Parent visa application timelines (143 & 173)

[Ollie1234]

8 hours ago, Biggsy said:

Yes immi still telling lies misleading and taking application fees from parents who will have no chance of even living long enough to be granted visas.

Shame on them, they are a disgrace. No other words!

This is what really bugs me. There is literally no reason why they can't make this clearer to people who are making big, expensive life decisions. It's a total money grab! 

[Kathss56]

This is the one to help I’m sure   I’ve mentioned him before to you  this post is his today on Facebook 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Kathss56

[Kathss56]

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/greens-push-for-inquiry-to-overhaul-the-broken-system-of-family-visa-approvals?cid=sbsnews:edm:newspm:relation:news:na:na

[BargeUK]

On 03/02/2021 at 10:39, NatS259 said:

When do you fly? You can't be too far from my mums flight (May 5th!) Fingers crossed everything goes smoothly!

Hi Nat.  Where is your mum flying to?  We're heading to Melbourne - total nightmare at the moment!  House is sold, we have to be out by mid March so homeless after 40 years of marriage, flights booked at great expense, belongings getting shipped in March so we're down to what we can fit in our suitcases and Victoria has closed its borders to international flights!  We were so excited to get our visas after such a long wait but we just seem to have lurched from crisis to crisis since then.  Fingers and toes crossed that they open their borders fairly soon.  I know we're not the only ones in this position and we really appreciate having our visas but this part is also extremely stressful

[MELBNGSM]

22 hours ago, Ollie1234 said:

This is what really bugs me. There is literally no reason why they can't make this clearer to people who are making big, expensive life decisions. It's a total money grab! 

Understand the frustration. The system isn’t working. Money is primary objective yes, also time. Time is more important than money and often people put them in the same basket. 
We have chosen to pay more money for the visa, but on the 'hope' or somewhat 'certainty' that we will get it sooner, so the families can be reunited here in Australia. But the delay we are seeing aren’t justifiable.
System is non-functional. It needs an overhaul. 

Edited February 19, 2021 by MELBNGSM

[Marisawright]

22 hours ago, Kathss56 said:

This is the one to help I’m sure   I’ve mentioned him before to you  this post is his today on Facebook 

My concern would be "be careful what you wish for".   The government has already done research showing parents and dependents cost the government far more than they contribute (and let's not get into tangible vs intangible benefits:  government bean counters don't do intangibles).   Because of that, I'm sure they'd rather discontinue those visas in all but exceptional circumstances.   However, they've judged it would be too much of a political hot potato and that's why they're using delaying tactics instead.   

I just wonder, if they are pushed into making a decision, whether it might not go the way people are hoping for.   The government would only have to raise the spectre of hordes of Asian grannies bludging off the pension system, and then let loose the likes of Alan Jones.

[ramot]

23 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

My concern would be "be careful what you wish for".   The government has already done research showing parents and dependents cost the government far more than they contribute (and let's not get into tangible vs intangible benefits:  government bean counters don't do intangibles).   Because of that, I'm sure they'd rather discontinue those visas in all but exceptional circumstances.   However, they've judged it would be too much of a political hot potato and that's why they're using delaying tactics instead.   

I just wonder, if they are pushed into making a decision, whether it might not go the way people are hoping for.   The government would only have to raise the spectre of hordes of Asian grannies bludging off the pension system, and then let loose the likes of Alan Jones.

I agree with your concerns, I know I harp back to the student visa retrospective changes by Chris Evans in 2010? when approximately 20,000 students who had  already lodged and paid  their application fee for PR had their applications cancelled. I appreciate different circumstances but it was totally unexpected and caused great upset, the government kept them on bridging visas as they were onshore, for at least 3 years, before telling them they had to leave in a short space of time, after living here for years, but the government didn’t care, and the students had to fight hard to get the promised return of their paid visa fees returned.

There is a train of thought that even though an application for PR has been applied for, does it give the applicants any rights, irrespective of how unfair that feels. I genuinely have no idea what the legal status an applicant has if any? It would be interesting and perhaps useful to find out.

[Ollie1234]

 

On 19/02/2021 at 08:47, Marisawright said:

My concern would be "be careful what you wish for".   The government has already done research showing parents and dependents cost the government far more than they contribute (and let's not get into tangible vs intangible benefits:  government bean counters don't do intangibles).   Because of that, I'm sure they'd rather discontinue those visas in all but exceptional circumstances.   However, they've judged it would be too much of a political hot potato and that's why they're using delaying tactics instead.   

I just wonder, if they are pushed into making a decision, whether it might not go the way people are hoping for.   The government would only have to raise the spectre of hordes of Asian grannies bludging off the pension system, and then let loose the likes of Alan Jones.

I'd rather fight and know where I stand. I'd also rather right and prevent thousands of others paying up for something they have little chance of ever getting. 

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Ollie1234 said:

 

I'd rather fight and know where I stand. I'd also rather right and prevent thousands of others paying up for something they have little chance of ever getting. 

I do see the point in fighting to make them publish a predictive processing time (instead of the current policy of publishing the historical processing time).   That's a simple change and there's no justifiable reason for them not to do it.  However if that small policy change gets lost in a bigger campaign to "let the parents in", which I think could backfire, then it would be a shame.

Edited February 21, 2021 by Marisawright

[Sherlock]

2 hours ago, Ollie1234 said:

 

I'd rather fight and know where I stand. I'd also rather right and prevent thousands of others paying up for something they have little chance of ever getting. 

I'm with you! Rather than worrying about what whims and fancies our politicians might have, I would rather fight to make the system more transparent, and make it easier for others like me to make their life and family decisions based on the real information.

[Newlife]

I totally agree I would rather have clear guideline  on times even if they are only granting 4950 a year or less going forward. But create a sustainable plan that anyone deciding to apply understands and therefore accepts when applying.  

[Karl D]

I think I’d rather know the real wait time, we were informed 24/36 months initially ( verbally by an agent ) before we applied. This we soon realised was 48/60 months. Now, with the tables of published data It’s looking like maybe 10 years or more. 
 

sad end to the weekend.

[Ollie1234]

13 hours ago, Sherlock said:

I'm with you! Rather than worrying about what whims and fancies our politicians might have, I would rather fight to make the system more transparent, and make it easier for others like me to make their life and family decisions based on the real information.

Couldn't agree more. The system needs to be made fair, I don't think that's a big ask. 

[Ollie1234]

9 hours ago, Newlife said:

I totally agree I would rather have clear guideline  on times even if they are only granting 4950 a year or less going forward. But create a sustainable plan that anyone deciding to apply understands and therefore accepts when applying.  

Absolutely, a lot of people in a mess because the gov can't be arsed to provide facts. 

[Ollie1234]

5 hours ago, Karl D said:

I think I’d rather know the real wait time, we were informed 24/36 months initially ( verbally by an agent ) before we applied. This we soon realised was 48/60 months. Now, with the tables of published data It’s looking like maybe 10 years or more. 
 

sad end to the weekend.

You can me both Karl D. I chased the agent and they pointed to the website where it clearly backs up what he said. We both know it's not true, but where do you go from there?! 

[Tulip1]

There is nothing wrong with wanting and expecting timescales to be correct on the website.  Marisa herself agreed with this. What she also touched on though is how far this stretched outside of this ask. Many times on here we’ve seen people wanting answers as to why the queue is so long, why can’t they give out more visas and about the effect it has on families. If this sort of thing is going around (not the simple wish for up to date queue times) then the whole thing may fall into the too difficult box and the talks of let’s try and get rid of these visas may start up.  They don’t want a load of olds going there to live, they just allow a certain amount to be descent.  I get the frustration when the website says 4 years when it will be 10 and completely understand asking for that to change.  It just needs to be done carefully and not get mumbled into a moan about how long people are being kept away from their kids/grandkids. It’s not their fault or problem kids moved away from their parents causing the separation. The actual getting a chance of the visa is something we should be grateful for and not moaning about, the incorrect information on the website about queue times should be dealt with for sure. 

[ramot]

10 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

There is nothing wrong with wanting and expecting timescales to be correct on the website.  Marisa herself agreed with this. What she also touched on though is how far this stretched outside of this ask. Many times on here we’ve seen people wanting answers as to why the queue is so long, why can’t they give out more visas and about the effect it has on families. If this sort of thing is going around (not the simple wish for up to date queue times) then the whole thing may fall into the too difficult box and the talks of let’s try and get rid of these visas may start up.  They don’t want a load of olds going there to live, they just allow a certain amount to be descent.  I get the frustration when the website says 4 years when it will be 10 and completely understand asking for that to change.  It just needs to be done carefully and not get mumbled into a moan about how long people are being kept away from their kids/grandkids. It’s not their fault or problem kids moved away from their parents causing the separation. The actual getting a chance of the visa is something we should be grateful for and not moaning about, the incorrect information on the website about queue times should be dealt with for sure. 

I completely agree with Tulip 1’s post above, on both the need for the length of the waiting time for the parent visas to be processed on the government’s web site should present a realistic time scale. When we applied for the 864 visa in February 2017 the processing time was “1 year” !!!

Plus the misconception of the parent visa applicants, complaining that because of the long wait they are missing out on time with their grandchildren, and or that they are needed here as unpaid baby sitters, that the government will care. It couldn’t care less. The government is however concerned with the cost to the country of too many old people coming here who have never paid tax here, who will end up costing the country more than they have contributed. Not every parent comes with sufficient funds to support themselves long term.

[LindaH27]

One of the problems with the increase in wait time is that more and more people of pension age are now deciding to change to 804 loophole, where they go over on a holiday visa and apply on shore. They get to wait out their time on shore but although it’s taking 30 years to grant they’re not bothered and will happily move over.  If they are from a country that has a reciprocal health agreement with Australia they get a fair bit of help with health problems and with not paying the high contributory fees,  that means there’s a lot of private health insurance they could buy if they decide to do that. . They can purchase homes -  it’s more expensive to buy as a temporary resident - but again they’ve saving on paying  the contributory  amount. 

The govt will end up with a lot more older people there but who won’t have paid the large amount towards Medicare that contributory applicants do. So they will start looking at this again (already tried once to get rid of it) and probably stop it. But it means they will start looking at other visas too. I don’t know which way they will jump. The reason there had been a huge surge in applications in 2016 and 2017 is due to the Productivity Commission review where they looked at all the visas. The recommendations for parent visas were that 1) they introduced a temporary long term parent visa, 2) that they only allowed 804 on compassionate grounds  3) the contributory visas fees should be vastly increased and 4) that there should be Cap on contributory visas.

Two of those 4 have already happened ie cap reduced to 4500 last year and temporary long term visa now available , the 870. 
People rushed to get their applications in before these recommendations took effect - particularly the proposed increased amount payable for 143 which is why the surge in Numbers happened. Obviously the govt  is currently pretty tied up with things to do with the pandemic but make no mistake they are still considering those recommendations and the more noise about the visas they hear, it  may trigger things a bit earlier!  I believe Senator McKim has pushed for an inquiry so there may be an answer from the govt to be rolled out during that. The govt  were happy to disclose figures/times/increased availability  on partner visas but didn’t say anything about parent visas - except to say they were subject to capping and queueing., but they are making changes in the background. Obviously last year they reduced the cap to 4500. But they also made a change in October  whereby applications after June 2018 no longer had their application date as their queue date but would now be subject to (like 804) a review before then being put in the queue and being given a queue date which you can now see on the emails where they state the dates they are currently processing etc. This will have the effect of increasing the wait time like the 804. 

So behind the scenes they are looking at these visas  - and I doubt in a good way!!

Bur I do agree there should be more clarity about wait times because people are still paying money to put applications in, under incorrect ideas of wait times. 

[Arti]

The most unfortunate bit of it all is we are talking about parents here. They are a vulnerable section of the society that need to be with their families the most through their last years. I'm not sure there'd be many parents out there willing to jump all the different visa hoops there are and go through the exponentially increased wait times willingly anymore. It's a sad reality and one can only hope things get better from here.

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Arti

[Tulip1]

5 hours ago, Arti said:

The most unfortunate bit of it all is we are talking about parents here. They are a vulnerable section of the society that need to be with their families the most through their last years. I'm not sure there'd be many parents out there willing to jump all the different visa hoops there are and go through the exponentially increased wait times willingly anymore. It's a sad reality and one can only hope things get better from here.

 

I think many would still jump through all the different hoops as you put it.  I’m sure those that would really like to one day join their family would rather do so ten years later than never have the chance.  I’d say the situation will get worse, definitely not better. 
 

‘They are a vulnerable section of society that need to be with their families the most through their last years’ 

You’re not really selling them well - whilst we love our parents dearly, the Australian government doesn’t and your words above to them read as old, vulnerable and in need of support.  They don’t want a load of olds turning up, it’s obvious why. I’m in the parent queue myself and I’m glad they allow parent visas. I also realise that by the time I make the move I will probably have retired and will therefore give little back compared to the home grown person or young migrant who will spend years and years paying into the system.  I may one day need the state to pay for expensive round the clock care for me whilst I spend years sitting in nappies unaware of what’s going on. I hope not but that’s the reality. Of course they don’t want tens of thousands of us arriving every year.

[LindaH27]

2 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

I think many would still jump through all the different hoops as you put it.  I’m sure those that would really like to one day join their family would rather do so ten years later than never have the chance.  I’d say the situation will get worse, definitely not better. 
 

‘They are a vulnerable section of society that need to be with their families the most through their last years’ 

You’re not really selling them well - whilst we love our parents dearly, the Australian government doesn’t and your words above to them read as old, vulnerable and in need of support.  They don’t want a load of olds turning up, it’s obvious why. I’m in the parent queue myself and I’m glad they allow parent visas. I also realise that by the time I make the move I will probably have retired and will therefore give little back compared to the home grown person or young migrant who will spend years and years paying into the system.  I may one day need the state to pay for expensive round the clock care for me whilst I spend years sitting in nappies unaware of what’s going on. I hope not but that’s the reality. Of course they don’t want tens of thousands of us arriving every year.

Exactly ! The words “elderly vulnerable and needing help” would realistically make the govt bolt the doors shut!  The whole world is facing the problem of people living longer but who may eventually have extensive and expensive needs. I too am waiting and I’m also getting older so yes it’s something that probably hits home more for me than my children. 
I’ll leave my application to run - it will be 4 years by June this year and likely to be another few years. But hopefully once this pandemic becomes more manageable I will be getting on with my life and just seeing what happens. Yes Id be very upset if I didn’t get my grant but I know full well the reasons why Australia does not want to pay the cost of a huge number of parents who could well end up needing aged care / expensive medicines when they could offer migrant places to skilled young migrants who will restart their economy.  I believe this is what’s happening too with the grant system - for years the rate of refusals has been around 6% per year  but last year when they cut the cap to 4500 the results also showed that the refusal rate had tripled to over 18% -  I’ve read posts from agents who feel that failure to pass the medical is one  of the more common reasons for refusal. It’s not just what you have now.  They also look at the potential  costs of the next few years. I’m not sure but I think if you seem likely to cost $49000 over 5 or 10 (?) years they’re likely to refuse the grant - possibly someone else can confirm those figures? 
 

 

 

 

[LindaH27]

Just seen this. It’s not just about forcing parents to leave Australian to get their grants - it’s far broader and  encompasses the whole system and its delays. Worth a read and maybe a submission !!

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/feb/23/labor-pushes-for-inquiry-into-broken-visa-system-that-forces-applicants-to-take-trips-abroad-during-covid?utm_term=4ef04e1f209ae455addf191c12eb2402&utm_campaign=MorningMailAUS&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=morningmailau_email

[Kathss56]

4 hours ago, LindaH27 said:

Just seen this. It’s not just about forcing parents to leave Australian to get their grants - it’s far broader and  encompasses the whole system and its delays. Worth a read and maybe a submission !!

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/feb/23/labor-pushes-for-inquiry-into-broken-visa-system-that-forces-applicants-to-take-trips-abroad-during-covid?utm_term=4ef04e1f209ae455addf191c12eb2402&utm_campaign=MorningMailAUS&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=morningmailau_email

Was about to post his also. It does mention enquiry into long delays. The Greens are also lobbying for this!  Even if they only increase the numbers each year from this, it will be a start! 

[Marisawright]

 

13 hours ago, Arti said:

The most unfortunate bit of it all is we are talking about parents here. They are a vulnerable section of the society that need to be with their families the most through their last years. I'm not sure there'd be many parents out there willing to jump all the different visa hoops there are and go through the exponentially increased wait times willingly anymore. It's a sad reality and one can only hope things get better from here.

 

Sure, but the government could also point out that it was your choice that created the situation in the first place, and you could equally well move back to your home country to care for them.

Edited February 23, 2021 by Marisawright

[Ollie1234]

20 hours ago, ramot said:

I completely agree with Tulip 1’s post above, on both the need for the length of the waiting time for the parent visas to be processed on the government’s web site should present a realistic time scale. When we applied for the 864 visa in February 2017 the processing time was “1 year” !!!

Plus the misconception of the parent visa applicants, complaining that because of the long wait they are missing out on time with their grandchildren, and or that they are needed here as unpaid baby sitters, that the government will care. It couldn’t care less. The government is however concerned with the cost to the country of too many old people coming here who have never paid tax here, who will end up costing the country more than they have contributed. Not every parent comes with sufficient funds to support themselves long term.

Surely then the gov should ensure that parents come with enough money to support themsleves?