Parent visa application timelines (143 & 173)

[Arti]

33 minutes ago, Taswegians2B said:

Not entirely the case in some countries.  We have lived in Malaysia for almost 10 years on a retirement visa called Malaysia My Second Home.  If you can fund yourself and can prove it by depositing funds into Malaysia, older retirees have been welcomed here.  Similar idea exists in Thailand, although I believe the entry criteria are slightly different there.  It all boils down to being able to be self-sufficient financially and thus we will never be a burden on the state.

USA has a 8 - 12 months processing time for parents of citizens. Nowhere near as expensive as contributory visa. 

Canada - even lesser.

[Marisawright]

53 minutes ago, Arti said:

USA has a 8 - 12 months processing time for parents of citizens. Nowhere near as expensive as contributory visa. 

Canada - even lesser.

The US offers parent visas to citizens only, not permanent residents. And we all know that the US doesn't have universal health care or other social benefits, so parents aren't going to be a cost to the state.

Canada requires the sponsoring child to sign the following undertaking:

• to financially support the sponsored for 20 years (starting when they become permanent residents); and
• to repay any social assistance benefits paid to the sponsored family members  for a period of 20 years.

Australia takes a different approach - once a parent arrives in Australia on a permanent visa, they're entitled to all the benefits and health care afforded to any permanent resident. That's why they cost the Australian taxpayer many times more than they contribute.   

Maybe you should petition the government to amend the rules, so that parents have to be self-sufficient, as they are obliged to be for retirement visas in other countries.  Then Australia could afford to offer far more parent visas.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Marisawright

[LindaH27]

1 hour ago, Ollie1234 said:

60,000 in the queue and less than 2% have signed. Has everyone here added their name? https://www.change.org/p/australian-local-government-increase-number-of-permanent-parent-visas-in-australia?fbclid=IwAR3eV5FxwOK3Hqf_6hJgz9m5foMsyb0vZRaJK9kHcMQufbrVbA8Kb7ML38o

 

Some newer members of the forum possibly won’t be aware that early in 2018 a member of the forum emailed Senator Nic McKim of the Greens about the waiting times of the parent queue. It was actually raised in parliament/Senate in May 2018. 

The figures given then from the Immigration  department  were that there were already  46,745  in the queue  at end April 2018 and that there were only so many places and demand continued to outstrip those places available. 

The only outcome after that appeared to be that the annual cap got reduced later from over 7000 to 6000 and now to 4500! 

The other thing Australia’s govt is aware of Is the 2016 Productivity Review Commission looking at immigration for the future. The recommendations (which haven’t yet been carried out) were that the existing 99 different visas that Australia uses should be reduced to just 10. That non contributory parents visas should be abolished, no bridging visas then needed and that contributory parents visas should pay an amount closer to that which it was estimated to cost Australia in aged medical and care costs over the lives of the applicants.  That figure was estimated to be around $450,000 per person - that’s at least 10 times higher than the current visa cost!! Yes some will have substantial funds and can pay for everything - a lot more will not, so they have to average it out. 

The review was opened for comments etc for  a year  (I think!!)

To date nothing has been done as Australia, like every other country,  is concentrating on fighting Covid-19 and the effects it’s having on the economy - hence why it really wants young people who are going to come in and pay taxes and get the economy moving again. 

Kristina Keneally,  the Shadow Home Affairs minister,  has recently said that the review and the costs of looking into privatising the visa application service had cost the Australia govt $90 million! She said immigration needs looking at and there were far too many people on bridging visas. So it appears both major parties aren’t overly concerned about parents and are focusing more on skills, Global Talent and young partners because without an influx of young people and a higher birth rate,  Australia is moving towards having a smaller and older population as a lot of their early migrants from the 1960s onwards  are now of pensionable age themselves. 

Yes some countries allow parent visas - but you’d have a much harder struggle to get one for UK!

All this may go some  way to explaining why some people haven’t signed - because they know it probably won’t work.  
Immi  is at fault in not giving new applicants the proper waiting time. if this was done some people would probably decide not to apply. But more and more people are applying thinking they will get a visa in around 3-4 years (Some were told 18-24 months - I was!) and have their hopes come crashing down.

Immi and migration agents need to be more open about the potential wait times. 

I’m not trying to defend Australia’s stance on parental immigration  - I’ve been waiting for a parent visa myself for over 3 years already  - I’m trying to explain why it is the way it is and I don’t like it anymore than the rest of us!  

Transparency needs to be the order of the day 

[Marisawright]

4 minutes ago, LindaH27 said:

Immi  is at fault in not giving new applicants the proper waiting time. ....

Yes some countries allow parent visas - but you’d have a much harder struggle to get one for UK!

Very true, the way they show the waiting time (based on past performance not future projections) is grossly misleading.

As you say, good luck to any Australian wanting to get a parent visa to the UK - almost impossible.  Perhaps a solution might be to negotiate some kind of reciprocal deal?

 

[LindaH27]

13 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Very true, the way they show the waiting time (based on past performance not future projections) is grossly misleading.

As you say, good luck to any Australian wanting to get a parent visa to the UK - almost impossible.  Perhaps a solution might be to negotiate some kind of reciprocal deal?

 

Possibly - something was mentioned a few months ago by Scott Morrison talking about an Australia-UK trade deal after Brexit and he said something about allowing Brits to live and work in Australia and vice versa, but I can’t remember exactly what was said - it will almost certainly not be free movement like among  EU states ! 

[Ollie1234]

40 minutes ago, LindaH27 said:

Immi  is at fault in not giving new applicants the proper waiting time. if this was done some people would probably decide not to apply. But more and more people are applying thinking they will get a visa in around 3-4 years (Some were told 18-24 months - I was!) and have their hopes come crashing down.

Immi and migration agents need to be more open about the potential wait times. 

This is my issue. We would not have applied for this visa had we known. I get the point re not wanting older population and wanting to attract younger talent, but that goes both ways. My husband works in the mining industry in WA, I run my own business - if I can't get visas for my parents, we'll be packing our bags. Not all parents are a drain on the system, they're not looking at the bigger picture. It actually helps keep talent in Australia, and provides childcare in many cases too. 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Ollie1234

[ramot]

2 hours ago, Taswegians2B said:

Not entirely the case in some countries.  We have lived in Malaysia for almost 10 years on a retirement visa called Malaysia My Second Home.  If you can fund yourself and can prove it by depositing funds into Malaysia, older retirees have been welcomed here.  Similar idea exists in Thailand, although I believe the entry criteria are slightly different there.  It all boils down to being able to be self-sufficient financially and thus we will never be a burden on the state.

Australia did have the long term temporary self funded  410 retirement visa, which started in 1989 and ended to new applicants in 2005. The very expensive 405 investment visa replaced it, and has also ended to new applicants. There must have been a reason they were both cancelled. Perhaps the visa was being rorted somehow? We were on the 410 retirement visas for 15 years, now PR through the pathway 143 visa, We know quite a few others who were on the 410 and 405 visas and others who are still on them.It seemed a good visa for self funded retirees to live in Australia, but also quite a few of the people we knew who had been here a very long time have returned t o UK as Australia became too expensive for them to stay.  The cost of health insurance is very very expensive and a couple of years ago it went up 42%!!! and  it’s still rising. Also many conditions for temporary residents have changed, eg stamp duty. So temporary visas aren’t so attractive now. I don’t know if existing 410 visa holders are subject to paying the increased stamp duty if they move house, 

Edited October 27, 2020 by ramot

[LindaH27]

16 minutes ago, Ollie1234 said:

This is my issue. We would not have applied for this visa had we known. I get the point re not wanting older population and wanting to attract younger talent, but that goes both ways. My husband works in the mining industry in WA, I run my own business - if I can't get visas for my parents, we'll be packing our bags. Not all parents are a drain on the system, they're not looking at the bigger picture. It actually helps keep talent in Australia, and provides childcare in many cases too. 

Yes I do agree with you- my daughter has a high powered job over there and a young child with her partner who I could help with   - but Australia knows it has plenty of young would be migrants waiting in the wings who would make up for any leaving. Again Australia holds all the cards!!

[Marisawright]

22 minutes ago, Ollie1234 said:

Not all parents are a drain on the system, they're not looking at the bigger picture. It actually helps keep talent in Australia, and provides childcare in many cases too. 

All parents ARE a drain on the system, because they are all eligible for Medicare.

Just have a read of the government research into the cost of aged parents. Also look at the recent NHS figures on how much elderly people cost in health care.  If, like the great majority of people over 65, your parents end up on blood pressure pills, cholesterol medication, blood thinners etc, they will cost the Australian taxpayer thousands every single year for the rest of their lives, just in medication and GP checkups.   If one of them needs a simple operation like a knee replacement, that costs the Australian taxpayer over $30,000. And I know you don't want to think of it right now, but they are both going to die in Australia - and most likely, it will be a long, slow decline, because these days, doctors are very good at prolonging life:  and that comes at a huge cost.  The statistics are very clear. 

I'm well aware of all that because I'm a generally healthy person in my sixties, and looking at my friends, I can see that trajectory in front of me. Let's hope it's not for a good many years yet - but the fact is, the longer I live, the more I'm going to cost the taxpayer in medications and treatments to keep me going.  I've lived here since my early thirties, so at least I've paid something into the tax system.  

Yes, if your parents can't be with you, you'll go home.  But most migrants wouldn't, at least not permanently.  In my observation, it's usually the parents who are far more desperate to join their children:  if the  children were really close to their parents, they wouldn't have gone off and left them behind in the first place.

And even if you do go home, it's not as if Australia is desperately short of talent:  there's a very long queue of people keen to come to Australia to fill the gap you leave. So there's not a great incentive for the government to change its mind. 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Marisawright

[Arti]

13 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

All parents ARE a drain on the system, because they are all eligible for Medicare.

Just have a read of the government research into the cost of aged parents. Also look at the recent NHS figures on how much elderly people cost in health care.  If, like the great majority of people over 65, your parents end up on blood pressure pills, cholesterol medication, blood thinners etc, they will cost the Australian taxpayer thousands every single year for the rest of their lives, just in medication and GP checkups.   If one of them needs a simple operation like a knee replacement, that costs the Australian taxpayer over $30,000. And I know you don't want to think of it right now, but they are both going to die in Australia - and most likely, it will be a long, slow decline, because these days, doctors are very good at prolonging life:  and that comes at a huge cost.  The statistics are very clear. 

Quite agree on most points - the government research though - not sure if it also considers the amount of tax immigrants pay. On an average skilled immigrants / people with tertiary education pay higher than average taxes - This should be taken into consideration as well imho. The balance could still tilt in favor of not bringing in immigrant parents - but it needs to consider all factors before making a blanket declaration of all parents being a burden.

A lot of partners from varied cultures also move to AU and do not ever contribute to the economy. But this is not factored in whilst deciding partner visa quotas.

[ramot]

3 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

All parents ARE a drain on the system, because they are all eligible for Medicare.

Just have a read of the government research into the cost of aged parents. Also look at the recent NHS figures on how much elderly people cost in health care.  If, like the great majority of people over 65, your parents end up on blood pressure pills, cholesterol medication, blood thinners etc, they will cost the Australian taxpayer thousands every single year for the rest of their lives, just in medication and GP checkups.   If one of them needs a simple operation like a knee replacement, that costs the Australian taxpayer over $30,000. And I know you don't want to think of it right now, but they are both going to die in Australia - and most likely, it will be a long, slow decline, because these days, doctors are very good at prolonging life:  and that comes at a huge cost.  The statistics are very clear. 

I'm well aware of all that because I'm a generally healthy person in my sixties, and looking at my friends, I can see that trajectory in front of me. Let's hope it's not for a good many years yet - but the fact is, the longer I live, the more I'm going to cost the taxpayer in medications and treatments to keep me going.  I've lived here since my early thirties, so at least I've paid something into the tax system.  

Yes, if your parents can't be with you, you'll go home.  But most migrants won't, at least not permanently.  And even if you do, it's not as if Australia is desperately short of talent:  there's a very long queue of people keen to come to Australia to fill the gap you leave. So there's not a great incentive for the government to change its mind. 

I agree Marisa, we have been here nearly 18 years, now in our mid/late 70’s, both reasonably fit? but on meds for heart, blood pressure etc. my husband has had 2 trips to hospital by ambulance and I’ve had one recently, excellent care, and ok, but at a cost to Medicare. We have to have regular check ups by specialists. So already we aren’t cheap, and even though we have health insurance our visits are part covered by Medicare not our health fund.

I appreciate I might not fit the picture  of a doting grandmother, but it really annoys me that there is an assumption that a grandparent is going to be an unpaid baby sitter. I’ve bought up 3 children and retirement is my time, emergencies excepted. Yes mine are in England, but  it would be the same there. 

[LindaH27]

9 minutes ago, Arti said:

Quite agree on most points - the government research though - not sure if it also considers the amount of tax immigrants pay. On an average skilled immigrants / people with tertiary education pay higher than average taxes - This should be taken into consideration as well imho. The balance could still tilt in favor of not bringing in immigrant parents - but it needs to consider all factors before making a blanket declaration of all parents being a burden.

A lot of partners from varied cultures also move to AU and do not ever contribute to the economy. But this is not factored in whilst deciding partner visa quotas.

No but those young partners could help increase the birth rate and child care for the future!! Already been mentioned by immigration as one factor in the increased partner rate 
 

Your high taxes may be needed when you reach old age as none of us knows what’s in store for us, so they don’t factor in using them for your parents. 

[ramot]

22 minutes ago, Arti said:

Quite agree on most points - the government research though - not sure if it also considers the amount of tax immigrants pay. On an average skilled immigrants / people with tertiary education pay higher than average taxes - This should be taken into consideration as well imho. The balance could still tilt in favor of not bringing in immigrant parents - but it needs to consider all factors before making a blanket declaration of all parents being a burden.

A lot of partners from varied cultures also move to AU and do not ever contribute to the economy. But this is not factored in whilst deciding partner visa quotas.

Sorry, long term we will more than likely be a burden, we might have a reasonable income when we arrive, but by my experience your income doesn’t necessarily go up in line with the cost of living. We all know the state pension is frozen, but not sure if everyone’s private pension is index linked. Certainly the experience of quite a few retirees we know who have been here as long, nearly 18 years for us, or much longer than us have certainly found money getting tighter, Retirement can hopefully last a long time. 

Don’t know why you think parents from other ‘cultures’ should impinge on parent visa quotas, they have the same rights to join their children, as everyone else irrespective of income.

i apologise to Arti, I misread the post. That’s the problem with getting old, my eyes aren’t so good any more

Edited October 27, 2020 by ramot
Misread post

[Arti]

4 minutes ago, LindaH27 said:

No but those young partners could help increase the birth rate and child care for the future!! Already been mentioned by immigration as one factor in the increased partner rate 
 

Your high taxes may be needed when you reach old age as none of us knows what’s in store for us, so they don’t factor in using them for your parents. 

Sure - didn't think of that. Haha.

Perhaps I'm just looking for something to change the perception so these visas could move just a tad quicker 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Arti

[Arti]

Just realized this thing doesn't let me delete comments

Edited October 27, 2020 by Arti

[ramot]

1 minute ago, Arti said:

I said a lot of *partners* not parents.

Whoops, sorry, I did misread it.

[Tulip1]

1 hour ago, Ollie1234 said:

This is my issue. We would not have applied for this visa had we known. I get the point re not wanting older population and wanting to attract younger talent, but that goes both ways. My husband works in the mining industry in WA, I run my own business - if I can't get visas for my parents, we'll be packing our bags. Not all parents are a drain on the system, they're not looking at the bigger picture. It actually helps keep talent in Australia, and provides childcare in many cases too. 

You may pack up your bags but most wouldn’t. People who have emigrated to the other side of the world have made the choice to leave their family behind and start a new life. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with that at all but that’s the reason families are separated. It’s not the Australian governments fault and it’s up to them how many olds they want to let in.  I see so many say things like families should be together and we need our parents with us.  The only reason they’re not together is because the adult children chose to move away.  I’m all for it, my kids did the same and had my full support the whole way.  Sure not all old people will be a drain but they have looked at the bigger picture and the stats are the parent visa lot are overall a big drain on the state. Letting them all in may keep a very small amount of talent who would leave but it would be a very tiny amount I would imagine and replaceable. As for childcare, you could argue the olds are taking a job that an Australian could have as a childminder/nursery worker.   I do agree that they are very misleading with the timescales and that’s really bad. Believe me, I like you wish they would rush through the visa applications much quicker, I am in the parent queue and have been for almost four years but I understand why they don’t really want an influx of us. 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Tulip1

[kimboslice]

On 26/10/2020 at 13:03, Lady Jane said:

Hi,
 

Can you not get a refund and change airlines? 
 This is the auto response from Immi re visa dates
 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by kimboslice
not meant to send

[kimboslice]

Has anybody flew into doha lately on there way to australia. qatar airways are flying to australia with a connection time of 19 hours, was wondering if we can book a room in the current climate. A long time to wait around the airport.

[Tulip1]

7 hours ago, ramot said:

I agree Marisa, we have been here nearly 18 years, now in our mid/late 70’s, both reasonably fit? but on meds for heart, blood pressure etc. my husband has had 2 trips to hospital by ambulance and I’ve had one recently, excellent care, and ok, but at a cost to Medicare. We have to have regular check ups by specialists. So already we aren’t cheap, and even though we have health insurance our visits are part covered by Medicare not our health fund.

I appreciate I might not fit the picture  of a doting grandmother, but it really annoys me that there is an assumption that a grandparent is going to be an unpaid baby sitter. I’ve bought up 3 children and retirement is my time, emergencies excepted. Yes mine are in England, but  it would be the same there. 

I agree with your last sentence and I feel the same. I have friends who have raised their kids and now in their 50’s/60’s are looking after the grandchildren during the day. Lovely as it must be for the parents to have free childcare on tap, surely that’s not how it should be. I’ve spoken to people who cannot arrange to go out for lunches/day trips/impromptu trips away with their retired friends because they have the daily school run and childcare to do.  I’ve spoken to grandparents in their 70’s exhausted as they spend their days running after toddlers. I sometimes see on here things like my daughter/son need me out there to look after the kids whilst they’re at work. Wouldn’t parents going out there want to build up a new life for themselves, join clubs/make new friends etc rather than have a childcare schedule waiting for them. I love babies and children and would enjoy spending time with them and spoiling them. I’d be happy to and would love to babysit/give the parents a break whilst I have fun with the little ones now and again.  That’s very different though to trying to fit my life around looking after kids much of the week, that would be a no no.  I did my turn at that with my kids and now it’s my time to do and plan what I want.  

[Tulip1]

2 hours ago, kimboslice said:

Has anybody flew into doha lately on there way to australia. qatar airways are flying to australia with a connection time of 19 hours, was wondering if we can book a room in the current climate. A long time to wait around the airport.

You’ll have to hope they don’t find a newborn baby at the airport whilst you wait.  If they do, any females in your party may get an unpleasant frisk search. Sorry I can’t help with your question but what I’ve read about in the news about what happened at that airport if true is disgusting and I wouldn’t go anywhere near the place.

[rtritudr]

10 hours ago, Marisawright said:

The US offers parent visas to citizens only, not permanent residents. And we all know that the US doesn't have universal health care or other social benefits, so parents aren't going to be a cost to the state.

The US does offer universal health care for older people, it's called Medicare:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(United_States)

[rtritudr]

10 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Canada requires the sponsoring child to sign the following undertaking:

• to financially support the sponsored for 20 years (starting when they become permanent residents); and
• to repay any social assistance benefits paid to the sponsored family members  for a period of 20 years.

It means no access to the age pension.  They still get free medical care though.

Edited October 27, 2020 by rtritudr

[SusieRoo]

7 hours ago, kimboslice said:

Has anybody flew into doha lately on there way to australia. qatar airways are flying to australia with a connection time of 19 hours, was wondering if we can book a room in the current climate. A long time to wait around the airport.

There is a hotel inside the airport, which is good for a short stay. It’s ‘airside’ so no need any the additional local visa and it’s right in the centre of the airport with easy access to the departure gates. We have stayed there once (a couple of years ago) on a similar length layover and would probably do again. There's not much to do in that airport for 19 hours unless you have access to a lounge, but at least the hotel has a pool and you can get a good few hours sleep.

[Marisawright]

4 hours ago, rtritudr said:

The US does offer universal health care for older people, it's called Medicare:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(United_States)

Not true. Even for citizens, the cover is far from 100%, and for recent arrivals with no work record, you have to pay.   https://www.medicareresources.org/faqs/can-recent-immigrants-to-the-united-states-get-health-coverage-if-theyre-over-65/#:~:text=If you're a U.S.,a premium for Part A.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Marisawright