrote.

Australian Fossil Fuels Should Stay in Ground

The Australian Conservation Foundation commissioned the research and said that in response to the findings that Australia is moving steadily to become one of the world's worst contributors to climate change. Burning coal and gas are the leading causes of global warming and with Australia, the number one exporter of both it is playing an outsized role in the warming of the planet. 

“When we add Australia’s exported emissions to our domestic emissions, Australia rockets to equal fifth on the list of major global climate polluters, alongside Russia and behind only India, the European Union, the USA and China," the group said“Instead of encouraging new fossil fuel projects, a responsible Federal Government would recognise that most of Australia’s fossil fuel reserves must stay in the ground and would facilitate the necessary rapid transition to clean, renewable energy, while working actively to support communities that will be affected by this transition.”

https://interestingengineering.com/australia-on-track-to-be-among-the-worlds-worst-climate-change-contributors


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9 hours ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

Exactly

quote

2010 to presentEdit

Figures shown are average circulations for January of each year. Regardless of immediate source, all figures originate from the Audit Bureau of Circulations.

Title 2019[9] 2018[10] 2017[11] 2016[12] 2015[13] 2014[14] 2013[15] 2012[16] 2011[17] 2010[18][19]
Metro 1,426,050 1,475,372 1,476,956 1,348,033 ? 1,362,893[20] ? ? ? ?
The Sun 1,410,896 1,545,594 1,666,715 1,787,096 1,978,702 2,213,659 2,409,811 2,582,301 3,001,822 3,006,565
Daily Mail 1,246,568 1,343,142 1,511,357 1,589,471 1,688,727 1,780,565 1,863,151 1,945,496 2,136,568 2,120,347
Evening Standard 864,620 888,017 887,253 898,407 877,532[21] 805,309[22] 695,645[23] 699,368[24] 704,008[25] 601,960[26]
Daily Mirror 508,705 583,192 724,888 809,147 922,235 992,256 1,058,488 1,102,810 1,194,097 1,218,425
The Times 417,298 440,558 451,261 404,155 396,621 384,304 399,339 397,549 457,250 508,250
The Daily Telegraph 360,345 385,346 472,258 472,033 494,675 544,546 555,817 578,774 651,184 691,128
Daily Star 329,971 391,998 443,452 470,369 425,246 489,067 535,957 617,082 734,311 779,376
Daily Express 321,146 364,721 392,526 408,700 457,914 500,473 529,648 577,543 639,875 674,640
i 233,868 257,223 266,768 271,859 280,351 298,266 293,946 264,432 133,472 N/A
Financial Times 180,053 189,579 188,924 198,237 219,444 234,193 275,375 316,493 383,067 390,315
The Guardian 141,160 152,714 156,756 164,163 185,429 207,958 204,440 215,988 279,308 302,285
Daily Record 119,328 134,087 155,772 176,892 203,725 227,639 251,535 291,825 306,872 323,831
City A.M. 85,982 90,569 90,319 97,259 ? ? ? ? ? ?
The Independent N/A N/A N/A 55,193 61,338 66,576 76,802 105,160 185,035 185,815

So of Britain's population still about 8 million newspapers are sold a month in 2019.

Not dead yet.


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14 minutes ago, Parley said:

So of Britain's population still about 8 million newspapers are sold a month in 2019.

Not dead yet.

Those are daily circulation figures, not monthly sales.  Bear in mind that Metro, City AM and Evening Standard are all free newspapers so deduct 2.4 million of ‘sales’’.

So, by my rough calculation sales roughly 5.3 million daily.

The total number of registered voters in the UK is roughly 48 million.  Therefore 1 in 9 of these buy a newspaper.  I am willing to bet that almost all of these are over 50 years old.  Newspapers will die as the older generation dies.

 

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40 minutes ago, Perthbum said:

oz Per person has the biggest footprint in the world, its pathetic and sad that you say boooo hooo we aint doing it because they aint doing it, Oz will suffer more than most, you have already destroyed the great barrier reef...good luck in the future mate, dont forget the sun cream

So that you are aware.

Ultra-violet radiation (UV) from the sun is not linked to climate change or increasing temperatures.

The earth’s ozone layer acts as a barrier to UV radiation and chemicals such as CFC’s weakened that layer particularly in the southern hemisphere.  Banning CFCs has started to repair the damaged ozone layer in our atmosphere but it will take a long time.

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3 minutes ago, Gbye grey sky said:

So that you are aware.

Ultra-violet radiation (UV) from the sun is not linked to climate change or increasing temperatures.

The earth’s ozone layer acts as a barrier to UV radiation and chemicals such as CFC’s weakened that layer particularly in the southern hemisphere.  Banning CFCs has started to repair the damaged ozone layer in our atmosphere but it will take a long time.

As posted before China guilty of pumping tons of banned cfc’s into atmosphere, picked up by American satellite, every country needs to play its part. 

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16 minutes ago, Rallyman said:

As posted before China guilty of pumping tons of banned cfc’s into atmosphere, picked up by American satellite, every country needs to play its part. 

These are global problems so that is true.

This does not however justify the argument often posited that doing anything is pointless because someone else may not be.

I want countries like Australia and the UK to show leadership, not follow reluctantly dragging their heels.

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5 minutes ago, Gbye grey sky said:

These are global problems so that is true.

This does not however justify the argument often posited that doing anything is pointless because someone else may not be.

I want countries like Australia and the UK to show leadership, not follow reluctantly dragging their heels.

UK does Australians have the biggest footprint per person in the world.


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15 minutes ago, Perthbum said:

UK does Australians have the biggest footprint per person in the world.

Still having a bash at oz PB , how are these figures calculated 

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7 hours ago, Perthbum said:

Australia On Track to be Among the World's Worst Climate Change Contributors

Australia is being blamed for 5% of all greenhouse gases emitted around the world and is on track to be the culprit for as much as 17% by 2030 if its fossil fuel exports are taken into consideration, new research from Climate Analytics found. 

To put it in perspective, Australia's carbon footprint is equal to the total emissions of Russia, which ranks fifth in producing greenhouse gases. Currently, the country is the biggest coal exporter, representing 29% of all traded coal in 2016. It's on track to be the worlds largest natural gas exporter as well. Both produce carbon dioxide that is playing a major role in climate change. 

RELATED: CHECK THIS INTERACTIVE MAP TO SEE HOW CLIMATE CHANGE WILL AFFECT YOUR TOWN

 “Australia is one of the highest per capita CO2 emitters in the world. On a per capita basis, Australia’s carbon footprint, including exports, surpasses China by a factor of 9, the US by a factor of 4 and India by a factor of 37," Climate Analytics wrote in its research report. "If the current government and industry projections for fossil fuel exports are realised, Australia could be responsible (including both domestic and exported emissions) for about 13% (between 11.9% - 17.4%) of Paris Agreement compatible global CO2 emissions in 2030."

Australia Slow To Fight Climate Change 

While Australia is part of the Paris Agreement, which calls for temperatures to be limited it to 1.5°C, the country isn't doing much to reduce its domestic greenhouse gas emissions in a timely manner. Climate Analytics found in order for Australia to meet the long term temperature goal of the treaty it has to move quickly, something it has yet to do.

In fact, the researchers predict emissions in the country will likely continue to increase through 2030, falling way short of 26% to 28% reduction below the 2005 target it needs to meet under the Paris Agreement. "We find that Australia´s domestic total direct CO2 emissions from fossil fuel combustion (excluding fugitive emissions) will be about the same as 2005 levels by 2030. Including fugitive emissions, the emissions from fossil fuel use are projected to be about 15% higher by 2030 than in 2005," the researchers wrote.

Australian Fossil Fuels Should Stay in Ground

The Australian Conservation Foundation commissioned the research and said that in response to the findings that Australia is moving steadily to become one of the world's worst contributors to climate change. Burning coal and gas are the leading causes of global warming and with Australia, the number one exporter of both it is playing an outsized role in the warming of the planet. 

“When we add Australia’s exported emissions to our domestic emissions, Australia rockets to equal fifth on the list of major global climate polluters, alongside Russia and behind only India, the European Union, the USA and China," the group said“Instead of encouraging new fossil fuel projects, a responsible Federal Government would recognise that most of Australia’s fossil fuel reserves must stay in the ground and would facilitate the necessary rapid transition to clean, renewable energy, while working actively to support communities that will be affected by this transition.”

https://interestingengineering.com/australia-on-track-to-be-among-the-worlds-worst-climate-change-contributors

"Per Capita" is a bs statistic designed to  make the figures worse than they really are. Australia is responsible for 1.5 per cent of the total, period. If it was contributing to the world total the way that China, India or the USA that would be different. Notice how the ACTUAL total contributions of those countries are ignored.

If the other producers of coal and gas agree to stop producing at the same time as Australia, fine, but in the meantime why should Australia destroy its own economy?

Plus, all those researchers you quote are biased, pushing their own agendas, unnecessarily scaring gullible people.

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6 hours ago, Rallyman said:

Still having a bash at oz PB , how are these figures calculated 

Who cares about the "per person" bs? It is the TOTAL  that counts and countries like China and India are the main culprits which you would expect with 3 billion people and two countries trying to provide power for all of their peoples. 25 million people versus 3 billion and the two countries with the 3 billion are furiously building more and more power stations which need Aussie coal, no doubt. China is allegedly "meeting its target under the Paris agreement" but that also means that nothing concrete will be done until 2030 at the earliest.

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6 hours ago, Gbye grey sky said:

These are global problems so that is true.

This does not however justify the argument often posited that doing anything is pointless because someone else may not be.

I want countries like Australia and the UK to show leadership, not follow reluctantly dragging their heels.

Show leadership? That old chestnut. Get rid of our nuclear weapons first and show leadership, as if the US, Russia, India, Pakistan, North Korea, Israel, etc, would give a damn. Ditto "Unilateral Disarmament"  and appeasement in the 1930's.

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53 minutes ago, MARYROSE02 said:

Who cares about the "per person" bs? It is the TOTAL  that counts and countries like China and India are the main culprits which you would expect with 3 billion people and two countries trying to provide power for all of their peoples. 25 million people versus 3 billion and the two countries with the 3 billion are furiously building more and more power stations which need Aussie coal, no doubt. China is allegedly "meeting its target under the Paris agreement" but that also means that nothing concrete will be done until 2030 at the earliest.

This is my thinking as well MR , I just can’t see as a total producing more pollution than China 

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8 hours ago, Gbye grey sky said:

Those are daily circulation figures, not monthly sales.  Bear in mind that Metro, City AM and Evening Standard are all free newspapers so deduct 2.4 million of ‘sales’’.

So, by my rough calculation sales roughly 5.3 million daily.

The total number of registered voters in the UK is roughly 48 million.  Therefore 1 in 9 of these buy a newspaper.  I am willing to bet that almost all of these are over 50 years old.  Newspapers will die as the older generation dies.

 

That is a lot of people buying papers then. Thriving.

The papers wont die but more people read them in a different way and people's acceptance of subscribing to read online is growing.


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2 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

"Per Capita" is a bs statistic designed to  make the figures worse than they really are. Australia is responsible for 1.5 per cent of the total, period. If it was contributing to the world total the way that China, India or the USA that would be different. Notice how the ACTUAL total contributions of those countries are ignored.

If the other producers of coal and gas agree to stop producing at the same time as Australia, fine, but in the meantime why should Australia destroy its own economy?

Plus, all those researchers you quote are biased, pushing their own agendas, unnecessarily scaring gullible people.

You don't believe in leading by example then?

You don't think Australia fights above its weight In South East Asia, and would be an ideal leader amongst the other smaller nations to influence the big players?

Or you just don't think we should give a shit because the big guys don't?

Doesn't sound very Australian to me mate.

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8 hours ago, Rallyman said:

Still having a bash at oz PB , how are these figures calculated 

Not having a go just stating facts, its your governments who are to blame blatantly ignoring the threats.

 

Australia has one of the highest per capita emissions of carbon dioxide in the world, with its 0.3% of the world's population releasing 1.3% of the world's greenhouse gases.[1] It was 18.3 tonnes per year per person


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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

"Per Capita" is a bs statistic designed to  make the figures worse than they really are. Australia is responsible for 1.5 per cent of the total, period. If it was contributing to the world total the way that China, India or the USA that would be different. Notice how the ACTUAL total contributions of those countries are ignored.

If the other producers of coal and gas agree to stop producing at the same time as Australia, fine, but in the meantime why should Australia destroy its own economy?

Plus, all those researchers you quote are biased, pushing their own agendas, unnecessarily scaring gullible people.

You are kidding me, even a child could see its the only way to get a true reflection,  there is nowhere to hide when per capita is used, you can say look at Brazil for instance they are worse than us, but when you put it down to (per person) they are not, its the only way to get a true reflection on how badly a country is abusing the world. Only an idiot would say "look at China they are far worse than us" when their population is 50 times larger than your country....think about it.

Edited by Perthbum

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1 hour ago, Parley said:

That is a lot of people buying papers then. Thriving.

The papers wont die but more people read them in a different way and people's acceptance of subscribing to read online is growing.

Yes, old people.

Every time an old customer dies they don’t find a new young replacement.  Newspapers will cease to exist as we have known them before the internal combustion engine is replaced......but it may be a close-run thing.


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2 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

Show leadership? That old chestnut. Get rid of our nuclear weapons first and show leadership, as if the US, Russia, India, Pakistan, North Korea, Israel, etc, would give a damn. Ditto "Unilateral Disarmament"  and appeasement in the 1930's.

Crikey!  I think Australia should strive to be the best but you think that Australia should be amongst the worst.

I didn’t figure you for one of the Oz haters on this site.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Gbye grey sky said:

Crikey!  I think Australia should strive to be the best but you think that Australia should be amongst the worst.

I didn’t figure you for one of the Oz haters on this site.

You are not an oz hater if you post facts about the Australian government ignoring climate change. Per person Australians are   very near the top for individual  footprint, that is shocking for a so called first world country.

Edited by Perthbum

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