Vacation Days (what's normal?)

[Admirator]

Hi guys,

 

I'm planning to realize my long term dream of moving to Melbourne Australia this fall, first on a 2yr TSS visa. I got offered a job as a Senior Consultant with a big company, and have just received the contractual details for me to review, ahead of kicking off the visa process.

For annual leave, they offer 20 days, plus 10 paid "personal days", which I assume are only for illness etc.

Here in Germany, we also have a right to 20 days but many companies (mine included) give 30. 

As I will want to travel to my family in both Europe and the US at least once a year, I would love to have more than 20 days. 

My question: is that something that is normal in Australia, companies giving (new) employees more than 20 days? Is it something I should ask for?

I don't want to seem ungrateful, as they have already been very nice with salary, sponsoring and relocation.

What do you guys think?

Also, can I use the 10 paid "personal days" as vacation days if I wasn't sick that year?

 

 

Thanks for your help!!

[LouDYorkie]

20 is normal here, I also dropped from 30 days to 20. But, leave accrues continually, it is not an upfront allowance that you must use within the year like it is in the U.K. and Germany and so you could just keep allowing the leave to accrue until you have enough for a trip.

Some companies allow purchased leave where you could buy an additional 5 or 10 days.

Most organisations would not allow you to take personal leave as additional annual leave. Personal leave also accrues, so if you are still there in a few years (visa dependent) and you have a need for a long time off sick or to care for someone, those days are there for that purpose.

Be careful of unpaid leave....if you take it before a public holiday, your public holiday(s) are also unpaid!

 

[ali]

Yes 20 days is the norm - do check with your company how much leave you can accrue before you have to take it (some places you can not accrue more than 8 weeks)

[Beffers]

35 minutes ago, Admirator said:

Hi guys,

 

I'm planning to realize my long term dream of moving to Melbourne Australia this fall, first on a 2yr TSS visa. I got offered a job as a Senior Consultant with a big company, and have just received the contractual details for me to review, ahead of kicking off the visa process.

For annual leave, they offer 20 days, plus 10 paid "personal days", which I assume are only for illness etc.

Here in Germany, we also have a right to 20 days but many companies (mine included) give 30. 

As I will want to travel to my family in both Europe and the US at least once a year, I would love to have more than 20 days. 

My question: is that something that is normal in Australia, companies giving (new) employees more than 20 days? Is it something I should ask for?

I don't want to seem ungrateful, as they have already been very nice with salary, sponsoring and relocation.

What do you guys think?

Also, can I use the 10 paid "personal days" as vacation days if I wasn't sick that year?

 

 

Thanks for your help!!

20 days in the norm. Some firms offer the chance to buy additional but not all.

[Jon the Hat]

It appears to be more of a thing in Oz to save up holiday over a few years and then take a chunk of time out.  Also some have extra weeks for long service 5, 10, 15 year etc.

[Marisawright]

28 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

It appears to be more of a thing in Oz to save up holiday over a few years and then take a chunk of time out.  Also some have extra weeks for long service 5, 10, 15 year etc.

That used to be the case but less so now.   Untaken leave is a liability on the balance sheet so most companies have rules - if you don't take your leave within a certain timeframe (usually at the end of the following year), you forfeit it, or it will be paid out.   If you're a very valued employee you can sometimes talk your way around that but it's not automatic.

I used to save my leave and take a six-week break every two years (to visit my family in the UK).   That's still possible.

Long service leave is still a thing but very few people ever claim it these days.  There are thresholds at 5 and 10 years, but you don't actually get to take any leave at that point - it just means you will get the extra money if you get made redundant.  You have to stick it out till you reach the 15 year mark before you can actually take the leave. 

Edited June 3, 2019 by Marisawright

[LouDYorkie]

Long service leave is still a thing but very few people ever claim it these days.  There are thresholds at 5 and 10 years, but you don't actually get to take any leave at that point - it just means you will get the extra money if you get made redundant.  You have to stick it out till you reach the 15 year mark before you can actually take the leave. 

I understood you can take it after 7 in VIC and ACT and after 10 in all other states...?

[Marisawright]

2 minutes ago, LouDYorkie said:

I understood you can take it after 7 in VIC and ACT and after 10 in all other states...?

It used to be much the same across all states but things do change, you could well be right.  

[Admirator]

Thanks for all the replies!

So from what I gather, pretty much no employee (let alone new employees) in Australia gets more than 20 days, so I shouldn't even bother asking them and possibly make the wrong impression, right?

[Marisawright]

2 hours ago, Admirator said:

Thanks for all the replies!

So from what I gather, pretty much no employee (let alone new employees) in Australia gets more than 20 days, so I shouldn't even bother asking them and possibly make the wrong impression, right?

Right 

[Nemesis]

3 hours ago, LouDYorkie said:

I understood you can take it after 7 in VIC and ACT and after 10 in all other states...?

Most queensland government departments let you start to use it after 7 years. They will also let you accrue leave up to about 6 months worth and then take it all in one go. Sick leave just keeps accruing throughout your service, if you don't use any you lose it all when you retire. Annual leave and Long Service all gets paid out on retirement. 

Don't know about private companies, but government agencies are still pretty generous with leave allowances. 

Edited June 3, 2019 by Nemesis

[Eera]

I've been in industry consultancy in Qld for a good few years, so may be slightly different in Victoria but the various companies I've worked for have all been much of a muchness when it comes to leave.  20 days is normal, my current company allows us to purchase an extra 5 or 10 days' leave per year through salary sacrifice (I've seen other companies off up to 20 days' extra).  You will not be able to take personal leave as a vacation.

Public holidays are paid extra days off, I think we currently have 10 per year, which tend to be heavily loaded towards the first half of the year.

Long service leave varies state by state, from memory NT is the most generous with something like 13 weeks accessable after 7 years.  Most states are 10 weeks / 10 years but you'd have to check with your employer.  In some industries this is transferable across jobs - coal mining is one of them - but for the most part if you leave before your LSL matures you lose it (it can also be altered under industrial award, my OH got his after 8 years but that probably won't affect you if you're in professional services).  It is paid out after redundancy after 7 years here in QLD (check with your state though).

While leave accrues, your company may have a policy which forces you to take it after a set period, we technically do that after 2 years, though TBH I've never actually seen that enforced.  My company allows you to take unpaid sabbaticals of up to a year after many years' continuous service, don't quite know what that is as a year without pay doesn't tickle my fancy so never looked into it, this may also be provided by other companies.

In some industries, they allow you to get paid out on excess untaken sick leave but I've only ever seen people on Industrial Awards have this done. 

Edited June 3, 2019 by Eera

[Bulya]

8 hours ago, Admirator said:

Thanks for all the replies!

So from what I gather, pretty much no employee (let alone new employees) in Australia gets more than 20 days, so I shouldn't even bother asking them and possibly make the wrong impression, right?

Correct.  

[ali]

9 hours ago, LouDYorkie said:

I understood you can take it after 7 in VIC and ACT and after 10 in all other states...?

It varies - my husband got it after 7 here in WA whilst I had to wait 10 years.  I have to take the leave (12 weeks) within a 2 year time frame

[LouDYorkie]

It varies - my husband got it after 7 here in WA whilst I had to wait 10 years.  I have to take the leave (12 weeks) within a 2 year time frame

Yes, it does vary. I’m just outlining the ‘standard’ for each state. So in ACT for example, you couldn’t be made to wait 10 years.

[MaggieMay24]

13 hours ago, Marisawright said:

That used to be the case but less so now.   Untaken leave is a liability on the balance sheet so most companies have rules - if you don't take your leave within a certain timeframe (usually at the end of the following year), you forfeit it, or it will be paid out.   If you're a very valued employee you can sometimes talk your way around that but it's not automatic.

Making an employee forfeit annual leave is not allowed so possibly it could be paid out but the only other possibility is for the employer to direct the employee to use their leave.

[LouDYorkie]

Making an employee forfeit annual leave is not allowed so possibly it could be paid out but the only other possibility is for the employer to direct the employee to use their leave.

Yes, most modern awards changed in 2016 to allow employers to direct employees to take leave considered excessive. EA’s (Enterprise Agreements) also tend to have a clause now.

[DT55]

On 03/06/2019 at 23:09, LouDYorkie said:

I understood you can take it after 7 in VIC and ACT and after 10 in all other states...?

I thonk its company specific. I can take Long service leave at 7 and 10 years. Im in QLD. I can also cash in personal leave if you have enough and been with the company long enough

[Parley]

Some professions get more eg police and other emergency services I think.

Teachers obviously get lots of holidays.

[AussieMum]

16 hours ago, Parley said:

Some professions get more eg police and other emergency services I think.

Teachers obviously get lots of holidays.

Teachers here in Victoria get about 11 weeks where they're not required at school.  

• Many teachers spend at least half of that time catching up on admin work from last term and planning and preparing for the term/year ahead.
• It's not at all unusual for many teachers to be sick during school holidays once they stop running around like headless chooks and it catches up to them - unlike other industries you can't have those days counted as sick leave and get your annual leave days credited back to you to use another time.
• You don't get any choice about when you have time off.
• You still only get paid leave loading for 20 days and it's paid as a lump sum once a year if you're lucky enough to be ongoing.  If you're on short-term contracts, they only cover holidays that fall during the contract period, eg, if you have a contract that is for terms 3 and 4, you only get paid during the break at the end of term 3.  
• Other working parents will ask or assume that you'll provide childcare for free because you're not at work.

(yes, some of these points are relevant to other industries as well, eg, in hospitality getting time off in peak periods is nearly impossible)

OP isn't a teacher so it isn't relevant in their scenario.  I love that my husband is around to look after the kids in their school holidays while I work but being a teacher definitely doesn't mean you only work 9 am - 3 pm for 40 weeks a year.

[Marisawright]

36 minutes ago, AussieMum said:

 I love that my husband is around to look after the kids in their school holidays while I work but being a teacher definitely doesn't mean you only work 9 am - 3 pm for 40 weeks a year.

Very true. I bit my tongue at the comment but I used to be married to a teacher and I felt he earned his "long holidays".   The school day is short, but after that you've got marking students' work and lesson preparation to do, plus extra duties like supervising detention and Saturday sports. During term-time he worked a 6-day week, so I felt like he was due the longer holidays just as time in lieu.

[ali]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

Very true. I bit my tongue at the comment but I used to be married to a teacher and I felt he earned his "long holidays".   The school day is short, but after that you've got marking students' work and lesson preparation to do, plus extra duties like supervising detention and Saturday sports. During term-time he worked a 6-day week, so I felt like he was due the longer holidays just as time in lieu.

I agree, as a mum to a reasonably newly qualified teacher (18 months), it's opened my eyes as to how much work is involved.  Her rostered prep time is often used by having to relieve another  class and most recently to oversee NAPLAN.  There are meetings after work, extra curricular activities, open nights, parents evening.  Having to take holidays at the most expensive times (she has to take unpaid leave to attend a wedding) and not to mention all the marking.

[starlight7]

Not to mention the ghastly camps teachers have to attend  usually involving weekends.

[Paul1Perth]

On Monday, June 03, 2019 at 21:09, LouDYorkie said:

I understood you can take it after 7 in VIC and ACT and after 10 in all other states...?

I think it's more company dependant. The company I work for leave keeps accruing, long service, annual and personal. They have rules about how much you should have but don't enforce them.

We also got TOIL (time off in lieu) on one project as we were working away from home and doing long hours. I had 6 weeks TOIL at Christmas and didn't touch my holidays that year.

My holidays kept accruing, my long service leave kicked in at 10 years, so 3 more months which then keeps accruing. I've been able to have my holidays when I want too. Usually saved them and had nice long ones over Christmas and New Year when the weather is great.

Still got about 10 weeks to come.

[Saurer Pfirsich]

I work in the not-for-profit sector in Melbourne and qualified for long service leave earlier this year after 7 years continuous service. It’s worked out as an extra 6 weeks of leave - very handy for our next family holiday back home and in Europe  next month. It will also continue to accumulate  whilst I remain with the organisation, so that’s an extra 4 days leave per year, which helps with covering the school holidays.