870 parents temporary visa

[harmitraj]

Hi.. hope someone can help me. I am currently offshore and waiting for 143 visa (applied in July 2017).  Once borders are opened I was thinking of applying for a 3 yr 870 visa. So if I am still not yet granted the 143 visa at the end of 3 years, will I be able automatically on the bridging A as the 143 is still pending or do I have to apply again for another 870 by going offshore?  

[LindaH27]

35 minutes ago, harmitraj said:

Hi.. hope someone can help me. I am currently offshore and waiting for 143 visa (applied in July 2017).  Once borders are opened I was thinking of applying for a 3 yr 870 visa. So if I am still not yet granted the 143 visa at the end of 3 years, will I be able automatically on the bridging A as the 143 is still pending or do I have to apply again for another 870 by going offshore?  

You have to go offshore and stay offshore for 3 months before you can reapply. Then add the time for processing the application. No bridging visas are allowed on 143

[harmitraj]

1 minute ago, LindaH27 said:

You have to go offshore and stay offshore for 3 months before you can reapply. Then add the time for processing the application. No bridging visas are allowed on 143

Better to apply for 5yr 870 visa then.  Thank you very much!

[ScottyM]

Hi all, I have a quick question if anyone could help with. We applied for our 870 visa in March 2020 just before the world went nuts. I'm guessing they are not yet processing these visa's although having paid our first instalment.

If and when they start processing again, can someone tell me when the visa starts, ie from date of issue or date of landing?

I have looked all over the Immi site and cannot find a thing about it.

Thanks in advance.

Scott.

[LindaH27]

12 minutes ago, ScottyM said:

Hi all, I have a quick question if anyone could help with. We applied for our 870 visa in March 2020 just before the world went nuts. I'm guessing they are not yet processing these visa's although having paid our first instalment.

If and when they start processing again, can someone tell me when the visa starts, ie from date of issue or date of landing?

I have looked all over the Immi site and cannot find a thing about it.

Thanks in advance.

Scott.

I believe it’s from the date of issue - as I assume it will also have an expiry date in common with most visas. 

[Lisa De Leon]

On 20/03/2021 at 02:09, ScottyM said:

Hi all, I have a quick question if anyone could help with. We applied for our 870 visa in March 2020 just before the world went nuts. I'm guessing they are not yet processing these visa's although having paid our first instalment.

If and when they start processing again, can someone tell me when the visa starts, ie from date of issue or date of landing?

I have looked all over the Immi site and cannot find a thing about it.

Thanks in advance.

Scott.

Hi Scott. The issue at the moment is getting a travel exemption approved. Under the current Border Force definition of immediate family member, this only includes partners and children  but not parents. The visa cannot be granted without an approved travel exemption. This is also the case with Visitor visas. The application can be lodged, but the visa will not be granted until the associated travel exemption request (TER) is approved. These TER are requiring a ridiculous amount of relationship evidence to be approved for partners, almost as much as a partner visa application. Until they include parents in the Inward Travel Directive they will not be able to be granted a visa while offshore. It's a different story for 870 applicants who are onshore.

inward-travel-restrictions-operation-directive.pdf

[Marcus.Skoll]

I wonder when the borders will open - will parents have to do the medicals again and sponsorship require re assessments?

Edited March 25, 2021 by Marcus.Skoll
Errors

[A&J]

I am in the process of applying for 870 visa and would like to know if form 80 is required. It suggests so in the visa ‘steps’ but asks for an amazing amount of detail that seems inappropriate for this visa.

As the visa is applied for online I can’t get past the first page to see what information is later required. Knowledge of what needs to be filled in before starting to fill in the form would be useful.

 

[Anks]

I hope you realise that until there are clear instructions from the Prime Minister about the borders opening for international visitors, you won't be able to get this visa granted. 

[Alan Collett]

14 minutes ago, Anks said:

I hope you realise that until there are clear instructions from the Prime Minister about the borders opening for international visitors, you won't be able to get this visa granted. 

Maybe not, but A&J should be in pole position to travel to Australia when restrictions ease.

Often visa strategy is about optimising your situation to take advantage of opportunities when they arise.   

That means spending money before there's certainty of outcome, but s/he who dares wins the prize!

Best regards.

[Anks]

True, wasn't there a lodgement period of 6 months once the sponsorship has been approved. Or has that been extended due to Covid? 

[Alan Collett]

27 minutes ago, Anks said:

True, wasn't there a lodgement period of 6 months once the sponsorship has been approved. Or has that been extended due to Covid? 

The requirement to submit the visa application within 6 months of sponsor approval still pertains.

However, subclass 870 visa applications aren't being granted at the moment, while border restrictions have their present settings.

Best regards.

[A&J]

Can anyone on a 870 visa from the UK comment on and how long the reciprocal health agreement with Australia lasts as the Australian websites refer to the ‘end of British health insurance’,  but I am not sure what this means or how others understand the arrangement. Thanks.

[LindaH27]

1 hour ago, A&J said:

Can anyone on a 870 visa from the UK comment on and how long the reciprocal health agreement with Australia lasts as the Australian websites refer to the ‘end of British health insurance’,  but I am not sure what this means or how others understand the arrangement. Thanks.

Not heard of that at all. Can You post  a link to the sites that say British health insurance is ending please??  You would normally be expected to take out private health insurance in 870 as you are expected to self support for all the time you are in Australia. It has to be equivalent to the coverage provided. By Medicare. 

Edited May 30, 2021 by LindaH27

[Marisawright]

3 hours ago, A&J said:

Can anyone on a 870 visa from the UK comment on and how long the reciprocal health agreement with Australia lasts as the Australian websites refer to the ‘end of British health insurance’,  but I am not sure what this means or how others understand the arrangement. Thanks.

That section actually states:

Your cover starts the day you arrive in Australia.

It ends when the first of these expires:

• your British health insurance
• your visa.

Notice, your cover ends when the FIRST of these expires.  That means that provided nothing happens to the NHS, you are covered until your visa expires.  

[palaceboy1]

Has anybody entered on a 870 only relying on the reciprocal health cover as I thought a Medicare card was only issued if you maintained the visa conditions .

[A&J]

@marisawright

The uncertainty is when British Health Insurance expires for a person on a long term temporary visa such as the 870. I can’t find any clear information on this on NHS or GOV sites. The best I have is from a (authoritative sounding) forum post which suggest this is 3 months.-

How long can a British citizen live in another country without coming back to the UK?You can leave the UK for 3 months and still use the NHS on return but if you settle abroad then you lose the right to use the NHS for free on your return - unless you are returning to settle in the UK. Sounds complicated - it is. If you move abroad to permanently settle abroad then after 3 months you can’t come back to UK just to use the NHS because that is the famous “Health Tourism” that the government says costs the NHS millions every year. But if you go on holiday abroad and maintain the UK as your domicile by returning to the UK for 91 nights each year then you can continue to use NHS for free when you are in the UK. GPs are not supposed to give prescriptions for more than 3 month periods to avoid this problem.

 

and that provided by New Zealand 

From  NZ (1) When assessing whether a UK citizen is ‘ordinarily resident’ in the UK, the duration of absence from the UK will be relevant.

(2) Note that the UK interprets ‘temporary stay’ as a stay of up to six months. New Zealanders travelling to the UK for longer than six months will still have access to the National Health Service, but will be required to pay an immigration health surcharge as part of their visa application from 6 April 2016. For more information, please visit the www.gov.uk website.

 (3) New Zealand generally interprets ‘temporary stay’ as being a stay that is less than 2 years duration by a person who does not have permanent residency in New Zealand or hold a work visa for more than 2 years.

 

Which might suggest 6 months!

 

OK - so rather complex but if anyone has anything to add it would be appreciated.

 

[Marisawright]

3 hours ago, A&J said:

@marisawright

The uncertainty is when British Health Insurance expires for a person on a long term temporary visa such as the 870.

That is a very good point and one that was in the back of my mind too.  I believe the 3 month limit is a relatively new thing, and that for many years, it was normal for British expats living in Spain or France to pop back to the UK for their medical treatment (which is why the limit was brought in).   But the bottom line is that it exists to stop you accessing the NHS when you return to the UK.  While you're overseas, there seems to be no mechanism to track you.

In practice, if you have a British passport AND you were resident in the UK immediately before arriving in Australia, you will get reciprocal Medicare on arrival.  After that there are no checks on your residency - for all Medicare knows, you could be jetting back and forth to the UK and still be legally resident there, so they can't make a unilateral decision. 

Therefore the only way Medicare would know is if the NHS tells them.  But the NHS won't know you've left the UK unless your GP removes you from their register - which many don't get around to, because they're overworked.  We've had members return years later and find they're still registered.  And even if you are taken off the register, the NHS can't notify Australia because they don't know you're there.

In practice, there are people who have been on temporary or bridging visas in Australia for 10 or 15 years and still accessing reciprocal Medicare.  

Edited June 4, 2021 by Marisawright

[ramot]

21 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

That is a very good point and one that was in the back of my mind too.  I believe the 3 month limit is a relatively new thing, and that for many years, it was normal for British expats living in Spain or France to pop back to the UK for their medical treatment (which is why the limit was brought in).   But the bottom line is that it exists to stop you accessing the NHS when you return to the UK.  While you're overseas, there seems to be no mechanism to track you.

In practice, if you have a British passport AND you were resident in the UK immediately before arriving in Australia, you will get reciprocal Medicare on arrival.  After that there are no checks on your residency - for all Medicare knows, you could be jetting back and forth to the UK and still be legally resident there, so they can't make a unilateral decision. 

Therefore the only way Medicare would know is if the NHS tells them.  But the NHS won't know you've left the UK unless your GP removes you from their register - which many don't get around to, because they're overworked.  We've had members return years later and find they're still registered.  And even if you are taken off the register, the NHS can't notify Australia because they don't know you're there.

In practice, there are people who have been on temporary or bridging visas in Australia for 10 or 15 years and still accessing reciprocal Medicare.  

The 3 month rule limit is not a new thing.

I was contacted by the NHS in 1999 and told it had come to their notice I was no longer living in the UK and therefore no longer eligible for the NHS. I was living between Brunei and England at that time, with no reciprocal agreement obviously, I said I was sure I was never away for over 3 months, and at that time still had our UK house which I lived in when in UK. I mentioned at the time what about the pensioners who went away for winter for many months, the person replied ‘Oh I don’t think many ever do that’. Any way I said I was never away over 3 months!!? and that was accepted.

The 3 month rule for prescriptions has also been in place for years. 

[Marisawright]

15 minutes ago, ramot said:

The 3 month rule limit is not a new thing.

I was contacted by the NHS in 1999 and told it had come to their notice I was no longer living in the UK and therefore no longer eligible for the NHS.

I wonder how they knew?

[ramot]

9 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

I wonder how they knew?

I often wondered that.

[palaceboy1]

3 hours ago, Marisawright said:

I wonder how they knew?

A friend of ours travelled to Spain in a motorhome, they went every year for six months in the winter signing on with the local doctors and received all manor of treatments under the reciprocal agreement . After five years they were asked to attend an interview with the NHS to explain the list of treatments claimed , it was at the interview that they were told that a percentage of overseas claims were audited every year . 

[ramot]

3 hours ago, palaceboy1 said:

A friend of ours travelled to Spain in a motorhome, they went every year for six months in the winter signing on with the local doctors and received all manor of treatments under the reciprocal agreement . After five years they were asked to attend an interview with the NHS to explain the list of treatments claimed , it was at the interview that they were told that a percentage of overseas claims were audited every year . 

That makes sense, but in my case no claims were made. 

[A&J]

Thanks all for the comments.

When applying for the 870 it looks like it is reasonable to refer to the reciprocal agreement as adequate health cover at least for the first few months.

[Marisawright]

4 hours ago, A&J said:

Thanks all for the comments.

When applying for the 870 it looks like it is reasonable to refer to the reciprocal agreement as adequate health cover at least for the first few months.

We’re saying you can reasonably rely on the reciprocal cover, however if the visa process asks you to prove you will be medically covered, that means you need a health insurance policy.