Parent visa application timelines (143 & 173)

[LindaH27]

1 hour ago, ruby1121 said:

 I know the current goverment(Liberal)  position for the parent visa as I submitted submissions for the senate enquiry/annual visa plan, joined many petitions and sent latters to politicians related with 143 visa problem. I have been in Australia since 2012. I know Liberal government reduced total immigration from 2017( from 190000 to 160000) and change the parent visa system such as removing 410(retirement), announcing 870, reducing contributory parent visa annual quota in half based on the productivity report asked by Joe Hockey.

However, It would be better to keep sending letters to politicians and contacting Media/Journalist to raise awareness rather than staying calming.

What if labor or green wins in this federal election? What if senate enquiry make a good result for 143?

 

 

 

 

405 and 410 actually did very well-  they were able to apply for 143 without meeting the balance of family test  or paying AOS. In fact 125 of the 3600 grants are reserved for exactly those defunct visas. 
 

I hope the senate enquiry makes a good result for 143 - whatever they decide will not  be because of media attention but because two MPs  Nick Mckim and Julian Hill  raised awareness and people were  given the chance to make submissions  You cannot make submissions after the closing date. There are more Australians against more migration than there are for migration,  especially of old people who have made no contribution to Medicare unlike  Australians  who have paid into Medicare all their working lives. $50,000 goes nowhere in Medicare when  just a hip operation can cost $30,000!! 

[ramot]

40 minutes ago, LindaH27 said:

405 and 410 actually did very well-  they were able to apply for 143 without meeting the balance of family test  or paying AOS. In fact 125 of the 3600 grants are reserved for exactly those defunct visas. 
 

I hope the senate enquiry makes a good result for 143 - whatever they decide will not  be because of media attention but because two MPs  Nick Mckim and Julian Hill  raised awareness and people were  given the chance to make submissions  You cannot make submissions after the closing date. There are more Australians against more migration than there are for migration,  especially of old people who have made no contribution to Medicare unlike  Australians  who have paid into Medicare all their working lives. $50,000 goes nowhere in Medicare when  just a hip operation can cost $30,000!! 

Although the 410 visa closed to new applicants in 2005 and 405 visas closed in 2018, those already here on these visas, have no problem with staying here forever, as their visas are renewable. Would be interesting to know how many retirement visa holders actually took advantage of the pathway visa? There were only 3 of  us out of the approximately 40 couples that we knew of  on these visas. Most felt that they were already too old to justify the cost, as they were already happily settled here, owned their houses, Perhaps more on the 405 visa took up the offer, as it was a very expensive visa in comparison to the 410? Quite a few couples on the 405 visas had left Australia because of the high cost.

 

[Marisawright]

2 hours ago, ruby1121 said:

 I know the current goverment(Liberal)  position for the parent visa....

However, It would be better to keep sending letters to politicians and contacting Media/Journalist to raise awareness rather than staying calming.

I agree, you are entitled to make your voice heard, like everyone else.

What I'm saying is, it's a futile exercise if all you do is offer emotional arguments.  Currently, the best argument being offered seems to be, "There is a percentage of Australian migrants who want to bring their parents to Australia, and you'll lose those migrants if you don't give us visas."

The response of the government is always going to be, "But it's only a small percentage, and it would require us to spend millions out of our health and aged care budget, out of all proportion to the value of those migrants.  And our aged care system is already a basket case.   And by the way, how many votes will that win us?" 

If you can't find ways to counter those arguments, you don't stand a chance.

It's easy for political parties to make encouraging statements when they're not in power. Faced with the reality of budget pressures if they do form a government, I think their opinions will change.

Edited March 27, 2022 by Marisawright

[ramot]

2 hours ago, ruby1121 said:

 I know the current goverment(Liberal)  position for the parent visa as I submitted submissions for the senate enquiry/annual visa plan, joined many petitions and sent latters to politicians related with 143 visa problem. I have been in Australia since 2012. I know Liberal government reduced total immigration from 2017( from 190000 to 160000) and change the parent visa system such as removing 410(retirement), announcing 870, reducing contributory parent visa annual quota in half based on the productivity report asked by Joe Hockey.

However, It would be better to keep sending letters to politicians and contacting Media/Journalist to raise awareness rather than staying calming.

What if labor or green wins in this federal election? What if senate enquiry make a good result for 143?

 

 

 

 

Out of interest what visa are you on?

The 410 retirement visa was closed to new applicants in 2005, The very very expensive 405 visa closed in 2018. Not many people could afford the 405 visa long term.

[ramot]

2 hours ago, ruby1121 said:

 I know the current goverment(Liberal)  position for the parent visa as I submitted submissions for the senate enquiry/annual visa plan, joined many petitions and sent latters to politicians related with 143 visa problem. I have been in Australia since 2012. I know Liberal government reduced total immigration from 2017( from 190000 to 160000) and change the parent visa system such as removing 410(retirement), announcing 870, reducing contributory parent visa annual quota in half based on the productivity report asked by Joe Hockey.

However, It would be better to keep sending letters to politicians and contacting Media/Journalist to raise awareness rather than staying calming.

What if labor or green wins in this federal election? What if senate enquiry make a good result for 143?

 

 

 

 

 

When Chris Evans was the immigration Minister for Labor he retrospectively changed the rules for international students overnight, not sure of the date, 2008/10? causing untold hardship on the thousands of students studying in Australia, so don’t hold your breath hoping Labor will actually be any more sympathetic to potential parents wanting to live here.It all comes down to money and the cost to the country. It’s the dishonesty of the waiting list times for the visa on the official website that fools potential applicants to pay for a non refundable visa application that is so disgraceful. 

[LindaH27]

3 hours ago, ramot said:

Although the 410 visa closed to new applicants in 2005 and 405 visas closed in 2018, those already here on these visas, have no problem with staying here forever, as their visas are renewable. Would be interesting to know how many retirement visa holders actually took advantage of the pathway visa? There were only 3 of  us out of the approximately 40 couples that we knew of  on these visas. Most felt that they were already too old to justify the cost, as they were already happily settled here, owned their houses, Perhaps more on the 405 visa took up the offer, as it was a very expensive visa in comparison to the 410? Quite a few couples on the 405 visas had left Australia because of the high cost.

 

https://www.gm-parent-visas.com/number-of-parent-visa-applications-retirement-visa-pathway/

[ramot]

52 minutes ago, LindaH27 said:

https://www.gm-parent-visas.com/number-of-parent-visa-applications-retirement-visa-pathway/

 

52 minutes ago, LindaH27 said:

https://www.gm-parent-visas.com/number-of-parent-visa-applications-retirement-visa-pathway/

Hope they allocate the spare places to others in the ordinary queue

[ElenaS]

Hi everyone! I'm just going to apply for 143 visa for my parents. I'm trying to get an idea of how long it might take. It's quite confusing with different timelines on different websites. Agents seem to be uncertain as well. I know that the total number of parent visas granted each year is 4500, but is anyone aware of how many applications are in the queue already? Many thanks, Elena.

[Marisawright]

6 minutes ago, ElenaS said:

Hi everyone! I'm just going to apply for 143 visa for my parents. I'm trying to get an idea of how long it might take. It's quite confusing with different timelines on different websites. Agents seem to be uncertain as well. I know that the total number of parent visas granted each year is 4500, but is anyone aware of how many applications are in the queue already? 

You'll see different timelines because many websites are old and out of date.   

Agents should not be uncertain, IF they know their job.  If they say they're not sure, then they are either inexperienced, or they don't want to tell you the bad news (after all, if they want your money). 

There are approximately 60,000 applicants already in the queue.  So if you apply today, you will be waiting at least 15 years and possibly longer.

Edited April 10, 2022 by Marisawright

[LindaH27]

24 minutes ago, ElenaS said:

Hi everyone! I'm just going to apply for 143 visa for my parents. I'm trying to get an idea of how long it might take. It's quite confusing with different timelines on different websites. Agents seem to be uncertain as well. I know that the total number of parent visas granted each year is 4500, but is anyone aware of how many applications are in the queue already? Many thanks, Elena.

You can see how many were in the queue up to end August 2021 here https://www.gm-parent-visas.com/contributory-parent-visa-application-numbers-updated/

There will obviously be a lot more now

Its been 4500 grants per year for last couple of years but it’s split as  3600 for contributory visas and 900 for non contributory. Apparently it’s been increased to 6000 in the budget but we don’t yet know the split. 
However new applications are going to take many,  many years however many are allowed now. 

[ElenaS]

Thanks @Marisawrightand @LindaH27! That's absolutely crazy. You pay so much money and it takes that long! And the most disappointing part is that the department website has such outdated processing times. Well, thanks for your help and we'll see if the situation changes somehow in the coming years.

[LindaH27]

11 minutes ago, ElenaS said:

Thanks @Marisawrightand @LindaH27! That's absolutely crazy. You pay so much money and it takes that long! And the most disappointing part is that the department website has such outdated processing times. Well, thanks for your help and we'll see if the situation changes somehow in the coming years.

You only pay the big money at the end. If you put it in now at least you’re already in the  Queue should there be any changes in the next few years. 
The website isn’t actually incorrect but it doesn’t show the correct waiting time. What it shows is how long it has roughly  taken to process the ones they’re actually doing now. So they’re into June 2016 now but also Covid got in the way a bit as well ! 
Don’t forget there’s also the long term temporary visas as well whereby they could come over for up to a maximum of 10 years 

Edited April 10, 2022 by LindaH27

[Marisawright]

25 minutes ago, ElenaS said:

Thanks @Marisawrightand @LindaH27! That's absolutely crazy. You pay so much money and it takes that long! And the most disappointing part is that the department website has such outdated processing times. Well, thanks for your help and we'll see if the situation changes somehow in the coming years.

As Linda says, you don't pay the big money until the end. 

The problem is that elderly parents are costing the government far too much money in medical care and aged care.   An elderly person costs Medicare at least 4 times what a young person does, because we all start falling to bits after 60 (I speak as an over-60 myself).   And of course parents haven't paid a cent into the Australian tax system during their working life to offset those costs. 

That's why the fee is so high, but the government has realised that even the high fee doesn't come anywhere close to covering it.  When you consider that one hip replacement can cost the government $50,000, you begin to see why.  Just imagine how much those 60,000 parents would cost if they let everyone in.  It's too much of a hot potato to get rid of parent visas so they've just gone on a go-slow. 

[LindaH27]

2 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

As Linda says, you don't pay the big money until the end. 

The problem is that elderly parents are costing the government far too much money in medical care and aged care.   An elderly person costs Medicare at least 4 times what a young person does, because we all start falling to bits after 60 (I speak as an over-60 myself).   And of course parents haven't paid a cent into the Australian tax system during their working life to offset those costs. 

That's why the fee is so high, but the government has realised that even the high fee doesn't come anywhere close to covering it.  When you consider that one hip replacement can cost the government $50,000, you begin to see why.  Just imagine how much those 60,000 parents would cost if they let everyone in.  It's too much of a hot potato to get rid of parent visas so they've just gone on a go-slow. 

Perhaps the answer is to make it compulsory for all migrant parents to have private health insurance? 

[Karl D]

I’m happy to do that, I don’t want anything from the Australian benefits system. And quite rightly don’t want to burden Australian tax payers.

I have worked since I was 16, never took a benefit, we have a large sum in savings and very good UK private pensions.

Just want to be closer to our kids and grandkids now.

[LindaH27]

54 minutes ago, Karl D said:

I’m happy to do that, I don’t want anything from the Australian benefits system. And quite rightly don’t want to burden Australian tax payers.

I have worked since I was 16, never took a benefit, we have a large sum in savings and very good UK private pensions.

Just want to be closer to our kids and grandkids now.

So would I - and I suspect quite a lot of retired applicants feel the same way. But I guess not everybody is in that good position. 

[Tulip1]

8 hours ago, LindaH27 said:

Perhaps the answer is to make it compulsory for all migrant parents to have private health insurance? 

I can’t see how that could be monitored ongoing though.  There would be many parents that would put it in place to get the visa but who would be checking ten years later that they still have it.  Australia wouldn’t refuse to give someone necessary medical care even if they no longer had insurance.  If there was a system in place that was able to track that all those migrant parents continued to have insurance what would happen to those that were found to have stopped it.  Deport them, perhaps in their thousands.  Many parents would be unable to afford insurance for the rest of their lives.  We have to remember lots of parents arriving are from poor countries.  What a nightmare such conditions would cause Australia.  Why would they want such a complicated system in place.  Also, I assume it wouldn’t cover years of aged care either.  I think we have to accept older people arriving in Australia (or anywhere) are not desirable.  They are giving out thousands of these visas every year to us even though we will give little to the system that will care for us if we need it to, potentially for many years, even decades.  I like many on here wish it was different but I get it. I can’t imagine how bad it must be for those joining the queue now looking at 15/20 years waiting but I can’t see them wanting to increase the quota either.  

[LindaH27]

9 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

I like many on here wish it was different but I get it. I can’t imagine how bad it must be for those joining the queue now looking at 15/20 years waiting but I can’t see them wanting to increase the quota either.  

They actually increased the quota in the recent budget. It’s going up from 4500 to 6000. No idea of how it’s split between contributory and non contributory yet. 

They obviously have to check that 870 applicants are still paying their private health insurance as it’s a mandatory condition on that visa. 

Edited April 10, 2022 by LindaH27

[Tulip1]

26 minutes ago, LindaH27 said:

They actually increased the quota in the recent budget. It’s going up from 4500 to 6000. No idea of how it’s split between contributory and non contributory yet. 

They obviously have to check that 870 applicants are still paying their private health insurance as it’s a mandatory condition on that visa. 

But it would be much easier to get rid of them if they didn’t.  I’d imagine much harder when 85 year old Doris can no longer afford the insurance and has had PR for 20 years.  Imagine the ‘nasty Australia’ stories coming off that.  What about the eye watering cost of aged care.  I don’t see how they could impose it because as mentioned, a large part of the parent visa group are from poorer countries.  Whilst the family may have clubbed together and found the visa fee, the parent has no income at all or a very small income.  They would not be able to support lifelong insurance themselves and their family would have no obligation to provide it.  Therefore if the criteria for parent visas was insurance then I think it would be seen as unfair.  I wouldn’t have a problem with it but I can see many would and it would be a headache.  

Edited April 10, 2022 by Tulip1

[ramot]

44 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

I can’t see how that could be monitored ongoing though.  There would be many parents that would put it in place to get the visa but who would be checking ten years later that they still have it.  Australia wouldn’t refuse to give someone necessary medical care even if they no longer had insurance.  If there was a system in place that was able to track that all those migrant parents continued to have insurance what would happen to those that were found to have stopped it.  Deport them, perhaps in their thousands.  Many parents would be unable to afford insurance for the rest of their lives.  We have to remember lots of parents arriving are from poor countries.  What a nightmare such conditions would cause Australia.  Why would they want such a complicated system in place.  Also, I assume it wouldn’t cover years of aged care either.  I think we have to accept older people arriving in Australia (or anywhere) are not desirable.  They are giving out thousands of these visas every year to us even though we will give little to the system that will care for us if we need it to, potentially for many years, even decades.  I like many on here wish it was different but I get it. I can’t imagine how bad it must be for those joining the queue now looking at 15/20 years waiting but I can’t see them wanting to increase the quota either.  

This brings you back to the concept of the now defunct old temporary long term retirement 410 visa followed by the very expensive 405 visas, also closed to new applications. absolutely no one was entitled to Medicare or any age care help. You had to be totally self funded, so therefore reasonably affluent at the time of application. 

The temporary 410 visa was a renewable visa that allowed you to retire and live in Australia,  but the problems arose for many who had made their homes here, that life that was affordable when they first came, became harder and harder as they aged, with no help available, so many had to give up and go home, after making their lives here for 30+ years. The cost of the necessary health insurance was over $11,000 when we last paid it several years ago, before we got PR.

So if perhaps a similar new long term parent/retirement temporary was introduced insisting on health insurance, cover, it would have to be with no Medicare to work, plus  if you now add in the extra costs involved in buying a house, on a temporary visa not sure how many could realistically afford the long term commitment. 

The idea of a condition insisting a parent on the permanent parent visa must have health insurance is unworkable, it can only work as a condition of a temporary visa.

Edited April 10, 2022 by ramot

[Tulip1]

8 minutes ago, ramot said:

This brings you back to the concept of the now defunct old temporary long term retirement 410 visa followed by the very expensive 405 visas, also closed to new applications. absolutely no one was entitled to Medicare or any age care help. You had to be totally self funded, so therefore reasonably affluent at the time of application. 

The temporary 410 visa was a renewable visa that allowed you to retire and live in Australia,  but the problems arose for many who had made their homes here, that life that was affordable when they first came, became harder and harder as they aged, with no help available, so many had to give up and go home, after making their lives here for 30+ years. The cost of the necessary health insurance was over $11,000 when we last paid it several years ago, before we got PR.

So if perhaps a similar new long term parent/retirement temporary was introduced insisting on health insurance, cover, then  if you now add in the extra costs involved in buying a house, not sure how many could realistically afford the long term commitment. 

The idea of a condition insisting a parent on the permanent parent visa must have health insurance is unworkable, it can only work as a condition of a temporary visa.

I take my last sentence back, I certainly would have a problem with it at $11,000 a year

[ramot]

12 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

I take my last sentence back, I certainly would have a problem with it at $11,000 a year

The point is that it was only about say $2/3,000 annually per couple (I can’t remember, but it went up 42% one year!!!)  19 years ago when we based our decision to move here, so what is affordable then, becomes less affordable 30 years later for many people we knew on the visa, as many people’s income did not keep pace with the increased cost of living 20/30 years later. We pay less than half of that amount now we are PR. 

ps $11,000 per couple

Edited April 10, 2022 by ramot

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Karl D said:

I’m happy to do that, I don’t want anything from the Australian benefits system. And quite rightly don’t want to burden Australian tax payers.

Yes, but that's you. Not every parent takes that attitude.  I've seen parents posting on this forum, asking how quickly they can access benfits after arrival.  I've also seen their children posting to the effect that, "we migrants are so incredibly valuable to the Australian economy, the taxpayer should gladly pay for our parents' care". 

The solution, as others have said, is to mandate full private health insurance for all parents - and that means a special visitor's insurance, not the normal Australian one, which doesn't pay for everything.  But that creates an administrative headache, because there's no point in a mandate if it's not policed. And that means it would have to be a temporary visa, where the private health insurance has to be checked at every renewal, because it would create a legal nightmare to have to strip people of a permanent visa every time. 

[Toots]

3 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Yes, but that's you. Not every parent takes that attitude.  I've seen parents posting on this forum, asking how quickly they can access benfits after arrival.  I've also seen their children posting to the effect that, "we migrants are so incredibly valuable to the Australian economy, the taxpayer should gladly pay for our parents' care". 

The solution, as others have said, is to mandate full private health insurance for all parents - and that means a special visitor's insurance, not the normal Australian one, which doesn't pay for everything.  But that creates an administrative headache, because there's no point in a mandate if it's not policed. And that means it would have to be a temporary visa, where the private health insurance has to be checked at every renewal, because it would create a legal nightmare to have to strip people of a permanent visa every time. 

What about the UK?  Is there such a thing as parent visas for people who migrate to England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales?

[Quoll]

3 minutes ago, Toots said:

What about the UK?  Is there such a thing as parent visas for people who migrate to England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales?

Nope