Partner Visa Onshore - Not in Aus yet

[FletcherFletcher]

I have been googling and searching but it’s a little difficult to be specific enough in my search.

Im English, have been with my Australian partner for 4 years. First 3 years in Australia and last year in UK.

Since living in UK we have been engaged, married and have found out we have a baby on the way. Big year!

We are now planning to move back to Australia in October on a partner visa with onshore application. The issue we are facing is how to go about entering Australia the ‘correct’ way. Will entering on a tourist visa raise questions around my intent to stay and if so I’m happy to be honest as we have nothing to hide but will my intent to stay cause us problems?

I’m looking to do everything by the book and from what I can see it’s perfectly legal to enter on tourist visa, my concern is being questioned regarding my intent to stay. 

Are there Any other avenues we should be pursuing?

Thanks for any help in advanced.

 

 

[Quoll]

You run the risk of being turned around at the border of you lie about your intentions. Why not put your application in now then apply for a tourist visa to visit while you wait - or, even more sensible, put it in now and wait for it to be issued then get your new baby's citizenship sorted and all go together without risks. Means you'll have to delay by a few months but better that than being turned around at the border or  being on tourist conditions and a bridging visa for a couple of years while you wait for an on shore visa to arrive.  

[FletcherFletcher]

Thanks very much for your reply.

When you say apply now then visit on a tourist visa are you referring to a 3 month tourist visa? Or are there other, longer options here? 

I understand the idea of waiting for offshore to be processed but is that not a considerable wait longer than a few months to return to Australia? and would mean having a baby in UK without family support. 

 

[Quoll]

10 minutes ago, FletcherFletcher said:

Thanks very much for your reply.

When you say apply now then visit on a tourist visa are you referring to a 3 month tourist visa? Or are there other, longer options here? 

I understand the idea of waiting for offshore to be processed but is that not a considerable wait longer than a few months to return to Australia? and would mean having a baby in UK without family support. 

 

Onshore visas are now taking 2 years +, off shore is quicker and several people have recently got their allocated quite quickly - quicker than they expected. Tourist visas are difficult especially if you are pregnant - medical cover could be tricky and you could get a tourist visa which says "no further stay".  Quite possible to have a baby without family support and you could move on quite quickly after the baby is registered and gets a passport (it will be Australian by descent). 

[Wonderingaloud]

Probably highly unlikely in your scenario, but I’m going to mention it anyway;

Be aware if you have your baby in Australia  you cannot leave Australia with your baby and go back to the UK unless your husband agrees. If he says no for any reason you cannot remove the child from Australia.

Personally I would like the security of a permanent visa before arriving in Australia than having a baby on a temp visa. If your visa is refused, you would have to leave the country, and potentially without the baby if your husband did not grant the child permission to go with you. Worse still your tourist visa has a no further stay condition, you have the baby in Australia anyway and can’t apply for another visa because you cannot stay.  

Its likely in this instance you would all go back to the UK together, rather than your husband making you leave without the baby, but I do think this legislation is worth being aware of. It’s called The Hague convention and many women are trapped in Australia where things have gone sour with their partners and out of spite they won’t allow the children to leave the country.

Have to agree with Quoll, apply for the partner visa offshore, it’ll be quicker and you’ll be entering Australia correctly. You won’t need a child 101 visa because the child will be an Australian citizen through the father.  Going through customs while pregnant will raise questions if you are on a tourist visa, it won’t look like you are there to visit on a temporary basis! 

 

 

Edited June 5, 2019 by Wonderingaloud

[Jon the Hat]

The risk is that you are in breach of your visitor visa terms and conditions if you then declare on arrival intent to apply for a partner visa.  This is not a good plan.

[FletcherFletcher]

Thanks gain for replies.

My fualt in my initial wording but it is my wife who is the australian citizen and ofcourse she is pregnant. 

Im concerned she is now going to have to return to australia to have our baby and i will be in UK waiting for my approval. If this is the case is thee any way in which i can visit whilst waiting for my offshore to be processed?

[paulhand]

The issue of making a further application whilst in Australia on a visitor visa has been addressed several times in the past months. Unless you have a "No further stay" condition on your current visa, it is not a breach of the conditions of a visitor visa to make a further application onshore.

 @wrussell has also posted Departmental policy on this here: 

 

[can1983]

We were in the same position a few years ago. We had our first baby in the uk, second in Australia. We sorted my pr spouse visa between the two and moved.

I understand your partner wants to have her family around and thats natural but i think you are trying to squeeze too much into 9 months! 

Id say holiday and apply onshore would only work if you get bridging visa work rights but even then you are less employable on this visa and this is not the time to be unemployed 

[Marisawright]

On 05/06/2019 at 02:55, FletcherFletcher said:

We are now planning to move back to Australia in October on a partner visa with onshore application. The issue we are facing is how to go about entering Australia the ‘correct’ way. Will entering on a tourist visa raise questions around my intent to stay and if so I’m happy to be honest as we have nothing to hide but will my intent to stay cause us problems?

Be aware that if you apply onshore, you won't be able to work until the visa is granted.   Onshore visas take a LOT longer than offshore now - we've got people on the forum who've been waiting for 2 years.  And of course, you're not entitled to any unemployment benefits either. Do you have savings to support you for that whole period?

I agree that you'd be wiser to apply for the partner visa offshore.  It will be a wait but it's much shorter than onshore.   Could you bring family over to provide support at the birth?

I hope you'll forget the onshore idea, this is my understanding:  as Paul Hand said, it's not illegal to arrive on a tourist visa with the intention of applying for a permanent visa. However, it is illegal to arrive on a tourist visa with the intention of staying permanently.  What that means is, the Immigration Officer has to decide whether he thinks you're an obedient person who'll leave the country if your visa is refused (in which case you'll be let through), or if you might be tempted to stay on regardless (in hwich case you'll be deported).  It's up to that officer on the day, no appeal.  I don't think you need that kind of stress and uncertainty in your current circumstances!

Edited June 8, 2019 by Marisawright

[ramot]

3 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Be aware that if you apply onshore, you won't be able to work until the visa is granted.   Onshore visas take a LOT longer than offshore now - we've got people on the forum who've been waiting for 2 years.  And of course, you're not entitled to any unemployment benefits either. Do you have savings to support you for that whole period?

I agree that you'd be wiser to apply for the partner visa offshore.  It will be a wait but it's much shorter than onshore.   Could you bring family over to provide support at the birth?

I hope you'll forget the onshore idea, this is my understanding:  as Paul Hand said, it's not illegal to arrive on a tourist visa with the intention of applying for a permanent visa. However, it is illegal to arrive on a tourist visa with the intention of staying permanently.  What that means is, the Immigration Officer has to decide whether he thinks you're an obedient person who'll leave the country if your visa is refused (in which case you'll be let through), or if you might be tempted to stay on regardless (in hwich case you'll be deported).  It's up to that officer on the day, no appeal.  I don't think you need that kind of stress and uncertainty in your current circumstances!

Has the no work rule changed? I thought that when your bridging visa kicked in on the application for partner visas, you could work? My daughter certainly could. This is worth checking.

google  

can I work on a bridging visa as a de facto, appears generally yes, and also yes you can apply for partner visa when on a tourist visa. Up to the poster if they want to take the chance.

Please poster personally check what I have written, as I am not a MA.

Edited June 9, 2019 by ramot

[Nemesis]

2 hours ago, ramot said:

Has the no work rule changed? I thought that when your bridging visa kicked in on the application for partner visas, you could work? My daughter certainly could. This is worth checking.

google  

can I work on a bridging visa as a de facto, appears generally yes, and also yes you can apply for partner visa when on a tourist visa. Up to the poster if they want to take the chance.

Please poster personally check what I have written, as I am not a MA.

Yes, the current rule is that if one applies for a Partner Visa onshore then one has full working rights once the Bridging Visa kicks in

[Amber Snowball]

49 minutes ago, Nemesis said:

Yes, the current rule is that if one applies for a Partner Visa onshore then one has full working rights once the Bridging Visa kicks in

Yes I think  I have seen the agents on here say you get working rights with a partner visa application when on a bridging visa.

[Marisawright]

Sorry you are correct, I found the posts I was thinking of and they were partners of Kiwis

[can1983]

But the op should remember right to work doesnt mean a right to get a job. Being on a transient visa with no certain outcome makes getting a decent job harder.

As i said before not a time to be unemployed 

[Marisawright]

29 minutes ago, can1983 said:

But the op should remember right to work doesnt mean a right to get a job. Being on a transient visa with no certain outcome makes getting a decent job harder.

As i said before not a time to be unemployed 

Very true

[FletcherFletcher]

Thank you all so much for your input. We are 90% sure we will now lodge offshore and also through an agent here in London as to get everything spot on and by the book.

 

One more thing, where I am reading here: https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-listing/partner-offshore/provisional-309#HowTo it states that 'if you are married provide your marriage certificate. If you are de facto, provide proof of your de facto relationship.' Does this mean we will not have to supply the following points listed on the website as follows because we are married not de facto?...

 

Your relationship with your partner

If you are married, provide your marriage certificate or other evidence that your marriage is valid in Australia. If you are a de facto partner, provide proof of your de facto relationship.

This proof should show that:

• you have a mutual commitment with your spouse of de facto partner to the exclusion of all others
• your relationship is genuine and continuing
• you either live together or don't live permanently apart
• you are not related by family

Tell us in writing about:

• how, when and where you first met
• how the relationship developed
• when you moved in together, got engaged or married
• what you do together
• time you spent apart
• significant events in the relationship
• your plans for the future

Finances

Show us how you and your partner share financial matters. You could give us:

• joint mortgage or lease documents
• joint loan documents for major assets like homes, cars or major appliances
• joint bank account statements
• household bills in both names

Your household

Show us how you and your partner share domestic matters. You could give us:

• a statement about how you share housework
• household bills in both names
• mail or emails addressed to you both
• documents that show joint responsibility for children
• documents that prove your living arrangements

Social matters

Show us that others know about your relationship. You could give us:

• joint invitations or evidence you go out together
• proof you have friends in common
• proof you have told government, public or commercial bodies about your relationship
• proof you do joint sporting, cultural or social activities together
• proof you travel together
• statutory declarations from your partner's parents, family members, relatives and friends about how they see your relationship. 

Commitment

Show us how you are committed to a long-term relationship with each other. You could give us:

• proof you have knowledge of each other’s background, family situation or other personal details. You could tell us this at an interview
• proof you have combined your personal matters
• the terms of your wills
• proof you stay in touch when apart

Edited June 11, 2019 by FletcherFletcher

[ali]

5 hours ago, FletcherFletcher said:

Thank you all so much for your input. We are 90% sure we will now lodge offshore and also through an agent here in London as to get everything spot on and by the book.

 

One more thing, where I am reading here: https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-listing/partner-offshore/provisional-309#HowTo it states that 'if you are married provide your marriage certificate. If you are de facto, provide proof of your de facto relationship.' Does this mean we will not have to supply the following points listed on the website as follows because we are married not de facto?...

 

Your relationship with your partner

If you are married, provide your marriage certificate or other evidence that your marriage is valid in Australia. If you are a de facto partner, provide proof of your de facto relationship.

This proof should show that:

• you have a mutual commitment with your spouse of de facto partner to the exclusion of all others
• your relationship is genuine and continuing
• you either live together or don't live permanently apart
• you are not related by family

Tell us in writing about:

• how, when and where you first met
• how the relationship developed
• when you moved in together, got engaged or married
• what you do together
• time you spent apart
• significant events in the relationship
• your plans for the future

Finances

Show us how you and your partner share financial matters. You could give us:

• joint mortgage or lease documents
• joint loan documents for major assets like homes, cars or major appliances
• joint bank account statements
• household bills in both names

Your household

Show us how you and your partner share domestic matters. You could give us:

• a statement about how you share housework
• household bills in both names
• mail or emails addressed to you both
• documents that show joint responsibility for children
• documents that prove your living arrangements

Social matters

Show us that others know about your relationship. You could give us:

• joint invitations or evidence you go out together
• proof you have friends in common
• proof you have told government, public or commercial bodies about your relationship
• proof you do joint sporting, cultural or social activities together
• proof you travel together
• statutory declarations from your partner's parents, family members, relatives and friends about how they see your relationship. 

Commitment

Show us how you are committed to a long-term relationship with each other. You could give us:

• proof you have knowledge of each other’s background, family situation or other personal details. You could tell us this at an interview
• proof you have combined your personal matters
• the terms of your wills
• proof you stay in touch when apart

I've read on the forum previously, that marriage in itself isn't  'proof' (I guess there are sham marriages).  We didn't have to supply information (we'd been married 12 years and had 2 children), I do know others who hadn't been married long to provided additional proof of the longevity of their relationship

[Wonderingaloud]

My understanding is the longer you’ve been married the less proof you need, but you will still need some proof that it’s a genuine relationship. As Ali says marriage in its own is not enough. Lots of applications for partner visas are fraudulent hence the long processing time. Immigration will need more proof. If you’ve been married a while and have children this shouldn’t be difficult, but I’d still throw everything I could at them to ensure I got the visa.

Make sure your agent is MARA registered, this offers some protection to you the consumer in the event mistakes are made. 

Good luck 

[Marisawright]

9 hours ago, FletcherFletcher said:

One more thing, where I am reading here: https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-listing/partner-offshore/provisional-309#HowTo it states that 'if you are married provide your marriage certificate. If you are de facto, provide proof of your de facto relationship.' Does this mean we will not have to supply the following points listed on the website as follows because we are married not de facto?...

Having a marriage certificate makes no difference, since people do contract fake marriages to get a visa. So you still have to submit all the evidence.

[can1983]

3 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Having a marriage certificate makes no difference, since people do contract fake marriages to get a visa. So you still have to submit all the evidence.

Its also worth noting that you need evidence even if you've been married 20 years with 6 children

The requirements are for ongoing relationship. If you've decided to divorce amicably but done a deal to ensure the non Australian gets pr to also be able to live and see the children after the Australian returns home that strictly speaking isn't allowed.

But hey you also can't get a visa if you throw your keys into a bowl every now and then

[barry]

As an aussie citizen living in UK with a future wife who lives in Russia , trying ton comply with the undermentioned is almost impossible although geeting my 

wife a credit card and debitv card as a second person on my accout might be possible . She had a job in Moscow and we meet  on holiday or visits me for a few weeks .

Could this be a major prioblem or are visa officers  a little understanding as OZ government are becoming  hostile to foreigners as is policy  of right wing Tory 

government in the UK , eg Windrush generation etc. ?   Hoping someone will kindly comment 

Show us how you and your partner share financial matters. You could give us:

• joint mortgage or lease documents
• joint loan documents for major assets like homes, cars or major appliances
• joint bank account statements
• household bills in both names

Your household

 

[Jon the Hat]

4 minutes ago, barry said:

As an aussie citizen living in UK with a future wife who lives in Russia , trying ton comply with the undermentioned is almost impossible although geeting my 

wife a credit card and debitv card as a second person on my accout might be possible . She had a job in Moscow and we meet  on holiday or visits me for a few weeks .

Could this be a major prioblem or are visa officers  a little understanding as OZ government are becoming  hostile to foreigners as is policy  of right wing Tory 

government in the UK , eg Windrush generation etc. ?   Hoping someone will kindly comment 

Show us how you and your partner share financial matters. You could give us:

• joint mortgage or lease documents
• joint loan documents for major assets like homes, cars or major appliances
• joint bank account statements
• household bills in both names

Your household

 

I would suggest you use a MARA registered agent, as it is not so simple if you are not living together to prove you are defacto.

[barry]

would be a waste of time and money and you are obviusly an agent . It is not a de facto situation as I explained ( smile ). An agent can   NOT change  

the dynamics as impossible for a foreign citizen to  get a bank account as would not pass the credit checks . a wife is not a de facto partner .

[Marisawright]

36 minutes ago, barry said:

As an aussie citizen living in UK with a future wife who lives in Russia , trying ton comply with the undermentioned is almost impossible although geeting my wife a credit card and debitv card as a second person on my accout might be possible . She had a job in Moscow and we meet  on holiday or visits me for a few weeks .

 

You could not apply for the partner visa because you are not married yet, nor are you de facto.     As I understand it, you are currently dating, in a committed relationship and planning to marry?   In that case I suggest you look into the Prospective Marriage Visa.   There's no need to provide evidence of joint finances for a Prospective Marriage Visa, since many people planning to marry have a religious objection to cohabitation before marriage. 

However  I would strongly suggest you use a MARA registered agent to prepare the application.   It's true an agent can't change the facts, BUT they know what Immigration expects and can advise you exactly what evidence will be most effective, and present the strongest case possible.   

I think that's particularly important in your case, because (as I'm sure you know) there is a lot of fraud involving "mail order brides" from Eastern Europe and Asia, so Immigration is likely to be more cautious about a long-distance relationship involving women from those regions.  So you need to be sure your case is watertight.

Edited June 27, 2019 by Marisawright