Think outside the (city) box

[Shigella]

It’s now 5 years since hubby’s partner visa came through, and 4.5y since we made the move.

I haven’t really been back here in this time, but I got a notification about an updated thread and it prompted me to come back and browse the forums.

One recurring theme is the high cost of living, and the challenges of securing and/or affording a house (regardless of whether you’re renting or buying) and yet at the same time, almost all the questions are about the major cities, usually Sydney or Melbourne.

I realise most people live in major cities, worldwide, but I wanted to raise the profile of the regional centres and let people know how much can be gained by looking outside the major cities to the regional centres.   In Australia, regional centres often punch above their weight: they serve a much wider geographical area and a much higher population base than their published population size suggests.  This means that facilities and services can be very generous, while at the same time cost of living can be MUCH cheaper.

After moving here we weren’t really sure where we wanted to live, so we bought a caravan and set out to travel the country for two years.  We stopped to work when we needed money, often in regional centres, and when it was time to settle down we resolved to accept the best job offer that wasn’t in a major city.  That job turned out to be in Mildura, a regional centre on the Murray River in NW Victoria.  Hubby works in healthcare and secured a package as good as any he could get in a city, but our house cost about a third of what the same house would cost in the city.  While property prices are falling in the cities, our town had the biggest increases in property prices in the state last year (12%).   There is a housing boom happening here, with a massive housing shortage driving new development all over town.  Our British family came to visit 6m ago and were very impressed with our house, saying that their whole house could fit in our front room, and we also have a huge backyard.   There is a large selection of schools. And the zoning is not tight, so if your preferred school is outside your zone there is a good chance you’ll get a place.  Even if it’s on the other side of town, that’s only 15min away, tops.  Sports and activities for kids are abundant (our kids chose to do BMX Racing, but there are all the other options besides).   If you like the culture and atmosphere of city sporting or arts events, Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide are an affordable 1hr flight away.

If you’re a builder, tradesman, or have the skills to run your own construction-related business you can pretty much name your price.  Healthcare services are short staffed, and job offers are generous to secure staff and the expanding population means there are many opportunities in education too.  

If you are concerned about the cost of housing or opportunities in the cities, I urge you to look at the regional centres in whatever state appeals to you.  

You can find superb lifestyle opportunities for a fraction of the living cost if you are willing to step outside the major cities.

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Shigella said:

It’s now 5 years since hubby’s partner visa came through, and 4.5y since we made the move.

I haven’t really been back here in this time, but I got a notification about an updated thread and it prompted me to come back and browse the forums.

One recurring theme is the high cost of living, and the challenges of securing and/or affording a house (regardless of whether you’re renting or buying) and yet at the same time, almost all the questions are about the major cities, usually Sydney or Melbourne.

I realise most people live in major cities, worldwide, but I wanted to raise the profile of the regional centres and let people know how much can be gained by looking outside the major cities to the regional centres.

I agree.   A few times recently, we've had people posting about moving to Sydney, with a rental/purchase budget that's woefully inadequate.  

I always ask if they have a strong reason for moving to one of those cities - and if not, I'll try to steer them towards a regional city.    Sadly, I often see them continuing to ask questions about Sydney - it's clear my suggestions have made absolutely no impact.  I always fear they'll end up in the wilds of Mount Druitt, or burdened with impossible debt, and they'll be miserable.  

I would class Mildura as country living and it doesn't suit me - but for those who prefer more of a city life, there's places like Newcastle, Wollongong, Ballarat, Bendigo, etc.

Edited April 24, 2019 by Marisawright

[calNgary]

Totally agree, we did similar back when we migrated, and are just under an hour from the city in a semi rural area. So much more value for value and never struggled for work.

Cal x

[Bobj]

This is my 56th year in Australia and in that time, have only spent about 2 years in cities, And I have lived a full and very happy life in the Kimberley and Pilbara Regions in WA, New England in NSW and retirement in theWhitsunday Region.

Cheers, Bobj.

[FatCat]

On 24/04/2019 at 16:23, Shigella said:

If you are concerned about the cost of housing or opportunities in the cities, I urge you to look at the regional centres in whatever state appeals to you.  

You can find superb lifestyle opportunities for a fraction of the living cost if you are willing to step outside the major cities.

Hi

Old post I know, so hope it is OK to comment. Some forum moderators get annoyed at people rehashing old posts, and I am new, so unsure of the rules here.

Whilst I agree with you in principle (lifestyle and cheaper property prices), in reality it can be extremely hard for outsiders in rural areas.

Even more so if you happen to be Indian or African-American, because racism is still quite high outside the cities.

I have found a lot of rural areas or small towns to be very insular, and unwelcoming to outsiders. Therefore that makes getting employment extremely hard, as the view is locals first. In these areas to be a local means more than just living there now, they mean that your family has lived there for generations.

My husband was born in Mildura and grew up there, and even he found it hard to get a decent job there when he returned from University. He ended up doing menial low paying jobs like fruit picking and bar work for nearly a year. When he eventually left for the city to start his career, the unemployment rate was very high still. He landed in Melbourne and had a good paying decent job in his chosen field within a fortnight.

If you work in healthcare, or you have a trade, then yes I reckon you could get a job practically anywhere in the country. But for a lot of other occupations, then you could be struggling to get your foot in the door, as locals (with less experience and qualifications) will be given first consideration.

I have lived in NSW, NT, VIC and QLD, and in some rural areas (including Mildura) I certainly experienced this insular way of thinking  

But if you can get a decent job, then yes Mildura is a nice enough country town to live in for a relaxed cheaper lifestyle.

For me, I like being near the beach for now. And the "beach" at Apex Park will not suffice my needs.

 

 

[ali]

28 minutes ago, FatCat said:

Hi

Old post I know, so hope it is OK to comment. Some forum moderators get annoyed at people rehashing old posts, and I am new, so unsure of the rules here.

Whilst I agree with you in principle (lifestyle and cheaper property prices), in reality it can be extremely hard for outsiders in rural areas.

Even more so if you happen to be Indian or African-American, because racism is still quite high outside the cities.

I have found a lot of rural areas or small towns to be very insular, and unwelcoming to outsiders. Therefore that makes getting employment extremely hard, as the view is locals first. In these areas to be a local means more than just living there now, they mean that your family has lived there for generations.

My husband was born in Mildura and grew up there, and even he found it hard to get a decent job there when he returned from University. He ended up doing menial low paying jobs like fruit picking and bar work for nearly a year. When he eventually left for the city to start his career, the unemployment rate was very high still. He landed in Melbourne and had a good paying decent job in his chosen field within a fortnight.

If you work in healthcare, or you have a trade, then yes I reckon you could get a job practically anywhere in the country. But for a lot of other occupations, then you could be struggling to get your foot in the door, as locals (with less experience and qualifications) will be given first consideration.

I have lived in NSW, NT, VIC and QLD, and in some rural areas (including Mildura) I certainly experienced this insular way of thinking  

But if you can get a decent job, then yes Mildura is a nice enough country town to live in for a relaxed cheaper lifestyle.

For me, I like being near the beach for now. And the "beach" at Apex Park will not suffice my needs.

 

 

No issue with old posts being rehashed , but generally you may find that some of the contributors or the OP may have moved on and if asking a question of them directly you won't get a response.  Equally, sometimes members see it's an old post and don't bother with it - it's sometimes better to start a new thread.

[FatCat]

8 minutes ago, ali said:

No issue with old posts being rehashed , but generally you may find that some of the contributors or the OP may have moved on and if asking a question of them directly you won't get a response.  Equally, sometimes members see it's an old post and don't bother with it - it's sometimes better to start a new thread.

Thanks

Good to know you don't mind rehashing old threads.

The last forum I was on, the moderators were positively feral about rehashing posts older than three months.

I have noticed that the forum is a little inactive, hence me looking back at older posts.

Anyway not really worried if I get a response or not, as new members (such as myself) may find the topic useful, relatable and interesting still.

Having been in the exact situation of moving rural, it is a very relatable subject for me

Plus I am in lockdown at the moment, so have plenty of time on my hands to read older posts

 

[MARYROSE02]

On 25/04/2019 at 08:06, Bobj said:

This is my 56th year in Australia and in that time, have only spent about 2 years in cities, And I have lived a full and very happy life in the Kimberley and Pilbara Regions in WA, New England in NSW and retirement in theWhitsunday Region.

Cheers, Bobj.

I had never lived in a city until I came to Australia, which is why I'm only half joking when I say I should have moved to London for a year to prepare myself for Sydney. 

 

Surfers Paradise is strange because it is not unlike living in the centre of Sydney, with everything within walking distance,  but there are no miles and miles of suburbs. Well perhaps there are because Surfers Paradise could be an outlying suburb of Brisbane. 

 

I'm changing my mind as I write! It is like living in Surry Hills but I can walk to the beach! There! Nailed it.

[Bulya]

Bush Capital now after years in Adelaide, Melbourne, and Newcastle, it’s the best of both worlds.  Definitely not cheap though..

[Bobj]

On 25/04/2019 at 08:06, Bobj said:

This is my 56th year in Australia and in that time, have only spent about 2 years in cities, And I have lived a full and very happy life in the Kimberley and Pilbara Regions in WA, New England in NSW and retirement in theWhitsunday Region.

Cheers, Bobj.

Just realised after reading this thread again that I have lived in a 10’x8’ tent as long as I have lived in cities...2 years and enjoyed it more! Also lived for 2 years in ‘dog boxes’, in the Pilbara, building iron ore railroads.

Cheers, Bobj.

[Guest The Pom Queen]

4 hours ago, Bobj said:

Just realised after reading this thread again that I have lived in a 10’x8’ tent as long as I have lived in cities...2 years and enjoyed it more! Also lived for 2 years in ‘dog boxes’, in the Pilbara, building iron ore railroads.

Cheers, Bobj.

Are “dog boxes” dongas? 

[Bobj]

4 hours ago, The Pom Queen said:

Are “dog boxes” dongas? 

@The Pom Queen. Yes, also known as skid units, de-mountables and sardine cans.

Cheers, Bobj.

[MARYROSE02]

I imagine the reason so many people want to move to Sydney is because it is Australia's "Big Apple", and the only city in Australia which possesses genuine world-renowned.  icons - Sydney Opera House, Sydney Harbour Bridge, Bondi Beach and the New Year's Eve fireworks. Once you are living in Sydney you may never see any of them but it is what draws you in the first place.

There may be plenty of better places to live in Australia, Surfers Paradise for example. I don't miss Sydney now I'm here. But when I came to Australia, without intending to live in Sydney, that is where I washed up. I do remember thinking, "I'm going back home but I will see the Opera House and the Bridge before I do so."

[FirstWorldProblems]

35 minutes ago, MARYROSE02 said:

I imagine the reason so many people want to move to Sydney is because it is Australia's "Big Apple", and the only city in Australia which possesses genuine world-renowned.  icons - Sydney Opera House, Sydney Harbour Bridge, Bondi Beach and the New Year's Eve fireworks. Once you are living in Sydney you may never see any of them but it is what draws you in the first place.

There may be plenty of better places to live in Australia, Surfers Paradise for example. I don't miss Sydney now I'm here. But when I came to Australia, without intending to live in Sydney, that is where I washed up. I do remember thinking, "I'm going back home but I will see the Opera House and the Bridge before I do so."

That's certainly our experience.  We've been doing annual visits to Sydney for 18 years to see the wife's parents and 4 siblings and they only go to the beach when we are in town and drag them to Clontarf or Balmoral.  Everyone is too busy with work, chores and taking kids to football/rugby/dance etc at the weekend and don't have the inclination to fight the traffic and pay 3 tolls each way from Castle Hill.

 

[MARYROSE02]

2 hours ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

That's certainly our experience.  We've been doing annual visits to Sydney for 18 years to see the wife's parents and 4 siblings and they only go to the beach when we are in town and drag them to Clontarf or Balmoral.  Everyone is too busy with work, chores and taking kids to football/rugby/dance etc at the weekend and don't have the inclination to fight the traffic and pay 3 tolls each way from Castle Hill.

 

But you also know that they are there just waiting to surprise you.  I live in Surry Hills so it's three stops on the train to Circular Quay, or a half an hour walk. If I drive over the harbour I ALWAYS use the bridge so I can glimpse the OH from the Cahill Expressway, and again from the Bridge itself if i risk a glance. Then, as likely as not, I will detour to Neutral Bay (I used to live there) so more glimpses of the Harbour Bridge going down the road towards Luna Park.

I don't usually swim at Bondi Beach but I sometimes detour that way just to see the views. If i have been to Neilsen Park or Watsons Bay I sometimes come back via North Bondi and stop above the beach. If I am at Bronte or Clovelly, then sometimes I drive to Bondi from the south.

I suppose we all take places from granted when we live near them? I rarely went to the Isle of Wight when I lived in the New Forest but going to the beach at Lepe and Calshot was like looking over to the other side of the harbour in Sydney.

I made a rare visit to Castle Hill when i tried out the new metro line. I took it to the end in ?Talleywong? Then on the way back I got off at Castle Hill for a brief walk.

Edited January 1, 2021 by MARYROSE02

[FirstWorldProblems]

For me, getting the ferry to work was the best. The absolute best.  Sure the bus took half the time and my motorbike half again.  But it was an uplifting experience every day and no matter how crappy the day had been, I was totally unwound by the time I got home. 

[MARYROSE02]

11 hours ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

For me, getting the ferry to work was the best. The absolute best.  Sure the bus took half the time and my motorbike half again.  But it was an uplifting experience every day and no matter how crappy the day had been, I was totally unwound by the time I got home. 

Why pay over-the-top rates for tourist ferries (and buses) when you can just get on a "regular" ferry or bus?! I've done it in a few places, Fiji, London, Sydney, Brisbane, HK, just get on the first bus or train or ferry and see where it goes.

When I lived at the Royal Private Hotel, 9 Hayes Street, Neutral Bay, for a while I had a room overlooking the wharf and I could race down to get the ferry when I saw it approaching.

Edited January 3, 2021 by MARYROSE02

[Jon the Hat]

I have spent several weeks in Sydney on my own with work, and I love it, but when a job came up with my employer and they wouldn't pay enough to live comfortably as a newcomer, and not feel I moved across the world to live hours from the coast or harbour, there wasn't any point. 

[Wanderer Returns]

On 04/01/2021 at 06:45, Jon the Hat said:

I have spent several weeks in Sydney on my own with work, and I love it, but when a job came up with my employer and they wouldn't pay enough to live comfortably as a newcomer, and not feel I moved across the world to live hours from the coast or harbour, there wasn't any point. 

Good for you, and for not being sucked in by the whole 'Sydney thing'. As one of my friends so eloquently puts it, "Who the hell wants to live in a sweltering sh*tbox out west?!"

[Marisawright]

2 minutes ago, Wanderer Returns said:

Good for you, and for not being sucked in by the whole 'Sydney thing'. As one of my friends so eloquently puts it, "Who the hell wants to live in a sweltering sh*tbox out west?!"

I know a few people who do - but the whole point of moving "out west" is because you don't have to live in a sh*tbox, you can afford a nice home, with air conditioning.   You're more likely to be living in a sweltering little box if you're in the inner suburbs.   For me, the problem with living out west is that it's too far from all the things that make Sydney special for me.

[MARYROSE02]

1 hour ago, Wanderer Returns said:

Good for you, and for not being sucked in by the whole 'Sydney thing'. As one of my friends so eloquently puts it, "Who the hell wants to live in a sweltering sh*tbox out west?!"

What is this "Sydney thing?" My brother has lived here for over 40 years and rarely been any closer to the city than 25 kilometres and more than that to the beach.

[Wanderer Returns]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

I know a few people who do - but the whole point of moving "out west" is because you don't have to live in a sh*tbox, you can afford a nice home, with air conditioning.   You're more likely to be living in a sweltering little box if you're in the inner suburbs.   For me, the problem with living out west is that it's too far from all the things that make Sydney special for me.

I'm no expert on the western suburbs of Sydney, although I did go out to Blacktown for a week-long training course once and was rather glad I didn't live out there. I looked a bit grim, to be honest. I assume my friend was referring to the fact that the further west you go, the hotter it gets. I remember it being sweltering when I was there, while it was a good 5-10C cooler on the coast. 

7 minutes ago, MARYROSE02 said:

What is this "Sydney thing?" My brother has lived here for over 40 years and rarely been any closer to the city than 25 kilometres and more than that to the beach.

The 'Sydney thing' is the same as the 'London thing'. The misconception that your life will in some way be incomplete if you don't live at the epicentre of all things cool.

[Paul1Perth]

On 04/01/2021 at 04:45, Jon the Hat said:

I have spent several weeks in Sydney on my own with work, and I love it, but when a job came up with my employer and they wouldn't pay enough to live comfortably as a newcomer, and not feel I moved across the world to live hours from the coast or harbour, there wasn't any point. 

I've been over on work trips and loved it every time. Work picked up the bill for everything, booze included. Had some great weekends when it wasn't worth coming back to Perth so stayed at the hotel, no work over the weekend and had some good looks around. 

Didn't have to worry about what restaurants I ate in so had some great meals. 

In the 90's a guy came over from the head office in Sydney, obnoxious git he was, and suggested my job may move to Sydney and asked me what I'd do if that happened. I think he expected me saying I would move over, instead I said I'd find another job in Perth. 

Sydney is great but to have enough money to have the lifestyle we have here I would have needed a million dollar salary.

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, MARYROSE02 said:

What is this "Sydney thing?" My brother has lived here for over 40 years and rarely been any closer to the city than 25 kilometres and more than that to the beach.

As Wanderer says, it's the same as the "London thing".   Both are big cities which are glamorous and exciting, with a vast range of amenities and attractions.   But in both cities, you'll need a highly-paid job, or a rich family, if you want to actually live in the glamorous and exciting parts.  The average joe on an average wage will end up in the outer suburbs, a very long way away.   

That's not a problem if you're happy with an ordinary suburban lifestyle, (like your brother), BUT for most people, the whole reason they pick Sydney is to get the lifestyle they see on a postcard or on Home & Away.  Just like people pick London imagining life in Chelsea when all they're likely to afford is Dagenham.   You were lucky to buy in the inner suburbs when they weren't fashionable, but few ordinary people could afford to buy in Surry Hills these days. 

It's not saying anything negative about Sydney.  It's just acknowledging that foreigners judge the entire city by its affluent areas, and of course that's not realistic for any big city.  

The other aspect of the "Sydney thing" is that migrants seem to think they've got to pick Sydney because that's where the jobs are.  That's as silly as an Australian thinking London is the only place they can live in England, because there aren't any jobs anywhere else in the whole country.

 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Marisawright

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Wanderer Returns said:

I'm no expert on the western suburbs of Sydney, although I did go out to Blacktown for a week-long training course once and was rather glad I didn't live out there. I looked a bit grim, to be honest. I assume my friend was referring to the fact that the further west you go, the hotter it gets. I remember it being sweltering when I was there, while it was a good 5-10C cooler on the coast. 

There are some grim suburbs out west,  I must say, but there are nice ones as well, like any city.   But you're right, the further west you go, the hotter it gets, and there are no sea breezes to temper the humidity.   It just keeps getting stickier until you reach the Blue Mountains, then you can get up into the higher altitudes and cool down!    That's one of the reasons we're in Melbourne not Sydney.   I love many things about Sydney but our budget would've meant moving further west, and I am not good at coping with humid heat.  

However, like I said, one of the reasons for going west is you can get a much larger home for less money, so at least people have more spacious homes with air con, and for some people, that's attraction enough.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Marisawright